Who else misses the POP era?? (POP appreciation thread)

[Hawkfire]

...when U2 were deliberately trying to do stuff they had NEVER done before, when they were not concerned with alienating audiences, or how many teens in the 12-18 demographic gave a crap about them.

U2 wasn't about incessant marketing or making paint-by-the-numbers FM-lite rock tunes for cheesy soundtracks in 1997. Only the "true" U2 fans were interested, and people at the concerts weren't clamoring for Sunday Bloody Sunday. It was a great time, people.

POP is a flawed, but ultimately brilliant album. It will stand the test of time and ultimately prove more lasting and more influential than ATYCLB. POP is an easy bashing target for many casual U2 fans or 80s U2 fans (is there a worse kind?) But this album and the clever stadium tour that followed will be REDEEMED. Light years ahead of their time.

From Discotheque to SATS to the blistering live renditions of LNOE and Please, to the complexity of Gone and Do You Feel Loved?, the SONGS are there. Unfortunately, the odds are increasingly against U2 making another album anywhere in the same zip code as the revolutionary and ground breaking Achtung-Zooropa-POP trio.

 

[The Wanderer]

haha!!!

see, this is why many of us who love Pop get drilled by the haters of Pop because you've gone to the trouble of setting yourself on a higher plain than fans who don't like Pop

not that I disagree with you, but be prepared for a good ole bashing here lad, and it won't be pretty once staunch Pop haters like Salome, 80sBest and Scatteroflight arrive on the scene... you're fucked, there's no way around that now (p.s., if I've incorrectly identified you as a member of the male persuasion I apologize)

 

[Seconds]

So, just because I think POP is U2 weakest album, that makes me a casual fan Or a fan stuck in the 80's? That's weird since Achtung baby is what made me become a huge U2 fan, and I was too young to enjoy U2 in the 80's.

I guess I'm not a "True" U2 fan.

 

[Jayhawk]

Pop era...okay, I did like the Popmart shows and the bootlegs that came from them but I don't miss all the bad-mouthing the band got during that era. Fans and the media just got to be too much. I look back and I remember a lot of negativity at that time. I wasn't sure where the band was going, but I just look at it as a grand detour. I LOVED the Pop songs live though. I just kind of leave it at that.

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I hit an iceberg in my life
You know I'm still afloat
You lose your balance, lose your wife
In the queue for the lifeboat

--New York

 

[Flying FuManchu]

...when U2 were deliberately trying to do stuff they had NEVER done before, when they were not concerned with alienating audiences, or how many teens in the 12-18 demographic gave a crap about them.

Actually I think ATYCLB fit the first part of what you said to a degree. As for reaching out to the younger generation (teens), I thought that was one of the reasons for the creation of POP. They wanted to be relevant to the youth.

I hate the fact that both the Popmart tour and the album are being underrated by critics and some fans. POP is equal if not better then ATYCLB IMO. At least lyrically it is so much better. I hope that it ages well alah Weezer's Pinkerton.



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~ "You can't resist her. She's in your bones. She is your marrow and your ride home. You can't avoid her. She's in the air; in between molecules of oxygen and carbon dioxide." ~ RC

 

[Salome]

Originally posted by Hawkfire:
...when U2 were deliberately trying to do stuff they had NEVER done before, when they were not concerned with alienating audiences, or how many teens in the 12-18 demographic gave a crap about them.

ah yes, back when they were trying to be cool even though U2 will never be cool and concerned with alienating audiences who think they have superior musical taste like yourself

like I've posted here 2 weeks ago, 2 weeks before that and 2 weeks before that etc.:
POP was good, but nothing special in the U2 catalogue as far as I'm concerned
POPMart ruled

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Salome
Shake it, shake it, shake it

 

[zooropa16]

I DO!!!
Pop is a great album and IMHO, better than ATYCLB. However, I am more than happy to be seeing this incredible run of sucess U2 has enjoyed over the last year or so. It's like anything else in life, Everything has its moment. It's nice to remember them from time to time.

