The complexities and subtleties of New York.

The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.

Achtung Bubba

Refugee
Joined
Jun 7, 2000
Messages
1,513
Location
One Nation. Under God.
Well, I've been slowly easing my way back into the forum after a year of being way too busy in college and completely disconnected over the summer, and now I think I can afford to get back into the full swing of things -- at least in so far as being able to post regularly and check some of the more interesting threads.

So consider my hiatus over, and consider this to be my first post-hiatus thread:

I believe U2's "New York" to be one of their most complicated songs ever written.

First of all, by "complicated", I mean sonically and lyrically dense. Soncially dense in that, like "Discotheque", repeated listens reveal sounds you hadn't noticed before -- and, like "With or Without You", there are constrasting sounds and rhythms. Lyrically dense in that, like "Babyface" or "Until the End of the World," there are
hidden meanings; and like "So Cruel" there are ambiguities.

Secondly, by no means does the complexity of the song mean that necessarily I believe it to be the band's best song, or my favorite (although it's close in both counts). But it does make the song very interesting to listen to.

There is actually no obviously systematic way to cover the song, so I'll do so the only way that seems possible: second by second.


0:00

Here, at the beginning of the song, there are contrasting rhythms, much like the contrast in "With or Without You": a slow guitar(?) part against a pretty incessent (albeit quiet) drumbeat. It sounds like morning in the city; the city stretches as it wakes, but a few of its inhabitants are already moving quickly into action. And to add another layer of complexity, the background noise strangely resembles the cooing of pigeons.

0:30

A moment of dead silence, which BRILLIANTLY mimics the startling darkness and quiet of entering a tunnel on the way to work -- the instant disappearance and reappearance of the sun and the radio station.

0:31

The rhythm returns with Adam's bass and a few "liquid" guitar flourishes; the city is awake.

Now, after the longest prelude thus far in the album (to be outdone by "Grace"), the lyrical subtleties:

0:48
In New York freedom looks like
Too many choices


Here, the character (not necessarily Bono, since the song is not necessarily autobiographical) echoes ZooTV's notion of overload and the Passengers' "Corpse (These Chains Are Way Too Long)". Here, he revels in having *almost* too much freedom.

0:55
In New York I found a friend
To drown out the other voices


Here is one of the most ambiguous lines of the song. Taken literally, the character has found someone in the city to be his friend and accomplice in his escape from his normal life. It could also refer to an illicit lover, an affair that becomes his first priority. Or it could mean that (just like the phrase "in you I've found a friend"), his friend is the city itself -- much the way that another character was obsessed found Miami to be "my mammy".

1:10
Just got a place in New York

As Bono observed in the latest edition of Stokes' Into the Heart, this place "could be a shoebox." The fact that the character has an apartment or something -- anything -- is important in that it offers him a starting point for his new life in New York. Further, this line could autobiographical, since Bono did recently buy a New York apartment, but that's useful, too; the line catches people's attention, blurs the line between song and autobiography, and upsets a few listeners. It ultimately leads people to listen more closely.

1:33
Hot as a hair dryer in your face
Hot as handbag and a can of mace
New York
I just got a place in New York


These lines have a production mark worth noting: For the "in your face" and the "and a can of mace..." parts, there is an overdubbing that gives the effect of singing through a bullhorn, found in common use by urban policemen. Beyond that, the imagery of heat, women (handbags), and crime (which necessitates mace) further heightens the dirtiness, sexuality, danger, and ultimately the allure of the city.

1:58
In New York you can forget
Forget how to sit still
Tell yourself you will stay in
But it's down to Alphaville


The phrase to "forget how to sit still" can have two meanings that I see: you can choose to forget, or you have no choice but to forget ("you can forget about it"). Apparently, you can tell yourself you'll "stay in for the night", but you end up on the streets. That's when the music that has finally been building "all day" explodes into the whirling chaos of the city night life.

The chorus is also just an obsession over New York, appropriate to the character's emotional state. It's rhythmically irregular and vocally difficult -- the musical signs of stress.

2:42
The Irish been coming here for years
Feel like they own the place
They got the airport, city hall
Asphalt, asphalt
They even got the police


At this point, the music returns to the still busy, but relatively calm rhythm of "daytime". The references to the Irish may be broad statements, but there are two obvious connections: the Irish "own" the airport named after the Irish American, John F. Kennedy; and there is a long-held stereotype (probably based in some old truths) of Irish cops in northern American cities.

