The album seems to be still progressing...

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Well, the difference is it became the third most important album of their career instead of a mere comeback album.

I would argue it was that before 9/11 even happened to a lot of people. It was already being written by the music press and "some" fans as their third masterpiece before 9/11.

I'm not sure about it being a masterpiece, it is a good album, but masterpiece? Not quite. Achtung and JT are the only albums that are masterpieces for me.
 
Well... damn.

September, streets capsizing
Spilling over, down the drain
Shards of glass, splinters like rain
But you could only feel your own pain

I think Ali was the one who pointed out that verse to Bono, hence why it made it's way back into the set list in late 2001. Crazy though.

Mostly, ATYCLB lacks a good second half*. BD-IALW stretch (minus Elevation) is arguably their strongest first half after JT but the album never really keeps up the pace. Nor does it stick with the alleged U2 goes pop direction.

*switching from pop to espresso depresso with WILATW/POE really kills the record. And end with something stronger than Grace.

The "second half" and "stronger conclusion" arguments are often ones I use for NLOTH, but I see where you're coming from a little here. I've never been big on POE and songs like New York can even be a bit miss for me, but I do enjoy that album.
 
Well, the difference is it became the third most important album of their career instead of a mere comeback album.

If you don't count Boy or War or The Unforgettable Fire or Rattle and Hum...

I think you could reasonably debate it being their 7th most important album. But really, it was just the beginning of the 3rd decade.
 
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The "second half" and "stronger conclusion" arguments are often ones I use for NLOTH, but I see where you're coming from a little here. I've never been big on POE and songs like New York can even be a bit miss for me, but I do enjoy that album.

I would argue the second half of NLOTH is near brillant, especially when compared to ATYCLB. Maybe you don't like it, but the atmospheric songs near the end of the album are one of U2's strengths - and they did them brilliantly. In contrast, POE and "Grace" rank along with the sap U2 created then.

If you don't count Boy or War or The Unforgettable Fire or Rattle and Hum...

I think you could reasonably debate it being their 7th most important album. But really, it was just the beginning of the 3rd decade.

Sorry, have to disagree again. "Boy" may have been their first album and from that aspect, important. But it did not catch on and is really only known for one song amongst casual fans. "War" was impactful and perhaps was the album that launched U2 into the U.S. That album is debatable. TUF is one of my personal favorites from U2, but in terms of impact, it simply gave U2 their first Top 40 hit in the U.S. So the song was important, but is the album? R&H hurt U2 more than helped - but that "failure" is what helped create AB. Still, could U2 have done this without some of the trappings of R&H? From interviews, it seems U2 were looking for a shift regardless of how welll R&H did (and the album sold very well).

ATYCLB may not be a masterpiece, but it gave new life to a band some were thinking had run out of ideas and hits. Its success allowed U2 to continue for a third decade! In terms of impact, I would say this trumps most of the albums you mentioned. But in terms of quality, I would argue that it ranks below many of the albums you mentioned.
 
I'd go with Niceman on this. War and The Unforgettable Fire (and probably Boy, for the obvious reason) are all WAY more important than All That You Can Type and Then It's Still a Longer Title.

War, in particular, was huge. Really, it's the album that made U2.

The importance of ATYCLB in U2's career profile seemed high in 2001-2002, but not anymore. In fact, I would argue that if U2 retired today, their legacy would rest on everything up to Pop, and the entirety of their last 13 or 14 years would add nothing significant.
 
The Panther said:
I'd go with Niceman on this. War and The Unforgettable Fire (and probably Boy, for the obvious reason) are all WAY more important than All That You Can Type and Then It's Still a Longer Title.

War, in particular, was huge. Really, it's the album that made U2.

The importance of ATYCLB in U2's career profile seemed high in 2001-2002, but not anymore. In fact, I would argue that if U2 retired today, their legacy would rest on everything up to Pop, and the entirety of their last 13 or 14 years would add nothing significant.

My thoughts exactly.
 
