The Pop and ATYCLB Dichotomy

[karl]

Lately, I have noticed a recurring theme among U2 fans here: the sharply split feelings on the merits of ATYCLB and Pop. It seems that those who consider ATYCLB one of U2's finest albums also believe Pop to be one of the worst, and vice versa.

I think the heart of this split centers on the opinions that POP and ATYCLB fans have for U2's work of the nineties. Pop fans believe the nineties to be the period where U2 produced their best work. In contrast, ATYCLB fans think the 80s work was better, although Achtung was a great album, and ATYCLB represented a return to what they loved about U2. ATYCLB fans see Pop as the defining example of where U2 took a wrong turn.

Now, Pop haters feel a sense of vindication with U2 remixing the Pop inclusions in the Best of. Alternatively, Pop fans can see the inclusion of several tracks from Pop on the Best of as validation of the greatness of Pop. I view the remixes not as evidence that Pop was a failure, but more of the completion of some brilliant ideas. It's like a painter who does a draft of a painting and comes back to it 10 years later with new ideas and finishes the product.

Pop wasn't ready to be finished, maybe now it is. U2 is about big ideas, moods, broad themes, rather than individual tracks. Pop caught a certain sense of pain, darkness, disappointment, anger that no U2 album has been about. Maybe some of the individual tracks weren't as polished as they could have been, but the overall product is stronger than its individual pieces. That could be said for a lot of U2's work, but it is most true for Pop.

Furthermore, with Pop, there was a sense that U2 wanted to create an entirely new, definitive sound for the band. U2 didn't care so much about winning a new generation of fans or satisfying their existing base. ATYCLB is less risky, more comfortable and is not a bad album, but it does not represent U2's ambition of the nineties. ATYCLB lacks that sense of U2 reaching into the unknown and taking a chance that it might fail. I miss that. I think that is why there are so many remixes on the B sides album. U2 saw their B sides as a chance to take their experimentation even further than their albums would permit.

karl

 

[GypsyHeartgirl]

As a notorious Pop hater, and perhaps the only person here willing to label herself as such let me say I do not hate all U2 nineties work, just Pop. I am very tired of people saying ATYCLB was 'safe.' Why? They had no idea how it would be recieved. In the position they were in at the time (coming off the downslide in their career caused by POP) anything was a chance. They were very fortunate to have recovered their glory and legendary status. Pop almost killed that and made them a joke. I don't think ATYCLB was done for any reason other than that was what was in their hearts and minds at the time, and it touched mine. Thanks guys.

Since the other thread was closed before I could say this, I must add that the quote by Zoocifer about 'if you don't see where they were coming from at the time why are you still a fan' was the DUMBEST statement I've ever heard!! First, I DO know where they were coming from, I hated it deeply, which is one reason I despise the entire era. But really, it doesn't matter if a fan sees that or not. Shit, you either like what you see and hear, or you don't. That's all there is to it!!

As a fan of 21 years who likes everything but Pop, and who has had a deep emotional attachment to these guys for years, I resent having my fandom questioned, especially by people half my age who diss more U2 albums than I do.

 

[Zoocifer]

Boo hoo.

I had written out a whole explanation to why ATYCLB is "safe" (dealing around track time and all) but I decided I wouldn't waste my time.

- z -

 

[U2girl]

I dunno - it seems that a lot of people here prefer 90's U2 over 80's U2 and so a lot of people enjoy Pop.

Of course, there's also fans who prefer 80's U2 (and not just the older ones) and don't enjoy Pop.

Though ATYCLB is probably my fave album (and AB my second fave), i also like half of the songs on Pop. It is possible to find good points on both albums IMO, just as there's weaknesses too.

It depends on each person's taste really.

 

[wertsie]

Then there are those of us who love both ATYCLB and POP.

I don't really even have a preference as far as 80s or 90s...I might lean slightly more toward the 90s but that could have to do with the fact that 2 of my top three favorite albums were made then. But the 80s was still a GREAT period for U2...and for music in general, imho.

 

[adamswildhoney]

Then you see you have pple like me who like ALL of their Albums and dont really have faves bc we listen to them all! Dont get me wrong theres some songs that I listen to more often but I listen to them all!

my .02 cents!

 

[Summer~Rain]

Well I'll be a monkey's bare-assed uncle. As soon as one POP thread gets closed, another immediately 'pops' up! I don't know whether to or You people are gluttons for punishment. If this topic were banned several people here might just have to get a life.

 

[wertsie]

Well I'll be a monkey's bare-assed uncle. As soon as one POP thread gets closed, another immediately 'pops' up! I don't know whether to or You people are gluttons for punishment. If this topic were banned several people here might just have to get a life.

I just read your sigy and now I have the song in my head!

 

[U2girl]

Well I'll be a monkey's bare-assed uncle.

