To Answer The Last Thread's Question, No (AKA New Album Speculation)

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djerdap said:
To whom are these three songs a highlight? Casual fans, 90's "fanatics", Adam Clayton's hair stylist? I bet a lot of the casuals (or fandom outside the internet) would say Streets, I Will Follow, or With or Without You before Ultra Violet or Crazy Tonight. Sure, a lot of Interferencers love Ultra Violet and consider it a highlight - these belong to the same group that was astonished by Zooropa and some of which attended the South American concerts, stating that the reaction to these two songs was very similar. They were there. You weren't. The two concerts I was at had a mixed reaction to both Ultra Violet and Crazy Tonight, precisely because they didn't seem that familiar.

How do you know what the majority of fans feel about In a Little While? How can you assess whether a certain period of U2's career is overhyped or not? If it is so overhyped, why do two of your personal (I'll say it again: your personal) highlights belong exactly to that period?

Stop contradicting yourself.
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UV, Crazy tonight and EBTTRT ? Pretty much the majority of the crowd, given the audiences response. And since we're talking about shows, the concert I attended had a good response to both UV and Crazy tonight. The latter may not be familiar, but UV is from AB, one of their biggest albums. Most people should know it. So let's get away from the personal opinions -

Now on the other hand we had a tweet (U2gigs.com, I believe) saying "reaction: 1/10" when referencing Zooropa. And this is South America; not exactly fans known for not reacting to U2 live. Maybe this was because most of them don't know the song. But the same could be said for Electric co; and that song took off on Vertigo tour. Or maybe this was because the song has a slow, long intro, and ends too fast after it lifts off with the "and I have no compass" verse (the same could be said for the album version, they could have done one more verse). But then again their choices most of the time this tour were to add real plodding songs like MS, YBR, MLK , Scarlet or acoustic Stuck so compared to those I guess this is an improvement. I just don't think it works live, and apparently, neither did the audience actually seeing the show. Clearly, internet U2 audience feels differently. Not surprising since the set now resembles mini Zoo TV (5 AB songs and Zooropa). :shrug:

Of course a lot of the fans prefer IWF, Streets of WOWY before UV and Crazy. The bigggest hits will always get a big response, but that doesn't mean a less known song won't get a good response.

I know how most fans felt about IALW based on the posts on internet U2 forum(s). It was never regarded as "shit" as you put it. It was always one of the most loved songs off that album. I think it primarily gets bashed because it took the spot of a 90's song. The latter being probably the worst U2 idea to play in a stadium but that's just me.
I can tell a certain U2 period is overhyped because...that's what is happening whenever the internet U2 audience is talking about this period ? Just like a different period gets too much venom.

And I don't see the contradiction in EBTTRT or UV being my personal highlights and the general (over)hype re: 90's U2 in internet U2 fandom. The latter does not exclude the former.




Re: Boots. Both of them had a point. Adam is right that Boots feels like several ideas rolled into one (the verse and the "you don't know how..." part don't fit, and, by the band's own admission, the late addition of "let me in the sound" part) and Bono that Boots feels like near-50 year olds wanted to be hip again, except they failed. I think they genuinely thought they had another Vertigo on their hands with Boots.
 
trevgreg said:
I'm can't really think of another song featured in the ipod ads that had as enthusiastic as a response. So I'd say the song's success is attributable to both the band and the song itself, imo. It certainly wasn't just played in commercials at the time.
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I think Coldplay's Viva la Vida went to Number 1 on the back of an ipod commercial. Both Vertigo and Viva la Vida are GOOD songs there's no doubt about that, but I feel the added exposure from the ipod ads gave them the extra push to be big chart hits.
 
U2girl said:
I think it primarily gets bashed because it took the spot of a 90's song.
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Always some conspiracy theories about the 90's...

It gets bashed because it's a song that does not fit the stage and ruins the flow of the setlist. That's why I used the word "shit" - I don't consider it to be that bad as a song per se, but it's an average song that I just don't care for and I believe it is shit in the context of the setlist, which is something I heard many people say as well. But I won't conclude on the basis of this that the "majority" thinks this song is mediocre. You and I both can't make this assessment. Probably the only exception would be some of the universally loved hits like Streets. It's fair to say that the majority of U2 fans love this song. And I would presume that a lot of the casual audience who goes to a 360 show doesn't have a clue about In a Little While. The fact that it is a slow and simple little ditty being performed on a monstrous stage begging for more rockers won't make it score points with the casuals as Electric Co. did on the Vertigo Tour.

And most people do not know Ultra Violet on 360 concerts, as seen on my two concerts personally and as witnessed on many YouTube videos. The fact that it is a song from one of their most well-known albums doesn't give it that much credibility in 2011, since 20 years have passed, we are deeply in the mp3 era, with a band that already has 3 best of compilations and so on. I was amazed to witness a mute reaction to Until the End of the World of all songs in the first rows - a track that did get a lot more radio play than Ultra Violet and did appear on a greatest hits compilation.

