U2 Aren't Complete Sellouts...But Maybe Just A Little Bit

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It's amazing how many fans missed the point of Ipods.

It's also amazing how many fans started hating U2 all of a sudden since 2000. You'd think this is a Radiohead or a Henry Rollins board.

No one is forcing you to buy anything with the name U2 on it.
 
I don´t know if they´re 100 % sell out, but one thing I´m sure of: This is the most commercial intended U2 era ever :( :ohmy: :sad: :tsk:

I think many fans forget something: many of us we don´t live according to U.S nor U.K rules, I mean, we don´t have that need to have a credit card, even many people here don´t have a CHANCE to have one, because it´s so expensive :sad:
also here at least 90 % of people don´t use any new fashion like iPod. Still people here ( including me ) love to listen real CD´s instead :yes:

So maybe for you U2 isn´t so sell out, but for me... :down: :tsk:

with all that iPod, Apple Tunes, "Collector´s Edition", pay per view internet, expensive tickets, short and commercial albums, etc, etc it seems the band don´t care at all simple fans like me, and they really care about ones who have credit card and a lot of golden cash $$$$$

that´s really an insult for people like me, try to see my way, if you just live here in Chile or another poorer country :sad:

I really believe this is the worst U2 face ever, shameful.
 
tkramer said:
Vh-1 sponsored/presented popmart.
(its on my ticket fer crying out loud)

Dito for the last tour.

Larry did a harley ad in the 80's etc.

U2 played the superbowl.

On and on and on...

understand many of you feel off about this. But think on these:

thanks to tech moving forward anyone can now download their whole catalog for 150.00 That's .33 a song. That is NOT selling out. That's making it cheaper than ever before to get the bands tunes.
(of course the complainers have spun this into a somehow evil deed too...)

You don't want 350.00 ipod? Neither do I. Same for a 450.00 signed poster, a 30.00 dollar tour program, or whatever else the band has offered me over the years. It's a U2 ipod, nothing else. Don't stress over it.

U2 and Apple did not trade a penny. They went on record and said it. U2 gets max exposure that they could NEVER do themselves, and Apple gets a cool way to tell the public they have the best online music store in the biz. Yes, A MUSIC store. Not fries, not cars, not paper towels. It's a perfect move by the band. It's the same as "get the new U2 album at your nearest record store!" except no one would bat an eye if they saw that...

Trust me, in 5 years all the kids will think apple is a record store the way you and I remember going down to the corner to pick up an album, tape, cd. Time marchs on, and U2 went with it. They might have been able to sell like this some other way, but this way is forward thinking. (ugh, I hate that term) One way they most certainly would NOT have been as successful with is the single sales. Physical single sales are dead. Nearly gone, ka-put in the USA. A physical CD single is hot stuff if it can sell 10,000 in a week. Vertigo sold 37,000 on I-tunes it's first seven days. That's incredible. All this band is doing is switching from the outdated model (which is the physical) to the up and coming one. They were brilliant to be the first mega rock band to do it.

I couldn't agree more.

I find the "sell out" tag problematic at best, as it pertains to almost anyone. I mean, let's be honest. U2 have never been shy about the fact that they wanted to be on the radio, have people love them, etc. I don't think any of us are qualified to say that the BAND doesn't feel that what they've done in the last couple of records is adventurous. We may not feel that way, but that doesn't mean the band doesn't. None of us can really say how they feel.

And the iPod thing - I can understand someone not liking the idea of the Business connection, but consider the product - for such a huge band to go with iTunes the way that they've done IS forward thinking - it's still a risk. And digital music is going to take over, there's no way around that at this point. They were smart enough to see that this is the way things are going - and really, I can't believe that people are all that surprised that U2 would think the iPod was cool. From the band that brought us Zoo and Popmart? Clearly there's a love of technology there and has been for a long time.

And as for longtime fans not liking the new record - that makes no sense to me. I know it's true in some cases, but it really makes no sense to me. Makes me wonder what they thought they were going to get.
 
