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Old 04-12-2002, 07:30 PM   #21
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Thats donkey crap that the USA is murdering innocent civilians. The USA has no interest in murdering innocent civilians, only bringing justice to those that commit terror and TARGET innocent civilians to be murdered. The USA's actions in this war are completely justified and have saved perhaps millions of lives. It is unfortunate that some civilians have been accidently killed, but they were not the target.
I fully support the courages men and women of the US military who continue to sacrifice so much to defend the lives and freedom of so many people around the world! God Bless them all!
Oh, and BONO supported US military action in both Bosnia(1995) and Kosovo 1999. He only had disagreements with US policy on a few particular issues in the 1980s. He is not, nor has he ever been a pacifist. In reality there are so many issues on which is position is not known, that it is actually difficult to gauge where he is politically.
New York is a great song musically and I would take that as well as KITE over Mysterious Ways and the Pumpkins song. Its not just about lyrics, and often what is simple is better than complexity. There is much more soul and Passion in KITE than Mysterious Ways. I don't know how you could call Mysterious Ways Rock when it was the most radio friendly song from Acthung Baby. So no, I don't see how your example supports your conclusion.
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Old 04-13-2002, 04:59 AM   #22
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I agree that another album like POP would be a commercial suicide, but I also think that even if POP was in fact successful U2 would change their style anyway. I think that with POP they've completely exhausted their 90s direction and they just wouldn't be able to take the entire irony thing any further, just like they couldn't take their 80s earnestness any further back in the early 90s. They've been experimenting with electronic sounds for a decade, which IMO is more than enough time to get bored with it all.

I also agree that ATYCLB is much "poppier" than anything U2 have done in the past, but IMO it's the Rubber Soul kind of pop, the elegantly constructed "grown up" pop that has nothing to do with the disposable soulless bubble gum music that gives pop a bad name. I remember reading an article just before the release of ATYCLB which noted that the U2 camp must be nervous to see The Wallflowers sell only 10,000 copies of their latest album in the first week. Which is not to say that The Wallflowers are anywhere near U2, but the writer simply used them as an example to say that there is very little public hunger for the "serious" artists with melodic, grown-up music. So IMO there was no 100% guarantee that ATYCLB would be a success it turned out to be. And another thing is, U2 are as hungry for the critical success as they are for commercial, and with ATYCLB they ran a -huge- risk with being lambasted for being too soft, too unadventurous, too middle-aged, too uninventive, so taking this sort of direction with -no- attempts at being cool or cutting edge was very much a gamble.
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Old 04-13-2002, 01:42 PM   #23
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They (like any other band) want to make GOOD music, and at the same time, make a record that will sell GOOD. (also, getting a new fanbase etc...)
Biggest and best band in the world.

Those things (as proven often earlier) aren't necessary excluding each other.

IMO, Pop was too much at a time: it wanted to be rock/dance influenced/experimental.

True, ATYCLB at some points is more radio-friendly/pop oriented than any other U2 album, but then again...if you think about it - U2 can not and never will be mainstream.
1) just for the sake of being in their 40ies
2) their sound and lyrics are too far away from mainstream

Having said that, i think the fact that a band (having been around for 20+years, and outaging the mainstream groups by a lot) can still do this good commercially (and remaining relevant with their messages), is very praisworthy.
That may be the biggest "f--- up" of the mainstream possible. You know?
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Old 04-13-2002, 09:14 PM   #24
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Um, I can't see how anyone can say that U2 are not mainstream. They've sold gazillions of records, they're played on the commercial radio, and it's not even as if they were ever reluctant stars who didn't want to be popular. One of the reasons why Zooropa is regarded as risky is precisely because it was a mainstream band who made it. And if U2 aren't mainstream, what does this make Fugazi or Ani DiFranco?
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Old 04-13-2002, 10:14 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by achtung2k:
Is there an audio transcript of this thread?
lol. Yeah, I skimmed most of it.



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Old 04-14-2002, 02:05 AM   #26
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Bono has always said that he has loved America..and I know he has agreed with them more than been critical of them....

No matter which direction U2 goes they will lose and or gain fans...."Behind" was different for them because they hadn't made an album like this EVER!....It sounds like nothing they have ever done, (add usual BS statement here)....

....and if they make money, then cool...and why not?.....if you are great at something why not cash in....bono has 4 kids to put through school! and oh, I think U2 has sold themselves out after every album since JT.

[This message has been edited by Swan269 (edited 04-14-2002).]
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Old 04-14-2002, 02:10 AM   #27
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They don't call it an 'industry' for nothing.

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Old 04-14-2002, 02:13 AM   #28
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Is there an audio transcript of this thread?
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Old 04-14-2002, 02:14 AM   #29
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Achtung Baby is the most pop sounding/influenced album they ever put out. Bono went on record in interviews during that time, saying that these were tunes you could listen to in your car, and not be embarrassed to as well.

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Old 04-14-2002, 05:20 AM   #30
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Hmm, each of those artists that you mentioned I really really like (REM, Alanis, and Sheryl Crow). I don't really think it is an intentional thing with some of these artists but more or less where they are as adults, musically. When I was 22, Reveal would have bored me to tears as would have ATYCLB. But as a 30 something (Oh God 35 in June) year old these are the artists that make the sound that is now music to my ears. I don't care for the noise and wailing that is the sound of what bands most 20somethings consider "art" and "non-pop" these days(except maybe really cool ones like The Strokes). To me, the artists you named are equivalent with musical and human maturity. I am now at an age where the sound these artists (U2 included) is what I consider art and music.

Oh yeah and U2 didn't bid for the SuperBowl, the NFL asked THEM. I am not sure if that was the same deal with the NBA finals but I know friends who were perplexed that people thought U2 and basketball somehow went together.

The Target thing, that was weird...the DVD thing, the War tour had Under A Blood Red Sky, Joshua Tree had Rattle and Hum, Achtung Baby had the ZOO TV in Sydney video and Pop had PopMart in Mexico. None of this is new with U2, not really. You guys are just young and bored enough to sit around and analyze it. Back in 1983, we didnt say "Oh, they are releasing the video to cash in". We the fans took it for what it meant to us, a video capture of what is undoubtedly U2's strongest point, their AWESOME live performances.

So once again, to your questions, a loud and repeating:

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO , I don't think that art is being sacrificed for commercial success. Unless youre talking about Britney or NSYNC.

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