U2.com Presale Blunder / Fan Boycott: Cause For HTDAAB's Billboard Chart Freefall?

[biff]

Massive drop? Chart freefall? This week's Hits Daily Double Sales Chart shows HTDAAB with a 1% sales drop from last week. Yeah, that's really massive! So much for that theory.
Jick, you just want them to fail, don't you?

 

[plot180]

That people even listen to J is beyond me. He will say whatever there is to be critical about regarding U2, not even caring if it contradicts what he said badmouthing them last week. He's the only poster I've ever come across where I can identify a post of his just by the title. I didn't even have to read who posted it, I just knew by the subject header it was him. It boggles the mind that people still listen to him.

 

[Flying FuManchu]

IMO the album has dropped quite a bit, for a "hit" record. How will the tour interest the casual fan in the US when the dedicated fan can't even get tickets to this year's U2 concert (or had the most difficult time getting tickets. LOL.

I agree with Shade's assessment except for the part about Man and a Woman. IMO a song like A Man and Woman would have just as much impact as ABOY for similar reasons why ABOY isn't huge now.

I think Original of the Species would be an interesting release for the spring/ fall. Try to take advantage of the Butterfly Kisses vibe or the fall vibe to push the song.

I also don't think SYCMIOYO will make that big of an impact for some reason. But I could be wrong on that... it could be U2's next One/ Stay.

 

[ladywithspinninghead]

Massive drop? Chart freefall? This week's Hits Daily Double Sales Chart shows HTDAAB with a 1% sales drop from last week. Yeah, that's really massive! So much for that theory.
Jick, you just want them to fail, don't you?

Yes, in addition to this, the drop from no. 13 to no. 22 (the "freefall" he quotes) occurred the week before the pre-sale so there's no correlation whatsoever.

 

[jick]

When the tour starts the album will pop back up the charts...that's inevitable and I'm not worried about it.

I don't think so. Tickets have sold out faster than anything because U2 only have 16 shows - and all of them arenas. So few people will actually go to the shows - and since the tickets are all sold out then most of the concert goers will be getting their tickets at scalping ebay prices of $500. If they can afford $500 for U2, they probably already have the cd by now anyway. The tour will have little impact if any.

Cheers,

J

 

[jick]

The album is falling on the charts now because all the momentum the album picked up from "Vertigo" is now waning - and it won't be regained until U2 does something big (like appearing on the Grammies) or until ABoY becomes a bigger hit. "Vertigo" was a great first single and it did a spectacular job (along with the iPod commercials) in garnering attention (and subsequent sales) for HTDAAB. However, there's been a lull. "All Because of You" is just now climbing up the charts. People are just starting to really hear it on the radio. Correspondingly, "Vertigo" is now falling. As such, the interest in the album has faded a bit. However, once the new single increases in airplay and/or the TV appearance occurs, the interest in the album will increase.

Your point about illegal downloading has some validity. Most of us in the charts forum have noticed a rather large decrease in sales across the board (i.e., for all albums - not just U2) when compared to 2001. This is most likely due to illegal downloads or people buying select songs, but not the entire album, from iTunes (or other legal downloading systems). On iTunes, buying "Vertigo" is great, but it does not help HTDAAB in terms of sales.

In other words, it's a different market, so we can't really compare 2000/2001 sales to now, sadly. We have to compare HTDAAB to other albums and for now, it's holding its own. The next few weeks/months will probably say how truly successful this album will be in the long run.

I think radio has little relevance nowadays, so it is of no consequence if ABOY picks up in the radio. Moreoever, they aren't picking up in top 40 radio -only in the niche markets of modern rock which really doesn't have that strong a buyer-base.

You are correct in saying the waning of Vertigo also has to do with the drop. But the drop is so dramatic - I'm sure much more than your expected and you were even hopeful for a return to the top ten after it climbed up to #12. But it has gone down much more than anyone could have forecasted (except me, as I have always forecasted this album's staying power to be less than ATYCLB), so it is alarming. The only plausible explanation is the presale mess.

Cheers,

J

 

[jick]

let's not neglect the fact that HTDAAB sold more than 800k in it's first week.... double it's highest opening week tally...... so to me this 'freefall' is inevitable..... and no cause for alarm...

the tour should see a pickup in sales.... but all because of you is the wrong choice for single#2 so that won't help sales.....

maybe the grammies or a big third US single ( Miracle Drug/COBL) will help boost sales.....