 

[Summer~Rain]

Wertsie- Yeah, Summer Rain is one of my favorite songs. I think Elecrtrical Storm is a lot like it and that makes me happy!

U2girl- if you haven't seen it over there in Slovenia, that is a line from "Beavis and Butthead Do America"

 

[jick]

ATYCLB is by no means a safe album. U2 explored sounds they have never been to before with that album. Many people think U2 took the easy way out with ATYCLB, but the fans and the Grammy critics don't think that way. Some people think ATYCLB was JT part 2. But if it truly was, then it should not have been successful. The JT would never sell as much if it were released today to these wave of fans of this era. If ATYCLB only sold a poor 1.3 million copies like POP did, I don't think people would label it safe. It is all just perception and success that makes you all think ATYCLB was safe.

Actually POP was more safe and no-balls because U2 sacrificed their artistic integrity just because they had a tour scheduled and could not cancel or postpone their obligations. Hence, they released POP unfinished. Contrast that to ATYCLB where U2 took their sweet time to finish it, and to the Elevation Tour where U2 actually had the balls to cancel their second European leg.

It's nice to know that instead of being after just the money (they would have made millions with the European tour and riding on the Grammy success and Superbowl,etc) U2 are back to artistic integrity. They actually cancelled all these possible profits from touring by deciding to going back to the studio and remix POP. How's that for artistic integrity? They decided against money just to clean up the cobwebs in their back catalogue of songs.

I expect nothing but major improvements with the new mixes of the POP tracks. Well, I think U2 are just marketing geniuses by labelling this as "new mixes" ...they should just be called what they really are --- "finished versions."

Cheers,

J

 

[KhanadaRhodes]

Well I'll be a monkey's bare-assed uncle. As soon as one POP thread gets closed, another immediately 'pops' up! I don't know whether to or You people are gluttons for punishment. If this topic were banned several people here might just have to get a life.

i know what you mean...

 

[walkon11]

Then there are those of us who love both ATYCLB and POP.

Exactly...both albums were unique and excellent in their own way...to compare the two would be unfair, because the mindframes of the band in those two times were so different. Either way, I love both albums, listen to both regularly, and feel both were strong musical and artistic statements.

 

[Zoocifer]

Enough of that damn sitting on the fence. Pick a side.

- z -

 

[diamond]

I like the fact that both albums contribute to the band's diversity and bring EVEN MORE fans to the 1 table
The table of U2Music

DB9

 

[Shine * Like* Stars*]

Not again! Too much POP!

POP GOES THE WORLD

by Men Without Hats

Johnny play guitar
Jenny play base
ain't nobody gonna take their place
everybody tell me have you heard
Pop goes the world!

Johnny and Jenny get smart it seems
make more money on the movie screen
every little nest needs a bird
pop goes the world!

Every time I wonder
where the world went wrong
end up lying on my back goin ringy dingy ding dong
everytime I wonder if the world is right
end up in some disco dancing all night

Johnny play guitar
Jenny play base
name of the band is the human race
everybody tell me have you heard
Pop goes the world!
-Pop!-

Now could this topic please *pop* and disappear like the bubbles at the end of that video?

 

[wertsie]

Enough of that damn sitting on the fence. Pick a side.

- z -

Why do there even have to be sides? They're both great albums. They're both by my favorite band. That's all I care about.

 

[Tip Top Prince]

Enough of that damn sitting on the fence. Pick a side.

- z -

I'm on the side of "U2 are awesome, thank god for them"

The other side is full of complaining pieces of shit.

 

[bullet the blue sky]

I am unimpressed that the Pop songs are being remixed by Mike Hedges.

 

[jick]

Mike Hedges?

I am unimpressed that the Pop songs are being remixed by Mike Hedges.

Who is Mike Hedges and what are his credentials?

Cheers,

J

 

[jick]

Not again! Too much POP!

POP GOES THE WORLD

by Men Without Hats

Johnny play guitar
Jenny play base
ain't nobody gonna take their place
everybody tell me have you heard
Pop goes the world!

Johnny and Jenny get smart it seems
make more money on the movie screen
every little nest needs a bird
pop goes the world!

Every time I wonder
where the world went wrong
end up lying on my back goin ringy dingy ding dong
everytime I wonder if the world is right
end up in some disco dancing all night

Johnny play guitar
Jenny play base
name of the band is the human race
everybody tell me have you heard
Pop goes the world!
-Pop!-

Now could this topic please *pop* and disappear like the bubbles at the end of that video?

That is one of my favorite songs although I haven't heard it in a long time. Thanks for bringing back some memories.

Cheers,

J

 

[Sicy]

I'm on the side of "U2 are awesome, thank god for them"

The other side is full of complaining pieces of shit.

I second that.

 

[BAW]

I will never understand the "pick a side" mentality. Why do there have to be 2 sides for U2 fans to pick from? Who are we to judge a "true fan" by what U2 album they like or don't like?

