Would EVERYONE 'let go' of the concept that I think none of you ought to like it. I have said SO many times I DON'T CARE IF YOU LIKE IT but just because you do doesn't make it one of U2's best! If you like it so much go play it already but no one will convince me it's among U2's finest lyrical works. Ever.
The album with the best lyrics
- Thread starter Seconds
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
sulawesigirl4
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
So the reasoning would also follow that just because you DON'T like it DOES NOT make it one of U2's worst either, right? I think this is what everyone has been trying to point out. It's an opinion thing. C'est la vie. This is boring.
follower
Refugee
U2Kitten, please, take a look at the page 1 of this thread. Including you, 19 people stated their preferences, with or without explanations about their choices, until Seconds said he/she was surprised that some people had chosen Pop as one of the best U2 albuns concerning lyrics. Then he/she said that maybe it would be good to give Pop another listen, which I'm sure would do no harm to anyone. Except for you, you started all this nonsense, and I'm still to see a valid point for all this hatre towards Pop. You hate Pop, fine. Others love Pop, fine as well. I know I'm repeating myself but everybody need to respect other people choices, it's a matter of taste anyway. We're not professional critics. We're U2 fans. I know I'm here to enlarge my horizons about the band and of course to learn new things or even change my mind about a specific song or album, why not? I'm not the owner of the absolute truth and I don't wanna be. Sincerely, what is the problem if someone ranks Pop as a good album, lyrically speaking?
Oh and I truly hope it's not all about Bono's hair in fact, now that I read some of your posts in PLEBA
Oh and I truly hope it's not all about Bono's hair in fact, now that I read some of your posts in PLEBA
sulawesigirl4
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
Yes, I always believe what the masses tell me is right. It's the American way. If it sells and lots of people like it, it must be good. Hey, I guess Britney Spears IS a great artist after all! Wow. And here I thought it had to do with following your muse and being true to yourself and your art. Nice to know that at the end of the day, commercialism is what determines quality. Oh wait, if you'd listened to POP you might have heard that very idea being mocked! hmmmm.
brettig
New Yorker
there are reviews trashing every U2 album if u look far enough- most of POP's early reviews were stunning, even moreso than ATYCLB's...funnily enough many of AB's early reviews were mediocre and indifferent. Popular opinion only turned against POP cos of the rush to begin the tour and the fact the 1st few shows were basically public soundchecks hehe
Originally posted by sulawesigirl4:
Yes, I always believe what the masses tell me is right. It's the American way. If it sells and lots of people like it, it must be good. Hey, I guess Britney Spears IS a great artist after all! Wow. And here I thought it had to do with following your muse and being true to yourself and your art. Nice to know that at the end of the day, commercialism is what determines quality. Oh wait, if you'd listened to POP you might have heard that very idea being mocked! hmmmm.
Oh good GOD!!! NO!!! I specifically mentioned in one of my post that someone was going to throw up the old "I guess Britney and N'Sync are good because they sell blah blah blah!" and I said that had NOTHING to do with it because we are comparing U2 to U2 among U2 fans and leave the apples and oranges out of it. If you missed that post maybe you disregarded many of my other points too. PLEASE go back and read all I had to say before you knock me again.
sulawesigirl4
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
lol, if you think I'm "knocking" you, then perhaps you need to take a few deep breaths, remind yourself that this is an INTERNET forum, we're discussing opinions, and that if you post something it's fair game. You specifically threw out a comment about poor sales. You snickered over the fact that you found Pop in a bargain bin. I was merely following your injections to their proper conclusion. If it leads to a comparison to Britney, pop music, et al...then so be it. You chose to use sales as an (ahem) selling point (pun intended) against POP. I chose to throw it back at you.
Quite honestly, I find it disturbingly amusing that people can get this worked up over the fact that there are fans out there that would rate POP as one of U2's best lyrical endeavors. Even if it were possible to take a massive poll of "all U2 fans", what would that prove? That the album is inferior? Nope. It's an opinion and that's all it will ever be. There is no right or wrong answer. But if you're trying to prove to me that because "more" people (albeit U2 fans) dislike Pop therefore it's not a good album, I'm sorry but that argument just doesn't stand. It's a matter of taste...and no one ever said that the majority is the arbitrator of that.
As far as going back and re-reading this thread, you must be jesting. It was ludicrous enough the first time around. Quite frankly, I think we can find better things to discuss.
