Songs of Ascent - Part III

[BVS]

Well if you think about it, Unforgettable Fire is pretty similar to what they are talking about...

Mostly atmospheric songs with not so traditional structures and then one very obvious(probably one of U2's first) single.

 

[dan_smee]

yeah exactly, take pride out of TUF and that is what most thought SOA was describing, add Pride, and that is kinda what Bono is saying now

 

[Vlad n U 2]

Well, you can tell U2 are in the mood of making more "atmospheric" and "meditative" music with the work on Songs of Ascent and the Unforgettable Fire remaster.

 

[dan_smee]

2 things to keep in mind re dates for SOA

1) After they had to rush Pop out by setting a start date for the tour before the album was finished, they have decided to take their time to make sure records are completed before any deadlines so as not to suffer from rushing. HTDAAB and NLOTH took so long because they made sure they were done

2) A number of the SOA songs were laid down during the NLOTH sessions. Whether in the can (EBW, Kingomd presumably) or in demo form (Winter), they have a huge amount to be starting from.

Bearing these in mind, I am sure they wont rush this release and try and put it out this year (see the Pop point). They do, however have an album 75% complete or thereabouts (guess) so that time will be considerably reduced.

I still think we can expect it in March 2010. They have months to finish it after the American leg, and given it is nearly done, Im sure they will push it in that time. Reading back Bono's comments, I think he is saying more that he wishes one of the tunes they have is going to be a radio hit, rather than they want to write a radio hit before they put it out.

Overall, I am confident of seeing SOA before the 3rd leg of the tour starts

 

[Vlad n U 2]

2 things to keep in mind re dates for SOA

1) After they had to rush Pop out by setting a start date for the tour before the album was finished, they have decided to take their time to make sure records are completed before any deadlines so as not to suffer from rushing. HTDAAB and NLOTH took so long because they made sure they were done

2) A number of the SOA songs were laid down during the NLOTH sessions. Whether in the can (EBW, Kingomd presumably) or in demo form (Winter), they have a huge amount to be starting from.

Bearing these in mind, I am sure they wont rush this release and try and put it out this year (see the Pop point). They do, however have an album 75% complete or thereabouts (guess) so that time will be considerably reduced.

I still think we can expect it in March 2010. They have months to finish it after the American leg, and given it is nearly done, Im sure they will push it in that time. Reading back Bono's comments, I think he is saying more that he wishes one of the tunes they have is going to be a radio hit, rather than they want to write a radio hit before they put it out.

Overall, I am confident of seeing SOA before the 3rd leg of the tour starts

Pretty much agree with what you said here, Dan.

You can basically rule out an album release this year, as during that time they'll be at it working as hard as they possibly can. And during the time they'll be working i'm hoping that they'll dish out some beach clips for us, it's not unlikely.

 

[dan_smee]

beach clips

 

[Vlad n U 2]

We've got batches of them many times before, why not after this leg. Come on U2 if you're reading, dish out some juicy beach clips to us on a plate.

I will now resume the delightful drooling over the thought of more beach clips ...

 

[shart1780]

SoA will not be coming out for a while. I guarantee it.

 

[dan_smee]

^ based on what, and what will you give me if it is out early next year for breaking that guarentee?

If you were a business I would sue the shit out of you for false advertising

 

[djerdap]

They do, however have an album 75% complete or thereabouts (guess) so that time will be considerably reduced.

You base this on what? There are three songs we know about that are possible candidates for the record (Kingdom of Your Love, Every Breaking Wave, Winter). I remember I've seen Thank You For the Day on that list of tracks in one of the studio pics, so that makes 4 (even though that's more of a Bono/Lanois track, but they've probably decided to do it as a U2 track). I presume and hope that All My Life (I Wanted to Sound Like Bon Jovi) will remain buried with the Rick Rubin sessions. Mercy is probably already a long gone outtake, like She's Gonna Blow Your House Down.

