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Old 04-08-2002, 11:21 AM   #41
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Originally posted by wertsie:
I think the Popmart Tour helped me understand POP a lot more. I don't think I really even noticed the goofy costumes or anything that much. I just saw those four guys playing up there on stage together, and it was like a religious experience, it really was!
I don't doubt that it was a religious experience! I can't imagine a U2 concert being anything else! I regret not making it a priority when I could have seen it! Looking back, it was just what I needed to help me through that tough period in my life.


Quote:
Originally posted by wertsie:
I guess one of the reasons why the "2 separate bands" thing has bugged me is because POP always seems to be the target of ridicule, and this was the time period when I became a fan, so it was special to me. It always will be.
It's funny that you think that POP is a target of ridicule, because from posts I have read about Pop in the past, I've felt that mentioning that I don't really like that album 1) questions my loyalty as a fan 2) indicates that I have bad taste for not liking it!

Quote:
Originally posted by wertsie:
I just want to bring this up again, and I'm really curious what people think. Arguably, the change from R&H to AB was a lot more drastic than the one from Zooropa to POP and yet by and large, people don't seem to have as much of a problem with the FIRST transition...Why do you think that is? I mean, I look back at the Mirrorball Man and Mr. MacPhisto, and those guys were SCARY! I'm NOT attacking it by any means, I just want to know what you think...

I saw Zoo TV in 1992 and there was no Mirrorball Man or Mr. MacPhisto. I didn't realize that Bono took on different personas until last year. I'm not sure what I would have thought then, but now my impression is I'm glad it's over.

While Achtung Baby is much different from everything prior, all U2 albums are that way. Joshua Tree has a different sound than UF, etc. Achtung Baby was easy to accept because, while different for U2, it was more mainstream.


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Old 04-08-2002, 11:26 AM   #42
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Anne-
Yes the Heart.
DB9
Very Cool!
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Old 04-08-2002, 11:29 AM   #43
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Originally posted by BostonAnne:
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It's funny that you think that POP is a target of ridicule, because from posts I have read about Pop in the past, I've felt that mentioning that I don't really like that album 1) questions my loyalty as a fan 2) indicates that I have bad taste for not liking it!
ANNE!! That is exactly what I've been trying to say! I believe overall more fans dislike it than like it, but most will never admit it or post it in fear of those exact things! Did you read my post in response to hers, about how those who don't like it are always accused of 'not getting it' and being a 'bad fan' and how sickening that is?? DON'T worry about 'not getting it' Anne, as I said a lot of people can get it and still not like it. There is NOTHING WRONG with disliking one of the band's albums! LOTS of very good fans, some of the best, didn't like Pop and that is OKAY!! We all have our own tastes and we aren't going to like everything, just like we don't like the same things on our pizzas. We should all just say what we really think and not be afraid. Your opinion is just as as good as anyone else's!

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[This message has been edited by *Stormy* (edited 04-08-2002).]
 
Old 04-08-2002, 11:30 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by BostonAnne:


While Achtung Baby is much different from everything prior, all U2 albums are that way. Joshua Tree has a different sound than UF, etc. Achtung Baby was easy to accept because, while different for U2, it was more mainstream.


That's true. I had never thought of that before.
Dude, now I'm feeling all warm and fuzzy inside. Man, I'm such a cornball! But you guys rule, you know that?!



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Old 04-08-2002, 11:32 AM   #45
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Ah, something else along those lines I forgot to add...I can see where Achtung Baby was probably easier to swallow because while it was a drastic change for U2, it DID go along with a lot of the other music popping up at the time...

Pop was just an oddball. Nobody in mainstream was really doing what U2 was trying to do with POP, so it came out of left field, sort of.

I can see it now!
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Old 04-08-2002, 11:36 AM   #46
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Originally posted by wertsie:
That's true. I had never thought of that before.
Dude, now I'm feeling all warm and fuzzy inside. Man, I'm such a cornball! But you guys rule, you know that?!

For me it wasn't the 'mainstream' thing. I have never given a rat's ass about what was mainstream and what wasn't. It was just that I LIKED AB and its image, whereas I didn't like POP and its image. As I saw someone else, I forget who, mention, it wasn't the change, but what the change was! As long as it's a good change I don't care. AB is an awesome record, and ZOOTV ruled.

