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Old 09-24-2002, 05:59 AM   #141
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Originally posted by Whats The Story?


No thats bull because U2 would never have claimed those songs were their own in any other context, they were pretty desperate for a break in the music industry. Hence why you don't see U2 trying to pass those Ramones songs off as their own on any albums. The Ground Beneath Her Feet was a unique song because it wasn't written in a cynical manner for chart success by a professional pop songwriter, but by an author. U2 showed their creativity by turning his words into a song. Also in case you haven't noticed it isn't particularly commercia-sounding either, it was a one-off collabaration between friends. This is completely different from the Bon Jovi situation and you know it, but you're too stubborn to back down.

So you are saying just because U2 was desperate they were justified in bullsh*tting everyone into thinking they wrote those songs? What about that band that finished second place to them in that contest? That band could have been bigger then U2, you'll never know. But U2 cheated in the past to be where they are. Some people like you may think the ends justify the means - well that's your call. I would rather work with pop songwriters (as if anything is wrong with that) than claim other people's songs as my own. But I tip my hat off to U2, they have made up for their sins of the past.

On your second point, why do you say The Ground Beneath Her Feet wasn't commercial sounding? What is your definition of commercial sounding?

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J
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Old 09-24-2002, 06:05 AM   #142
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Originally posted by shaun vox
bon jovi sux ok. their new song is shit if you'r a girl and like them them ok but if you'r a guy then dude you got some problems.
there is not one song from bon jovi that i can stand. oh did is say how much bon jovie suxxxxxxxxxxxxx.
There is not one song that you can stand? Well at least you did give them a listen because you wouldn't have had made that statement if you hadn't listened to all Bon Jovi's songs. This is a free world and you are entitled to your conclusions about Bon Jovi. At least you didn't categorically state Bon Jovi has no artistic and musical redeeming value whatsoever, as you stated that Bon Jovi is good for girls. I think Jon Bon Jovi would be very happy with that statement.

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Old 09-24-2002, 06:09 AM   #143
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Originally posted by Hawkmoon1021


Pearl Jam cheesy? Bon Jovi has Velveeta running through their veins. Richie Samboring did Snapple TV commercials a few years back. That is so Rock & Roll. Are PJ typical rock wannabe's when they took on ticketmaster and don't make videos? BJ wouldn't even exsist without MTV. Plus, did you ever hear BJ talk on stage? I did. (Not by choice) All of the sudden he thinks he is Bruce Springsteen. It's laughable how contrived he is. The U2 comparison is also ridiculous. BJ had I hit song in the US in the last 10 years & it's just a remake of one one of their 80's (s)hits basically, the rest of their stuff tanked, as will this new turd they drop. Let's see how U2's Best Of sells in comparison to the latest BJ.
Wow! You actually saw Bon Jovi onstage for a concert? I have never seen Bon Jovi live. I have seen Pearl Jam, Sting and U2, but never Bon Jovi. I must be missing a lot but I hope to see them live someday!

Pearl Jam taking on Ticketmaster was nothing more than a publicity stunt back then.

I don't think it will be a fair comparison between Bon Jovi's latest "Bounce" and U2's "Best Of 1990-2000". Let's compare Bounce with U2's next studio effort. Overall, I think Crush sold as many copies as U2's Best Of 1980-1990 and outsold POP.

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Old 09-24-2002, 06:14 AM   #144
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Originally posted by Michael Griffiths
Just a neet little review from 1987 on The Joshua Tree - note the Bon Jovi reference just past the middle, towards the end...

Great review! Joshua Tree is my all-time favorite U2 album. Thanks for the memories. The review shows even more parallelisms with both bands. Back in 1987, U2 had just released a well-reviewed album while the world was feasting on Bon Jovi. More than a decade later, U2 had just released the well-reviewed All That You Can't Leave Behind at a time the world was feasting on Bon Jovi's Crush album (and the hit It's My Life). Anyone who read that review back in 1987 wouldn't think come 2002, Bon Jovi would still be releasing a hit album, and U2 would have just celebrated a 2nd decade of greatest hits!

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Old 09-24-2002, 06:35 AM   #145
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Originally posted by jick


Wow! You actually saw Bon Jovi onstage for a concert? I have never seen Bon Jovi live. I have seen Pearl Jam, Sting and U2, but never Bon Jovi. I must be missing a lot but I hope to see them live someday!