The $fee to become a member of U2.com is the thing that bothers me.

The ipod deal is genius in light of the state of the record company.

But they should not charge for premium site content.
 
namkcuR said:
I hate to say that U2 have sold out. I really don't like the term 'sell out', and I rarely use it with anyone, let alone U2. And they haven't completely sold out. But maybe just a little bit. U2 are both a band a business, every band is. But I've never known U2 to sacrifice anything having to do with the Band for the Business, until recently.

Let's go back to 1997. All over the place there were promo posters for the Popmart tour. Now, we all know how U2 has always shunned the idea of corporate sponsorship for their tours. And we all know how on some of these Popmart promo posters, in the top right corner, it said "ZooTV Presents:" and then the huge Popmart logo. That was a borderline-genius mockery of corperate sponsership. That was the epitomy of what U2 were in the 90s. They were avant-garde. They were edgy. They were cynical, ironic. They didn't give a flying **** what anyone thought. They just made exactly the music they wanted to make. And that music was sheer brilliance.

And now...? It's like, ever since the Popmart tour ended and the Best of 1980-1990 was released, U2 have been caring more and more about the Business. Now, you can come up with all sorts of theories: "They got scared off by the relatively disappointing sales of 'Pop' and started making mainstream music again to make sure they still sell records," or "They are making mainstream records in order to stay on top and surpass the Beatles/Stones for the official biggest Band of all time". But what it comes down to is U2 HAVE been conciously making safer, more mainstream records this decade, and there's got to be a reason. And I don't think it's just musical growth. My reason? From their start up through 'Pop', no matter how many times they changed their sound, it felt like the music was evolving. With ATYCLB and now HTDAAB, it feels like there's no more evolution, it's a standstill.

Now, I'm not saying I don't like these records. I like them a lot, hell, I LOVE HTDAAB, I think it's a great record. But it's not evolutionary and it's not brilliant. It's just a great rock record by a great Band. But honestly, 7-10 years ago, do you really think U2 would have put their face on an IPod(if IPods had been around)? I don't.

U2 are still making really great rock music, but it's not going anywhere anymore, because for the first time in their career, the Band and the Business are on equal ground. Business hasn't taken over yet, but I can't say it never will. Like I said, I love this record, but U2 are slowly but surely becoming what they were mocking in the title track of Zooropa.

Zooropa... better by design
Zooropa... fly the friendly skies
Through appliance of science
We've got that ring of confidence....

I know that there's been a lot of discussion on this topic recently, and I think that was one of the best posts I've read concerning this topic. I agree with pretty much everything that was said. I absolutely love U2, loved them in the 80's, 90's (i thought PoP/PoPmart was fucking genuis), and I still do now. I loved ATYCLB/Elevation Tour, I love HTDAAB, and I don't mind the whole ipod thing (am getting one next week). But its true, U2 have taken the safe path, and there's nothing really wrong with that. They still put out just great, straightforward rock tunes. But yes, there are those times when I wish that they could go back to not giving a fuck about what people thought and just experimented. But hell, there's very little U2 can do for me not to like them anymore. But I don't deny the fact that U2 has taken the safe route in terms of these last two records. But anyway, back to my initial point, great post namkcuR
 
redhill said:
The $fee to become a member of U2.com is the thing that bothers me.

The ipod deal is genius in light of the state of the record company.

But they should not charge for premium site content.

Well since they (U2 and their record label) have forced sites to take down lyrics and fan interpreted guitar tabs... the site content of U2.com has gone up to a degree... LOL
 
This debate (sellouts/not sellouts) will be argued until the end of time. U2 are a huge band who want to be the "biggest" band in the world. So they market and sell their product - themselves. It is harder and harder as they advance in age to seem relevant, so they have gone out of their ordinary means to market themselves. Sure some of it is expensive, but it is not intended for everyone as much as it is intended to push the U2 Name out into the public again.

