The Zoo World Order(Achtung. Zooropa. Passengers. Pop.)

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namkcuR said:
The only song on Pop that they never figured out was If God. DYFL was a solid, solid performance the first show or two of Popmart. The others were obviously very good. Mofo, LNOE, Gone, Miami, Please, HMTMKMKM.

Hey, look, we can agree to disagree. And U2 might still surprise me. Before the Vertigo tour, plenty of us thought we'd never hear Zoo Station or The First Time or Miss Sarajevo or An Cat Dubh/Into The Heart live again, and we were wrong.

Anyway, I didn't start this to be a debate thread. I was just really getting into those records the past few nights and wanted to share/appreciate.
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They figured a lot of Pop out. I'd say IGWSHA and Playboy Mansion were both never figured out. After that, six were figured out live (Discothéque, Mofo, Gone, Miami, IYWTVD, Please), three were better in studio (DYFL, SATS, WUDM), and one was great in both cases (LNOE). In my opinion, anyway. Then, you have HMTMKMKM and North and South of the River, both of which were album worthy. Pop had a lot of potential, was just a little rushed.
 
Yeah, the 90's were my favorite decade for U2 as well. However, even I get tired of hearing them used as a means to bash their efforts in the 00's and to undermine their 80's achievements, so good on you, namkcuR, for keeping it on topic.

Sometimes it really sucks being able to enjoy every decade of U2's music almost equally.
 
You really need to look at last two tours' setlists again if you think they avoid playing 90's songs live. Popmart on the other hand had the grand total of 0 Zooropa songs.

I don't see U2 calling TV stations and banning anything on the 90's albums that aren't AB.
 
Purplereign said:
Shazam :)
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shazam.jpg
 
U2girl said:
You really need to look at last two tours' setlists again if you think they avoid playing 90's songs live. Popmart on the other hand had the grand total of 0 Zooropa songs.

I don't see U2 calling TV stations and banning anything on the 90's albums that aren't AB.
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:applaud:
 
dal975 said:
great post.

one of my eternal frustrations is the fact that the post-AB 90s albums were not appreciated by non-U2ers. Another is how because of discoteque, DYFL & Mofo, Pop was labeled a techno (or at least a rock-techno fusion) album. That just drives me crazy.

The track Zooropa is absolutely brilliant and criminally underappreciated.
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No disrespect meant, but I don't understand this kind of attitude. For me, I couldn't care less if "non-U2ers" (I assume you mean non-U2 fans) like the music or not. What exactly are you disappointed in -- that U2 aren't bigger than they are? I mean, they were only the 1st or 2nd biggest band in the world in the 90s.

I think you're right (as you may be implying) that the post-Achtung albums had some image-confusion in the mainstream due to the lead-off singles. Certainly, U2 deserve credit for advertising their albums with 'The Fly', 'Numb', and 'Discotheque' -- they could have started with 'One,' 'Stay', and 'If God Will Send His Angels' or whatever and held onto the Bryan Adams and Celine Dion fans. But, again, as far as how the average Joe-Schmoe labels the albums, I really couldn't care less.

One more: I know a lot of you -- and Adam Clayton -- love the track, "Zooropa", but I don't really get what the fuss is all about. Yes, it's an ambitious piece of work, some of the sounds are very interesting, and it's a winner overall, but I don't hear anything great about it. More of a mood-setter than a composition, I think.

One more more: I often get the impression (I could be wrong) that a lot of you young'un posters have no sense of U2's popular history. I'm not exactly an old timer myself, but I do remember the band in the 80s. I get the impression that a lot of you discovered U2 around Pop, and when you discovered them and got into them, they had just moved a bit out of the mainstream (esp. in the USA). Subsequently, when they moved back onto mainstream centre-stage with ATYCLB, a lot of you felt betrayed and disappointed. I understand this and I don't hold your youth against you, but some of you need to realize that when you were in diapers U2 were already bigger than Coldplay are now. Any popularity they've had since 1993 is just a bonus, as far as I'm concerned.
 
dal975 said:
one of my eternal frustrations is the fact that the post-AB 90s albums were not appreciated by non-U2ers. The track Zooropa is absolutely brilliant and criminally underappreciated.
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But why do you care? I am always surprised by the fact that a lot of people want that their band is liked by the whole world. I really don't care what the whole world thinks. I am a huge U2-fan myself, but I actually enjoyed it that I was so much into "Pop", while the whole world around me (indeed non-U2ers) didn't appreciate it.
 