Pearl Jam taking on Ticketmaster was nothing more than a publicity stunt back then.

I don't think it will be a fair comparison between Bon Jovi's latest "Bounce" and U2's "Best Of 1990-2000". Let's compare Bounce with U2's next studio effort. Overall, I think Crush sold as many copies as U2's Best Of 1980-1990 and outsold POP.

Cheers,

J
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Of course I never saw BJ in concert. You couldn't pay me to sit through that. I'd rather watch paint dry. I saw them on some award awards show or something. BTW their version of Helter Skelter is an atrocity. I can't believe they even had the balls to attempt it. That song is everything their not. Also, BJ's last album did tank, at least here in the US, it was a live album I believe. ATYCLB & The Best of 80-90 each outsold Crush I'm pretty sure. POP outsold what ever album BJ had out at the same time I think. Also, Popmart was the most successful, or 2nd most successful tour, of 1997.
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Old 09-24-2002, 07:58 AM   #146
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Originally posted by Bono's shades


EXACTLY! And there's a huge difference between having some hack pop songwriter write your songs because you want to appeal to the brainless N'Sync and Brittney lovers and having an acclaimed author like Rushdie write lyrics for one of your songs because you admire his work.

Blow Jovi... Thanks, mmmBono, that was great!
Actually, this is wrong too - but in a good way.

Rushdie's lyrics appear in one of his books. They had NOTHING to do with U2. And, in reality, the reverse could be said - it appears that Rushdie was heavily influenced by U2 in that book.

So Rushdie did NOT "write lyrics for one of U2's songs because they admired his work." What happened is that Bono/U2 took PART of that passage in the book and converted it to a song. This involved creating the melody and song itself, which is quite a bit of work.

U2 have done cover songs as b-sides or in concert, but other than "Ground..." I think all of their a-side, album songs were written entirely by them.
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Old 09-24-2002, 12:16 PM   #147
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Originally posted by jick


So you are saying just because U2 was desperate they were justified in bullsh*tting everyone into thinking they wrote those songs? What about that band that finished second place to them in that contest? That band could have been bigger then U2, you'll never know. But U2 cheated in the past to be where they are. Some people like you may think the ends justify the means - well that's your call. I would rather work with pop songwriters (as if anything is wrong with that) than claim other people's songs as my own. But I tip my hat off to U2, they have made up for their sins of the past.

On your second point, why do you say The Ground Beneath Her Feet wasn't commercial sounding? What is your definition of commercial sounding?

Cheers,

J
The King Of POP
Ground Beneath Her Feet (great song BTW) doesn't sound commercial to me in the way that I don't feel the song possesses any obvious pop hooks, its more of an atmosphere piece, much the same as With Or Without You sounded different to anything else around when it came out.

2nd point: U2 had to get their foot in the door for a record deal. They did that....The odds of the band they beat to second place becomming an even bigger band than U2 are very slim. It wasn't exactly an honourable thing that they did, but they have never let other people write songs for them on albums or singles. You are clutching at straws.
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Old 09-24-2002, 02:05 PM   #148
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Originally posted by jick


Pearl Jam wrote TEN then went downhill into oblivion until a brief comeback with Last Kiss. Kinda like how Radiohead went downhill after Creep.

Cheers,

J
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The above statement is deeply, deeply ignorant. I think it proves exactly how much you know about music. Anyone who continues to argue with you from this point on really shouldn't even bother.

That being said, I strongly encourage everyone to let this thread die.
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Old 09-24-2002, 02:31 PM   #149
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All You need Is Love and Peace On Earth

Jick ...baby.... it 's alright that u love BonJovi, U2 & stuff , that's great ....really .....but what are u tryin to start here ???? a war .... on U2 forum main part ( EYIW ) to start a topic called " Bon Jovi is great etc etc " .. it's like a red sheet for a U2 bull , baby ...