Don't get me wrong, they aren't going to turn away any profit they get from this, but all this "they've never done this or that" is ridiculous. U2's concerts have been sponsored by both MTV and VH1 (both major media companies, with much to profit from by selling and attaching the U2 name to their brand). U2 lost millions and millions of dollars of profit on both the Zoo TV and Popmart tours, as those tours were extremely expensive to run. Popmart cost an estimated $250,000 A DAY, show or no show!

And you know most major bands have a pay site and a free site. That is business on the Internet and U2 are not immune to this. As for ticket prices, again for the show U2 want to put on they fall within industry standards for most major headlining acts. I guarantee you are an act that makes $10 day, but your fans demand you put your show on for $3 a day you'd be hard pressed to change. Sure U2 have millions, but once you live the lifestyle you don't have any urge to go back to soup and bread dinners.

As for Ponkine's gripes, man I have sympathy for you, the iPod stuff and fan site are major burdens to your economic conditions in South America, no doubt. However your major gripe has been the "short" "commercial" album. That argument, to me, is insignificant. U2 music isn't about length or quantity, it's about quality and passion, and if U2's commitment to making and releasing quality songs bothers you then you're on your own there.
 
Look at the big acts- the Stones, Zeppelin and Who have all sold out through commercials. The Beatles through Michael Jackson too. No one thinks any less of these acts for selling out. Some people will even argue these acts are bigger and were more influential than U2. U2 is just doing normal business practices for 2004.

As far as U2 not getting a penny from Apple. I would like to know the total dollars Apple spends on marketing the Ipod with U2 in the ads. I am sure we are talking tens of millions of dollars of U2 exposure.
 
namkcuR said:
I hate to say that U2 have sold out. I really don't like the term 'sell out', and I rarely use it with anyone, let alone U2. And they haven't completely sold out. But maybe just a little bit. U2 are both a band a business, every band is. But I've never known U2 to sacrifice anything having to do with the Band for the Business, until recently.

Let's go back to 1997. All over the place there were promo posters for the Popmart tour. Now, we all know how U2 has always shunned the idea of corporate sponsorship for their tours. And we all know how on some of these Popmart promo posters, in the top right corner, it said "ZooTV Presents:" and then the huge Popmart logo. That was a borderline-genius mockery of corperate sponsership. That was the epitomy of what U2 were in the 90s. They were avant-garde. They were edgy. They were cynical, ironic. They didn't give a flying **** what anyone thought. They just made exactly the music they wanted to make. And that music was sheer brilliance.

Actually U2 sold out with the PopMart tour. They accepted about $100,000,000 from Michael Cole Presents in advance of the tour and cut the local promoters they had been working with for well over 15 years out of the loop. Paul McGuinness explained their reasoning as a financial one. They didn't want to risk financial disaster on the PopMart tour the way they did on ZooTV. ZooTV barely broke even. If the first leg of PopMart hadn't bombed in the States U2 would have made a fortune. As it was they still had their guaranteed up front cash from Michael Cole.

As much as I love the Pop album the cynisism of Pop and PopMart gets under my skin. For the first time U2 were chasing the zeitgeist instead of doing their own thing and waiting for the world to catch up. Their embracing of electronic music felt less like a natural evolution from AB and Zooropa and more like a cynical attempt to jump on board the Electronica express just as that train took off in the States. Then pop music took over the States instead and U2 looked like they were badly out of the loop.
PopMart was also the first time that the band made a big deal in advance about how much of a risk they were taking and how "courageous" they were being to make the Pop album and to tour PopMart. They just seemed too impressed with their own bad selves. And I didn't like it. ZooTV really was funny and ironic. PopMart TRIED to be ironic and funny but the humor and irony was undermined by the bands ego.

Having said that I saw a hell of a PopMart gig in Seattle. By the time the band made it to the second leg of the tour they had been humbled enough to bring the real pathos at the heart of the songs on Pop out in the live show. It's just too bad it took so long.
 
