Songs of Songs, Books & Fat Puns - New Album Discussion #8

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A part of me feels like a Vegas residency would be something Larry would want to be in on, considering his Elvis obsession. On the other hand, he might also think it’s the dumbest shit ever.

It’s both fun and frustrating to speculate on this band’s future. I’d never expect a “roadmap” to announce their comprehensive plans, but something similar - more concrete than sound bites in articles with limited context - would be nice to start shoring up what to expect. Whatever they end up doing in the next few years, I just hope they’re able to see things through in a way that suits all of them. And, of course, that they have fun doing it.

No matter what happens, I fully expect tickets to be completely unobtainable.
 
Uhm. He needs surgery and likely wont be there in 2018 live. Does it sound to you like it matters how many shows happen ?

Depends what the injury is, what the fix is, how long rehab is etc. Back pain can be a funny old thing which flares up and down, can be aggravated by certain things etc. Also depends on the timeline.

It's just a weird comment to be made given the very recent public acknowledgement of the possible Zoo TV-themed shows in Vegas. But like Headache says, it's all just speculation and I'm sure has lots of moving parts...
 
My biggest issue with the WaPo piece is this:

View attachment 13360

A take so bad I didn’t even notice it was credited to the wrong album until just now.

They flipped the albums around; in the previous paragraph they referred to Songs of Experience as the album they put in everyone's iTunes account.

trying to wrap my head around this logic...

it's stupid to think about the end game because they're only 60. also larry is dying and one line in an article means he absolutely won't be available until 2037, with no wiggle room whatsoever, even though a gig at the end of next year has been teased as recently as last week.

Well, there's more to it than those extremes:

Depends what the injury is, what the fix is, how long rehab is etc. Back pain can be a funny old thing which flares up and down, can be aggravated by certain things etc. Also depends on the timeline.

For all we know, the surgery isn't just so Larry can play to the demands of a tour, but maybe he's in daily pain to begin with and it's interfering with the rest of his non-band life. And I think it's fair to say that even with surgery, continuing to put that strain on his body via touring is going to make the problem come back again at some point.

So it may not be a general "aging" thing but a specific chronic ailment that he might not want to keep aggravating, and would opt to quit sooner rather than later.
 
People need to chill. There is 10 months until the provisional dates for Vegas shows to start. Larry probably spoke like most people do, and that is cautious about setting expectations in uncertainty. If he is going to get surgery, then it will be soon. He isn’t going to wait 4 months and truncate recovery times and push the shows if they have been talking recently about them happening.
 
So we've just been given some pretty big information today: U2 concerts for 2023 are UNLIKELY. We need some time to let that sink in, a fanbase wide freakout is only natural. Clearly whatever timeline was rumored or possibly in the works has been re-thought. That's fine, the most important thing is Larry's health. Hopefully he is able to get the help he needs and can get back to where we all want him to be!!

His other comments are concerning. I take it to mean he's not happy about some of the business decisions being made, and that he seems to be taking somewhat of a stand against whoever is trying to impose this dictatorship. I can't help but wonder if he has been given a timeline for his surgery and recovery process, and it will interfere with the band's plans for the Vegas shows. Ergo, the new management team is trying to get U2 to play the shows without Larry. I'm sure the planning for this is pretty far underway at this point, and a lot of money is on the line. Aerosmith had to get a replacement drummer for a bunch of their Las Vegas residency shows, and I would hate for U2 to be compared to them. The average fan doesn't care who is on drums at a U2 show, but the fanbase definitely does. It would hurt ticket sales for sure if it weren't all 4 of them. Plus I don't think they would do that to one of their own, unless he gave his blessing.

But one thing is clear. If 2023 is out for live shows, then the time has come to RELEASE SOME MUSIC!!! Seriously, give us an EP. Give us SOA. Give us SOS. GIVE US SOMETHING!!!!!!!!
 
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To be fair - Aerosmith was one of many acts playing the Park MGM Theater, and the Park MGM Theater is just a normal old performance hall, albeit a very nice one.