I've already commented how the tour won't help the album. Now let's discuss the other points:

The freefall was not inevitable. Eminem had a strong debut and continues to stay strong. Green Day is still lingering in the charts. There is no question that sales are bound to drop and rankings to go down. But something is on here when the drop and the fall is so dramatic. Dropping from 14 to 22 in a week, and this week out of the top 30 (the exact ranking not yet available as of presstime, but most likely between 32 to 36). You just don't drop 20 places in a two week span - I don't think U2 has ever had such an album drop like that (save for POP of course).

I agree with your assertion that All Because Of You will help sales.

I disagree about the Grammies though. They are nominated in non-consequential and non-televised categories and chances are they will lose to Green Day anyway.

So I still stand by my theory that the presale fiasco had something to do with all this.

Cheers,

J

 

[jick]

like anyone who paid 40 bucks for a friggin u2.com membership didn't already have the CD to begin with.

Some of our fellow U2 fans have less in life. $40 is big bucks for them. And since they already have illegal mp3's of the album, they held off actual album purchase to prioritize the website membership to spend for show tickets - some even planning multiple shows. Once the membership turned into a sham and they couldn't get tickets to the shows, they were so pissed that the extra cash they saved in not being able to get tickets was not used to buy the cd. Instead, they decided to boycott the album. So I'd like to think that many of those who paid $40 don't actually have the cd to begin with.

Cheers,

J

 

[jick]

The problem is that ABOY is just a weak single. The album is great, but there isn't a whole lot of stuff on it that really stands out as radio-friendly material. ABOY is a fun-but-claustrophobic rocker that doesn't really hold up when compared to U2's big singles. And, I don't think Sometimes is going to produce better results. It's a beautiful song, but it's not gonna get non-album-owners excited enough to go buy the album.

They would have been better served by releasing something like Miracle Drug as the second single. (City Of Blinding Lights would be a good single, but you can't edit that song to 4 minutes and maintain its structure.) Its driving beat, uplifting chorus and soaring climax are classic U2. It's catchier than ABOY, and it also has a particularly memorable line in "freedom has a scent like the top of a newborn baby's head". It would probably inspire a lot of listeners to stop and wonder "what the fuck?" but, that's the point. You need to get their attention.

And, the song's themes are easier to apply to the average person's life. I don't know anybody who can relate to Bono's ruminations on fame, and that's what ABOY is about. Outside of U2 fans, who really cares what Bono's life is like? But, I can tell you this - everybody knows somebody who has or will get cancer, or AIDS, or some other horrible disease or disability that nobody seems to be doing anything about. For Christ's sake, look at the controversy over stem cell research - this song, whether you like it or not, is MADE for these times. Come up with a beautifully shot video that conveys the hopeful feeling of Miracle Drug, and you have a much bigger hit than ABOY.

And, if they have any sense at all, they will release A Man And A Woman in the Spring when the weather starts warming up and the tour is in full force. That song will hook so many people who wouldn't ordinarily go buy a U2 album. Fans of R&B will dig the hell out of it - IF they ever get a chance to hear it. Given the choices for second and third singles off this album, though, I don't think the band or Universal will have the guts to do that. And, that's a shame, because it has more crossover potential than anything else on the album, and that's exactly what this album is going to need to stay up.

I agree with most of the things you say here. All Because Of You is really a bad choice for a second single, and the song did help pull down HTDAAB sales.

Cheers,

J

 

[matt76]

Jick Loves U2, Jick Loves U2, Jick Loves U2, Jick Loves U2
Jick Loves U2, Jick Loves U2, Jick Loves U2, Jick Loves U2
Jick Loves U2, Jick Loves U2, Jick Loves U2, Jick Loves U2
Jick Loves U2, Jick Loves U2, Jick Loves U2, Jick Loves U2
Jick Loves U2, Jick Loves U2, Jick Loves U2, Jick Loves U2

 

[jick]

ABOY is doing just fine on the Rock Charts (Modern and Mainstream Rock). It was a great choice!

Like Modern and Mainstream radio still has a substantial audience in this age of illegal music downloads and MTV...

Cheers,

J

 

[jick]

Massive drop? Chart freefall? This week's Hits Daily Double Sales Chart shows HTDAAB with a 1% sales drop from last week. Yeah, that's really massive! So much for that theory.
Jick, you just want them to fail, don't you?

