To the Dissatisfied

[NamelessStreets]

Well, considering the other night I talked to my brother and all his good friends who are computer engineers(and in the genius range)--keep up servers for some of the largest banks the U.S. When I told them what happened for this presale- at the absolute maximum 100,000 going online- they laughed thier asses off and said that was completely ridiculous-espcially considering that 100,000 was the world total- split that in time zones and you have more like maybe 15,000 trying to access tickets at the same time. That's nothing if you have it planned out and as large of organizations as Ticketmaster and U2.com. The problem is plain and simple-- piss poor planning. You still gonnna try to say that no server's can handle that? What a joke.

Well, my cousin works for ticketbastard, and they sold 325,000 tickets for the UK venues alone between 9.00 and 12.00)

 

[Flying FuManchu]

I enjoy all the bitching and moaning threads/posts...it's great entertainment.

That too...

 

[Reggie Thee Dog]

I mean obviously, U2 the band has no "real" control over their image and their daily business operations so they are probably clueless to the massive unrest going on in U2 fandom. The whining helped bring exposure in the media and IMO U2 can't ignore that.

I don't really believe that U2 has no "real" control over their image or a good portion of their business operations, but U2's business is to sell music whether that's via CD's, digital downloads or live concerts. Where they don't have a lot of control is how these products are sold.

My point is does U2 say to Tower Records "sell this format of CD to our most ardent fans and the rest of the customer get this bland one". No, Tower Records puts out the product "they" want to sell and they sell it or not.

Clear Channel and TM have a system too. It might not jibe with U2's. It may ignore U2's altogether, but it's their system good and bad. That is not U2's fault. Oh, the come-back to this is "well U2 needs to deal with other companies". That's not reality friends, U2 must deal with these companies to present their product to the largets number of fans they can and want to.

Pearl Jams '95 tour, which by-passed TM based arenas, was semi-successful, but even Pearl Jam had to concede to the powers that be. I was lucky enough to get tickets to one of those PJ shows, but it was a bitch. U2 fans can try to fight this, but I don't think a small number of U2 fans are really going to win this fight. CC and TM are part of huge corporate hierarchy, which is nearly untouchable in these days and times. Just my opinion.

Face it U2 are stuck in bed with some shady characters, but can someone else come up with a better solution, which will satisfy everyone?

 

[diamond]

i agree w reggie and YahWeh and Napolian Dynomite

love
diamondbruno

 

[maude]

I understand how this all really works, but the reality is that you were promised NOTHING by U2.com other than a chance at the best seats.

You must be more perceptive then most in interpreting the U2.com jargon used in selling memberships to their fans. Perhaps you can help us all out, because from my perspective, some manipulative wording or out-right lies were fed to u2 fans in order to sell memberships.

Allow me to refer you to this post:

http://forum.interference.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1902019#post1902019

I suppose the question that arises is what do they mean by priority booking? It seems to me that they are guaranteeing U2 members priority seating (i.e. the best spots at the best prices) by simply buying a membership and using their code.

And what exactly did they mean when they said that

Propaganda subscribers who join U2.Com go straight to the front of the line when the concert tickets are made available.

Did this happen at all? An outright lie perhaps?

Q - Does it matter when Propaganda subscribers join U2.Com ?
A - All U2.Com members will be given access to buy tickets one week ahead of the general public. The more people in membership prior to the general public sale, the more likely we can guarantee your ticket choice. This offer to Propaganda subscribers puts them first in line if they take up membership of U2.Com - guaranteeing priority ticketing. (When U2 tickets go on sale, there is usually quite a rush!)

I wonder what they meant by this. Sounds like a cheap attempt to sell as many memberships as possible.

 

[diamond]

ohh.-
boo
hoo

db9

 

[ramblin rose]

I thought the article in the LA Times about the debacle was quite interesting. In particular:

"The large number of tickets on eBay," Sobol said, "suggests that somehow scalpers had access to the system in advance of club members."

Industry veterans, however, downplay the likelihood of misappropriated tickets.

"Not with U2," said Gary Bongiovanni, editor of the concert-industry tracking magazine Pollstar. "Some artists out there might be pumping out some tickets to the secondary market, but definitely not U2.

"I honestly think the band recognizes there was a problem and is going to find a way to make it right for all those people who bought into the fan club," he said.

 

[Flying FuManchu]

Quote:
Q - Does it matter when Propaganda subscribers join U2.Com ?
A - All U2.Com members will be given access to buy tickets one week ahead of the general public. The more people in membership prior to the general public sale, the more likely we can guarantee your ticket choice. This offer to Propaganda subscribers puts them first in line if they take up membership of U2.Com - guaranteeing priority ticketing. (When U2 tickets go on sale, there is usually quite a rush!)

Wow, that quote is pretty damning or at the least ridiculous....