 

[Saracene]

POP... the times when an aging rock band tried to be hip and cool to the kids by hopping on a techno music bandwagon while wearing the most ridiculous costumes in the known universe and trying to force an undercooked album down the public's collective throat.

Nah, I love POP, it's just that I can't stand any smug statements of what "true fans" are supposed to be and what they're supposed to like. Doesn't it make you feel all warm and fuzzy knowing what a superior taste in music you have. And I really cannot understand why so many people feel the need to constantly put down ATYCLB in order to affirm POP's greatness; can't it just be praised on its own terms?

Ok, I think that Miami is a horrible stinker and Playboy Mansion & Velvet Dress are kinda lifeless, but Gone, Discotheque, Wake Up Dead Man, Last Night On Earth are all as good as anything U2 have written and Mofo is one of Bono's most personal songs ever. Bono's lyrics are simply superb except when he tries to be too clever on Playboy Mansion and comes off a bit cringeworthy IMO.

[This message has been edited by Saracene (edited 03-28-2002).]

 

[Autumn454]

Originally posted by Saracene:... I can't stand any smug statements of what "true fans" are supposed to be and what they're supposed to like. Doesn't it make you feel all warm and fuzzy knowing what a superior taste in music you have. And I really cannot understand why so many people feel the need to constantly put down ATYCLB in order to affirm POP's greatness; can't it just be praised on its own terms?

Yes, I agree, I am tired of seeing ATYCLB put down by the same people who 'miss Pop' too. I guess they're jealous that ATYCLB was such a bigger success with more people. I would honestly like to know, though, why is it that if you don't like Pop your are deemed not a 'true fan' yet the same people can diss ATYCLB or Oct. and remain a 'true fan?'

I am glad the Pop era is over. I disliked the sound, the look, and the general atmosphere and personality of it. I try my best to ignore it. Speaking of 'cringeworthy' that is exactly how I woud describe most of the music on that album as well as the band's image at the time. I love all of the other U2 stuff, I just skip that one. We don't all like the same things. Whatever you like or don't like, enjoy it or avoid it- it's okay!

No need to put other people down.

I was only 10 when I started loving U2 for JT, does that make me 'stuck in the 80's?' I love and enjoy AB and ATYCLB, those are not 80's albums. I just do not care for Pop. So what.

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~Burned by the fire of love~




[This message has been edited by Autumn454 (edited 03-28-2002).]

 

[Larrry]

I`m totally with you Hawkfire.

Pop is such a great album; i just put it on tape again last week, so i can listen to it while driving around in my car.

Also i think that Pop was quit bigger in Europe than ATYCLB,or at least the same, which is good because both albums are really great in their own way. Like we all know the bashing of Pop was unfortunately an US-thing, because the US just wasn`t into the same taste of music like Europe was back in 97 (Prodigy, Chem.Brothers, Oasis..).

The main thing why i prefer Pop a little to ATYCLB is that there are 12 superior, partly experimentell, and totally different sounding songs which sound as fresh to me as they were five years ago.

And all the other things like the tour and the cool videos (Discotheque, LNOE,Please) just make me look back with a big smile.

lo long, Larrry.

 

[sulawesigirl4]

I love POP.

I love ATYCLB.

I am a U2 fan regardless of the two previous statements.

 

[Larrry]

same to me Sulawesigirl4; love Pop and also ATYCLB; hope you didn`t misunderstand my message. It`s just that i miss the Pop-Era, in a few years i will sure miss the ATYCLB/Elevation-Era.

Larrry

 

[Bonochick]

Originally posted by sulawesigirl4:
I love POP.

I love ATYCLB.

I am a U2 fan regardless of the two previous statements.

Same here.



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"Hallelujah, Heaven's white rose,
The doors you open...I just can't close..."