As a visual artist, I can relate to what U2 are doing. I don't think they've "sold out" with the ipod thing. If you do some work in 2004, the past is irrelevant. You want to see the fruits of your labor. That is *both* taking pride in your work (art for art's sake) and getting compensated for it (the business or $$ side). Would HTDAAB been a block-buster seller if they hadn't done the marketing for it? Perhaps not. Now, the web site thing does have alot of people pissed off, and that's not exactly shocking. I registered as a paid member, but of course the whole thing is controversial. If controversy fazed these guys they would have been out of the business 20 years ago.
 
namkcuR said:


This is U2. They have been set for life for 10-15 years. They could never make another cent and they'd be set for life. They don't NEED to do anything for profit at this point. They've had enough money to do whatever they want for a long time.

Remember, that they have to pay their organization also. Don't think it's just 4 guys pocketing the whole shebang. You might hate it, but U2 haven't been 4 irish boys well...since Boy.

Also, the next time you decide to work for free, I've got a yard you can cut & a roof you can fix. :D
 
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ponkine said:
I don´t know if they´re 100 % sell out, but one thing I´m sure of: This is the most commercial intended U2 era ever :( :ohmy: :sad: :tsk:

I think many fans forget something: many of us we don´t live according to U.S nor U.K rules, I mean, we don´t have that need to have a credit card, even many people here don´t have a CHANCE to have one, because it´s so expensive :sad:
also here at least 90 % of people don´t use any new fashion like iPod. Still people here ( including me ) love to listen real CD´s instead :yes:

So maybe for you U2 isn´t so sell out, but for me... :down: :tsk:

with all that iPod, Apple Tunes, "Collector´s Edition", pay per view internet, expensive tickets, short and commercial albums, etc, etc it seems the band don´t care at all simple fans like me, and they really care about ones who have credit card and a lot of golden cash $$$$$

that´s really an insult for people like me, try to see my way, if you just live here in Chile or another poorer country :sad:

I really believe this is the worst U2 face ever, shameful.

Wait they are offering alternative channels for EVERY1. How can you sit there & say it shameful when you are SHOULD be living within your means.

ie, if you have x amount to buy the music..isn't that all you should care about?

Why do you hate on the band when they have not shorted you 1 thing? They have given you the music you wanted thru different mediums.

Whether you choose to spend your $$ in what quantity & for what medium is up to you.

I'm sick of all the supposed fans who hate on the band when they have not done 1 thing except give them music.

Stick to the point.

It's about the music.

What channel you choose & can afford is up to you.

Don't blame others for your personal selfish lust & envious wants.

Quit lying to yourself!
 
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Hmm I just read all the posts thus far and will try to cover my responses to everyone here--

First, I don't get this term "sell-out"? No one has bothered to define what they mean by saying that U2 has or has not "sold out." Does it mean they've compromised their music for more money? And if so, by their own choice or because they were asked to do so by the label? Let's be fair here--U2's music became progressively more accessible through the 80s up till the Joshua Tree, and then once they ruled rocknroll, they had the freedom to experiment and continue to be the hugest band in the world. Perhaps after this tour, they'll be like "ok we're fucking ridiculously huge again, let's use that popularity as collateral, and dream it all up again one more time." Maybe.

As for the iPod.....well, I'm not going to buy it because I got one of the 1st generation iPods right after they came out since I've been a long-time mac user and read MacWorld magazine and all that. I'm waiting another year before I upgrade to a better model because the technology improves on like an hourly basis. But, the thing is red & black and looks really kewl and if I didn't have one, I'd probably get that one. I don't really have a problem with this though-I mean, how is it any different than Edge talking about his favorite guitars in an interview? That's an endorsement in which no money changes hands. And if U2 really believe in the quality of the product and use it themselves (which they probably do), I don't think it's "selling-out" by any sense of the definition.