1% drop from last week -- well that's really not a good argument because last week was already terrible figures to begin with. I was hoping it was just a bad week (kinda like a bad hair day) and that sales would climb back up to normal in the next week. Instead it dropped, which is really a shame. Even it it gained by 10% or maintained, it would still be a bad omen to have sales similar to their worst week.

Cheers,

J

 

[jick]

Yes, in addition to this, the drop from no. 13 to no. 22 (the "freefall" he quotes) occurred the week before the pre-sale so there's no correlation whatsoever.

The drop did not occur during presale week. The drop occured during the week they announced that presale would only be limited to one show and two tickets - and this already angered U2 fans and started the boycott. Now, during presale week, the drop is more massive -- from #22 to #34! Now U2 know that they should never mess with their intelligent and united fanbase.

Cheers,

J

 

[achtung y'all]

When the first promo pics of U2 came out, everyone in PLEBA complained that Bono's hair was bad or the straw hat look didn't fit.

When Vertigo first came out, people complained that it was good at first listen but didn't stand well after multiple listens.

When Are You Gonna Wait Forever arrived, people said it was a substandard U2 b-side.

When U2 played CD UK and TOTP, Interferences lambasted U2 miming a performance.

When we got the Vertigo video, people said there were too much computer effects.

When HTDAAB came along, some here said U2 are playing it safe and are over-the-hill as they aren't ambitious or take creative risks.

There were many who questioned the tracklisting order of HTDAAB.

There were those who questioned the band's decision not to make Fast Cars a regular album track.

There were those who said U2 were crazy for not including lyrics in the limited edition version of the album.

When a leak of Mercy was made available, everyone complained why the song didn't make it to the album.

When BandAid20 came out, everyone complained how ugly the song is and how Bono botched his singing part badly.

When the Complete U2 was made available for download, many said it was quite incomplete.

After giving a few listens to the unreleased songs in the Complete U2, people questioned the band's decision to exclude those songs from the album or said that those demo versions were better than the album versions.

It is fine to disagree with some of U2's career moves or album song decisions. But to constantly whine and complain about everything U2 does is something that baffles me. Why even bother to be a member of Interference if all you do is whine?

I squirm at my seat everytime I open the Interference forums and see that it had turned into a massive NEGATIVITYfest. From straightforward negative topics like "U2 songs that I hate" in EYKIW (http://forum.interference.com/t103356.html) to thinly-veiled dissing of album quality, track selection and song exclusions in a thread like "Mercy!!" (http://forum.interference.com/t104445.html).

What has happened? This is supposed to be a good time to be a U2 fan. HTDAAB is getting rave reviews and U2 has finally brought forth an album that has linked the great divide between the POP worshippers and ATYCLB fans. There are extremely happy and positive times. So please people, PLEASE .... stop all the negativity in the posts. Disagreement with the band is ok, constructive criticism is fine. But an overall tone of negativity directed at the band unsupported by reason and treading on borderline trolling should not be tolerated in this forum. A negative thread here and there is ok, but we should have a generally positive outlook - not an attitude of somenone picking straws and finding faults just for the sake of it. STOP THE NEGATIVITY NOW, PLEASE!

 

[jick]

When the first promo pics of U2 came out, everyone in PLEBA complained that Bono's hair was bad or the straw hat look didn't fit.

....
... STOP THE NEGATIVITY NOW, PLEASE!

Everything you said sounds awfully familiar.

Cheers,

J

 

[pepokiss]

Cheers MY ASS



worst thread ever... for Jick... AGAIN

 

[ladywithspinninghead]

The drop did not occur during presale week. The drop occured during the week they announced that presale would only be limited to one show and two tickets - and this already angered U2 fans and started the boycott. Now, during presale week, the drop is more massive -- from #22 to #34! Now U2 know that they should never mess with their intelligent and united fanbase.

Cheers,

J

No, the anger surfaced with the mess of the pre-sale last tuesday, January 25th. The drop to no. 22 occurred at the exact same time - so we can rule out any correlation with the ticket sale mess and their drop in the charts.
Perhaps there were a few *disgruntled* fans with the announcement that they would be eligible for one show only (although this was the rumoured limit for ages), but not enough to make any kind of difference on the Billboard charts.