Hey..I'm also a 90's lover... I love 80's as well, but 90's are the best years for me in terms of U2s music.

What I don't really agree with here is that some of you are saying that AB was natural step from JT, and that fans who were there before 90s came (I was one of them) expected something like AB. I really couldn't disagree more!! Try to remember seeing video and hearing "The Fly" for the first time. We were all like "what is this...it's great, it's cool, it's good, but what is it..." And than putting cassette (yeah, I bought it on tape that year) and hearing the first riff from "Zoo Station" - it wasn't "what is it?" it was "WTF!?!?! Really!?!? Do I like it? Damn!?!"... and it didn't stop there...
than EBTTRT came and it was different, strange, new.....than "one" and it was like - ok, this I can live with, this is great and even familiar.... than UTEOTW - and again totaly different sound, sonically never done by U2, but so good such a great tune that you had to love it... and it was like that untill the end of side B.

I remember U2 fans being confused, lost...thinking about this new music...but slowly it did grow on us and we couldn't stop listening to it constantly. Except one large portion of U2 fans who declared that U2 are dead, that they lost it after JT, that this is crap etc....

And of course than ZOO TV came and everything became crazy..many people were alienated..they played almost complete AB on the tour, only few old songs which left 80's fans confused and angry....

AB expected? NO WAY!!! And after that they came with Zooropa - even more people alienated. I always thought that POP sold so badly because mainstream fans and large number of old U2 fans were disappointing with Zooropa and it back clashed on POP. I was in Frankfurt, Germany on the day Zooropa came out and there was one guy listening to the Zooropa CD in Virgin Megastore (before it closed down), I was waiting behind him - after 10 minutes he took headphones of and with great disappointment and even disgust turned to me and said "Crap" :))) and I LOVE that cd....

it's better for me to stop writing now because I'll just rumble on with no end in sight :)
 
Marko said:
Hey..I'm also a 90's lover... I love 80's as well, but 90's are the best years for me in terms of U2s music.

What I don't really agree with here is that some of you are saying that AB was natural step from JT, and that fans who were there before 90s came (I was one of them) expected something like AB. I really couldn't disagree more!! Try to remember seeing video and hearing "The Fly" for the first time. We were all like "what is this...it's great, it's cool, it's good, but what is it..." And than putting cassette (yeah, I bought it on tape that year) and hearing the first riff from "Zoo Station" - it wasn't "what is it?" it was "WTF!?!?! Really!?!? Do I like it? Damn!?!"... and it didn't stop there...
than EBTTRT came and it was different, strange, new.....than "one" and it was like - ok, this I can live with, this is great and even familiar.... than UTEOTW - and again totaly different sound, sonically never done by U2, but so good such a great tune that you had to love it... and it was like that untill the end of side B.

I remember U2 fans being confused, lost...thinking about this new music...but slowly it did grow on us and we couldn't stop listening to it constantly. Except one large portion of U2 fans who declared that U2 are dead, that they lost it after JT, that this is crap etc....

And of course than ZOO TV came and everything became crazy..many people were alienated..they played almost complete AB on the tour, only few old songs which left 80's fans confused and angry....

AB expected? NO WAY!!! And after that they came with Zooropa - even more people alienated. I always thought that POP sold so badly because mainstream fans and large number of old U2 fans were disappointing with Zooropa and it back clashed on POP. I was in Frankfurt, Germany on the day Zooropa came out and there was one guy listening to the Zooropa CD in Virgin Megastore (before it closed down), I was waiting behind him - after 10 minutes he took headphones of and with great disappointment and even disgust turned to me and said "Crap" :))) and I LOVE that cd....

it's better for me to stop writing now because I'll just rumble on with no end in sight :)
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I totaly agree with you, there wasnt a naturaly step. It was a huge step. Just look at the reports from the first ZooTV show, old fans was disapointed that they didnt play the old songs, they had change to much...
 