2:56
Irish, Italians, Jews and Hispanics
Religious nuts, political fanatics in the stew
Happily not like me and you


It's first relieving that U2 didn't devolve into the bigotry that Michael Jackson used a few years back. Beyond that, Bono uses terms that have been doubtlessly thrown at U2 by other rock bands: religious nuts and political fanatics. There is a question of how to interpret the last line above: either the other inhabitants are happy that they do not resemble the character; or the character is prejudiced and glad they aren't "like him"; or he revels in the diversity, and thus the opportunity to be himself.

3:10
That's where I lost you
New York


The chaos resumes, signifying the beginning of the second night.

3:45

The end of the second night, and the beginning of the third day.

3:51
In New York I lost it all
To you and your vices
Still I'm staying on to figure out
My midlife crisis


Again, the character could have lost everything to the vices of the city itself. And the "midlife crisis" is another line to bring in the ambiguity of autobiography. The question is, is the character "staying on" at home or in New York?

4:05
I hit an iceberg in my life
You know I'm still afloat
You lose your balance, lose your wife
In the queue for the lifeboat
You got to put the women and children first
But you've got an unquenchable thirst for New York


This is perhaps the most intriguing verse. Bono recalls the imagery of the Titanic, of desparation, loss, and tragedy. There is the loss of "balance" and personal perspective and the "wife", either through divorce or merely emotional separation. The line about "women and children first" harkens back to the Titanic image; it could figuritively mean putting the wife, daughters, and sons into the lifeboats first -- and it could also mean making the family the first priority in real life. Either way, there is a conflict in looking out for the family and satisfying the desire for the city.

4:30

More of Edge's chaos, and the start of the third and final night of the long weekend in New York.

4:45

In the stillness of the evening
When the sun has had its day
I heard your voice whispering
Come away now


Now, the last legitimate lines in the song establish that the musings were all daydreaming -- the desires of the character to leave home for the city -- particularly when everyday life doesn't occupy his mind, when he has the time to dwell on his existence, and when it is presumably just him, the wife and the kids.

The closing establishes the song as being an unfulfilled desire, but it doesn't say whether the character will ultimately embrace or deny the desire -- an ending as ambiguous as "With or Without You" or "The First Time."

5:22

The last "New York", with the Edge chiming in. The last echo re-emphasizes the ambiguous ending and mimics the whispering call mentioned in the last verse. It's almost as if the character can hear the call for the city in the wind chimes at his home.


So there it is. My analysis of one of U2's most complex songs. Responses are indeed welcome.
smile.gif


------------------
- Achtung Bubba

[This message has been edited by Achtung Bubba (edited 09-05-2001).]
 
WOW !
eek.gif


I actually really like that song, not many people do. I love the beginning of it how it starts out all quiet and then blasts into crazy guitar.

Plus Bono mentions Italians... so..

KatieHolmes_anim.gif


------------------
Got The Swing Got The Sway
Got My Straw In Lemonade


Sicy's Website



[This message has been edited by SicilianGoddess (edited 09-05-2001).]
 
WOW, Bubba! great analysis... you wouldn't happen to be (have been?) an English major, would you? very interesting insights! i, too, love that song- and live it is just amazing.

oh, and welcome back! glad you've decided to join us again.
smile.gif


[This message has been edited by Ally (edited 09-05-2001).]
 
I've always been a big fan of U2's more experimental stuff and I love New York.

Your analysis is awesome! I haven't read it yet, but I know it is. And in the next while i will be sure to read it.
 
Wow, that was awesome...

It's great to have ya back Bubba! You've been gone a while--absence makes the heart grow fonder!
biggrin.gif


I have a feeling that It's A Musical Journey will also welcome your return
wink.gif


Wonderful analysis.

------------------
"If I am close to the music, and you are close to the music, we are close to each other." -Bono

[This message has been edited by Achtung_Bebe (edited 09-05-2001).]
 
Wow, wonderful analysis! New York is definitely one of my favs on ATYCLB. Edge does do a great job of creating mood with his guitar.
 
Great, thorough, incisive, analysis.

I happen to adore the song as well, and I totally agree with your thoughtful dissection of the song's ambiguities.

But: Edge's chaos? Yes, the guitar goes through amazing metamorphoses and mood and texture contrasts, but it is also beatifully melodic.
And have you ever heard NY live? It is unbelievalble. Edge just roars!
 
Alright I've read it now.. and I just have to say that I really really enjoyed your analysis.