Point is that we're not 100% sure that they do have enough songs right now to have another record (no matter what Bono says - again, check out what Adam had to say about his idea of a "song"), and they had worked on 10 NLOTH songs for 2 years - I mean, the beach clips that had leaked in the summer of 2008, Crazy Tonight excluded, were very similar to what came out in the end. I'm pretty sure that they thought they had 75% of the record many times, but the release date was still miles away. I for one haven't got the slightest idea what they were doing 2 years (90 mixes of Breathe, Stand Up Comedy were 6 different songs according to Eno and Lanois), so to suddenly change their approach from the last 4 records will take quite a bit of effort. Don't get me wrong - it would be nice to see that they finally produce a record without overanalyzing things, but history is regrettably often saying otherwise.

 

[dan_smee]

based on the fact that they keep teling us they were unsure whether to release it as two long EPs, Bonos last wuote was they had 12 songs for it, and th songs you mention (TYFTD, KOL, EBW, Winter, Mercy)

 

[mikal]

one thing i wonder is how many songs were in the "maybe pile". i remember either Bono or The Edge mentioning this "maybe pile" when asked why they put WAS on the album instead of Winter. i can't remember where the article is from, but i remember that they made it seem like there were a good handful of finished songs that didn't make the album. also, keep in mind that there haven't been any B-Sides with this album, which can only be a good sign that they didn't want to waste any of the songs.

 

[Gonna Run 2 U]

I just want to hear disappearing act already, when is that damn song gonna leak?!

 

[AiRMaRcI9o0]

Mercy is probably already a long gone outtake

did someonez say Mercy??!?!!1?!1??!

 

[djerdap]

based on the fact that they keep teling us they were unsure whether to release it as two long EPs, Bonos last wuote was they had 12 songs for it, and th songs you mention (TYFTD, KOL, EBW, Winter, Mercy)

Two long EPs does not make for two albums. And let's not forget the fact the ATYCLB sessions had a lot of songs as well, 3 of which (Love and Peace, Sometimes and Original of the Species) were out 4 years later (come to think of it, City of Blinding Lights was another work in progress that had its origins during the Pop sessions).

It's all relative. As soon as they start turning words and theory into some real studio work, then we'll be able to tell if they're gonna keep their promises. Bottom line is - it's one thing to hype new material in the interviews, other thing is to work on it.

 

[mirrorballman]

I think "I want to live" is along the lines of the sound they would like to achieve on SOA.

Did all of you miss the Rolling Stone article? Bono's speaking of wanting to tackle the charts again with pop songs 'n stuff! Only talking about pop songs pop songs pop songs.

I highly doubt SOA will be anything near that sound. I think NLOTH was as experimental as they'd get at the moment, and since the album didn't live up in the charts as they wished it would they'll fall back on "vintage U2."

Hope I'm wrong, but let's see!

Oh yeah, and one thing: Everyone wants "different," but I'd rather have a great "classic" U2 album than experimental "different" album with GOYB look-alikes. "Different" doesn't always have to be good, I'd be perfectly fine if they can produce some great hits again.

 

[mikal]

I just want to hear disappearing act already, when is that damn song gonna leak?!

i'd give it a week to a week and a half. release date is the 23rd. i check out WhatCD twice a day. when it does, i'll share it.

 

[mikal]

Two long EPs does not make for two albums. And let's not forget the fact the ATYCLB sessions had a lot of songs as well, 3 of which (Love and Peace, Sometimes and Original of the Species) were out 4 years later (come to think of it, City of Blinding Lights was another work in progress that had its origins during the Pop sessions).

It's all relative. As soon as they start turning words and theory into some real studio work, then we'll be able to tell if they're gonna keep their promises. Bottom line is - it's one thing to hype new material in the interviews, other thing is to work on it.

Brian Eno going into the studio recently to have a listen to the tracks is a very good sign.

 

[djerdap]

Brian Eno going into the studio recently to have a listen to the tracks is a very good sign.

Was this confirmed? I remember reading an article which stated that Eno is set to return with U2 in studio, which was debunked soon enough. I'm not sure if that was the same source (probably not)...

 

[mikal]

Was this confirmed? I remember reading an article which stated that Eno is set to return with U2 in studio, which was debunked soon enough. I'm not sure if that was the same source (probably not)...

yes. U2 said that Brian Eno had gone back in the studio and listened to the tracks. as far as when and where, they didn't give the specifics. source was the Rolling Stone article.