Finally, you've got to expect rock stars to charge a shitload of money for tickets and make fairly accessible music. I mean, even Zooropa and Pop were pretty accessible. If you don't believe me, go buy a CD by Zipperspy or Hair Police or Wolf Eyes. Those bands charge like $10 to see them play at tiny clubs, and have a loyal following....but not of millions of people. It costs a huge amount of money to put on arena and stadium rock shows, paying all the staff, transporting all the stage/light/sound stuff, it's pretty insane. So they've gotta have higher ticket prices than you'd pay at an indie or punk club. That said, Pearl Jam keeps their ticket prices really freakin low for the huge shows they play.....Eddie Vedder has always been adamant about that (we all remember the infamous battle with Ticketmaster), and that's just something that he prioritizes. He is also content with not being as huge as U2, and I believe, he prefers not to be that huge. U2 could go that route, but it's not who they are. They like being larger than life, and as long as the music is still great, be it accessible or not, I'll pay to see them. If you won't, skip this tour, I'm sure others will take your tickets.
 
Here are my opinions on the points brought up in this whole discussion...

1) I wonder if the same people who complain about U2 becoming "unoriginal and getting away from experimenting" are the same ones who complained after Zooropa and Pop that they wished the band would "get back to making pure U2 music." These guys put out great music, but it’s not all great. There are some U2 songs that I think are absolute shit. For every “I Still Haven’t Found What I’m Looking For” there is bound to be an “Indian Summer Sky” or “Grace.” You don’t have to like it all, but each song is a personal experience. Leave it at that. I can’t explain why the song “Mofo” moves me just as much “Running to Stand Still,” but it just does, and it’s my own personal feeling. But, truthfully, if U2 came out with an album that featured “Row, Row, Row Your Boat,” Happy Birthday To You” and “Mary Had a Little Lamb” I’d wait in line to buy it. But that’s just me.

Whether you are a “Rockist” U2 fan or an “Experimentalist” U2 fan, they still are the best band out there. Radiohead is shit (yes people, SHIT!), Hoobastank is shit, Jet is shit and The White Stripes are shit! But…like I said before, that’s just my opinion.

2) The Apple partnership is genius, and cutting edge and imaginative and great for the fans. I scraped up my extra pennies, sold some stuff on ebay and bought a U2 iPod. I love it! And the only reason I bought it was because it was U2!

I think this whole "sell out" discussion began in 1987 just after "With or Without You" hit number one in the US. I'm certain that Rattle and Hum was the kicker. But tell me why when U2 does an ad and a major agreement with Apple people freak out, and when Destiny's Child does a freakin' McDonalds commercial, no one bats an eye? How about the Who songs on CSI? Led Zeppelin songs selling Cadillacs? Hoobastank on a Mastercard commercial and contest? The whole "selling out" thing is absolute bullshit. Selling out is when you do something you feel you shouldn't, but the money is too good to pass up. U2 does not need the money, and even so, who cares if they take the money and run. How many of you would work for free? Would go to your job everyday just because you love it? This whole selling out thing is absolute hogwash. That’s the whole point…make something you love into a profession. Get paid for doing what you love!!!

U2 will never be like poor Eddie of Pearl Jam who is so pained by the fact that he has SOOOOO much money and he feels guilty for making it. They love making and sharing music, but they love the life that selling their music has provided them...and they make no bones about it. They owe us nothing more than making great music, which is what they continue to do.

I think the beautiful thing about U2 is the fact that they’ve been able to make loads of cash, stay relevant and none of them has self destructed because of that success. They own up to their success and then they continue striving for more. They proclaimed they were auditioning for the title of “Biggest band in the World” back in 2001, and they got the job. Now they are using the title and pummeling the competition. Nirvana had this title at one time, but Kurt couldn’t handle so he blew his head off. You barely hear about U2 in the tabloids at all, and when you do, it’s because Bono is nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize. That’s a sellout? Why do people immediately dismiss bands because they are popular? “Oh, I really loved that band, but now I hear them all the time and see them on TV and they totally sold out. They suck! I wish they wouldn’t have done that.” What in the hell is that all about? I personally preach the U2 catalog to everyone I see. I WANT everyone to love U2 as much I do. They inspire me and bring a lot of joy to my life, and I wish everyone could experience that. I guess it comes to down to being selfish about them…we want them to be “our band” and when they hit it big, we immediately have to share. Screw that! It’s a huge party…the more the merrier!