Peterrrrr said:
I totaly agree with you, there wasnt a naturaly step. It was a huge step. Just look at the reports from the first ZooTV show, old fans was disapointed that they didnt play the old songs, they had change to much...
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yeah, that is the memory that first springs to mind when I think about the reception of AB and all things ZOO...
people were put of by technology, by gimmicks. People hated Bono wearing sunglasses all the time, many called for return of stripped-back shows and image etc....

It was a big and great shock for many people, but luckily the music and show were so great that they gained more fans than the lost..
 
Screwtape2 said:
All That You Can't Leave Behind is probably the least U2 sounding album of theirs. If anything they'd have a new name and identity for this decade.
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And that, right there, is why ATYCLB is my least favorite of their albums. That entire Elevation era just did not work for me. And I only liked a handful of the songs from HDDAAB.

Personally, I would love to see the new album be more like the Zoo/Pop era sound. I wasn't old enough to appreciate the glory that was The Zoo World Order (I was 8 when AB came out, and 14 by the time Pop came out), so something similar to that would be a dream come true for me. :cute:
 
phommel said:
But why do you care? I am always surprised by the fact that a lot of people want that their band is liked by the whole world. I really don't care what the whole world thinks. I am a huge U2-fan myself, but I actually enjoyed it that I was so much into "Pop", while the whole world around me (indeed non-U2ers) didn't appreciate it.
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I suppose I spoke to broadly before. You're right, as was the previous poster, that in my earlier post I seemed to imply that I cared whether the whole world or the average Joe Schmoe liked Pop or not, or any other U2 album for that matter. I don't. My frustration arose from a situation that was more personal to me, although probably not unique to me. In my sometimes admittedly overambitous desire for my close friends to share my U2 "fanship" (for lack of a better term), I used to get frustrated when Pop would be dismissed as solely a synthesized-electronic/rock hybrid based solely on exposure to Discotech or Mofo. I wanted to scream...NO!! Listen to LNOE and Gone!

Pop came out when I was a senior in college living with five of my best friends. We were all huge Pearl Jam fans, but I was the only hardcore U2 fan. Pearl Jam's "No Code" came out in 1996, and it became the staple of our music listening. I was hopeful that U2 would follow suit with a equally powerful album in Pop, and while to me it certainly was, it never caught on with my casual U2 fan friends because it was quickly and unfairly dismissed based on the first three tracks and the Discotech video. That greatly frustrated me (on a relative scale of course; I know this is music we are talking about here). The irony is that "No Code" is probably Pearl Jam's most experimental album!

So that's all I meant. I honestly couldn't care less how random strangers around the globe perceive any U2 album. I shouldn't have been so general.

On a related note, has anyone else heard the rumor that the name "No Code" derived from Eddie Vedder feeling insulted when Bono supposedly stated in an interview that Seattle bands like Pearl Jam did not have any true originality, but were simply trying to fit into the "code" or stereotype of grunge music?
 
Marko said:
Hey..I'm also a 90's lover... I love 80's as well, but 90's are the best years for me in terms of U2s music.

What I don't really agree with here is that some of you are saying that AB was natural step from JT, and that fans who were there before 90s came (I was one of them) expected something like AB. I really couldn't disagree more!! Try to remember seeing video and hearing "The Fly" for the first time. We were all like "what is this...it's great, it's cool, it's good, but what is it..." And than putting cassette (yeah, I bought it on tape that year) and hearing the first riff from "Zoo Station" - it wasn't "what is it?" it was "WTF!?!?! Really!?!? Do I like it? Damn!?!"... and it didn't stop there...
than EBTTRT came and it was different, strange, new.....than "one" and it was like - ok, this I can live with, this is great and even familiar.... than UTEOTW - and again totaly different sound, sonically never done by U2, but so good such a great tune that you had to love it... and it was like that untill the end of side B.

I remember U2 fans being confused, lost...thinking about this new music...but slowly it did grow on us and we couldn't stop listening to it constantly. Except one large portion of U2 fans who declared that U2 are dead, that they lost it after JT, that this is crap etc....
Click to expand...