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Old 09-24-2002, 02:42 PM   #150
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Originally posted by doctorwho
U2 have done cover songs as b-sides or in concert, but other than "Ground..." I think all of their a-side, album songs were written entirely by them.
yep. the only cover songs that made it onto an album were on rattle and hum. and each song was live.

i don't think U2 ever intended for TGBHF to be successful commercially. was it even released as a single?
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Old 09-24-2002, 03:32 PM   #151
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Originally posted by HeartlandGirl


The above statement is deeply, deeply ignorant. I think it proves exactly how much you know about music. Anyone who continues to argue with you from this point on really shouldn't even bother.

That being said, I strongly encourage everyone to let this thread die.
Fully agreed on this one.
Enough already.
It's obvious where your heart is. Buried deep somewhere up Blow Jovi's ass. And that's okay. You're a fan. I'm not.
But how about leave it at that? The comparisons that you have made throughout don't hold any "water" in my book.
You're obviously not a Pearl Jam fan. And that's okay. They took on ticketmaster with only the fans' best interests in mind....it was not a stunt by any stretch of the imagination. I wouldn't call dragging your ass to battle in the courts for the good of the fans a stunt. I'm proud of PJ's efforts to keep ticket prices low. And they are still keeping to their word on this said issue.
And to make that statement about PJ and Radiohead....just goes to show that you are lost in the black hole that is called Bon Jovi.
PJ's entire catalogue AFTER Ten grew by leaps and bounds in the creativity department. As did Radiohead's music after Creep. These are 2 bands with unlimited growth.....big big ideas in their head. Vedder's least favourite album is TEN, by the way.LOL!
Again...you place a very large importance on commercial aspects of music....and that seems to be the deciding factor for you on what makes a band great.
For me it doesn't. I don't choose the flavour of the day. My ears know what they want to hear. And it ain't Bon Jovi.
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Old 09-25-2002, 02:51 AM   #152
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Originally posted by Hawkmoon1021


Also, BJ's last album did tank, at least here in the US, it was a live album I believe. ATYCLB & The Best of 80-90 each outsold Crush I'm pretty sure. POP outsold what ever album BJ had out at the same time I think. Also, Popmart was the most successful, or 2nd most successful tour, of 1997.
Let me just rant here, although it is off-topic. I just find it sad that all the great bands don't think about releasing a live album during their live peak. Sure U2's best live moments were in the 90's but it was mainly because they were massive shows with lots of eye candy.

Van Halen released their Right Here, Right Now Live album in the early 90's - way past their live heydey from the early 80's. Bon Jovi released their first live album only recently and it featured performances taken from their 90's concerts. The Psychedelic Furs just released a live album last year, way past their 80's peak. Men At Work released a live album only in the 90's - not when they were at the top of their game in the 1980's.

Why do bands only realize to release live albums after their live performance energetic peak years? Even U2 have never released a live album since Under A Blood Red Sky. Sure that may have been their energetic peak, but they were quite raw back then. A live double album with a full Joshua Tree or Lovetown Show would be the best. Instead we got R&H which was only half a live album.

I don't think there are any exceptions, but I would love to know if there are. It seems all bands release live albums too late. Sure the Police released a live double album but that was in the 1990's - way past their demise when everyone had forgotten them. What I think would be cool is to watch a band release a live album during their live peak years.

And even as great a band as Bon Jovi is, they are no exception, falling to the mistake of releasing a live album too late and featuring performances when they weren't exactly at their live peak. Sure it's still all great but wouldn't it have been better to get the same songs as they were performed in the earlier Bon Jovi tours from the late 80's? As for U2, while Hasta La Vista Baby is great, it would have been better if their fanclub lvie album would feature performances from the mid-to-late 80's.

Oh well, sorry for the off-topic rant. I'll post about the Bon Jovi-U2 topic shortly.

Cheers,

J
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Old 09-25-2002, 02:53 AM   #153
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Originally posted by doctorwho


U2 have done cover songs as b-sides or in concert, but other than "Ground..." I think all of their a-side, album songs were written entirely by them.
Right off the bat, Love Rescue Me comes to mind as not entirely written by U2. I think Bob Dylan had some contribution to the song lyrically or musically, and backing vocals too.

Also, 40 was lifted straight off the Bible, so it was originally written by King David.

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Old 09-25-2002, 02:59 AM   #154
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Originally posted by Whats The Story?


Ground Beneath Her Feet (great song BTW) doesn't sound commercial to me in the way that I don't feel the song possesses any obvious pop hooks, its more of an atmosphere piece, much the same as With Or Without You sounded different to anything else around when it came out.