I will continue to buy anything U2 throws at me, and I will do it gladly. If you feel that paying money for music or an experience related to that music is too much for your tender moral fabric to handle, then sit back, listen to the radio and wait for the next U2 to song to come. Or, log on to Kazaa and rip away baby!

As for me, I’ll be the one over in the corner, logged onto U2.com plugging away at a rant in the “members only” forums about getting my Salt Lake City and Phoenix concert tickets early through Propoganda, listening to “Xanax and Wine” on my cool black and red iPod, wearing my Popmart tour shirt, sitting on an inflatable Trabant all while my 20-month old daughter dances around in her new “Unos-Dos-Tres-Catorce” t-shirt to the Vertigo iPod commercial that just came on for thirteenth time today.

“You’ve made me very famous and I THANK YOU!!!” –Macphisto
 
pmickey said:
Radiohead is shit (yes people, SHIT!), Hoobastank is shit, Jet is shit and The White Stripes are shit!
No, yes, yes, no!

I think U2 have sold out. *shrugs* Still listen to the music, will still pay whatever they charge to see their tour. Won't pay $40 to sign up to U2.com, won't buy a U2 ipod. You can choose what you want to pay for.
 
So tell me the definition of a sell-out
Cast your first stone, but then get the hell out
People say they know me I can tell you that they don't
People say they own me I can tell you that they won't
 
caylan said:



Don't blame others for your personal selfish lust & envious wants.

Quit lying to yourself!

First: it´s clear you don´t know any shit about poorer countries :sad:

second: it´s clear who´s selfish....
 
Well, it seems clear that YOU don't know any shit about having selfish lust & envious wants. With talk like that there might also be a good discussion topic about what constitutes a poor country...

:tsk:
 
ponkine,

Are poverty levels really that low in Chile? I mean Chileans seem to have enough money to go to concerts and buy CDs, so I'm guessing it's not as bad as Africa. Besides, it is evident that you have access to the internet. While caylan's post may have been harsh, he does bring up a good point. People really are no better off with all the gadgets and gizmos than without them. You can lust after all the goodies, but as soon as you have them, you only want more. I think this principle dominates every culture, and third world citizens simply haven't experienced the next step in their greed. Maybe that last statement was also a little harsh, but I don't know. The whole sellout issue is arbitrary, and I refuse to participate in believing it.
 
FullonEdge2 said:
ponkine,

Are poverty levels really that low in Chile? I mean Chileans seem to have enough money to go to concerts and buy CDs, so I'm guessing it's not as bad as Africa. Besides, it is evident that you have access to the internet. While caylan's post may have been harsh, he does bring up a good point. People really are no better off with all the gadgets and gizmos than without them. You can lust after all the goodies, but as soon as you have them, you only want more. I think this principle dominates every culture, and third world citizens simply haven't experienced the next step in their greed. Maybe that last statement was also a little harsh, but I don't know. The whole sellout issue is arbitrary, and I refuse to participate in believing it.

well, we´re actually like a "second world country". Our leves of poverty here are better than Argentina, Uruguay, Brasil, Peru or Bolivia. Comparing all South American countries, we´re great :yes: but if we compare with Eurupean countries, Australia, New Zeland or United States... :tsk:

I´ve been living with U.S students for a couple of years, who comes to visit and live in Chile for around 6 months. How different are their lives !!!. All they have credit card, despite all they´re just students, none of them work, etc. All they´ve iPod, personal computers, etc, and they´re just 18 - 20 years old !!!!.

Here in Chile, if you want to have a credit card, for example, you MUST be a professional, because any bank ask your University professional Grade ( certified ) first, in case you´re still studying, you can´t have a credit card.