Adam has even said Streets sort of started the whole exploration into techno and dance music. Go listen to Drunk Chicken. You can't tell me that doesn't sound like something from the 90's. A lot of the songs on Achtung Baby seem like a real departure for the band because of production and effects. The early versions of half the songs on the album sound pretty normal for U2 at the time.
 
Screwtape2 said:
Adam has even said Streets sort of started the whole exploration into techno and dance music. Go listen to Drunk Chicken. You can't tell me that doesn't sound like something from the 90's. A lot of the songs on Achtung Baby seem like a real departure for the band because of production and effects. The early versions of half the songs on the album sound pretty normal for U2 at the time.
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funny enough, one of my all-time favorite electronic dance music tracks is a soaring, epic 12-minute remix of Streets...the opening is perfect for setting the mood and building up the intensity until the cathartic explosion of "i want to RUN!"
 
there have actually been many, but I was referring to the one by (generally cheesy) DJ Johnny Vicious. The Oakenfold remix is decent too.
 
Screwtape2 said:
Adam has even said Streets sort of started the whole exploration into techno and dance music. Go listen to Drunk Chicken. You can't tell me that doesn't sound like something from the 90's. A lot of the songs on Achtung Baby seem like a real departure for the band because of production and effects. The early versions of half the songs on the album sound pretty normal for U2 at the time.
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yeah, that's cool, but it's all in retrospect....
only few people heard those early versions, and Adam said that alter on...What I'm saying is that general U2 fans were surprised and didn't expect this at all, let alone saw it as a natural progression.

In retrospect it's easy to find clues in previous songs and it's easy to give insights when everything is done, but the general perception at the time was something totaly different.
 
ClaytonsKitten said:
And that, right there, is why ATYCLB is my least favorite of their albums. That entire Elevation era just did not work for me. And I only liked a handful of the songs from HDDAAB.

Personally, I would love to see the new album be more like the Zoo/Pop era sound. I wasn't old enough to appreciate the glory that was The Zoo World Order (I was 8 when AB came out, and 14 by the time Pop came out), so something similar to that would be a dream come true for me. :cute:
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My thoughts exactly.
 
Marko said:
yeah, that's cool, but it's all in retrospect....
only few people heard those early versions, and Adam said that alter on...What I'm saying is that general U2 fans were surprised and didn't expect this at all, let alone saw it as a natural progression.

In retrospect it's easy to find clues in previous songs and it's easy to give insights when everything is done, but the general perception at the time was something totaly different.
Click to expand...

Yeah, in retrospect you can tell but at the time the effects and intros hide their influence pretty well. My original point was that Achtung Baby was a natural progression of the band maybe not noticeable for the general fan at the time though.

You know it surprises me that more people weren't also surprised by the direction the band took with The Unforgettable Fire. I mean the only War era stuff that hinted towards their new direction was the live version of 40, Be There, Angels Too Tied To The Ground and the violin in Drowning Man. Be There was a rare demo at the time and no fans knew of Angels. Songs like A Sort Of Homecoming, The Unforgettable Fire, Bad and Elvis Presley & America should have shocked the U2 fanbase.
 
Screwtape2 said:
Yeah, in retrospect you can tell but at the time the effects and intros hide their influence pretty well. My original point was that Achtung Baby was a natural progression of the band maybe not noticeable for the general fan at the time though.

You know it surprises me that more people weren't also surprised by the direction the band took with The Unforgettable Fire. I mean the only War era stuff that hinted towards their new direction was the live version of 40, Be There, Angels Too Tied To The Ground and the violin in Drowning Man. Be There was a rare demo at the time and no fans knew of Angels. Songs like A Sort Of Homecoming, The Unforgettable Fire, Bad and Elvis Presley & America should have shocked the U2 fanbase.
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Who says they didn't? I know neither one of us was around in '84 to experience the effects.
 
LemonMacPhisto said:
Who says they didn't? I know neither one of us was around in '84 to experience the effects.
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Also, one reason that the shock may have been lessened was due to the change in producers. I don't think a Brian Eno-produced album being atmospheric and experimental is all that surprising.
 
Screwtape2 said:
You are right of course. From everything I've read though the fan reaction wasn't one of surprise but of confusion for lack of a better word.
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Yeah, it was probably a bit of both. Anytime a band switches gears like that, you'll get that kind of response.
 
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