 

[elevashn_hj]

What do banks have to do with it? I talked to highly intelligent people who work with servers for a living, and they said that for a company as large as Ticketmaster definitely be able to handle perhaps 15,000 people within a few seconds.

My brother put it another way. The "World of Warcraft," a game server, has up to 3000 people playing simultaniously--and video games take many many times MUCH more bandwidth than a simple webpage and checkout. How can a game site have the bandwidth and a huge company not have it??

As one of those peope who do work in the IT field as a Network Engineer, let me add my $.02 and then you all can resume flaming and add me to your flame list.

When someone designs a network, you look at average bandwidth usage and scale accordingly. You take the outliers out. Ok now that I have used the term outliers, you statisticians can jump in on this. However, if you spell for a living please stay out of this as I cannot spell for shit. Ok back to the subject. Taking the outliers out you then look at average for low usage, midrange usage and peak usage. Then you determine a network structure. (ie: Bandwidth, number of nodes in a cluster, blah blah blah.) Yes for many organizations 15,000 hits is not a huge deal. HOWEVER, we are talking about 15,000 simultaneous hits. Now I know that you dont actually think that we systematically hit it one hit per second. Everyone was refreshing and refreshing. Ok say you are scaled and licensed (keep that in mind too, you do require licensing for each access) for an average peak of 10,000 hits within a few second time frame and you now have 15,000 people. That is 50% over what you scaled for and the network will experience difficulty or simply crash. Now keep in mind that the average user was probably accounting for at least two hits at the same time (I know I was. I had about 6 sessions going, 3 each of IE and Firefox). So now that 15,000 grows to 30,000. Now you are 300% over your scaled capacity.

Ok I just lost interest in this whole thread and am just boring myself. Everyone quit your bitching and hope for the best tomorrow.

Later

HJ

 

[indra]

Wow, that quote is pretty damning or at the least ridiculous....

True. I don't quite know how having more members of U2.com would make it more likely for members to get tickets.... That just doesn't make any sense at all.

 

[plot180]

A few things:
1) U2 did guaranty something, that being access to advance tickets. If a fan tried to log on only to find the Ticketbastard website during the presale and couldn't get at them, then U2 didn't fulfill that aspect of their guaranty. It's entirely possible that it was unrealistic to expect Ticketbastard's website to be able to handle the traffic. If that's the case, then U2 should never have been stupid enough to make such a guaranty. They did it to get more members to sign up, not because they really meant it.
They also guaranteed that the U2.com members who were part of Propaganda before they killed it would have earlier access than the members who had only signed up with U2.com. That apparently didn't happen either.
2) For all the folks who say that it wasn't U2 that did these crappy things, that it was Ticketbastard and FanFuck, I got a question for you: who hired Ticketbastard and FanFuck? It was >gasp!< U2. If you hire a contractor to do work on your house and that contractor decides to subcontract a portion of the work out to another company and the subcontractor screws the job up, it's the contractor's fault. The contractor can't say "don't blame me, blame the subcontractor, it's got nothing to do with me." It was U2's decision to involve FanFuck and Ticketbastard and it's their responsiblity to deal with the fact that those two organizations broke the guaranty that U2 had stated on U2.com.
3) Yeah, there has been a lot of complaining as of late and people who don't really give a crap about getting fucked over, especially by an organization that they had come to trust, could definately be getting tired of this. I could surely see that. However, as pathetic as you feel we complainers are, the people who can only complain about our complaining are even sadder.

 

[ElectricalVoice]

Re: Re: To the Dissatisfied

people have a right to express their views which is a great thing about this forum and why I enjoy being a part of it. If you do not want to hear about people complain about the site or the situation, simply don't open the threads. It's not rocket science you know

The problem is that this goes on in EVERY thread. I open a thread about someone looking foreward to see U2 on the tour, and three posts below you find someone complaining about how he/she DON'T look foreward to it. I understand the dissapointment, but it ruins the mood for many people that HAVE tickets. I don't, but I believe I will eventually.

 

[indra]

Re: Re: Re: To the Dissatisfied

The problem is that this goes on in EVERY thread. I open a thread about someone looking foreward to see U2 on the tour, and three posts below you find someone complaining about how he/she DON'T look foreward to it. I understand the dissapointment, but it ruins the mood for many people that HAVE tickets. I don't, but I believe I will eventually.

Just give it a week and all will be hunky dory again. Really. In just a short time the vast majority of people will be back in thrilled mode and those really truly disillusioned will drop off.