Sorry, have to disagree again. "Boy" may have been their first album and from that aspect, important. But it did not catch on and is really only known for one song amongst casual fans. "War" was impactful and perhaps was the album that launched U2 into the U.S. That album is debatable. TUF is one of my personal favorites from U2, but in terms of impact, it simply gave U2 their first Top 40 hit in the U.S. So the song was important, but is the album? R&H hurt U2 more than helped - but that "failure" is what helped create AB. Still, could U2 have done this without some of the trappings of R&H? From interviews, it seems U2 were looking for a shift regardless of how welll R&H did (and the album sold very well).

ATYCLB may not be a masterpiece, but it gave new life to a band some were thinking had run out of ideas and hits. Its success allowed U2 to continue for a third decade! In terms of impact, I would say this trumps most of the albums you mentioned. But in terms of quality, I would argue that it ranks below many of the albums you mentioned.

So, when you say "important" you only mean popular in 2012? To say Boy is less important than ATYCLB based simply by how many songs on it casual listeners know a full 32 years later is ludicrous.

To suggest that The Unforgettable Fire's impact was limited to Pride is to ignore the way it was the beginning of what many would consider the classic U2 sound. It's also to strangely pretend Bad isn't considered one of the very best song's they've ever written.

Then on R&H you reverse yourself and suddenly don't care how many hit singles an album has? Sorry, but you're not even being consistent. It was a massive commercial success and spawned some of the most popular U2 songs ever.

ATYCLB didn't allow U2 to do anything except sell a whole bunch of records in 2000 and 2001. It lost them a vast amount of credibility which they will never get back. And whether one liked POP or not, it was just one album, I hardly think the band was in danger of not being paid attention to again. I understand that their feelings were hurt that Popmart didn't sell out completely and that the US didn't get the album, but the band was never in the dire situation they felt like they were. NEVER believe their own revisionist history.
 
After Zoo I had a feeling that U2 could do no wrong. I loved POP and was stunned that POPMart did not have the huge success that was Zoo. After the tour it was the first time I felt like U2 may have become irrelevant. I kind of equate it to Mike Tyson losing to Buster Douglas. ATYCLB for me really was from a fan perspective seeing your idols make a huge comeback. I had this feeling of "my band is back"....not that they really went anywhere. But this is after all my band and they were back on top. Must admit that I do not go back to ATYCLB like I do other albums but its importance is there for sure....for me at least. While NLOTH has a couple of weak moments I am still amazed that the boys are still able to create this type of music after all these years. Excited to see what they are dreaming up this go around. I really have no expectations about what is next. so who knows it may just blow us away.
 
I would argue the second half of NLOTH is near brillant, especially when compared to ATYCLB. Maybe you don't like it, but the atmospheric songs near the end of the album are one of U2's strengths - and they did them brilliantly. In contrast, POE and "Grace" rank along with the sap U2 created then.

Sorry, have to disagree again. "Boy" may have been their first album and from that aspect, important. But it did not catch on and is really only known for one song amongst casual fans. "War" was impactful and perhaps was the album that launched U2 into the U.S. That album is debatable. TUF is one of my personal favorites from U2, but in terms of impact, it simply gave U2 their first Top 40 hit in the U.S. So the song was important, but is the album? R&H hurt U2 more than helped - but that "failure" is what helped create AB. Still, could U2 have done this without some of the trappings of R&H? From interviews, it seems U2 were looking for a shift regardless of how welll R&H did (and the album sold very well).

ATYCLB may not be a masterpiece, but it gave new life to a band some were thinking had run out of ideas and hits. Its success allowed U2 to continue for a third decade! In terms of impact, I would say this trumps most of the albums you mentioned. But in terms of quality, I would argue that it ranks below many of the albums you mentioned.

Atmospheric songs can be hit-or-miss for me, especially with U2. The last album didn't do much for me there personally, even though I thought MOS had some great things going for it. But apart for Breathe and maybe Fez from time-to-time, I find a lot of that second half unlistenable. The second half of ATYCLB has a few moments for me that are similar in terms of being weak (POE being one of them), but the highlights there are definitely noteworthy I think.

As for the albums argument, I don't think there's any doubt that those albums set up the band for their long-term success. In that sense, they ARE the most important in that respect. In terms of bringing their music to another generation, I absolutely agree that ATYCLB was responsible for that (and important in that sense).
 