Why do those who don't like a certain album (POP or ATYCLB) have to endlessly explain why it was so bad? Why does it matter what the rest of us think?

Why do those who love a certain album (POP or ATYCLB) feel they have to explain to the haters why that particular album was so great? Again, why does it matter?

It's a collection of music for crying out loud, not the cure for cancer. Its not going to matter in the grand scheme of things whether or not you convinced someone that POP was good or ATYCLB was bad or vice versa.

One person's trash is another person's treasure (please don't assume I'm referring to either POP or ATYCLB in that phrase) and we all need to give this subject a rest.

 

[popkidu2]

show me the way to go home
im tired and i want to go to bed
i had a little drink about an hour ago
and its gone...right....to....my....head

*shrugs*

i have nothing really left to say about this topic

and im not sure anyone else does

and yet i somehow suspect

many many many years from now

when were all dead and gone

and a new generation of u2 fans

who never saw them in concert

never knew them while they were alive

will still be having this debate

its enough to make you want to do this



and yes

i do love pop

but i do also recognize

that both the album

and the tour

has its flaws

just like every other u2 album/tour does

its a matter of personal taste probably



~she wore lemon~

 

[Rastat]

Among others, Mike Hedges produced Manic Street Preachers' "Everything must go", one of the best albums of the '90, and "This is my truth, tell me yours", its follow-up.

I don't know what to think about him remixing those POP songs, but I think Hedges' remixes will be more rock-oriented than the original songs...

 

[Saracene]

I adore ATYCLB, but I like POP as well, and IMO both 80s and 90s saw U2 produce some of their best work.

 

[karl]

I don't understand why some people here get so piqued when someone offers a critique of U2.

This is a discussion board. If you don't like discussion of U2's work, then don't come here. This board is DESIGNED so that people can share their thoughts about U2's albums, songs, etc.

That said, unrelenting negativism is annoying and I can understand how that becomes tiring. But, I don't see that here.

Maybe, there should be one section in Interference reserved only for those that just want to offer nothing but unvarnished praise of the band. Then, such people will never see anything hurtful to them. I think we should call it, "Happy to Go Blind": this board is reserved for those that only want to praise U2's greatness; no thoughtful commentary allowed, and criticism, no matter how minor, is prohibited! I am serious.

karl

 

[SamanthaPuff]

That is one of my favorite songs although I haven't heard it in a long time. Thanks for bringing back some memories.

Cheers,

J

Mine too! I remember when I was a little kid, every time that came on MTV I'd be dancing around and singing to it. I think it was more of a kid song, my teenage cousins made fun of it. Remember that big goofy fake snowman on drums, and the fake Elvis and how he came down the big slide with his guitar? The little baby on keyboards? Jenny's ripped jeans and her base wasn't plugged in? What about the looks on the guy's face? The bubbles of course! We have that on videotape with a bunch of other old videos and I watched it just the other night!

 

[daisybean]

I don't understand why some people here get so piqued when someone offers a critique of U2.

Karl, I don't think it's a matter of someone not being able to critique something U2 does. It's more a matter that it turns into a big fight. It is the manner in which some things are discussed that causes the problems.

I know that not everyone is going to agree on everything, nor should they. However, it's a problem when things are said with the sole purpose of being antagonistic.

It is one thing to say "I like The Josua Tree better than Achtung Baby."

It is another thing to say "The Joshua Tree is clearly superior to Achtung Baby. If you disagree with me, you can F@ck off, because I am right and you are wrong."

Of course the second example is a clear exaggeration, however, that is the tone of some of the posts. That is how I perceive the attitude to be of some of the people involved with these threads.

Everyone is entitled to disagree and express that disagreement. However, it can be done in a more civil, polite way.

 

[BAW]

Karl, I don't think it's a matter of someone not being able to critique something U2 does. It's more a matter that it turns into a big fight. It is the manner in which some things are discussed that causes the problems.

I know that not everyone is going to agree on everything, nor should they. However, it's a problem when things are said with the sole purpose of being antagonistic.

It is one thing to say "I like The Josua Tree better than Achtung Baby."

It is another thing to say "The Joshua Tree is clearly superior to Achtung Baby. If you disagree with me, you can F@ck off, because I am right and you are wrong."

Of course the second example is a clear exaggeration, however, that is the tone of some of the posts. That is how I perceive the attitude to be of some of the people involved with these threads.

Everyone is entitled to disagree and express that disagreement. However, it can be done in a more civil, polite way.

Great points Daisy.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and everyone's opinion is valid and important but when a certain subject ALWAYS causes an argument, what's the point of bringing it up again and again?

When it comes to the issue of POP, its usually not a critique or civil discussion that ensues...its usually either "POP sucks and you're stupid if you can't see that" or "POP is great and if you don't like it, you suck too." It turns into something really nasty and divides people.

Intelligent, civil discussions about U2 and their music

Nasty arguments over personal musical tastes