U2: Showmanship or Musicality?

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jick

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I just watched the Rush In Rio DVD. 40,000 screaming Brazilians singing to a non-single instrumental Rush song - that sure is something. All of them were singing to Rush's songs. But Rush is an opposite to U2 in many ways. Their concerts usually concentrate on being note-perfect and they have no long winding speeches (like Bono does). Rush also plays all their sounds onstage (despite being a 3-man band, Geddy Lee plays bass, bass pedals and synths onstage).

Bono on the other hand is the consumate showman. He runs around the stage (Streets), he gives long winding speeches to egg on the crowd ("this is our tribe!"), or sings snippets of songs of artists from the city they are playing on just to work out the crowd (REM snippets). Meanwhile, U2 is not note perfect. The Slane DVD reveals Adam and Larry bothcing their entry to Angel Of Harlem, or Edge hitting the wrong chord in Staring At The Sun. Even in the Popmart Mexico, Edge hits a sour note in I Still Haven't Found, and Bono sings way off key in his La Bamba bit in Desire. The other issue with U2 is that there are musicians backstage playing instruments (some keyboards to In A Little While, guitars during Edge's solo in Love Is Blindness) or some pre-programmed sounds not actually played live (intro to Streets, sequencer in Bad, drum loop in New York and Beautiful Day).

Sure, U2 puts on a great show. They are great showmen, but do they have to do this at the expense of musical integrity? Where's the integrity when the songs have essential sounds and harmonies not actually played onstage by the U2 members (like the wailing sound of Gone)? Is the tradeoff too big? Can't U2 add a little musical integrity to their set? I mean if Rush can do it and still get 40,000 people get into it (and sing to their unpopular non radio-friendly songs), why can't U2? Why does U2 resort to showmanship tactics to work out the crowd and not rely on musicality?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying U2 isn't capable of musicality. Check out their UABRS video where everything was played by them onstage, they were a tight band, and there were not too many long speeches to entice the crowd. U2 still put on hell of a show.

Cheers,

J
 
My brother got that Rush DVD for Christmas. He's a huge fan. Fortunately he waited until after everyone else went to bed to play it, so I didn't have to kill him. :wink:

Give me U2 any day, even if every note isn't perfect. At least Bono doesn't sound like a Chihuahua being tortured when he sings.
 
I'm a visual person, I need to be entertained as well as musically pleased. So I pick U2's showmanship.
 
Who cares if they hit wrong notes? Unless you're Jick, you probably don't notice anyway. I sure never knew of any wrong notes until Jick posted about them, and I still don't notice them.
 
As a Rush fan and U2 fan and someone who is looking for a good reason to procrastinate for 5 minutes I'll bite at this one!!

Most of what J says about Rush is true - although they do use loops, most are triggered by one of the members in the band. However, they do have pre-recorded background vocals I believe. They are amazing musicians and each member is more proficient in terms of technical playing than any member of U2 (Bono is a better singer though - Geddy's voice can be trying at times! :)

Anyway - I think this is what is wonderful about music - there are so many different approaches to writing songs, recording songs and ultimately PERFORMING songs which is what we are talking about here.

A few weeks back I watched the new Peter Gabriel DVD and Bruce Springsteen DVD. Both shows are totally different in approach.

Bruce is the ultimate energetic showman, while Gabriel may be the ultimate artistic showman. Bruce's stage show is very simple while Peter Gabriel's is extremely intricate and artistic....

I would say U2 falls in between these two ends of the spectrum and does it very well. Their shows are full of energy, yet they also have a great approach to their set design, light show, projections screens etc...

Do I wish U2 was a tighter band? Of course. They are sloppy at times - but nobody is perfect

I have seen Rush 3 times and U2 3 times and I would rather see U2 even though Rush is a tighter band. If I want to listen to the album note for note I will stay at home and crank Moving pictures. I love U2's live versions of songs much more than their studio versions (especially Gone and Walk On) so thank goodness they don't play songs note for note

To prove I am not a blind U2 follower I would rather see Bruce live than U2!! :) Larry Mullen's Pop Angel come to my rescue if they start to flame me
:wink:

Bruce Rules!

Cheers.

Brady
 
jick said:
The other issue with U2 is that there are musicians backstage playing instruments (some keyboards to In A Little While, guitars during Edge's solo in Love Is Blindness) or some pre-programmed sounds not actually played live (intro to Streets, sequencer in Bad, drum loop in New York and Beautiful Day).