This is the most technologically advanced concert venue ever created - by a country mile. So yea, I'm assuming there are some pressures there.

But some good points are made about Larry's other comments, about the benevolent dictatorship and all.
 
To be fair - Aerosmith was one of many acts playing the Park MGM Theater, and the Park MGM Theater is just a normal old performance hall, albeit a very nice one.

This is the most technologically advanced concert venue ever created - by a country mile. So yea, I'm assuming there are some pressures there.

But some good points are made about Larry's other comments, about the benevolent dictatorship and all.

Right, the U2/Aerosmith situations are Apples/Oranges. U2's new management team are somehow affiliated with this new Sphere venue. I get wanting them to open the venue. But there are other acts they could get to open the venue with similar fanfare.

I think the most shocking part about all of this is Larry saying "If they're gonna play shows, it's gonna be without me!" He's speaking about it as if it's a possibility that is actually being considered. Who knows, hopefully more info comes out soon. If U2 were to tour without Larry, I would still go see them if they came to my area, knowing that it wouldn't really be U2 but a Bono/Edge/Adam tour with some other guy. But there's no way I'm buying a ticket to Vegas to see anybody else play drums for U2.
 
Read on current situation:

- benevolent dictatorship stuff is an indicator that the change of management is happening and the whole band haven’t been happy with the way Guy O has run the show. Larry refers to “we” being uncomfortable, as in the band.
- delays to the album planned for early 2023 are likely due to Larry’s health.
- Vegas shows still very much unknown and probably largely dependent on his recovery.
- unreasonable guitar music as song vs ep vs album points to this being new things being recorded as a stop gap because the album planned is being delayed until they know more about Larry.
 
I can't help but wonder if he has been given a timeline for his surgery and recovery process, and it will interfere with the band's plans for the Vegas shows. Ergo, the new management team is trying to get U2 to play the shows without Larry.


No fucking way would the band consider this and if Dolan or Azoff raised it, I hope they told him to fuck steeeee-raight off.

Bono talking about making the band his main priority moving forward made it seem like at least one guy in the group is sick of distractions (Larry) and chasing pop hits (Adam).

Whatever internal issues needed to be hashed out already were or they wouldn’t be talking about it.
 
I wouldn’t buy a ticket to any shows without Larry. Any other band I probably wouldn’t care if it was a different drummer, but this is U2.
 
Yes you would you kidders.

If it's a situation of "look, we signed a contract to do this prior to knowing the extent of Larry's injuries, so we're doing it with Larry's drum tech, with Larry's blessing, and he'll be back with us on your next year"?

You bet your ass I'd go.

I'd be cool with that situation. Would I go to the trouble of planning a trip to Vegas to see 3/4 of U2? Not sure at this point.
 
Yes you would you kidders.

If it's a situation of "look, we signed a contract to do this prior to knowing the extent of Larry's injuries, so we're doing it with Larry's drum tech, with Larry's blessing, and he'll be back with us on your next year"?

You bet your ass I'd go.

In that case the correct thing to do would be to cancel the show and take the financial hit.
 
Long new thread w more quotes by writer of the story. Must read.

https://twitter.com/geoffedgers/status/1597415021780545536?s=46&t=Hctb1RAU4UKLREY8jtoQmw

He’s not leaving or quitting the band.
He has elbow and neck injuries that need treatment.
He’s eager to play live again.

Now here’s my question - he said he figured out his body was breaking down during the pandemic. So why didn’t he get surgery this year or last year? Why wait? His NY home is 40’ miles from HSS - the world’s best orthopedic hospital.

That’s the sole inconsistent thing. In all of this. Even 2 years of intense PT would get him to 2022 for surgery. Why wait?

This explains the acoustic remakes for sure.

Ps. I’m a doctor and have suspected for a decade he has neck and arm issues like most drummers. It has not exactly been a mystery and band has alluded to it in the past. Remember the arm braces he wore a few tours back?

The controversial Taylor Hawkins Rolling Stone article quoted Chad of RHCP taking about how much of a toll drumming takes on the body and how it was killing Taylor. Anyway, between that Taylor …. And Larry saying he doesn’t want to go out like Phil Collins did….explains a lot.
 