Mostly, ATYCLB lacks a good second half*. BD-IALW stretch (minus Elevation) is arguably their strongest first half after JT but the album never really keeps up the pace. Nor does it stick with the alleged U2 goes pop direction.

*switching from pop to espresso depresso with WILATW/POE really kills the record. And end with something stronger than Grace.

I was already starting to rant about the absurd notion that that album has the strongest first half after JT, but... Espresso depresso?

Seriously? Where do you get this shit from?
 
Nearly all the success of ATYCLB is owed to Beautiful Day, which will go down as one of, if not the, most perfect single U2's ever had, and for me it's still the best song on the album. Without it, the album likely would have been a flop, at least I wouldn't care nearly as much about it. Could you imagine if Elevation or Stuck had been the lead single? I'd rather not.

Anyway as long as Danger Mouse can get the creative juices flowing in Edge, everything else should fall into place for a truly great album, which I hope is released next year. Adam and Larry both kicked some heavy ass on NLOTH, and Bono showed signs of improvement. However Edge for the most part was practically on autopilot, and so many ideas that eventually become songs seem to start with him.
 
Nearly all the success of ATYCLB is owed to Beautiful Day, which will go down as one of, if not the, most perfect single U2's ever had, and for me it's still the best song on the album. Without it, the album likely would have been a flop, at least I wouldn't care nearly as much about it. Could you imagine if Elevation or Stuck had been the lead single? I'd rather not.

I agree with your point, but to suggest Beautiful Day was a "more perfect single" than With or Without You? One? Where The Streets Have No Name? I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For? All I Want is You? Pride? Sunday Bloody Sunday? New Year's Day? Bad?

Eh. I can't agree.

But yes, ATYCLB would be next to nothing without Beautiful Day. This is why I call it their weakest album ever.
 
To some fans especially those in the younger crowd it may very well be!

Besides, there would probably be no Interference as we presently know it without Beautiful Day, since without this song, U2 might have called it quits long ago, and I couldn't imagine life being perfect without Interference (only kidding). In my humble opinion, it's their most perfect single to date, even beating WOWY, but by a very, very narrow margin.

BTW, not to be a nerd but oddly enough Bad was never a single. It almost was, though, wasn't it? Isn't there mention in a book somewhere that it was slated to be the third one off UF?
 
The problem with the argument those making the argument that ATYCLB wasn't one of the most important records of U2's career is that they are typically unable to separate the records importance from their own dislike of it, and 00's U2 in general. Obviously the two having nothing to do with one another.

The argument usually goes something along the lines of "Everything U2 did in the 00's was crap blah blah blah and U2's legacy stopped at Pop". Which I guess is sound reasoning if your only criteria of a records importance is whether you personally liked it and its progeny.

I don't think 00's U2 is their best incarnation, but that doesn't blind me to seeing ATYCLB's incredible and undeniable importance to their career. No, it's not the most important, but it's definitely in the top 3. I'd almost say that those dismissing its importance weren't around back then...to see how U2 almost fell off the radar completely, and weren't the biggest band in the world, and how they'd fallen out of favour with a huge part of the public, and how dispirited they were with the reception to Pop, and how ATCYLB's success was by no means assured...but I know some of them were. Dismissing ATYCLB as merely the start of a the "3rd decade" for U2 displays, sorry, a profound misunderstanding of what was going on with them back then, and operates under the wrong assumption that U2 was going to be successful no matter what.

The massive success of 00's U2, the incredibly popular records, the tours, the huge numbers of new fans, getting played on the radio all the time, Bono's incredible increased stature on the world's stage and yes, becoming the biggest band in the world again, along with everything else that came during that period (including the all important and precious "relevance") was bought with the pop culture capital from ATYCLB.

Of course, we have no way of knowing what would have happened to U2 if they'd, say, doubled down on the direction they were going with Pop. But had ATYCLB not been as successful as it was, U2 would not be what they are today. ATYCLB was the reason, for better or worse, that we got Bomb and NLOTH, along with the tours that came with those records.