2nd point: U2 had to get their foot in the door for a record deal. They did that....The odds of the band they beat to second place becomming an even bigger band than U2 are very slim. It wasn't exactly an honourable thing that they did, but they have never let other people write songs for them on albums or singles. You are clutching at straws.
Just because it doesn't sound commercial to you doesn't mean it is commercial. A lot of these rap-metal songs hardly have any hooks and have incomprehensible lyrics, yet they are considered mainstream and commercial. Commercial simply means that the radio stations and MTV decides to play it. No matter how badly structured or how alternative the song is, if it's played it commercial. So just because radio stations and MTV people prefer to play Bon Jovi songs makes them commercial. U2's problem is that they never released a video of The Ground Beneath Her Feet, so it never made it to MTV. On the flip side, Passengers released a video of Miss Sarajevo and it actually charted here in the MTV Asia Top 20 back then. So it's not the song structure per se that makes a song commercial, but it is its acceptance by the commercial broadcast channels of radio and TV.

"Not exactly an honourable thing to do" is the understatement of the year. It was a bad thing to do. It was a thoughtless thing to do. it was sinful, and lacked any moral ethical value whatsoever. At least U2 have straightened up their act since then, but its just plain evil to do that. Any band who sings song specifically written for them is better off then another band who sings other songs and claiming it is theirs.

Cheers,

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Old 09-25-2002, 03:02 AM   #155
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Originally posted by HeartlandGirl


The above statement is deeply, deeply ignorant. I think it proves exactly how much you know about music. Anyone who continues to argue with you from this point on really shouldn't even bother.

That being said, I strongly encourage everyone to let this thread die.
My Bad! I didn't mean that Pearl Jam went downhill after TEN. I just realized they also released Daughter from the VS album after TEN and this was a monster hit too. But Radiohead was all downhill after Creep, they never dented the charts anymore and betrayed their fans by going "weirdo" and "arty" with them.

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Old 09-25-2002, 03:03 AM   #156
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Re: All You need Is Love and Peace On Earth

Quote:
Originally posted by pinkfloyd
Jick ...baby.... it 's alright that u love BonJovi, U2 & stuff , that's great ....really .....but what are u tryin to start here ???? a war .... on U2 forum main part ( EYIW ) to start a topic called " Bon Jovi is great etc etc " .. it's like a red sheet for a U2 bull , baby ...




There is no war here. If you look through the entire thread, there is no flaming or name calling, just agreements and disagreements. The original intention of my post was to point out some similarities between Bon Jovi and U2 ...but after many more replies, I just realized that there are even more similarities which I didn't discover before.

Cheers,

J
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Old 09-25-2002, 03:10 AM   #157
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Originally posted by mmmBono

Fully agreed on this one.
Enough already.
It's obvious where your heart is. Buried deep somewhere up Blow Jovi's ass. And that's okay. You're a fan. I'm not.
But how about leave it at that? The comparisons that you have made throughout don't hold any "water" in my book.
You're obviously not a Pearl Jam fan. And that's okay. They took on ticketmaster with only the fans' best interests in mind....it was not a stunt by any stretch of the imagination. I wouldn't call dragging your ass to battle in the courts for the good of the fans a stunt. I'm proud of PJ's efforts to keep ticket prices low. And they are still keeping to their word on this said issue.
And to make that statement about PJ and Radiohead....just goes to show that you are lost in the black hole that is called Bon Jovi.
PJ's entire catalogue AFTER Ten grew by leaps and bounds in the creativity department. As did Radiohead's music after Creep. These are 2 bands with unlimited growth.....big big ideas in their head. Vedder's least favourite album is TEN, by the way.LOL!
Again...you place a very large importance on commercial aspects of music....and that seems to be the deciding factor for you on what makes a band great.
For me it doesn't. I don't choose the flavour of the day. My ears know what they want to hear. And it ain't Bon Jovi.
Peace.
Autumn
If my heart is buried deep inside Bon Jovi's ass, then maybe my heart is buried even deeper up to the intestines of U2! I am a much bigger U2 fan than I am a Jovi fan.

Pearl Jam could have kept their fight with ticketmaster private but they blew it up and spread it to all media channels. Obviously a lame marketing stunt, telling the public "hey watch our gigs, our tickets are cheaper or at least we try!"