In Art class I will be doing a major project (read over 50% of the mark for the course) where we pick a theme and mine will be (i'm pretty sure) taking the characters out of songs (mostly U2 no doubt) and painting them based on a specific verse or lines of lyrics, so this was very very cool to read. If you were to do lyrical analysis like this for some other songs I would be hugely happy! In particular Stay and Running to Stand Still, which I want to paint but I'm not really sure where to start. Other songs I'm thinking of approaching visually: Wake Up Dead Man (were you just around the corner/did you think to try and warn her/../is there an order/in all of this disorder), Bad (not sure), Walk To The Water (probably I'm on the outside/ let me in/let me love you).
Where The Streets Have No Name , One, and With Or Without You are also good candidates. I will probably do 8 of them.

Maybe I should give this its own topic though.
 
"New York" is really becoming my favorite song off ATYCLB and I really appreciate hearing someone's in-depth analysis of the song. Both the studio and live version are incredible. Sometimes those lesser-known U2 songs have a way of a grabbing you in the smallest ways. I think of "Miami" the same way. Just something about it...not sure how to even explain it.
 
That was great, thank you. I really love the song. It is one of my top favourites on the record. Live it gave me some of the biggest chills of the evening. I think it has some of Edge's finest guitar work ever--I never get tired of listening to all the nuances. And the words are very haunting. I have never been to New York and I want to go. The song sums up the feel of a big city and the emotions of fear, exultation, power and smallness that many people get from a big city.

The ending of New York brings me back to albums like October and Unforgettable Fire. In fact, it's more Un-Fire-like than almost any other song they've done in over ten years, I think. It's got that mystical feeling of going off into a previously unknown place.



------------------
You say I'm a fool
You say I'm nothing
But if I'm a fool for you
Oh, that's something
 
Cheers Bebe - gotta love ya. But I am downhearted that you did not talk of the simularities that "New York" and "Miami" share.

The artificial drum beat. The sexuality. The booming guitar. The lyrical devices. But the one difference is evident. "Miami" is from a tourist's eyes, "New York" is from a resident's.

~zoo~

------------------
" They had the Vision, but we had the Television " - The Edge

" The greatest lesson you'll ever learn - is to love, and be loved in return" - David Bowie
 
I meant Bubba ... the Achtung thew me off. So sue me.

~zoo~

------------------
" They had the Vision, but we had the Television " - The Edge

" The greatest lesson you'll ever learn - is to love, and be loved in return" - David Bowie
 
First, welcome back Bubba.
smile.gif

Second, great analysis on both, music and lyrics, as usual. New York has intrigued me from the first 30 seconds clip, definitely not an easy piece or a catchy tune, still a great song. I agree that the friend he referres to, in the beginning, is the city itself.
Best vocal performance it?s from BBC Radio 1 and best guitar sound/arrangement it?s from Farmclub, singles Stuck/Walk On, IMO.
Never saw it live, they skipped New York when they performed their showcase in Rio last year, we got TGBHF instead.

------------------
Please sign our petition to bring U2 to Latin America, we deserve to be into the heart:
http://www.petitiononline.com/elevate/petition.html
 
Hey,

Thanks to everyone for the positive feedback (so far
smile.gif
). A couple things to respond to, I think:


No, Ally, I'm actually a computer science major, but my communication skills are purty good, and I tend to write with the same meticulous attention to detail that I apply to my computer programs.

In other words, I'm really anal rententive.

(Or is "anal rententive" hyphenated?
biggrin.gif
)


Awakening: Actually, when I called Edge's guitar work "chaotic", I meant it as a compliment. Some of his best work has the same quality -- "Bullet the Blue Sky", "Until the End of the World", even "The Fly" to a lesser degree. As is usually the case, his sound is very controlled, but the effect is emotionally chaotic.

And I have heard "NY" live: from the "Stuck" single, AND from the first Miami show and the Atlanta show: it's not the typical rock song, but it is mesmerizing.


Skeek: I'm actually not planning on doing analyses of this detail on a regular basis, for two simple reasons: One, it's HORRIBLY time-consuming. Second, these observations about "New York" have been banging about in my head for about two months -- I had no choice but to eventually get my thoughts into the open.

But there's nothing stopping you from writing your own analyses, or at least starting threads where everyone contributed in small chunks.

Oh, and I'd consider "Until the End of the World" for your project. The biblical imagery -- combined with Judas' perspective and perhaps the look of the early 1990's -- would kick.
smile.gif



And Zoocifer: I'm sorry I didn't write more about the "New York" / "Miami" connection, but it simply didn't weigh heavily on my mind. But you're welcome to expound on your ideas in greater detail.


And two more observations about "New York" that don't have anything to do with the sonics or the lyrics:

1. The "New York" image in the liner notes is obviously a reference to NY's nickname of the "Big Apple", but -- as I suggested a long time ago -- I think it may also refer to the temptation of the fruit of the Biblical Garden of Eden.