I don't mind pre-programmed sounds, but they seriously have nameless people backstage playing intruments? Oh, man, that's lame! I can't believe that.
 
jick said:

Bono on the other hand is the consumate showman. He runs around the stage (Streets), he gives long winding speeches to egg on the crowd ("this is our tribe!")

um, Jick "this is our tribe!" is probably not the best example of a "long winding speech", besides, it was true, and at least Bono has the brains to acknowledge and relate to the audience every now and then.

Meanwhile, U2 is not note perfect. The Slane DVD reveals Adam and Larry bothcing their entry to Angel Of Harlem, or Edge hitting the wrong chord in Staring At The Sun. Even in the Popmart Mexico, Edge hits a sour note in I Still Haven't Found, and Bono sings way off key in his La Bamba bit in Desire.

wait, oh my god, you mean Bono's NOT PERFECT?!?!?! :faints: ........ :rolleyes: whatever, man. I have better things to do with my time than pick out each instance that Bono's sang the wrong note, or someone came in at the wrong time, etc.
 
Re: Re: U2: Showmanship or Musicality?

Homerpalooza said:


I don't mind pre-programmed sounds, but they seriously have nameless people backstage playing intruments? Oh, man, that's lame! I can't believe that.

Yeah, it's crappy for those unnamed performers who dont get the credit. But as it is, they're not exactly playing anything incredible or musically challenging. Plus, U2 are not the first to do this. Van Halen used to... and I think the Stones do. And if you check out The Who's "The Kid's Are Alright" DVD and you'll see the same thing during their concerts.
 
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Edge launches keys and sequencers w/ his foot trigger. The underground techs may play a piano or guitar chord, but nothing major.
 
bradyvox said:
As a Rush fan and U2 fan and someone who is looking for a good reason to procrastinate for 5 minutes I'll bite at this one!!



BWAHAAAAHAAAAA!!!

I knew you'd be in on this one! :laugh: :wave:
 
jick said:
I just watched the Rush In Rio DVD. 40,000 screaming Brazilians singing to a non-single instrumental Rush song - that sure is something.



:hmm:


How does one sing along to an instrumental?
 
Meanwhile, U2 is not note perfect. The Slane DVD reveals Adam and Larry bothcing their entry to Angel Of Harlem, or Edge hitting the wrong chord in Staring At The Sun. Even in the Popmart Mexico, Edge hits a sour note in I Still Haven't Found, and Bono sings way off key in his La Bamba bit in Desire. [/B][/QUOTE]


Wow it's like their human or something. Everyone makes mistakes. It's not like they haven't had a flawless show before. U2 is the greatest band, live and in studio.
 
Showmanship can make up for lack of musicality, but not vice versa. I notice that listening to a Poison CD just the other day and I tried to explain this to somebody. They weren't good musicians, but their stage antics and their flashy videos really made the songs back in the day. It was part of the package, part of the show. They aren't as good without the visuals. On the other hand, DMB may have good musicality, but they are dull and boring. This has nothing to do with U2, just an observation. But I do love the way Bono plays the crowd:love:
 
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jick said:
he gives long winding speeches to egg on the crowd ("this is our tribe!")
Four words? How is this long-winded? Have you ever heard a long-winded speach from Bono? The man can go on forever...four words is nothing! :lol:
Originally posted by jick
Meanwhile, U2 is not note perfect. The Slane DVD reveals Adam and Larry bothcing their entry to Angel Of Harlem, or Edge hitting the wrong chord in Staring At The Sun. Even in the Popmart Mexico, Edge hits a sour note in I Still Haven't Found, and Bono sings way off key in his La Bamba bit in Desire.
This is one reason why I love them. They released a warts-and-all DVD for anyone, fan or otherwise, to watch. Bono gets hit by toilet paper- leave it. Adam and Larry have problems with AOH- leave it. Edge hits a completely wrong chord in SATS- leave it. For the Boston DVD they ironed out some bad notes and skipped over Bono yelling at an audience member with a laser pointer, but they still showed Edge beating up his guitar. they are one of the best-known bands in the world, but they are willing to show themselves screw up.

As for musical integrity, some of the "showmanship" tactics include the songs signatures. What would Gone, Bad, or UTEOTW be like without their introductions? I don't particularly care if the first few seconds of a song aren't played live; the next 5 minutes will be incredible.
 
Re: Re: U2: Showmanship or Musicality?

Bono's American Wife said:




:hmm:


How does one sing along to an instrumental?

Humming and screaming to the melody. It was quite surprising the Brazlinians knew it but it was a sight to behold.

Cheers,

J
 
Re: Re: U2: Showmanship or Musicality?