I´m a professional, if I wanted I would have a credit card...but, even for professionals like me it´s quite expensive to have one. Nobody uses a credit card for a CD here, the few people who have one use it for to buy a car or really expensive things.

What I´m trying to say: a somewhat cheap thing for some people ( specially for fans from Europe and United States ) is really expensive here, it takes a lot of more hard work and weeks, even months to get the same things some people have :( :sad:
 
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U2 aren't sellouts, they're just snazzy businessmen who know how to make a shrewd buck. And they are marketing geniuses. If they weren't they'd have been toast by now.

One accountant for the band said "U2 is more like a major industrial corporation than a music group." And I completely agree.

I come from a third-world country called the Philippines, but I don't any problem with giving U2 my hard-earned money because they deserve it with the quality of music they give me. Right now, they are the best product in the music shelves.

To appreciate U2's business side much much more, I'd like to show you this well written article about the band:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

U2's web of rock and royalties
21/11/04 00:00

By Ian Kehoe
Accounts for Not Us, the holding company for the U2 corporate vehicle, show a firm with debts of more than €18.5million.

Fortunately for the biggest band in rock music today, it happens to own most of the companies owed money by Not Us.

Such is the complex nature of U2's finances. The accounts for last year, which were filed last week, reveal a complicated web of subsidiaries, trusts and inter-company loans. Large sums of money flow between 19 corporate entities, most of which posted a loss in the 2003 fiscal year.

"U2 is more like a major industrial corporation than a music group," said one accountant. "Like any corporation, it will have profitable units and it will have loss-making units. The difference with a band is that it can't simply jettison the loss-making units. It is a package."

The band is far from loss-making, and will generate huge sums of money in the coming year.LastFriday,U2 released their 11th studio album, How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb, while their song, Vertigo, was sitting at the top of the British singles chart.

According to industry sources, bands are paid in three stages - first, when the group signs up to record an album; secondly, when the recording is completed; and finally when the album goes on sale. U2 reached the final payment and will also receive royalties, depending on its success.

Next year, the Dublin four-piece will embark on another money-spinning tour. The band's most recent tour, Elevation, was one of the most profitable in rock history.

According to the accounts, Not Us owed Thengel, another company controlled by the band, more than €8.8 million. The money is interest free and will not be sought "in the foreseeable future'', the accounts say.

A further €9.6millionwas due to a collection of subsidiaries. Straypass, a company which was set up to run a concert tour, was due €2.6 million from the holding company.

U2 Limited, which manufactures master tapes, was owed more than €4.7 million.

Not Us, like all Irish small companies, is only required to publish abridged accounts. As such, they provide a limited understanding of the band's finances and do not contain details of income and expenditure.

"It probably suits the band to have so many subsidiaries," said Suzanne Kelly, a leading tax lawyer.

"Different elements of the business are taxed at different rates. For example, they would not have to pay tax on the royalties from songwriting, due to the artists' exemption.

"However, they would have to pay tax on profits from merchandising or from sponsorship. It is a very complex area and the accounts would reflect this."

Industry sources said that much of U2's wealth came from songwriting and was therefore exempt from tax, as creative artists do not pay tax on their royalties. Furthermore, most of the band's companies did not have to pay corporation tax on profits, as most of them made a loss.

The accounts do not reveal how much the band paid in tax. However, €110,000was due to the Revenue Commissioners at the end of 2003, according to the accounts.

"It is a case of attributing expenditure so that it matches your income," said Kelly. "That is the key to limiting tax liability in any business. If you don't make a profit, you can't pay tax on it.

"But it is not simply a case of making sure you don't make a profit by transferring money elsewhere.

"You will have to pay tax on money you take from the company."

The accounts show U2 has two separate trusts, a defined pension vehicle called the Princus Investment Trust and the U2 Partnership Trust. Neither is obliged to file accounts.

"U2 have a number of different interests and probably want to ring fence those," said one industry figure. "The music industry is cyclical.

You have years where you make a lot of money through concerts or promotions. Alternatively, you have years when you are not really doing much aside from writing music."