So for the sake of argument, let's differentiate personal choice of highlights with some kind of objective assessment of the tour's highlights just because you feel that way. That's all I'm asking.
 
If people at the concerts don't know Ultraviolet, where are the 15+ million people who own Achtung Baby? Probably the vast majority of the people at the show know In A Little While, too. 10 million + sales for that record, plus god knows how many downloads (same with achtung) indicates that more people have those records than will go to the shows, and if a vast majority of the people who bought those records don't go to the gigs, who is going? People who want to go to the expensive, big show so they can tell all their lame friends about their night out snacking at the Bono concert?

If the audience is unfamiliar with songs on two of U2 biggest records - one of them being accepted as an all-time classic - then there is a big problem with the people who go to U2 concerts. I'd hate to think that they've lost all their fans, ie the people who like the music enough to investigate beyond the hits and buy a record that's always on the "best of forever!" lists, or even a lesser known album like that 7 million selling Zooropa that has 10 children at every used record store, but that's what it seems like.
 
frightening_troll.jpg
 
Hollow Island said:
If people at the concerts don't know Ultraviolet, where are the 15+ million people who own Achtung Baby? Probably the vast majority of the people at the show know In A Little While, too. 10 million + sales for that record, plus god knows how many downloads (same with achtung) indicates that more people have those records than will go to the shows, and if a vast majority of the people who bought those records don't go to the gigs, who is going? People who want to go to the expensive, big show so they can tell all their lame friends about their night out snacking at the Bono concert?

If the audience is unfamiliar with songs on two of U2 biggest records - one of them being accepted as an all-time classic - then there is a big problem with the people who go to U2 concerts. I'd hate to think that they've lost all their fans, ie the people who like the music enough to investigate beyond the hits and buy a record that's always on the "best of forever!" lists, or even a lesser known album like that 7 million selling Zooropa that has 10 children at every used record store, but that's what it seems like.
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Just because people own an album, doesn't mean they know it by heart. Some people have moved on. Some had maybe listened to it years ago for the last time, but they still decided to go to a gig to have some fun. I know both of these groups from personal experience. And there is nothing wrong or illegitimate with that. There is no big problem or big mystery there. There are all kinds of audiences on a stadium gig. Sure, I was disappointed to see people going berserk for Elevation and then crossing their arms for Until the End of the World, and I was pretty much pissed off that the only songs where most of the people sat down in my sector were Zoo Station and The Fly in 2005, but times have changed.
 
trevgreg said:
I'm can't really think of another song featured in the ipod ads that had as enthusiastic as a response. So I'd say the song's success is attributable to both the band and the song itself, imo. It certainly wasn't just played in commercials at the time.
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Before Vertigo, they tended to use what to the general public were far less known, or more 'indie' bands and tracks. Vertigo was the first big track by a big, immediately recognisable band. And the ad was the first (only?) to actually feature the band.

There's a flipside to the Apple success as well - the ad no doubt did well as both an ad for Apple and for U2, but when converting that to airplay and sales, it might well have hurt U2 just as much. Hearing it all the time on the ad might have actually turned people off buying it (overexposure, and being an ad makes it a bit less cool) and radio stations may have been a bit less keen to give it a spin given that it was so closely linked to an ad campaign (Apple can fucking pay for their advertising!)

So the true strength of the iPod success can probably not be measured. Without the iPod ad, it probably wouldn't have been anywhere near as 'big' a song overall. But without it, it might have had more success is measurable areas - charted a little higher, done a little 'better', if not actually being as truly effective.
 
Saracene said:
Well just because people are familiar with the song doesn't mean that they'd automatically be super-excited to hear it live. Not all songs from a popular album are necessarily loved in equal measure.
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My point is about the U2 fan base: do they have any actual fans left - people who like more than the hits, who are familiar with and enjoy a large portion of their albums? It is possible that the reports of people being flat for Zooropa or Ultraviolet are mistaken, that just because people didn't jump around and sing along doesn't mean that they didn't they dig them, but I don't know any U2 fans who don't like those songs.

Do U2 not have an actual fan base anymore? Are the vast majority of their fans, ie. the people who will pay absurd amounts of money to see them, only vaguely familiar with the music and at the show based on brand name recognition?

If I go see a band and they play a song that is rarely played, I'm thrilled.

If you live in Canada, don't forget to vote in two weeks!
 
I paid a lot of money for great seats to see The Rolling Stones on the Bigger Bang tour. Here's my shameful confession - I only own TWO Stones albums - Forty Licks and Exile On Maine Street. When the Stones played numbers like Monkey Man, When The Whip Comes Down and Neighbours I politely applauded, as did everyone else. I couldn't see anyone going crazy for those songs. But the truth was I was waiting for them to play Gimme Shelter, Brown Sugar and Jumpin Jack Flash. And when they did the crowd went bananas.
U2, the Stones, AC/DC, Bon Jovi, Depeche Mode - all have an INSANE number of casual fans who will drain their bank accounts regardless to see a big name group and hear the hits. I don't understand why this concept is hard to grasp.
 
lemonfly said:
Monkey Man, When The Whip Comes Down .
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Awesome songs. You are a lucky person. And you really, really need to get Beggars Banquet, Let it Bleed, and Sticky Fingers. And the London Years.