Quite honestly, I find it disturbingly amusing that people can get this worked up over the fact that there are fans out there that would rate POP as one of U2's best lyrical endeavors. Even if it were possible to take a massive poll of "all U2 fans", what would that prove? That the album is inferior? Nope. It's an opinion and that's all it will ever be. There is no right or wrong answer. But if you're trying to prove to me that because "more" people (albeit U2 fans) dislike Pop therefore it's not a good album, I'm sorry but that argument just doesn't stand. It's a matter of taste...and no one ever said that the majority is the arbitrator of that.
As far as going back and re-reading this thread, you must be jesting. It was ludicrous enough the first time around. Quite frankly, I think we can find better things to discuss.
Um, you obviously didn't read them all or you wouldn't have said some of the things you did.
This is true. So why are we both here? We are never going to change each other's minds, so why bother?
Good-bye!
[This message has been edited by U2Kitten (edited 11-15-2001).]
Wow. I never meant for this post to get out of hand. Everyone seems to be picking on U2kitten because of her view. Which I happen to agree with. I know my original post was "tell me your personal favorite album based on lyrics" but the subject went beyond that.
I think the reason U2kitten, others and I feel so passionate about this is because we feel the album is so obviously bad, we can't understand why there is such high disproportion of fans here that adore this album. It's like the movie "Glimmer". Most people hated it, but there is a small proportion who actually liked it. But it would seem strange to go to a movie forum on the net, and find that most people in that forum would pick it as one of their top movies. Does that make any sense?
Anyways.
I think the reason U2kitten, others and I feel so passionate about this is because we feel the album is so obviously bad, we can't understand why there is such high disproportion of fans here that adore this album. It's like the movie "Glimmer". Most people hated it, but there is a small proportion who actually liked it. But it would seem strange to go to a movie forum on the net, and find that most people in that forum would pick it as one of their top movies. Does that make any sense?
Anyways.
It doesn't do any good to try to give them comparisons and analogies, they just disregard it all and still spew right back with the same redundant rhetoric.
Thank you so much Seconds. What you said is so true and it means a lot to me. I appreciate it very much. This really has gotten extreme here. They just jump right in like pit vipers when someone says they don't like POP like it's a sin or something! I only wish more than just a few anti-Pop people would have had the guts to join the fight. Still, POP was a disgrace to U2's brilliance and I will never back down from that. I stand behind everything I have stated 100%.
In case no one has noticed, I am now your official NON-POPtart and proud of it!
[This message has been edited by U2Kitten (edited 11-15-2001).]
Thank you so much Seconds. What you said is so true and it means a lot to me. I appreciate it very much. This really has gotten extreme here. They just jump right in like pit vipers when someone says they don't like POP like it's a sin or something! I only wish more than just a few anti-Pop people would have had the guts to join the fight. Still, POP was a disgrace to U2's brilliance and I will never back down from that. I stand behind everything I have stated 100%.
In case no one has noticed, I am now your official NON-POPtart and proud of it!
[This message has been edited by U2Kitten (edited 11-15-2001).]
Dorian Gray
Refugee
Dont you think you are over-generalizing?
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And I felt like a star...
scatteroflight
Refugee
A thing that worried me about the first reviews of Pop was that some of them gave the album more stars than the review itself warranted. For instance, the Vancouver Sun review concluded "Four of the songs really work" (can't remember which ones) and the others, not that they necessarily sucked, didn't entirely work. And this review gave the album four stars!! One star for each song that worked? If you love the album, you would think that "only four songs really work" is unfair. But if the reviewer really thought that only four songs were genuine successes, then there was no way she should have given the album four stars--more like two. It was almost like she had to give it four stars just because it was U2 even though she didn't really like a lot of the album. I saw similar things elsewhere and it bugged me.
I was also irritated by all the hype for Pop, especially when I didn't think the album lived up to it. My impression was that there was considerably more hype for Pop than for ATYCLB (maybe because it had been four years since a "U2" album.)