 

[U2girl]

A few things:
1) U2 did guaranty something, that being access to advance tickets. If a fan tried to log on only to find the Ticketbastard website during the presale and couldn't get at them, then U2 didn't fulfill that aspect of their guaranty. It's entirely possible that it was unrealistic to expect Ticketbastard's website to be able to handle the traffic. If that's the case, then U2 should never have been stupid enough to make such a guaranty. They did it to get more members to sign up, not because they really meant it.
They also guaranteed that the U2.com members who were part of Propaganda before they killed it would have earlier access than the members who had only signed up with U2.com. That apparently didn't happen either.
2) For all the folks who say that it wasn't U2 that did these crappy things, that it was Ticketbastard and FanFuck, I got a question for you: who hired Ticketbastard and FanFuck? It was >gasp!< U2. If you hire a contractor to do work on your house and that contractor decides to subcontract a portion of the work out to another company and the subcontractor screws the job up, it's the contractor's fault. The contractor can't say "don't blame me, blame the subcontractor, it's got nothing to do with me." It was U2's decision to involve FanFuck and Ticketbastard and it's their responsiblity to deal with the fact that those two organizations broke the guaranty that U2 had stated on U2.com.
3) Yeah, there has been a lot of complaining as of late and people who don't really give a crap about getting fucked over, especially by an organization that they had come to trust, could definately be getting tired of this. I could surely see that. However, as pathetic as you feel we complainers are, the people who can only complain about our complaining are even sadder.

1) Yes, access to advance tickets - it wasn't a guarantee to get tickets. It's simple maths really - 90 000 members fight, at the same time, for lets say 10% of tickets of 13 US venues that hold 20 000 attendance in average. Those 10% are some GA, some are seats. You didn't seriously think all members would get GA tickets did you?
2) Did U2.com's site block the codes? Did U2.com's site crash on Tuesday? Was U2.com responsible for handling pre-sale? Did scalpers get GA tickets from U2.com?
Ticketmaster and Fanfire are responsible, sure, U2 could chose someone else and they made a mistake, but all the trouble didn't come from them.
3) I can't wait to see some of those people posting in a few months: "Wow! Amazing show!"

 

[indra]

3) I can't wait to see some of those people posting in a few months: "Wow! Amazing show!"

Amazing shows or not, the presale was fucked up big time.

 

[Liesje]

still glad I didn't join the club....

 

[ElectricalVoice]

Re: Re: Re: Re: To the Dissatisfied

Just give it a week and all will be hunky dory again. Really. In just a short time the vast majority of people will be back in thrilled mode and those really truly disillusioned will drop off.

You are probably right, indra. I fully understand the dissapointment also.

 

[U2girl]

.

 

[diamond]

1) Yes, access to advance tickets - it wasn't a guarantee to get tickets. It's simple maths really - 90 000 members fight, at the same time, for lets say 10% of tickets of 13 US venues that hold 20 000 attendance in average. Those 10% are some GA, some are seats. You didn't seriously think all members would get GA tickets did you?
2) Did U2.com's site block the codes? Did U2.com's site crash on Tuesday? Was U2.com responsible for handling pre-sale? Did scalpers get GA tickets from U2.com?
Ticketmaster and Fanfire are responsible, sure, U2 could chose someone else and they made a mistake, but all the trouble didn't come from them.
3) I can't wait to see some of those people posting in a few months: "Wow! Amazing show!"

I love when U2 Girl outsmarts Elvis.

I think some U2 fre the loudest complainers, while the majority are the best in the world.

db9

 

[Popmartijn]

Never said 15K people going for the presale total. I said that 100,000 total subscribers were split into a bunch of different timezones, so it's not like everyone with a presale code was trying to get on at the same time.

Here's an interesting excerpt (regarding this issue) from New York Newsday:
http://www.nynewsday.com/entertainment/music/nyc-u2,0,2168561.story?coll=nyc-manheadlines-music

For those connected with the tour, it's a case of intense demand outweighing the finite supply of tickets.

"I spoke to the Ticketmaster people on Tuesday and they reported over 2 million hits within a very short period of time," said Arthur Fogel, president of Clear Channel Entertainment's TNA Productions division, which is promoting the Vertigo tour. "Obviously this caught everybody off guard, and everything possible is being done to make sure people are satisfied. We're looking at a whole range of options in terms of freeing up more inventory and addressing the technical side of the process."

2 Million hits. That is about 1300% more than the 15K you guessed. Maybe some webmasters from popular sites can reveal how long it takes for them to get 2 million hits, just to put it into perspective...



Marty

 

[U2dork]

Bear with me as I'm sitting here with nothing to do because of a snow day. I've got too much time on my hands at the moment...