Wertsie, I know you're sick of me, but I see you are still here as well

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[This message has been edited by *Stormy* (edited 04-08-2002).]
 
Old 04-08-2002, 11:40 AM   #47
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Originally posted by *Stormy*:


Wertsie, I know you're sick of me, but I see you are still here as well

I'm not sick of you. I like the way this discussion is going, I really do. Why I am still here, I don't know. I'm literally shaking because I need to eat something, but I just came right home and got on the computer. So pathetic! hehe...And I have a project due in like 4 hours and I need to print it off.

This is unrelated, but I was in the University Bookstore just a bit ago and they have Salman Rushdie's "The Ground Beneath Her Feet"! I wanted to buy it but I didn't have enough money on me...so I'm gonna go back later to get it. Has anyone read it?

Okay, now it's time for Jen to go get some food before Jen passes out! hehe



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Old 04-08-2002, 11:45 AM   #48
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Stormy, I did read all posts and I pretty much said exactly what you did, I just had this stong urge to repeat you! Sorry about that! I really like the food analogy.

wertsie - you are no cornball! When you tuned into U2 you were probably looking for music that was different while a lot of the older fans just couldn't accept such a change. While my kids are growing up, I tend to look for something more mellow and fell into the mainstream a bit more than I did in the 80's. Wake Up Dead Man (I really like that song BTW) just isn't something I want to have on with the kids around.
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Old 04-08-2002, 11:48 AM   #49
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I'm posting so slowly u 2 got 3 posts in before I finished!
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Old 04-08-2002, 11:48 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by BostonAnne:
Stormy, I did read all posts and I pretty much said exactly what you did, I just had this stong urge to repeat you! Sorry about that! I really like the food analogy.

wertsie - you are no cornball! When you tuned into U2 you were probably looking for music that was different while a lot of the older fans just couldn't accept such a change. While my kids are growing up, I tend to look for something more mellow and fell into the mainstream a bit more than I did in the 80's. Wake Up Dead Man (I really like that song BTW) just isn't something I want to have on with the kids around.
I don't even think it was the different music, per se, but maybe it was, to an extent. It just happened that I was 15 (which, now that I look back, is a VERY formative age!) and it was the Popmart Tour. It was magic!

Yeah...."Wake Up Dead Man." LOVE the song, but definitely not for kids!


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Old 04-08-2002, 11:51 AM   #51
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Originally posted by wertsie:
I'm not sick of you. I like the way this discussion is going, I really do. Why I am still here, I don't know. I'm literally shaking because I need to eat something, but I just came right home and got on the computer. So pathetic! hehe...And I have a project due in like 4 hours and I need to print it off.


I'm sitting here doing the same thing! I need to eat something, yet I keep posting!
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Old 04-10-2002, 10:11 AM   #52
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Sorry to bump this back up, but I just wanted to chime in and say that I am an older fan that loves POP.

I think I had a harder time going from JT / RH to AB... I held on to JT with my nails dug in kicking and screaming all the way to AB. Then once I let go and went for the ride, I was never afraid to let U2 take me places again.

If there are a few or even half of a U2 album that I don't immediatly love, I don't sweat it because I know there will always be a few songs that give me gifts so great that I can't possibly pay back for them.

I will never forget opening POP and having the first listen. When MOFO came on ! I ran over, opened up the insert to read the lyrics and realized that the same boy that missed his Mother beyond belief back in 1982 was now a man with children that still missed his Mother, and he was trying to fill a God shaped hole! Think about that, a God shaped hole.... I was heartbroken for him.

Also seeing that the young man of 1983 that seeked peace in his own country, was still seeking peace and answers in 1997.
September
Streets capsizing
Spilling over
Down the drain
Shards of glass
Splinters like rain
But you could only feel
Your own pain
October
Talk getting nowhere
November
December
Remember
Are we just starting again

Anyway I don't know what else to add but that I think ATYCLB and the Elevation tour was salve for many many souls and the band U2 (in all it forms) is a gift from God.

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Old 04-10-2002, 11:42 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by EPandAmerica:
Sorry to bump this back up, but I just wanted to chime in and say that I am an older fan that loves POP.

I think I had a harder time going from JT / RH to AB... I held on to JT with my nails dug in kicking and screaming all the way to AB. Then once I let go and went for the ride, I was never afraid to let U2 take me places again.