In fact, I wonder if you can produce any evidence of a "boycott" that started BEFORE the pre-sale last tuesday. You`d be hard pressed methinks.

 

[doctorwho]

I think radio has little relevance nowadays, so it is of no consequence if ABOY picks up in the radio. Moreoever, they aren't picking up in top 40 radio -only in the niche markets of modern rock which really doesn't have that strong a buyer-base.

You are correct in saying the waning of Vertigo also has to do with the drop. But the drop is so dramatic - I'm sure much more than your expected and you were even hopeful for a return to the top ten after it climbed up to #12. But it has gone down much more than anyone could have forecasted (except me, as I have always forecasted this album's staying power to be less than ATYCLB), so it is alarming. The only plausible explanation is the presale mess.

Cheers,

J

The drops that surprised me were in Week 2 and the week after Christmas.

However, having studied charts and sales for a while now, I realize things bounce tremendously. This wasn't true in the 80's. Albums tended to slowly go up the charts (it took JT and R&H 3 weeks each to reach #1 - that would not happen now) and correspondingly declined slowly.

Now, with accurate sales numbers, a chart position can often be misleading. An album can stay stagnant in sales, yet rise or fall a great deal depending on what the albums round it do. Some albums drop 20%, yet *rise* on the charts because of what other albums do. For example, according to HitsDailyDouble, HTDAAB sold almost the exact same amount of albums this week as it did last week - yet it dropped 9 places on the charts. A cause for concern or just chart fluctuation? Clearly the latter as there was no real decrease in sales.

Also, don't be so dismissive of ABoY. Yes, it's making its mark on the Modern Rock charts now. That's also how "Mysterious Ways", "One", "Discotheque", "Beautiful Day", "Staring at the Sun" and "Vertigo" started - and all of these songs eventually became Top 40 hits on Billboards Hot 100.

A hit song can truly rejuvenate an album. For example, Green Day's "American Idiot" is enjoying a surge in sales thanks to the success of its second single - which is #1 on the Modern Rock charts. Fantasia, last year's "American Idol" winner, saw her album slowly fading until a song started getting airplay propelling her album back up the charts. Therefore, even if ABoY doesn't increase sales for HTDAAB, it might help keep the album in the mind's eye - and that's equally important. ATYCLB sold 4.2M copies in the U.S. because U2 did enough to keep the album in the public's ears, even if some of the songs failed to become Top 100 hits (like "Elevation" and "Walk On"). It appears they are doing the same for HTDAAB.

Besides, even if HTDAAB doesn't reach the heights of ATYCLB, who cares? The album is already 3x Platinum in the U.S.! Not many artists can say that about their work - much less an artist who's been around for 25 years. Despite the constant publicity from "American Idol" on TV, no Idol winner has had one of his or her albums sell more than U2's HTDAAB!

 

[Reggie Thee Dog]

How can Jick say that the tour won't have any impact? How can you substantiate that? There are now 25 arena shows in America on the FIRST AMERICAN LEG. The shows will kick ass, SYCMIOYO will be HUGE and the album will spring back to life. This isn't Pop Jick where there was a huge opening week of sales and then there wasn't any radio friendly songs and a STRONG tour to help it out. I'm positive a month into the tour the album will be back in the top 20. Positive.

 

[jick]

How can Jick say that the tour won't have any impact? How can you substantiate that? There are now 25 arena shows in America on the FIRST AMERICAN LEG. The shows will kick ass, SYCMIOYO will be HUGE and the album will spring back to life. This isn't Pop Jick where there was a huge opening week of sales and then there wasn't any radio friendly songs and a STRONG tour to help it out. I'm positive a month into the tour the album will be back in the top 20. Positive.

I don't think the album will ever make the top 20 again until a Grammy nomination sometime next year for album of the year.

But thanks for pointing it out that there are now 25 shows. I never knew that as all I hear was 16 shows. So I guess U2 are now beginning to right their wrongs.

Cheers,

J

 

[ADecentMelody]

But thanks for pointing it out that there are now 25 shows. I never knew that as all I hear was 16 shows. So I guess U2 are now beginning to right their wrongs.

Cheers,

J

I wouldn't go as far as to say it was wrong to only have 16 shows. We don't know the reasons (personal or otherwise) why they've cut back on the number of shows, nor do they owe us a specific number of dates. So, no wrong was righted.