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You've got to cry without weeping
Talk without speaking
Scream without raising your voice
icelady
War Child
Originally posted by follower:
U2Kitten, please, take a look at the page 1 of this thread. Including you, 19 people stated their preferences, with or without explanations about their choices, until Seconds said he/she was surprised that some people had chosen Pop as one of the best U2 albuns concerning lyrics. Then he/she said that maybe it would be good to give Pop another listen, which I'm sure would do no harm to anyone. Except for you, you started all this nonsense, and I'm still to see a valid point for all this hatre towards Pop. You hate Pop, fine. Others love Pop, fine as well. I know I'm repeating myself but everybody need to respect other people choices, it's a matter of taste anyway. We're not professional critics. We're U2 fans. I know I'm here to enlarge my horizons about the band and of course to learn new things or even change my mind about a specific song or album, why not? I'm not the owner of the absolute truth and I don't wanna be. Sincerely, what is the problem if someone ranks Pop as a good album, lyrically speaking?
Oh and I truly hope it's not all about Bono's hair in fact, now that I read some of your posts in PLEBA
Oh man that was a cheap shot and I think you know it.
**leaves in a huff **
zoomerang II
War Child
Could we discuss the love hate pop flop relationship elsewhere? This thread is about LYRICS damn you all!!!!!!!
The LYRICS of pop are in my, and many others opinion, great. And this is not restricted to just a few dozen wierdos here!!!!! Gone, starring at the sun, wake up dead man, please - they are all glorious lyrically.
If Pop songs have been so lyrically crap then why have they been discussed so intently in "It?s a musical journey" over the past year?
The only one to have discussed Pop's lyrics in a negative fashion sensibly is Scatteroflight, and that commands my respect.
If you don't like pop lyrics? then why? - fair enough if you find the language use in mofo or playboy mansion pretentious or unstylistic, but who cares if Popmart was a flop or if Pop is found in garage bargain bin. In fact even if someone uses the Pop cover for toilet paper- it has nothing to do with quality of LYRICS we are discussing here (although if anyone does I?ll kill them)!!!
That was my rant for the day, apologies and it wont happen again
[This message has been edited by zoomerang II (edited 11-15-2001).]
The LYRICS of pop are in my, and many others opinion, great. And this is not restricted to just a few dozen wierdos here!!!!! Gone, starring at the sun, wake up dead man, please - they are all glorious lyrically.
If Pop songs have been so lyrically crap then why have they been discussed so intently in "It?s a musical journey" over the past year?
The only one to have discussed Pop's lyrics in a negative fashion sensibly is Scatteroflight, and that commands my respect.
If you don't like pop lyrics? then why? - fair enough if you find the language use in mofo or playboy mansion pretentious or unstylistic, but who cares if Popmart was a flop or if Pop is found in garage bargain bin. In fact even if someone uses the Pop cover for toilet paper- it has nothing to do with quality of LYRICS we are discussing here (although if anyone does I?ll kill them)!!!
That was my rant for the day, apologies and it wont happen again
[This message has been edited by zoomerang II (edited 11-15-2001).]
follower
Refugee
zoomerang II, very well put, you became my new hero.
U2Kitten and whoelse hates Pop, I have been here for a long, long time. I have seen dozen of discussions like this one, envolving simply matters of taste, for Christ sake! There is no such thing as wrong or right when you?re just expressing your preferences, whether is about Pop or Bono?s hair. You cannot forbid me or any other person to rank Pop among "MY albums with best lyrics" list, you simply cannot.
I stand for what I said above, I?m here to discuss and learn about U2 and for that I mean even to give a song or album another listen, maybe to find out what others already did. Being stubborn is never a good move IMO dear.
Ditto, I?m a Pop lover...and a pit viper, LOL. Give me a break.
U2Kitten and whoelse hates Pop, I have been here for a long, long time. I have seen dozen of discussions like this one, envolving simply matters of taste, for Christ sake! There is no such thing as wrong or right when you?re just expressing your preferences, whether is about Pop or Bono?s hair. You cannot forbid me or any other person to rank Pop among "MY albums with best lyrics" list, you simply cannot.
I stand for what I said above, I?m here to discuss and learn about U2 and for that I mean even to give a song or album another listen, maybe to find out what others already did. Being stubborn is never a good move IMO dear.
Ditto, I?m a Pop lover...and a pit viper, LOL. Give me a break.
icelady
War Child
I have been here for a long, long time. That sounds directed at me? Why we are unsure...
There is no such thing as wrong or right when you?re just expressing your preferences, whether is about Pop or Bono?s hair. Again, why does hair enter into the thread. Why we are unsure...