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I wouldn’t buy a ticket to any shows without Larry. Any other band I probably wouldn’t care if it was a different drummer, but this is U2.

Same.

Yes you would you kidders.

If it's a situation of "look, we signed a contract to do this prior to knowing the extent of Larry's injuries, so we're doing it with Larry's drum tech, with Larry's blessing, and he'll be back with us on your next year"?

You bet your ass I'd go.

I don't think this is a realistic situation, because U2's team (management, lawyers, etc) wouldn't lock four sexagenarians into a contract where there wasn't a clause for health/injuries to give them an out, especially when the shows are that far in advance and when one has an ongoing injury situation.

But going with your fantasy scenario, I agree with Gonna Run, there's no way I'd attend any Larry-less shows. Hell, I cancelled my fan club membership, demanded a refund and skipped the SOE tour because I didn't appreciate how much they fucked up the pre-sale codes.

I've been lucky enough to see the band on 7 consecutive tours from ZooTV through JT30, with multiple shows on all of them post-2000, so everything is gravy at this point. I don't need to see them minus one limb.

From everything I've read, I'm not sure these guys could even look each other in the eyes, let alone the fans in the audience, touring without one of the core four. They aren't just like any other band that does this replacement thing so casually.
 
No?

https://twitter.com/geoffedgers/status/1597416047346274305?t=01OdMef1cRXJoCT6opKcJg&s=19

I think the potential Achtung Baby shows, and the thought of possibly doing them either without Larry or with Larry in a reduced role, is less about not having a contractual out in case of health scare, but more because there's only one chance to be first in a venue like this, and that seems to be something that a band like U2 truly value.

And if Larry is okay with it, I'm not sure why others wouldn't be.
 
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I'll put those here for easier reading:

First, I interviewed Larry on Zoom earlier this month. He was gracious and thoughtful. When I asked a question, he typically paused to think in silence before responding. I got the sense he appreciated the chance to speak in a story about the band he essentially founded.

I did not ask about his physical issues. He volunteered them. He said that he had been told, in the past, to rest or get work done and take time off. Instead, he pushed himself to perform. He does not want to now. He wants to fix his issues. Because he wants to drum again.

"I really miss the audiences. I miss that interaction even though I'm sitting behind a drum kit ... My body is not what it used to be physically. Like next year, I won't be performing live next year. I don't know what the band's plan is. There's talk of all kinds of things.”

Larry has issues with his neck and elbows. We talked about how sad it was to watch Phil Collins so frail and damaged performing on the last Genesis tour. Larry is not, as he put it, “Happy clappy.” He likes a bit of tension. He never said he was leaving U2 or retiring.

Another Larry quote: “I have lots of bits falling off, elbows, knees, necks, and so during Covid, when we weren't playing, I got a chance to have a look at some of these things. So there's some damage along the way."

"So I'd like to take some time, which I will do to get myself healed. And I really enjoy playing and I enjoy the process of playing and being in the company of creative people. I enjoy that. I don't care if that's big or small. It's a bit like the sprout looking for water."
 
Perhaps Larry has already had some surgery, and there's more work to be done? Sounds like the damage is rather extensive, and he wants to get it taken care of before he enters old age, which is smart.

I can't imagine the rest of the band performing without him, unless as stated before, it's done with the intention that Larry will be returning at some point when he heals.
 
No?

https://twitter.com/geoffedgers/status/1597416047346274305?t=01OdMef1cRXJoCT6opKcJg&s=19

I think the potential Achtung Baby shows, and the thought of possibly doing them either without Larry or with Larry in a reduced role, is less about not having a contractual out in case of health scare, but more because there's only one chance to be first in a venue like this, and that seems to be something that a band like U2 truly value.

And if Larry is okay with it, I'm not sure why others wouldn't be.


Well I don't buy it. I think there's no way in hell they would set that precedent; a shiny new toy isn't bigger than the integrity of the band. They'd sure like the PR of doing something super cool there before anyone else, but not at that cost.