2. The focus on "New York" may have one more unintentional effect on the song: there may be a subconscious association with the word "new" itself -- an association with the new life that the character wants so desperately to build.

Just a thought.
smile.gif


------------------
- Achtung Bubba
 
The cooing of pigoens? I knew when I read that that it would be a ride from that point on. This song is actually quite dear to me because about six weeks after I bought the new album, I moved to NYC. And I was lucky enough to see the band perform it at Madison Square Garden. So cool. Thanks for the analysis!

------------------
"Things will not be the same in this city for us." -Bono, Dublin, February 1980
 
Great ANALysis 'Bubba.
smile.gif
THat brought me new appreciation for the lyrics, and I love the song to begin with.

One thought that I had: you mention that there are 3 different nights in the song. Hmmm...that sounds kind of like a Friday/Saturday/Sunday night excursion to me. Not very deep, but it makes sense.
 
Wow, great analysis!!!

I LOVE this song.
smile.gif
Just listened to it a few times this morning.

I would offer some more meaningful response, but the old brains are fried from class today.

------------------
BOOM-CHA
 
Actually, J. Swallow, I did *briefly* mention the weekend thing:

"More of Edge's chaos, and the start of the third and final night of the long weekend in New York."

But it was brief: I had already spent too much time on the essay, and I just stumbled across the idea while writing the analysis.

Great minds think alike, huh?
biggrin.gif



------------------
- Achtung Bubba
 
Wow Bubba great review. I can't wait to listen to it again. I love the ending of this song- I love the iceberg /putting women first image. It's so strong and honest of the character- maybe he just doesn't *want* to be second any more. great!

another note, too: you mentioned the cycles of the songs as in days. It could be weeks or months, actually- not just days. There are definite cycles there with no constraint or exact limit on the time. Could even be a couple hours (in which case the character really is a mess!) Makes me think of the Bible and how time is relative or irrelevant? to God.

Thanks for your insights! Very intruiging! Have you written anything like this for Discotheque (I bring up this song b/c you mentioned it early on).

smile.gif


------------------
It's okay, the struggle for things not to say.
I never listened to you anyway


My fanatical U2 webpage: Take Me Higher
 
Originally posted by Achtung Bubba:
2:56
Irish, Italians, Jews and Hispanics
Religious nuts, political fanatics in the stew
Happily not like me and you


I always took this to refer back to the previous line - that the irish in America don't care less (ie it's not an issue) about all the other cultures there - yet in ireland it is often the biggest issue.
The irish in america get on well with their protestent brethren, yet in Ireland it can be so different...its a very complimentary line about multiculturalism - how a place can have so many different cultures and points of view yet everyone gets along so relatively well...

Interestingly, I don't think New York as a song live really sparked the European audiences - it seemed to be a regular at the start and then got dropped more frequently - anyone have an opinion?

PS great to have you back bubba - the quality of posts around here has already risen!


[This message has been edited by zoomerang II (edited 09-07-2001).]
 
Originally posted by Eliv8:
Dont you think that New York has undertones of antidisestablishmentarianism?


how long have you been waiting to shove that into a sentence? it actually was pretty good usage, i just was a bit suprised to see that word, seeing as how it's not a part of many people's regular vocabulary.

thanks for the lyrical interpretations bubba, i never really have liked that song, but now that i listen to it, i like it a whole lot better.


[This message has been edited by blood red edge (edited 09-08-2001).]

[This message has been edited by blood red edge (edited 09-08-2001).]
 
that's a great post.

i would like to add something i don't think was stated here:

considering the sonic difference between the verse and the chorus, my idea was that "New York" may represent the city (and the sense of being lost in it), but to me it also meant the threat of other women. (since Bono's married and lives in New York)

you know, you stay at home, but when you go out, the temptation and the chaos is there. he notices other women too ("New Yooork, New Yooork", "midlife crisis" verse) and he's tempted again and again to endanger his marriage (choruses), but he returns to home and wife ("when the sun has had its day..." verse)- he COULD do it, but he chose not to.

and "living happily not like me and you" line: i always thought it meant-all kinds of cultures live together and get along, why can't we do it? you know-a married couple having troubles.
it can be interpreted either thoughtful or bittered.

------------------
"touch me, take me to that other place,
teach me, love, i know i'm not a hopeless case" - Beautiful day

"be uncool, yes be awkward" - Always

"and you can find your own way out"-Acrobat

[This message has been edited by U2girl (edited 09-08-2001).]
 
Back
Top Bottom