 

[*Stormy*]

I am a true U2 fan even though I do not miss Pop. I think Hawkfire has been very unfair, and his 'appreciation thread' claim was contradicted by his post, which appears to bash anyone who didn't like Pop. As far as only the 'true fans' appreciating it, as a matter of fact some of the 'truest' fans I know hated it. That doesn't make anyone not a true fan. We are all free to like or leave any of their albums. I'm sure the band would be the first to say that. We are all fans or we wouldn't be here talking about them, right?

 

[u2utah]

Originally posted by Hawkfire:
...when U2 were deliberately trying to do stuff they had NEVER done before, when they were not concerned with alienating audiences, or how many teens in the 12-18 demographic gave a crap about them.

U2 wasn't about incessant marketing or making paint-by-the-numbers FM-lite rock tunes for cheesy soundtracks in 1997. Only the "true" U2 fans were interested, and people at the concerts weren't clamoring for Sunday Bloody Sunday. It was a great time, people.

I take it you don't like ATYCLB.

But you must not think much of U2 right now and that's kind of sad

So, let me see if I have this straight. With Pop, U2 didn't care if anyone liked them, and really only wanted "true fans" in the audience. And "true fans" are people who liked Pop. Hmmmm...

Actually those are common perceptions and actually were supported by many "Bono pronouncements" after Zooropa about how they didn't have to worry anymore about selling records, and were going to make music for themselves, and that people who didn't like AB and Zooropa weren't going to like what was coming.

Sooooo, it turns out that they didn't care until people didn't buy. Or so it might seem.....

On the surface it appears that they made an "about face" and "sold out" with ATYCLB and for awhile I was wondering about it myself. However, now that I've been reminded by folks here who were paying attention back then (Pop happened during a time that I had much more serious issues to deal with) that Pop was hyped as much if not more than ATYCLB, I think Bono's statements were just part of a strategy to prepare folks for something very different. (You can learn a lot from reading this forum)

IMO, the problem with Pop is that it wasn't Brilliant, and that's that. (and, of course, anyone and everyone is welcome to disagree with me

)

JT was Brilliant, AB was Brilliant, and both could stand up to the hype. (Zooropa was just sort of snuck in there and wasn't perceived as a "real" record so it didn't have the pressure) Pop was the next big release and did have a lot of hype, but was merely a good record not Brilliant (again IMO). It has some amazing moments and has the potential to be brilliant, but it fell short and therefore and it didn't live up to the hype. (I really don't think the clothes or hair had any major impact)

I wasn't paying a lot of attention to U2 in the mid-late 90s. Survival issues were most on my mind during that time period, but all I remember from Pop was hype, hype, hype on MTV then--Nothing. Staring at the Sun was the only song I ever heard on the radio.

(Another issue for the US is the release of Discotheque as a single. No one in the US had used that word for at least 30 years!)

 

[Zoocifer]

I miss the Edge's cowboy hat.

No, but seriously - the Pop era will always stand out in my mind for two reasons. One, it is when I "found" U2. Two, U2 seemed to be darker, alittle bit hipper, and there was more attitude in the music. It showed me that you could mix many different styles of music but still be who you are.

I remember listening to Pop for the first time in my portable cd player in Fort Myers, Florida. It was my second U2 album (Achtung was the first) and I was excited. The swirling intro of "Discotheque", the mad frenzy of "mofo", the sad soul of "if God will send his angels", the dark and simple "Miami" (I still don't know why people don't like this song), and the hopelessness of "Wake up deadman".

Then there was Popmart. I was only about 13 at the time and my dad took me. The few parts that still remain in my mind was the loud sound surrounding me. It was my first major concert and the sound was incredible. I remember Bono doing the tango with a fan during "Miami". I remember the lights going bonkers during "discotheque". I remember Bono playing guitar during "with or without you" instead of going into the crowd. I remember "hold me thrill me kiss me kill me".

Don't get me wrong, I love ATYCLB and Elevation - but Pop was the chapter that started it all for me and it will always be my favorite era. Up with the sun, and not coming down.