Whether you like the music from that period, or any of the other things that went with 00's U2, or wished they'd went in a different direction is completely beside the point.
 
The problem with the argument those making the argument that ATYCLB wasn't one of the most important records of U2's career is that they are typically unable to separate the records importance from their own dislike of it, and 00's U2 in general.
Well, I quite like 00s U2, but I still think ATYCLB is not very important to their career. Obviously, you are thinking that the mainstream popularity it helped extend into the 00s is a hugely important matter. Some of us disagree and think that the seminal albums that made the group are more important. Also, bear in mind that later-career albums that had brief huge popularity usually drop off people's radars quickly. I would say that the luster of ATYCLB has already faded to a large extent.
that doesn't blind me to seeing ATYCLB's incredible and undeniable importance to their career.
Hm. I guess I'm blinded then.
 
If you don't count Boy or War or The Unforgettable Fire or Rattle and Hum...

I think you could reasonably debate it being their 7th most important album. But really, it was just the beginning of the 3rd decade.

The first album and the first big flop don't really belong here. Or pre-JT U2.

The breakthrough album, the reinvention and the comeback. So far, JT, AB and ATYCLB are - love or hate the latter - the three crucial albums.
 
Nearly all the success of ATYCLB is owed to Beautiful Day, which will go down as one of, if not the, most perfect single U2's ever had, and for me it's still the best song on the album. Without it, the album likely would have been a flop, at least I wouldn't care nearly as much about it. Could you imagine if Elevation or Stuck had been the lead single? I'd rather not.

Stuck, IALW or Kite would have been solid singles.

NYD and Pride did just as much for War and UF :shrug:
 
I'd go with Niceman on this. War and The Unforgettable Fire (and probably Boy, for the obvious reason) are all WAY more important than All That You Can Type and Then It's Still a Longer Title.

War, in particular, was huge. Really, it's the album that made U2.

The importance of ATYCLB in U2's career profile seemed high in 2001-2002, but not anymore. In fact, I would argue that if U2 retired today, their legacy would rest on everything up to Pop, and the entirety of their last 13 or 14 years would add nothing significant.

Not at all. U2's legacy will be JT, AB, and ATYCLB. The Americana breakthrough, the irony reinvention and the pop comeback.

And reinveting stadium rock with Zoo TV -Popmart - 360.
 
if anyone really thinks U2 would have continued after ATYCLB if the performance of that album had been the same as POP's,
have not been paying much attention the last 30 odd years
 
ATYCLB didn't allow U2 to do anything except sell a whole bunch of records in 2000 and 2001. It lost them a vast amount of credibility which they will never get back. And whether one liked POP or not, it was just one album, I hardly think the band was in danger of not being paid attention to again. I understand that their feelings were hurt that Popmart didn't sell out completely and that the US didn't get the album, but the band was never in the dire situation they felt like they were. NEVER believe their own revisionist history.

Ummm, it allowed them to still be around and not completely go off the map at the age of 40. It allowed them to get a fresh start, and get a whole new generation of fans. It allowed them to be at the top of the world for the third time, when most rock bands their age were/are either dead, broken up, or dried up creatively. It made them relevant again when their music was a perfect match for the grieving nation after 9/11.

NEVER believe the hype from the haters.
 
ATYCLB didn't allow U2 to do anything except sell a whole bunch of records in 2000 and 2001. It lost them a vast amount of credibility which they will never get back. And whether one liked POP or not, it was just one album, I hardly think the band was in danger of not being paid attention to again. I understand that their feelings were hurt that Popmart didn't sell out completely and that the US didn't get the album, but the band was never in the dire situation they felt like they were. NEVER believe their own revisionist history.

This is quite possibly the most stunningly wrong post I've ever read on here. Which is saying something.
 
Obviously, you are thinking that the mainstream popularity it helped extend into the 00s is a hugely important matter.

Um, yeah. It was that same so-called "mainstream popularity" that allowed them to extend into the 1990's as well. Actually, it was "mainstream popularity" that pretty much got them past War. So yeah, it's "hugely important".

When I'm talking about a records importance, I'm referring to the importance in their career....not how much you like, or respect, the type of music they're making at any given time.
 
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