A separate set of accounts for Brushfield, the holding company for the Clarence Hotel, which is owned by Bono, The Edge and Dublin businessman Harry Crosbie, show that the hotel made a pre-tax loss of €302,000 for the year ending December 31, 2003.

The hotel closed the year with accumulated losses of more than €11.2 million.

The hotel increased its turnover from €13.4 million in 2002 to €14.9 million last year. Despite its retained losses, it had €9.7 million in the bank at the end of the year, according to the accounts.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Cheers,

J
 
ponkine said:


First: it´s clear you don´t know any shit about poorer countries :sad:

second: it´s clear who´s selfish....


Why are you so angry?
Why are you so concern @ what others have & don't have?

Purported critics like you can't even take care of #1 much less critique the rest of societies.

Let me repeat this for your royal denseness.

It's the music that matters.


Unfortunately you've turn this into a melodramatic generalization of western consumption.

We are all dealt the cards.
There ARE inequities in life.
However what you do with them defines who you are in this life.

Look in the mirror & start with yourself be4 you work on me & my kind.

Coming on a chatboard & disparaging a band & how they have create different delivery channels is beyond moronic.
 
Aardvark747 said:

I think that's a little strong dont you? That's a horrible thing to say.

Maybe so. But the sledgehammer had to be brought down.

Why do ppl constantly denigrate U2 for creating music & offering different avenues to acquire it?

Isn't one of the sins - ENVY?

Maybe if we stop envying what others have & focus on our own bigger problems, things would be better in world.

SELFISH works both ways.

To come here & say the band sold out cause it's offering the same 11 songs (not counting fast cars) in different formats is ludicrous.

In this day & age, when you want to feel connected to your heros - U2 definintely is - their omnipresent media barrage makes them accessible. Not arrogant or money hungry.
 
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fucking u2. those money-grubbers should show their true greedy colors and release a DVD Box Set of Red Rocks, Zoo Sydney, and Popmart Mexico. :wink:
 
Tool-

"Hooker with a Penis"

I met a boy wearing Vans, 501s, and a
Dope Beastie t, nipple rings, and
New tattoos that claimed that he
Was OGT,
From '92,
The first EP.

And in between
Sips of Coke
He told me that
He thought
We were sellin' out,
Layin' down,
Suckin' up
To the man.

Well now I've got some
A-dvice for you, little buddy.
Before you point the finger
You should know that
I'm the man,

And if I'm the man,

Then you're the man, and
He's the man as well so you can
Point that fuckin' finger up your ass.

All you know about me is what I've sold you,
Dumb fuck.
I sold out long before you ever heard my name.

I sold my soul to make a record,
Dip shit,
And you bought one.

So I've got some
Advice for you, little buddy.
Before you point your finger
You should know that
I'm the man,

If I'm the fuckin' man
Then you're the fuckin' man as well
So you can
Point that fuckin' finger up your ass.

All you know about me is what I've sold you,
Dumb fuck.
I sold out long before you ever heard my name.

I sold my soul to make a record,
Dip shit,
And you bought one.

All you read and
Wear or see and
Hear on TV
Is a product
Begging for your
Fatass dirty
Dollar

So...Shut up and

Buy my new record
Send more money
Fuck you, buddy.
 
haha well i can't tell whether you're joking about that or not, but it's an interesting point.

indie kids and punkers are so fucking picky. i should know, i am one. if the Tossers ever ended up on Capital Records or Virgin, i know I'd be pissed. people who are into underground/under-represented/indie/punk whatever music really take pride in the fact that they listen to stuff that's out of the mainstream. it's a musical aesthetic that has nothing to do with the sound a lot of the time.

so to the guy who said people got pissed when With Or Without You hit #1, that crowd was probably the indie crowd who listened to U2 on college radio when they had street cred.

that's the thing with all this iPod/Apple/expensive tour stuff. it takes away from U2's street cred.






yertle-the-turtle said:
I'm still bitter the Clash signed to a major label.

Wankers.
 
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