~z~

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" You love this town - even if that doesn't ring true. You've been all over, and it's been all over you " - Bono

" Don't you know there ain't no Devil, that's just God when he's drunk " - Tom Waits

 

[joyfulgirl]

sick of anything making reference to a "true" U2 fan

 

[Flying FuManchu]

I thought the stage setup and design was brilliant although it would have been much better if the video images used during some songs was better. If you were in a stadium audience in the back, who wouldn't want a bigger screen.

I think "Velvet Dress..." is a great song although its too quiet in some parts thus annoying to listen to. "Playboy Mansion" makes me laugh. Not best song, but defintely a good song.

POP is better then ATYCLB in some aspects but thats my opinion.

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~ "You can't resist her. She's in your bones. She is your marrow and your ride home. You can't avoid her. She's in the air; in between molecules of oxygen and carbon dioxide." ~ RC

 

[Zoocifer]

I still don't get why "Miami" is bashed by most fans. If you really go in deep - the song structure of "Miami" and "New York" is very similar.

Drum loop. Same type of lyrics. Booming guitar parts.

I'm off subject now but my point is that "miami" is not a bad song. In fact I think of it as one of U2's "cooler" songs. It's tongue in cheek and fun.

~z~

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" You love this town - even if that doesn't ring true. You've been all over, and it's been all over you " - Bono

" Don't you know there ain't no Devil, that's just God when he's drunk " - Tom Waits

 

[80sU2isBest]

Originally posted by *Stormy*:
I am a true U2 fan even though I do not miss Pop. I think Hawkfire has been very unfair, and his 'appreciation thread' claim was contradicted by his post, which appears to bash anyone who didn't like Pop. As far as only the 'true fans' appreciating it, as a matter of fact some of the 'truest' fans I know hated it. That doesn't make anyone not a true fan. We are all free to like or leave any of their albums. I'm sure the band would be the first to say that. We are all fans or we wouldn't be here talking about them, right?

True true true. Everyone knows that Pop is the U2 album I don't like. However, I would never claim that someone who likes it and doesn't liek October (my fave) isn't a true fan. That would be ridiculous. And you know what? "Stuck In The 80s" is a compliment to me. 88% of my favorite bands were popular in the 80s.

 

[elevatedmole]

Originally posted by Zoocifer:
I still don't get why "Miami" is bashed by most fans. If you really go in deep - the song structure of "Miami" and "New York" is very similar.

Drum loop. Same type of lyrics. Booming guitar parts.

I'm off subject now but my point is that "miami" is not a bad song. In fact I think of it as one of U2's "cooler" songs. It's tongue in cheek and fun.

~z~

I don't understand the hatred against Miami, either, Zoocifer. I absolutely hated Pop on my first listen, almost a year ago. I listened to it once, didn't like it, but I forced myself to not pay attention to the lyrics or much of the music and just kind of let it play and see if it clicked. It took 2 listens to make me realize that I liked Wake Up Dead Man and it was a very catchy song (

I don't get that either, now, lol.) I put Pop away to listen to other albums, but kept pulling it out again to listen to Wake Up Dead Man. I eventually stopped pushing the stop button on Winamp after it was on and let the whole album play... and let it sink in. My first 2 favourites after Wake Up Dead Man were the Playboy Mansion (which I still love and adore) and Miami. I don't love Miami as much as I used to, but I do not hate it at all.

Which makes me bring up another point entirely.

I love Pop, and I understand there is a group of people who will just never like it because it isn't their style or whatever. However, my experience with Pop shows I needed to listen to it more than once or twice or even 5 times to finally let it click. That's why I think most people need to just listen to it more than they want to -- to get it going and get hooked on a song, then get hooked on another.. and so on.

But like I said, I know there ARE people who will never like Pop.

Anyway, I will never understand why people don't like the Playboy Mansion or Miami, or Pop entirely. And I know, I got completely off-course.