Schmeg said:

Four words? How is this long-winded? Have you ever heard a long-winded speach from Bono? The man can go on forever...four words is nothing! :lol:


Four words? Apparantly your probably don't have the DVD. It was a much longer speech then "this is our tribe" (that was only the punchline). Bono was just rambling on and on without really saying anything significant. He said this during Out of Control. He also had a long winding speech ("fuck the revolution") in the R&H version of Sunday Bloody Sunday. Bono sure makes long pointless speeches but at least he delivers with short catchy punchlines ("Fuck the revolution", "this is out tribe") that just begs for the crowd to scream and react.

Cheers,

J
 
Re: Re: Re: U2: Showmanship or Musicality?

jick said:


Four words? Apparantly your probably don't have the DVD. It was a much longer speech then "this is our tribe" (that was only the punchline). Bono was just rambling on and on without really saying anything significant. He said this during Out of Control. He also had a long winding speech ("fuck the revolution") in the R&H version of Sunday Bloody Sunday. Bono sure makes long pointless speeches but at least he delivers with short catchy punchlines ("Fuck the revolution", "this is out tribe") that just begs for the crowd to scream and react.

Cheers,

J
Oh, I have it, I thought you just meant those four words were long-winded. I thought that was funny.

As for the rest...*screams and rects*
 
Showmanship and Soul will win my vote every single time! There are no other bands that I even care to see live much less see mutiple times on each tour.
I was 24 when I went to my first U2 concert, I had seen dozens of other bands (including Rush) before that, since October 2, 1989 - I have seen U2 seventeen times and I can count on one hand other concerts that I've been to.
Once you've felt that soul or God walking through the arena, you don't even want to bother with any other concerts. Or at least I don't.
 
Re: Re: U2: Showmanship or Musicality?

Homerpalooza said:


I don't mind pre-programmed sounds, but they seriously have nameless people backstage playing intruments? Oh, man, that's lame! I can't believe that.
Edge can't play 2 guitars at once you know. And Bono can't play one.
 
Re: Re: Re: U2: Showmanship or Musicality?

jick said:


Four words? Apparantly your probably don't have the DVD. It was a much longer speech then "this is our tribe" (that was only the punchline). Bono was just rambling on and on without really saying anything significant. He said this during Out of Control. He also had a long winding speech ("fuck the revolution") in the R&H version of Sunday Bloody Sunday. Bono sure makes long pointless speeches but at least he delivers with short catchy punchlines ("Fuck the revolution", "this is out tribe") that just begs for the crowd to scream and react.

Making a passionate speech about an international affair that involved a bomb and people dying is not pointless! Bono's speech during Out of Control was entertaining, at least to me, and my mom liked it, she actually learned something about the band. It puts the song into context.

So I guess Jick's idea of a perfect rockstar is someone who sits still on stage and says nothing EVER to the crowd, NEVER comments on any affair that might be of interest to the crowd or give them an idea of what said artist believes in...someone who NEVER plays/sings a wrong note or comes in slightly off......

Good Lord! if this is what I wanted I'd buy a pet rock!
 
The fact that U2 mess up, and the fact that Bono talks to the crowd gives off the impression that they're human and that their live shows are more organic and natural rather than feeling mechanical and too predictable. I'd rather a band try to sound totally different live, rather than just trying to reproduce their CDs live note for note. Often, U2 songs took on a whole different direction and sounded way better live than their album versions, songs like Bad for example.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: U2: Showmanship or Musicality?

LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:


Making a passionate speech about an international affair that involved a bomb and people dying is not pointless! Bono's speech during Out of Control was entertaining, at least to me, and my mom liked it, she actually learned something about the band. It puts the song into context.

So I guess Jick's idea of a perfect rockstar is someone who sits still on stage and says nothing EVER to the crowd, NEVER comments on any affair that might be of interest to the crowd or give them an idea of what said artist believes in...someone who NEVER plays/sings a wrong note or comes in slightly off......

Good Lord! if this is what I wanted I'd buy a pet rock!

:applaud:
 
bradyvox said:

Do I wish U2 was a tighter band? Of course. They are sloppy at times - but nobody is perfect

I have to disagree at least studio wise. Their tight sound in the studio is one of the reason why I like U2. Even live they sound solid IMO.
 
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Re: Re: U2: Showmanship or Musicality?

nick_u2 said:
The Slane DVD reveals Adam and Larry bothcing their entry to Angel Of Harlem

One of my favorite parts! :lol:

:adam::heart::larry:
 
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