Being stubborn is never a good move IMO dear. That sounds like a threat. Why we are unsure...
Don't mean to digress from the thread so I apologize now and will leave as quietly as I entered and vow not to return again.
Good lord this is ridiculous...
As someone who has just sat on the outside of this discussion (until now) and viewed things objectively, you seem to be contradicting yourself quite a bit, U2Kitten. First of all, you say you really have nothing against people who really like Pop, but then you say that it's ridiculous and stupid to list it as one of the top albums lyrically. You've offered up all of one lyric to support your side, while people on the other side have offered up numerous lyrics supporting their side and you've not responded to those.
This thread is not about which U2 album is the best one overall. It is about which one is the best lyrically. And since people interpret lyrics differently according to their experiences, preferences and personalities, it is clearly wrong to claim that it's ridiculous for people to rank Pop so high on their list.
I could go off on another tangent - one of the reasons a lot of people don't like Pop is because some of the music is such a radical departure from what U2 did before. So if they don't like the music, they're probably not going to be as willing to stick around and really pay attention to the lyrics. Album sales, chart positions, etc...really have nothing to do with whether or not the lyrics are good. Bob Dylan's been putting out albums for how long now - and plenty of albums that had poor sales still had brilliant lyrics on them, poor sales or not. Less appealing music does not mean that the lyrics aren't as good. But that's what you seem to be putting across.
Face it, this is entirely a matter of opinion, and for you to ridicule people for posting their opinions is insulting, especially when you insinuate that the only reason people are doing this is because they're jumping on the bandwagon and not really being truthful or objective about it. There are some silly lyrics on Pop. There are also silly lyrics on Boy, October, War, Unforgettable Fire, Joshua Tree, Rattle and Hum, Achtung Baby, Zooropa and ATYCLB, as well. There are also some very good lyrics on Pop, just as there are on other albums. Just because there are a couple songs with funny lyrics doesn't mean that the rest of the album doesn't have good ones.
You obviously have a very intense bias against Pop. It's sad that you're so biased against it that you just can't grasp the concept that people can honestly and objectively rate the album among their favorites without having some hidden agenda. (And don't say you don't have anything against people who do so, because you've already contradicted yourself on that point numerous times in this thread, no matter how many times you say otherwise)
My 2?.
As someone who has just sat on the outside of this discussion (until now) and viewed things objectively, you seem to be contradicting yourself quite a bit, U2Kitten. First of all, you say you really have nothing against people who really like Pop, but then you say that it's ridiculous and stupid to list it as one of the top albums lyrically. You've offered up all of one lyric to support your side, while people on the other side have offered up numerous lyrics supporting their side and you've not responded to those.
This thread is not about which U2 album is the best one overall. It is about which one is the best lyrically. And since people interpret lyrics differently according to their experiences, preferences and personalities, it is clearly wrong to claim that it's ridiculous for people to rank Pop so high on their list.
I could go off on another tangent - one of the reasons a lot of people don't like Pop is because some of the music is such a radical departure from what U2 did before. So if they don't like the music, they're probably not going to be as willing to stick around and really pay attention to the lyrics. Album sales, chart positions, etc...really have nothing to do with whether or not the lyrics are good. Bob Dylan's been putting out albums for how long now - and plenty of albums that had poor sales still had brilliant lyrics on them, poor sales or not. Less appealing music does not mean that the lyrics aren't as good. But that's what you seem to be putting across.
Face it, this is entirely a matter of opinion, and for you to ridicule people for posting their opinions is insulting, especially when you insinuate that the only reason people are doing this is because they're jumping on the bandwagon and not really being truthful or objective about it. There are some silly lyrics on Pop. There are also silly lyrics on Boy, October, War, Unforgettable Fire, Joshua Tree, Rattle and Hum, Achtung Baby, Zooropa and ATYCLB, as well. There are also some very good lyrics on Pop, just as there are on other albums. Just because there are a couple songs with funny lyrics doesn't mean that the rest of the album doesn't have good ones.
You obviously have a very intense bias against Pop. It's sad that you're so biased against it that you just can't grasp the concept that people can honestly and objectively rate the album among their favorites without having some hidden agenda. (And don't say you don't have anything against people who do so, because you've already contradicted yourself on that point numerous times in this thread, no matter how many times you say otherwise)
My 2?.