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"You must not look down on someone just 'cos they are 14 years old. When I was that age I listened to the music of John Lennon and it changed my way of seeing things, so I'm just glad that 14 year olds are coming to see U2 rather than group X." - Bono, 1988

 

[MrPryck2U]

Ahh, the old "POP is a misunderstood, underappreciated album" debate. Haven't we been down this road before?
First off, POP is one of my favorite U2 albums. They are many great songs on it with only a few unmentioned skippers. We all know the story about the making, the release, the promotion and the commotion regarding the album, so I won't go over it again ad nauseum.(If you don't know, then ask someone else.)
Quite frankly, I don't miss the POP era at all. It had its time and place and it should stay there. My memories of that era are awesome, but I wouldn't want to go back or repeat anything. The Boys were needlessly slagged by the critics and the old-school fans and got fucked in the ass for it. I found myself constantly defending U2 because they had the balls to laugh at themselves, Rock and Roll and Western Civilization. Without POP though, we wouldn't have had ATYCLB; the album that brought all the fuckwads back onto the "U2 is great bandwagon". Meanwhile, I was there all along.
Now that the ATYCLB era is over, it'll be interesting to see what U2 comes up with next. I certainly won't hazard a guess. I trust, though, that whatever they release, I'll gobble it up like Reese's Peanut Butter Cups.

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The goal is ELEVATION!

 

[Hawkfire]

Just to point out, some posters have accused me of trying to define who is or isn't a "real" fan and attempting to marginalize those who don't appreciate POP. In fact, if you reread my email, I simply stated that those who like POP are real fans (ie not along for a bandwagon ride or one or two big radio hits). I was implying that anyone who likes POP and appreciates its significance in the U2 cannon IS a "real" fan. That does NOT mean that anyone who doesn't like it isn't a fan...I'm not here to make that distinction. In other words, rest assured you can dislike POP and still be a U2 fan in my book. The two are not mutually exclusive.

I'll admit Playboy Mansion would probably be in my least favorite 10 songs by U2. And although many rave over Wake Up Dead Man, I find it boring and slow. But given the flack this album gets in the US, and the coldness that greeted the PopMart tour, the work done by U2 in this time period is too brilliant not to defend. And, as I stated before, POP will stand the test of time and have an enduring legacy, and that will vindicate the album more than anything.

 

[Desire4Bono]

Originally posted by new orleans:

The tour of POP sucked because to me it wasn't U2. U2 is about the music and with POP the stage took over the music. And seeing U2 dressed up in those asinine costumes coming out of that stupid space ship/lemon was too much. To me it did not even look like U2 was into it or giving it their all while performing. The ATYCLB tour is the U2 I know. Giving 110% throughout the show. It was good to have them back.

Thanks for saying that. Now I don't have to.

 

[bullet the blue sky]

I think the reason everyone gets to uptight about POP is that it is U2's most radical album... and whether you like it or not almost always says a tremendous amount about your own musical tastes and, by definition, your own personality and way of thinking.

The triumvirate of Zooropa-Passengers-POP is U2's most interesting phase, immaterial of whether you enjoy it or not. If you put those songs on, you will always find something else in there, whether it be a noise here or a rhythm there that you hadn't noticed before. By definition then, POP was never going to be a radio-friendly album (like, dare I say ATYCLB and to some degree Rattle and Hum) because it took too much EFFORT to listen to the songs properly.

POP was more of a 'vibe' record than a 'melody' record. It was based on beats and rhythms for the most part. As one review I read said "it sounds great, but where are the tunes?" - but again, that goes back to making an effort with music. Not all songs are ready-made hits. Take Please for example - on first listen, who'd have thought that would be such a favourite with the fans?

As for POPMart itself, by the time it came to Europe it had finally found its feet, but the first American leg was rather disappointing. And, again, whether you like it or not, the reason POP and POPMart were more successful outside America was that America was not ready for that type of music.