I'm with Reg on this...I bet they crack the top 20 again once the tour starts.

 

[Reggie Thee Dog]

The reason there were only 16 shows was due to the postponement/family illness thing. I don't think this was a wrong. What was wrong was the ill planning for the U2.com presale.

Album sales and chart position will spike if the tour kicks ass!! And it will!

 

[amniar]

Who is jick? I've been here since 2000 and this is the first time I've noticed this person send anything on here. Are you some kind of band insider?

 

[jick]

The reason there were only 16 shows was due to the postponement/family illness thing. I don't think this was a wrong. What was wrong was the ill planning for the U2.com presale.

Album sales and chart position will spike if the tour kicks ass!! And it will!

The presale was a wrong, so there were a number of fans whose systems couldn't get to work and couldn't get tickets to shows despite the presales. So U2's solution? Add more dates to give these presale people more options. So it was righting a wrong.

Cheers,

J

 

[Blue Room]

The presale was a wrong, so there were a number of fans whose systems couldn't get to work and couldn't get tickets to shows despite the presales. So U2's solution? Add more dates to give these presale people more options. So it was righting a wrong.

Cheers,

J

Nice theory, but wrong as usual. The additional shows that have been scheduled were planned before the pre sale even took place.

 

[allbecauseofu2]

hey compared to other alterativerock bands u2 is doing great. i mean be a little more thankful. so HTDDAB going fall off the charts? let it. i look at other at bands that still matter, and thier albums arn't doing good as this. the last 3 rem's have gone gold only, ( the new one might not even be gold yet). the last beastie boys, and alantis morrersette album stopped at platium. the last pearl jam didn;t do anything. and what band of any gerne jat this stage of thier career ust sells this many copys of a new album? how did the last bon jovi do? hmm oh yea realy,lol the cures albums barley chart. how about the recent madonna? yea, thats what i thoguht. only the boss 's last album sold close to this (double platium). motley crue released soke new songs a best of, whos gives a shit? lol. blah blah the only older artist who made a insane comeback in commercal sales was santana , and well, i'll deal with u2 not selling 14 million copys.

(this is no reflection on weather these other artist albums are good or not, i;m just talking about sales)

 

[allbecauseofu2]

bump

 

[jick]

hey compared to other alterativerock bands u2 is doing great. i mean be a little more thankful. so HTDDAB going fall off the charts? let it. i look at other at bands that still matter, and thier albums arn't doing good as this. the last 3 rem's have gone gold only, ( the new one might not even be gold yet). the last beastie boys, and alantis morrersette album stopped at platium. the last pearl jam didn;t do anything. and what band of any gerne jat this stage of thier career ust sells this many copys of a new album? how did the last bon jovi do? hmm oh yea realy,lol the cures albums barley chart. how about the recent madonna? yea, thats what i thoguht. only the boss 's last album sold close to this (double platium). motley crue released soke new songs a best of, whos gives a shit? lol. blah blah the only older artist who made a insane comeback in commercal sales was santana , and well, i'll deal with u2 not selling 14 million copys.

(this is no reflection on weather these other artist albums are good or not, i;m just talking about sales)

You shouldn't compare U2 with other bands. The other bands hardly match up. U2 are unique and exceptional. The only band that can compare to U2 is U2. I have been a staunch critic of the `97-98 version of U2 for example, but that is because they cannot match up to `92-93 or `00-01 or `87-88 versions. But when compared to other artists `97 U2 is still leagues better. So when there is a chart freefall or sales disappointment, it is based on U2 standards that U2 set themselves and only they can match up to.

Cheers,

J

 

[jick]

Just to update you guys on the current Billboard performance on U2, they are down to 34,000 in sales and #28 in the charts. I expect them to drop out of the top 30 next week.

So they have gone from 13 to 22 to 28 in just a two week span, or ever since this presale fiasco came to light. Connection or coincidence? You decide.

Cheers,

J

 

[jick]

I expect them to drop out of the top 30 next week.

I heard the latest news - or Mullen's public apology in U2.com. This will do wonders for the band. I think I will have to revise my prediction for the album not to drop below the top 30. Perhaps it may this week, but for next week it should be strong as news of the refunds plus Mullen's touching letter will ease the pain of the fans. U2 are back on track again! Here's to a successful 2005 world tour...

Cheers,

J