But you're more than welcome to come back here and say "I told you so" if they actually do this Sphere residency without him.
 
Well I don't buy it. I think there's no way in hell they would set that precedent; a shiny new toy isn't bigger than the integrity of the band. They'd sure like the PR of doing something super cool there before anyone else, but not at that cost.

I think we're also probably over-estimating the value of being the Sphere's debut act. While I have no doubt the venue will be cool as hell, the vast majority of people aren't ever going to visit it, and will just know it as "that arena in Vegas" without much other context. Whatever PR is gained by playing at this venue, it'll be drowned out by "is U2 breaking up???" media attention.
 
I think you’re vastly overplaying their current cultural significance and the media’s interest in the stability of their line up. Drowned out? If they make any statement explaining it then it’s a non-issue for 99.999% of people.
 
There’s been a bit more shared from the author which should be peoples mind at ease who were worried about the future of the band in general, that wasn’t my worry based on the article. But it does still suggest no vegas. It’s still very strange though his wording which really does suggest there’s plans for the band to play without Larry. The only thing I can think is maybe it’s for promoting SOS there’s some other plans like tv appearances, one off type shows that feature perhaps Bono’s solo tour line up with Edge and Adam but no larry. In promoting SOS it wouldn’t be as big a shock not including Larry based on the stripped back nature of the songs and if it wasn’t big shows in general either.
 
"I really miss the audiences. I miss that interaction even though I'm sitting behind a drum kit ... My body is not what it used to be physically. Like next year, I won't be performing live next year. I don't know what the band's plan is. There's talk of all kinds of things.”

That's the line which is weird and can be read a couple of ways. Does it mean the band might play live without him? Or does it mean there's just no agreed plans as to what they're doing next year (so haven't even had the discussion about playing without him)? Because as we know, they do like a good soundbite in an interview (about AB-themed shows in Vegas) without actually thinking it through :)
 
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Yes you would you kidders.

If it's a situation of "look, we signed a contract to do this prior to knowing the extent of Larry's injuries, so we're doing it with Larry's drum tech, with Larry's blessing, and he'll be back with us on your next year"?

You bet your ass I'd go.

Absolutely! Presented that way, I'd go and a lot of people here saying they wouldn't go would also go.

Granted, two totally different situations, but when they absolutely needed that dry run for the Zoo TV Sydney filming to go ahead, they went without Adam. They then continued the rest of the tour (only a few shows, but still) with substantial questions over whether the band could go on with how bad Adam's addictions had gotten. I don't have it in front of me, but I believe they did seriously consider booting him and going on as being an option.

So while I agree 100% that U2 can't just replace members at will like say, Van Halen or AC/DC could (so long as they had Eddie and Angus), I don't make the leap to this idea that they would never entertain playing if they're down a man. Especially when that man is in the rhythm section and most especially if he's blessed this and it's understood as a stint on the disabled list rather than a departure for other reasons.

Most importantly, as you said a few pages back, we are getting ahead of ourselves here! It is very unlikely these physical ailments and procedures to remedy them are new in the last couple weeks. The opening date of the venue itself is still very much up in the air.

I kind of see this like the big article Bono wrote somewhere when he was all laid up from the bike accident. Early January 2015. He said "this will be all the communication I can muster for early 2015" and everyone freaked and thought the I&E tour and everything else was in jeopardy.

I know Larry didn't say "early" but he also didn't qualify what "playing" would look like. Can't do a traditional U2 tour or can't do a handful of shows in one venue, likely with doctors who are retained and can stay in place with him?

On a deeper level, this is just another reminder for me that everything we get from U2 is gravy now. I want 10 -15 more years as much as anyone, but people need to come to terms with the fact that we are in overtime! Have been for quite some time now. U2 have been as prolific as any band their age could be expected to be in this last decade. The OL/Invisible era, SOI, SOE, I&E, E&I, JT17& 19. Reworking these songs through the pandemic. Having SOS done and now gearing up for what I'd still put money on as being a 1-2 punch of back catalog shows (Vegas Sphere) and a brand new album/tour cycle.
 
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