This is childish...
This thread should be closed, nothing good will ever come out of it.
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In the beginning, the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry, and been widely regarded as a bad move. --Douglas Adams (The Restaurant at the End of the Universe)
This thread should be closed, nothing good will ever come out of it.
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In the beginning, the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry, and been widely regarded as a bad move. --Douglas Adams (The Restaurant at the End of the Universe)
popkidu2
War Child
hhhmmm.......
1. I can't believe I missed this thread until now
2. U2Kitten....I don't like your attitude, and it's got nothing to do with you not liking Pop....I'm staying away from you....
3. For the record, I do like Pop, especially Playboy Mansion. If there was ever a song that mocked consumerism it is PM....
4. blargh @ this thread for getting so ugly....
1. I can't believe I missed this thread until now
2. U2Kitten....I don't like your attitude, and it's got nothing to do with you not liking Pop....I'm staying away from you....
3. For the record, I do like Pop, especially Playboy Mansion. If there was ever a song that mocked consumerism it is PM....
4. blargh @ this thread for getting so ugly....
Hawkmoon269
War Child
My top 3 albums (lyrics):
1.- Achtung Baby
2.- POP
3.- ATYCLB
PS.
and please, stop bashing follower, she's a very kind person.
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The more you take the less you feel
The less you know the more you believe
The more you have the more it takes today
1.- Achtung Baby
2.- POP
3.- ATYCLB
PS.
and please, stop bashing follower, she's a very kind person.
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The more you take the less you feel
The less you know the more you believe
The more you have the more it takes today
The Wanderer
Kid A
DO NOT CLOSE THIS THREAD, what is it with this "let's close anything that's controversial" mentality???
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weather 'round here choppin' and changin'
surgery in the air...
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weather 'round here choppin' and changin'
surgery in the air...
Originally posted by popkidu2:
hhhmmm.......
U2Kitten....I don't like your attitude, and it's got nothing to do with you not liking Pop....I'm staying away from you....
blargh @ this thread for getting so ugly....
Let's see, "Popu2kid" doesn't like my attitude and it's got 'nothing to do with me not liking POP?' OOH let's see, what else have I said? What else could it be?
BOO!
As far as who's a very sweet person, that depends on who the person is and who they're talking to and what they said. Another matter of opinion.
Dorian Gray
Refugee
Originally posted by U2Kitten:
Let's see, "Popu2kid" doesn't like my attitude and it's got 'nothing to do with me not liking POP?' OOH let's see, what else have I said? What else could it be?
BOO!The mean, evil, scary, wicked, POP-hating U2Kitten is SOOO bad! I'm coming to get you! OOOOOOO!!BOO!
SkeeK
The Original, Rock n' Roll Doggie, VIP PASS
Originally posted by Dorian Gray:
Why must you try so hard to stir up shit?
Maybe it's just her attitude, and it has nothing to do with her not liking Pop either
Originally posted by Dorian Gray:
Why must you try so hard to stir up shit?
Uh,ME??!! WHY for God's sakes am I the ONLY one who gets accused of this when SO MANY including your beloved Follower are guilty? Must be because *GASP!* I don't like POP!Why, I took that boy's post as an attempt to be rude and that's why I made light of it with sarcasm.
No, Skeek, I DON'T believe this has nothing to do with me not liking POP because that's what this is about and that's why you don't like me. I refuse to be made out the villian here. Too many have said too much for that. Of course, it's all selective according to who you like and who you agree with.
If I liked POP I bet you'd all think I was cool and had a great attitude!
I'm really a very nice person who loves U2 very much, I just don't like POP!
[This message has been edited by U2Kitten (edited 11-15-2001).]
The Wanderer
Kid A
I've always been a big fan Mr. Rollins, but your obsession with bashing U2 is getting carried away, really Henry, you need to get over it!!! Pop is a very good album by a great rock band. Now c'mon, once and for all, admit it Henry, you like Pop and you love U2!
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you want heaven, in your heart
but you take what you can get,
cause it's all that you can find
but you know there's something more
tonight, tonight, tonight...
BOOM-CHA!!!!
GypsyHeartgirl
POP for GIRLS
U2Kitten, you have dared to speak ill of POP. You are now damned
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"I've been all over,
and it's been all over me!"
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"I've been all over,
and it's been all over me!"
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