If you go to see someone with a huge number of hit records, you should expect to hear shit you don't know. Especially if it's off their biggest records.

One thing among many that I don't get is why casual music consumers are drawn to big shows by artists they don't know all that well, and therefore like all that much. The sound is usually suspect and not many people are close to the stage.
 
Hollow Island said:
My point is about the U2 fan base: do they have any actual fans left - people who like more than the hits, who are familiar with and enjoy a large portion of their albums? It is possible that the reports of people being flat for Zooropa or Ultraviolet are mistaken, that just because people didn't jump around and sing along doesn't mean that they didn't they dig them, but I don't know any U2 fans who don't like those songs.

Do U2 not have an actual fan base anymore? Are the vast majority of their fans, ie. the people who will pay absurd amounts of money to see them, only vaguely familiar with the music and at the show based on brand name recognition?

If I go see a band and they play a song that is rarely played, I'm thrilled.

If you live in Canada, don't forget to vote in two weeks!
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I'm not sure why you find this so perplexing. We've been trying to explain this to you for weeks...

With big success and a vast career that covers several different reinventions you're going to have a very large disparate audience. It's pretty simple.
 
Headache in a Suitcase said:
U2 obviously have no fans left. We're all here for the free booze.
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true story: at the 360 DC show, i got tons of free beer from some ladies who lifted it from the VIP tent. they were all like, "hey! would you like some free beer that we lifted from the VIP tent?" and i was all, "i hope they play the Pop album start to finish and if they don't i'm going to complain about it online."
 
i think most would be satisfied by rotating hits from one show to the next (5 or six of them) IMO.
 
Irvine511 said:
true story: at the 360 DC show, i got tons of free beer from some ladies who lifted it from the VIP tent. they were all like, "hey! would you like some free beer that we lifted from the VIP tent?" and i was all, "i hope they play the Pop album start to finish and if they don't i'm going to complain about it online."
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:laugh:
 
Irvine511 said:
true story: at the 360 DC show, i got tons of free beer from some ladies who lifted it from the VIP tent. they were all like, "hey! would you like some free beer that we lifted from the VIP tent?" and i was all, "i hope they play the Pop album start to finish and if they don't i'm going to complain about it online."
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:hi5:
 
BVS said:
I'm not sure why you find this so perplexing. We've been trying to explain this to you for weeks...

With big success and a vast career that covers several different reinventions you're going to have a very large disparate audience. It's pretty simple.
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No shit, Bono. What does that have to do with what I'm saying? Completely irrelevant; you aren't saying anything in response to my questions/points.
 
Hollow Island said:
If people at the concerts don't know Ultraviolet, where are the 15+ million people who own Achtung Baby? Probably the vast majority of the people at the show know In A Little While, too. 10 million + sales for that record, plus god knows how many downloads (same with achtung) indicates that more people have those records than will go to the shows, and if a vast majority of the people who bought those records don't go to the gigs, who is going? People who want to go to the expensive, big show so they can tell all their lame friends about their night out snacking at the Bono concert?

If the audience is unfamiliar with songs on two of U2 biggest records - one of them being accepted as an all-time classic - then there is a big problem with the people who go to U2 concerts. I'd hate to think that they've lost all their fans, ie the people who like the music enough to investigate beyond the hits and buy a record that's always on the "best of forever!" lists, or even a lesser known album like that 7 million selling Zooropa that has 10 children at every used record store, but that's what it seems like.
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Yeah. One would hope most fans in a stadium would recognise a song off a huge seller like AB, or (still a huge seller even with considered downloads) ATYCB.

Not all fans in attendance are kids that only got on board with the "Ipod tune".
 
U2girl said:
Yeah. One would hope most fans in a stadium would recognise a song off a huge seller like AB, or (still a huge seller even with considered downloads) ATYCB.

Not all fans in attendance are kids that only got on board with the "Ipod tune".
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admit it everyone.. you lol'd too...
 
Irvine511 said:
true story: at the 360 DC show, i got tons of free beer from some ladies who lifted it from the VIP tent. they were all like, "hey! would you like some free beer that we lifted from the VIP tent?" and i was all, "i hope they play the Pop album start to finish and if they don't i'm going to complain about it online."
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Funny - that lady gave me beer too. And I was all, "If they play 'Pop' from start to finish, I'll complain online."

No complaints from me so far. :applaud:


:sexywink:

U2girl said:
Not all fans in attendance are kids that only got on board with the "Ipod tune".
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iPod? What the hell is that? That's so 2004.

Time for more free :beer: . :drool:
 
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