If there are a few or even half of a U2 album that I don't immediatly love, I don't sweat it because I know there will always be a few songs that give me gifts so great that I can't possibly pay back for them.

I will never forget opening POP and having the first listen. When MOFO came on ! I ran over, opened up the insert to read the lyrics and realized that the same boy that missed his Mother beyond belief back in 1982 was now a man with children that still missed his Mother, and he was trying to fill a God shaped hole! Think about that, a God shaped hole.... I was heartbroken for him.

Also seeing that the young man of 1983 that seeked peace in his own country, was still seeking peace and answers in 1997.
September
Streets capsizing
Spilling over
Down the drain
Shards of glass
Splinters like rain
But you could only feel
Your own pain
October
Talk getting nowhere
November
December
Remember
Are we just starting again

Anyway I don't know what else to add but that I think ATYCLB and the Elevation tour was salve for many many souls and the band U2 (in all it forms) is a gift from God.

Good to hear from an older fan that likes POP. Thanks for your thoughts!

You know, sometimes I think the BEST U2 albums for me are the ones that I don't immediately take to. I remember for awhile I didn't really listen to Zooropa all that much. But then I would just play it over and over again, and it slowly began to seep into my veins, into my heart.

Same thing with POP. I didn't really like it all that much at first (this was before I first saw the band live, before I REALLY became a fan!). But when my mom went out to Vegas to see the first show, I remember listening to POP over and over and over again, and finally it hit me. An epiphany, and it's still magical.



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Old 04-10-2002, 01:10 PM   #54
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These are some very interesting stories from some very different points of view, and of course I respect them all. I didn't want to say anything here, but since EP and America's post, I feel like my story is almost the opposite of hers! See, I am a YOUNGER fan who didn't care much for POP! Am I weird?

Wertsie, you say your family loved U2, and you were raised on it, like me, and we are the same age! But the reaction was not the same. What did your U2-ey family think of POP? Mine didn't like it, but that wouldn't influence me, I'm my own person and I like what I like and don't what I don't. For me, U2 had literally always been there. I never really thought a lot about them, I just liked them.

I was in high school when POP came out. All the people knew I was "the U2 girl" with the t-shirts, U2 doodled on my notebooks, always quoting songs and stuff. I sure got harassed about POP. Of course most people never noticed U2 or cared one way or the other, but some who were really into music started to bug me about Discotheque. They went "boomcha" at me and did a stupid imitation of U2's imitation of the Village People. They said their new album sucked and they were a bunch of wacked out geeks now. (Most of these kids had thought AB was VERY cool, even years after its release!)

Then something I am not proud of happened- I did not feel the urge to defend the band. Yes, I was sick of being joked on, but, I couldn't disagree with the insults, because I kind of saw their point. I- denounced them. I told the people at school that I "used" to like them, but I agreed with them that the new stuff was kind of bad, they had really changed and I didn't like it. When they asked me if I was still the U2 girl, I did defend them and their old stuff and told them not to let POP ruin their opinion of U2's whole career, and we could still appreciate the other stuff. Well lots of those people only count what's the newest, so they wouldn't listen.

I'm a really big fan again now, and though I admit it takes some things awhile to grow on me, POP just doesn't do a thing for me. It's my least favorite U2 album. I don't hate it, I just don't like it as well as the rest. I'm a really big fan again now, and though I hate to admit it, I was ashamed back then, but now it's a good time to be a U2 fan, and I am PROUD. Like I said, I never would have said I didn't like POP just to avoid being bugged about it if I really didn't feel that way. I believe in standing up for what you believe, and now I defend them wholeheartedly to those who call them "dinosaurs" and "old" and don't give them the credit and respect they have earned. I have some friends my age who like them, but some never will because they are so old, and that is sad but true. I am in nursing school now and I rarely see most of the jerks from high school, so I don't know what they think now. I have kept in touch with anyone I care about. My family really likes ATYCLB and so do I. I hope you don't think I'm terrible, I only thought this was a different story that should be told too. I am the U2 girl, a U2 crazed fanatic, and nothing takes away from that just because there was one small part of their career I wasn't too happy with. Once again I would like to state that I fully understand everyone's personal feelings on this subject, I do not condemn or criticize anyone for anything they've said, because only YOU know how YOU feel- and hope you'll all allow me the same benefit.