 

[lazarus]

I still think we can expect it in March 2010. They have months to finish it after the American leg, and given it is nearly done, Im sure they will push it in that time. Reading back Bono's comments, I think he is saying more that he wishes one of the tunes they have is going to be a radio hit, rather than they want to write a radio hit before they put it out.

Overall, I am confident of seeing SOA before the 3rd leg of the tour starts

I agree with much of your reasoning, but one thing I'm wary about with regard to a March release date is that McGuinne$$ is going to point out sales of the last two albums released in the spring and then the last two that were released in the fall, and put up a big fight. A big difference in numbers, even if the two lower-selling ones were more adventurous.

While it wouldn't make sense to release SOA after the tour is already over, if the songs aren't really tailor-made for the live format (which makes sense, if they're more atmospheric) then does it really matter? Maybe the big single is released in time for it to get recognized when it's played at the show, but the album doesn't actually come out until later. Don't forget they will technically still be touring for the current album, and aren't going to jettison more of these big songs to make way for more experimental/ambient ones. They also aren't going to retire several more warhorses to make room, or extend the length of the show. So something's gotta give.

If we're lucky, the band compromises and puts it out in the summer RIGHT before the tour starts. It doesn't really matter because most of the tickets are going to be sold before the end of this year anyway, from what we're seeing so far.

 

[Gonna Run 2 U]

Doesnt the band really make their money from touring? A fresh new single for a new leg of the tour would certainly boost ticket sales and possible extra dates (thats if the single is a hit as bono wants it)

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

I'm not trying to provide evidence, these are all opinions based on my observations about the band and their evolution of sound throughout their history.

Firstly, i didn't say Beautiful Day was a dumbed down song. I think its a pop masterpiece and will go down as the song they're remembered most for this decade. I just think they're "chasing the dragon" so to speak, trying to recapture that "high" when Beautiful Day put them back on top, and while there's nothing wrong with obviously trying to top yourself musically, i think (remember me here thinking) that they're still trying to top Beautiful Day for all the wrong reasons. It seems they want a song that's going to be more universal, more optimistic, more anthemic, another stadium song and a vehicle for Bono to run through the audience and get down on his knees and seem Christlike in the way he comforts the world and puts a giant band-aid around it, healing us all temporarily in the midst of darkness. (love run on sentences). So, while what i just wrote may seem ridiculous to you, perhaps insane, it's just the impression i get from them these days. That they're more into the superficial benefits of a hit single than the actual music contained in that single. And that they're still to this day trying to get a single to top Beautiful Day, and i got news for you, they haven't. Magnificent comes the closest, and i think it's a better song, but in the end it wasn't recorded correctly. It could've soared, transcended, but the final result for me was just merely good.

1. How do you know they are searching for a single to specifically top "Beautiful Day", a single that peaked at #19 on the HOT 100 AIRPLAY chart in the USA? Why not "Staring At The Sun"? That was more radio friendly in that it hit #16 on the HOT 100 Airplay chart?

2. Either way, how would you be able to discern that they are more into the "superficial benefits of a hit single", than "the actual music contained in that single"?

I don't see any evidence that the band is less committed to the actual music in their songs, than they have been at any point in their history.

I don't see how their music today is less radio friendly. Their latest singles sound specifically designed for radio (to a fault). If by "less radio friendly" do you mean the radio isn't embracing them as much as they used to? Cuz i can't say i disagree there.

Just look at POP's singles:

Discotheque #22
Staring At The Sun #16
Last Night On Earth #74


Now look at ATYCLB singles:

Beautiful Day #19
Stuck In A Moment #56

Please and IGWSHA did not chart on the national airplay chart, while Elevation and Walk On failed to make the national airplay chart as well. All in all, POP's singles proved to be more radio friendly than ATYCLB.

Why would you say that "Beautiful Day" is designed for radio but Discotheque and Staring at the Sun were not? The FACT is, radio LIKED Staring At The Sun better than Beautiful Day. It got played a little more and was able to make a higher chart position than Beautiful Day did. The public bought far more copies of ATYCLB than POP, but the singles from POP received more radio airplay than the singles from ATYCLB.

I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For, a gospel song, topped the charts during the synthpop and hairmetal 80's. Radio friendly? I think not. Was it a hit? Fuckin-A.