Not that this really matters anymore, but I was checking out one of the old threads because I do remember at one point there was mention of guaranteed tickets. Of course, this was only up on the site for all of 2 days before it was changed. I'd like to draw your attention to this thread:
http://forum.interference.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=103428&perpage=15&pagenumber=11

particularly this copy-and-paste quote:

U2.com subscription //
2 tickets to any show
guaranteed! // 25% off
merchandise // exclusive
downloads // sign up now! //

Anyway, I'm not sure why people keep using the example of all 90-100,000 people all vying for tickets to the US or European shows at the same time. Say there really are 100,000 members. Some of these people are in the US and the rest are elsewhere. I'm not sure how to divide this number, I don't think it's 50-50 so I'll say it's 60-40 maybe with 60% in the US. That's 60,000 members in the US, 40,000 in Europe and rest of world. Maybe it's the other way around. Not all of these people actually participated in the presale, as huge chunks of the US and countries like Australia and places in Asia do not have show dates anywhere near them. So that cuts the number down significantly as to how many people SHOULD have been participating in the pre-sale. Additionally, shows went on sale at 10am in different time zones so that, again, SHOULD have cut the number of people who would have participated in the presale.
I honestly think people were participating in the presale who were not supposed to, ie: people were able to hack into the Ticketmaster websites.

Ok. I'm going to go watch the chunks of ice falling from the sky now...

 

[maude]

U2 girl,

Did you read the things I posted? It seems to me that potential u2.com members were lied to by u2.com in order to get more $40 memberships (which $40 to a fan club is outrageous in itself).
Why are some of you not the least bit upset by this?

 

[maude]

And since when did "guranteed priority booking" translate into "an opportunity to participate in a pre-sale".

 

[sallycinnamon78]

Peole dumping tickets in protest? My God that strikes me as insane!!

Whoever's dumping tickets in protest - I dare you to go into the thread in which people are desparately crying out for just one seat, and see how they react. It's highly unfair on others wiothout tickets to just dump them.

 

[plot180]

1) Yes, access to advance tickets - it wasn't a guarantee to get tickets. It's simple maths really - 90 000 members fight, at the same time, for lets say 10% of tickets of 13 US venues that hold 20 000 attendance in average. Those 10% are some GA, some are seats. You didn't seriously think all members would get GA tickets did you?
2) Did U2.com's site block the codes? Did U2.com's site crash on Tuesday? Was U2.com responsible for handling pre-sale? Did scalpers get GA tickets from U2.com?
Ticketmaster and Fanfire are responsible, sure, U2 could chose someone else and they made a mistake, but all the trouble didn't come from them.
3) I can't wait to see some of those people posting in a few months: "Wow! Amazing show!"

1)No shit. That's what I said. However, they were guaranteed ACCESS to getting tickets. If they couldn't even log on to the website, they weren't allowed ACCESS to tickets. I'm not talking about GA tickets, I'm talking about any tickets. Some people who had paid the $40 membership fee weren't allowed on to Ticketbastard's website. I'm not sure how much more simply I can say this.
2)Got a question for you: if a car company makes a car and it has a defective part, who does the recall? Is it the maker of the defective part or the car company? Right, it's the car company. Whomever is at the top of the organization is the one in charge of correcting the screw up. Yeah, Ticketbastard had the system that didn't work correctly but U2 were the ones who hired them. It doesn't matter if U2 didn't directly cause the trouble, they're still responsible for it. Ticketbastard has to answer to U2 but U2 are the ones who have to answer to us.
3)At the rate things are going, I seriously doubt I'll even get a ticket since I'm just not wealthy enough to pay a scalper $1000 for a GA ticket. If you are, lucky you.

 

[U2girl]

1) Yes, access, not tickets. Again, what probably happened was too many people fighting for tickets. If Ticketmaster wasn't prepared for all that traffic, it's not U2's problem
2) You will complain to the car company, but the maker of the defensive part will fix the car. (this works differently though, as car parts are products, and ticket sale is a service)
Exactly, Ticketmaster's system didn't work. Thus, THEY answer to U2, whom they made a deal with and the fans, whom they were supposed to sell tickets.
3) The general sale started this weekend. Who says you will not get GA - or other - tickets at an acceptable price? Remember U2 organisation is getting back tickets from ETS and American express, and additional shows went on sale for 1st leg.

BTW, I'm not from US - but our travel agency is offering Vienna bus ride and ticket for 125 USD.

 

[maude]

1) Yes, access, not tickets. Again, what probably happened was too many people fighting for tickets. If Ticketmaster wasn't prepared for all that traffic, it's not U2's problem

Where are you getting your information from? From what I (and U2dork, if you'll take the time to read his post) read we were guaranteed tickets, not merely access to a presale.

 

[U2girl]

I think Popmartijn's post explains a lot.

 

[maude]

Yes, I did and I fail to see how it has anything to do with the lies fed to U2 fans by u2.com in order to get them to purchase a membership. They must have known that with all the u2.com members they couldn't possibly gurantee everyone of them "priority booking". Yet that is exactly what they did. The fact is they told us that the more people that join as members the more they can guarantee our ticket choice. I cannot understand how you can continue to defend u2.com.

 

[U2girl]

...