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[This message has been edited by SamanthaPuff (edited 04-10-2002).]

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Old 04-11-2002, 02:15 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by wertsie:

I just want to bring this up again, and I'm really curious what people think. Arguably, the change from R&H to AB was a lot more drastic than the one from Zooropa to POP and yet by and large, people don't seem to have as much of a problem with the FIRST transition...Why do you think that is? I mean, I look back at the Mirrorball Man and Mr. MacPhisto, and those guys were SCARY! I'm NOT attacking it by any means, I just want to know what you think...


Hi,

I became a fan in 1985 (I was 13) after seeing the Live Aid performance. Got all the albums released at that point and was a seriously devoted fan from then, thro JT & RH but when AB came out, my devotion faltered a little.

I bought the album and played it to death but for some reason, it just didn't seem to connect the same the previous stuff did. When Zooropa came out, I immediately bought that and fell in love with the title track and a couple of others (Stay & Crashed Car) but didn't like any of the others. Faith was seriously fading...so when Pop came out I didn't even bother buying it.

I don't actually know what prompted me to buy AYCLB behind, cos at the time, I didn't really think THAT much of BD, but for whatever reason, I bought the album and all love, devotion & whatever for the band & the music where def restored (and maybe surpassed)

Around about the same time as they announced the Elevation tour, I changed jobs and ended up working at a place that allows me to listen to music all day. I started playing AB & Zooropa...I started appreciating all of the songs (except The Wanderer, still can't go for that one )...I even then, went out and bought Pop...my reaction on first hearing it??....WTF!!!!...why did I wait so long to buy it???!! I love the album and would now say its poss one of my favs.

My theory on this turnabout, and this is strictly a theory on my own experience, is that whilst U2 were happy to change & evolve, I just wasn't ready for it personally. It wasn't so much that they were making bad music or changing for the worse...I just wasn't open-minded enough to listen to the music and accept it for what it was. I was too stuck in thinking about what it wasn't (ie the 80's stuff).

Nowdays, I don't think they have made a bad album, I love them all in different ways and listen to them all depending on my mood.





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Old 04-11-2002, 02:32 AM   #56
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Oh, no, I feel another tangent coming on. Not BAD. Just feel like I have a lot to say. Not to sound like a broken record, but I'm very pleased with the way this thread has been going. Obviously, U2 is not going to affect everyone in the same way, and I'm so glad that we can talk about this without jumping down each other's throats!

I think my mom was the same as me in regards to POP. At first, she didn't really like it, but then we would play the CD over and over again at home and now we both love it.

I don't remember Live Aid or anything like that. I don't think my mom really "discovered" U2 until JT, but I guess that's the way it was with a lot of people. She had that record and would play it a lot around the house and stuff, and she also had R&H. Yeah, she was a fan, but I don't think she really LOVED them until AB. To her, The Beatles was still the best band ever. All that changed with AB.

It seems like a lot of fans sort of put JT up on a pedestal, and that's fine for them, but I guess it never worked that way for my mom and me. My mom originally bought AB for a friend for her birthday, but after hearing it herself, she decided she had to have it too. AB is the one on the pedestal for us. So maybe that's why POP wasn't such a shock. I don't know. It's hard to say.

But I remember after I saw the band during Popmart, I was wearing my black Popmart shirt to school all the time, and people would always ask me about who those guys were on my shirt! When I told one guy it was U2, I remember he said something like, "Oh, yeah. Didn't they have an album called The Joshua Tree?" and I said, "Yeah, but that was like 10 years ago! POP is the new one!" and he seemed really interested....and I rememer another guy on my bus talking about how he thought the way the band had changed was really cool.

I always feel like I have to defend POP, and I think a lot of that has to do with my English teacher junior year of high school. He was a teenager when JT came out and absolutely HATED POP. He said that the band had "sold out" and we got into many arguments about it. Of course, I tended to took what he said with a grain of salt because he pronounced Bono "BONE-OH" (arg!)! He would occasionally play JT in class, and I told him to play AB, but he never DID manage to bring it to school! But anyway...

Oh, one more thing...My mom and I brought a friend of hers and her daughter (who was a year younger than me) to the Detroit show, and they both loved it. They said they were going to have to go out and buy POP.



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