Actually, POPMart was a lot simpler than ZOO TV. Okay, so they emerged from a lemon from the encore. But other than that, what else was there? A big television screen. That was it. The band's outfits were a lot better than on the Elevation tour, too!

With ATYCLB U2 have gone from one extreme to the other. I'm not saying it is a 'safe' album - if you listen to Beautiful Day carefully, it's actually quite a complex song! - but it would be a shame if the adverse reaction to POP would end U2's sense of adventure. Because without that, you would never have had The Joshua Tree and The Unforgettable Fire, never mind POP.

In summary, I hope the next album is more Discotheque than Stuck In A Moment.

 

[Discoteque]

I miss it even thought I missed it....it will always be my favorite U2 era and Pop will always be my favorite U2 album. Love the clothes, love the whole 'look,' love the music, the experimentation, love the 'over the topness' of the tour, love the way they never took themselves seriously. It was just *fun.*

 

[Hawkmoon1021]

I love POP top to bottom, but I wouldn't want them to revisit that period again. I doubt they ever will. I think they know the risk is too great. That's why POP is even more special to me, because know it will never happen again. It is unique to their career. I don't think they will ever stray so far from their trademark sound again. I hope they continue to experiment, but more in the style of Stateless, Beautiful Day & In A Little While.

 

[popsadie]

Pop was my introduction to U2 and it will always hold a special place in heart and music collection, but that being said, I love the life outlook that ATYCLB has. I don't see U2 doing another pop because that doesn't seem to be where the main lyricist is at spiritually and emotionally. One thing I really love about following U2's music is the way they seem to go through intellectual, emotional and spiritual changes...and often the music seems to reflect where the band is at in their lives. The AB triology had a pessimistic, the world is messed up..are there really any books left to read..psuedo postmodern vibe to it, and I don't think this is where the band is at anymore.

 

[wildhoney22]

Originally posted by Zoocifer:
I still don't get why "Miami" is bashed by most fans. If you really go in deep - the song structure of "Miami" and "New York" is very similar.

Drum loop. Same type of lyrics. Booming guitar parts.

~z~

Definitely... it is one of my favorite songs, and just like New York, it starts off quietly, then crashes into drums and guitar... and both are about cities... coincidence?

Anyways, I love POP, I always will, but this has been argued to death, and it will be argued for as long as people remember U2... was POP a landmark album, fresh and innovative, a testament to the band's development and removal from the mainstream... or proof that the band had lost it?

People are going to argue the quality of every album a band or artist makes, but POP seems to be the most debated, only because it divided so many fans among lovers and haters of the album. But people argue about Boy, October, War, UF, JT, Rattle & Hum, AB, Zooropa, and ATYCLB as well...

But a U2 fan is no less of a fan because they do not prefer a certain album... for me, it was one of those albums that had to grow on me, and I fell in love with it slowly, more and more each time I played it... and I would love to revisit each era of U2,including the ones I never got to love through, so of course POP will be on my list. I didn't quite understand the whole POP era and their scheme when I was living through it and only now am I beginning to realize what they meant by all of it, so I would like to go back and see it all again...

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~*~?~*~ Katie ~*~?~*~
"Leaving just in time, stay there for a while... Rolling in the ocean, trying to catch her eye..."

She is the dreamer, she's imagination

"If you give me half a chance I'll prove this to you
I will be patient, kind, faithful and true
To a man who loves music, a man who loves art
Respects the spirit world and thinks with his heart"

 

[Flying FuManchu]

I love POP but I have fears that it won't stand the test of time... the American media bashes it a lot and look at Zooropa... well received but now just a side note in the band's history... I hope POP gets better press b/c it was truly tops lyrically, conceptually, and sonically.

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~ "You can't resist her. She's in your bones. She is your marrow and your ride home. You can't avoid her. She's in the air; in between molecules of oxygen and carbon dioxide." ~ RC