But hey I am a Pearl Jam fan. I love their Yellow Leadbetter song which is by no means commercial since it was never even released in an album. I saw them once here in the Philippines - very reasonable ticket prices and watching Vedder open the concert with his growling voice in Release was spine-tingling.

The commercial aspect is important because it is what makes a band successful. Artsy stuff can't be measured, but commercial success can. Commercial success proves that they are making enough money to make a living and feed their families and that is what really matters, expecially to people like Bono and Jon BonJovi who are still together with their high school sweethearts and have kids....oh wait... did I just uncover another parallelism between Bono and Jon? Wow! The similarities keep coming!!!!

Separated at birth!

Cheers,

J
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Old 09-25-2002, 04:12 AM   #158
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Quote:
Originally posted by jick

"Not exactly an honourable thing to do" is the understatement of the year. It was a bad thing to do. It was a thoughtless thing to do. it was sinful, and lacked any moral ethical value whatsoever. At least U2 have straightened up their act since then, but its just plain evil to do that. Any band who sings song specifically written for them is better off then another band who sings other songs and claiming it is theirs.
Just plain evil? You've got to be kidding me. Murder is evil. They fooled some guy into letting them play on his show (where they performed THEIR OWN songs). Bad, maybe. Thoughtless, most definitely. I'd personally go with desperate. But evil? Maybe if they'd made this into a habit. But it's hardly fair to characterize them as a "band who sings other songs and claiming it is theirs" when they did it once, to one person. Yeah, they've really cleaned up their act since then, seeing as they never did it before or since.

I've tried to stay out of this thread, just cause I find it to be so freaking absurd. I mean, why is this even an issue? You're basing a comparison on the fact that both bands have sold a lot of records and have had outlasted most of their contemporaries. Yeah...so? Bon Jovi is still a good band that writes catchy rock/pop tunes and performs them well. And U2 is still the best band on the planet with a back-catalog of some of the best songs and albums in rock and roll. And there's still no comparison.
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Old 09-25-2002, 04:19 AM   #159
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Originally posted by jick


If my heart is buried deep inside Bon Jovi's ass, then maybe my heart is buried even deeper up to the intestines of U2! I am a much bigger U2 fan than I am a Jovi fan.

Pearl Jam could have kept their fight with ticketmaster private but they blew it up and spread it to all media channels. Obviously a lame marketing stunt, telling the public "hey watch our gigs, our tickets are cheaper or at least we try!"

But hey I am a Pearl Jam fan. I love their Yellow Leadbetter song which is by no means commercial since it was never even released in an album. I saw them once here in the Philippines - very reasonable ticket prices and watching Vedder open the concert with his growling voice in Release was spine-tingling.

The commercial aspect is important because it is what makes a band successful. Artsy stuff can't be measured, but commercial success can. Commercial success proves that they are making enough money to make a living and feed their families and that is what really matters, expecially to people like Bono and Jon BonJovi who are still together with their high school sweethearts and have kids....oh wait... did I just uncover another parallelism between Bono and Jon? Wow! The similarities keep coming!!!!

Separated at birth!
You keep basing your comparisons on the most trivial information. We've established that they're both successful rock bands that make a lot of money. Ok. So now you're big revalation is that both lead singers married their high school sweetheart? Wow, I mean that's almost an amazing enough coincidence to make me overlook the fact that it has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE MUSIC.

And what do you mean you can't measure "artsy stuff"? So you never make any judgements as to the relative quality of different bands' music? Of course such things aren't definitive, but that doesn't make them unworthy of discussion and that certainly doesn't make commercial success as an important point of comparison as you keep making it out to be.
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Old 09-25-2002, 07:38 AM   #160
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Originally posted by jick

Commercial success proves that they are making enough money to make a living and feed their families and that is what really matters, expecially to people like Bono and Jon BonJovi who are still together with their high school sweethearts and have kids....oh wait... did I just uncover another parallelism between Bono and Jon? Wow! The similarities keep coming!!!!

Separated at birth!

Cheers,

J
The King Of POP
Yes, they are 2 peas in a pod.

I don't like BJ & I don't see anthing parallel musically between them & U2, but if you do, it's all good. Enjoy.
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