There is a large segment of America that loves gospel and country music and ISHFWILF fit right into that. It continues to be U2's most played song in America with the exception of With Or Without You. It might not have been similar to the latest trends in music, but it was in keeping with past much longer loved traditions of popular music.

I'm not claiming that U2 set out to write a song to grab the country/gospel market in America, I'm just showing that the idea that this song was not radio friendly is not really true.

It sounds to me like they're always trying, trying REAL REAL hard to make the music memorable, while one of their signature songs ISHFWILF sounds effortless, like it was recorded in 5 minutes and written in maybe less than that. That's magic, folks

But thats just an opinion formed from listening to the music. The band conversations, music writing, jam sessions, production talks etc, are all largely unknown to the general public.

Again, Staring At The Sun does not sound any different in this respect from ISHFWILF or Beautiful Day. Staring At The Sun did better than Beautiful Day at radio, but not nearly as well as ISHFWILF.

I think virtually everything on HTDAAB is magic and so is much of ATYCLB. I'd place HTDAAB at 3rd on my list of U2's best albums, right next to Achtung Baby and Joshua Tree, and ahead of the Unforgettable Fire.

 

[powerhour24]

I think you're arguing with semantics, SATS might have a higher chart number, who knows the context, there's no doubt that BD would be their most recognizable hit song since One.

 

[dan_smee]

I just think at this point we are all well aware of their recent past and delaying of releases,tweaking with things etc, and the terminally negative types on here seem intent on preparing for a let down. It may well happen, however they fail to acknowledge a few key points that makes this time different (and hopefully will have a different result!)

I just think those doomers and gloomers have made their point numerous times, and the only purpose it is now serving is bumming out those who are hopeful, and it is actually diluting the factual evidence we have.

Fact of the matter is:
- They had an excess of material after NLOTH, numerous quotes saying they have a whole other albums worth of material, and Bono says they have 12 songs.
- The album HAS A NAME. I can't imagine 2 months after the release of ATYCLB Bono coming out and saying, oh by the way, the next album is called How to Dismantle an Atomic Bomb, and it'll be out in 2004.
- The next album, HAS A FIRST SINGLE. Again, after ATYCLB or Bomb, would bono have said, yeah our next albums first single will be Vertigo, or GOYB.
- Everyone except Adam has given fairly hopeful interviews saying that the album will be finished ASAP, rather than the usual idea of finishing it 'quickly'

Finally, we are all sensible enough to know that it may not happen, but the evidence points to it being much more likely this time around than ever before, so lets stop being fucking negative shitheads and embrace the possibility that U2 are maybe going to reward us for the patience we have shown over the last decade.

 

[HansaTonImbiss]

Well, if we're using the logic of "abandoned" cuts from the NLOTH sessions as the starter dough for this record, I suppose we can expect to see...

(From RS 22 January 2009)

"Tripoli"
This strikingly experimental song lurches between disparate styles, including near-operatic choral music, Zooropa-style electronics, and churning arena rock.

"Every Breaking Wave"
A swelling soul-pop song, with bright synth sounds influenced by OMD and, Bono says, "early electronica." "You don't hear indie bands doing blue-eyed soul [like this]," he adds.

And KOYL, along with possibly another two to three.

If they can keep the tracks on this fabric, and add a thumping hit to it, I think that would be pretty exceptional. Again, I think it's the aesthetic they're going for, and if these cuts are any indication, it could be a very interesting turn. Haven't heard a lot of "synth" or "electronica" on U2 album cuts in a while, but it seems clear they're having a ball with the remix of IGCIIDGCT on tour- which seems to mirror that "vibe". We'll see.

 

[dan_smee]

Well, if we're using the logic of "abandoned" cuts from the NLOTH sessions as the starter dough for this record, I suppose we can expect to see...

(From RS 22 January 2009)

"Tripoli"
This strikingly experimental song lurches between disparate styles, including near-operatic choral music, Zooropa-style electronics, and churning arena rock.

"Every Breaking Wave"
A swelling soul-pop song, with bright synth sounds influenced by OMD and, Bono says, "early electronica." "You don't hear indie bands doing blue-eyed soul [like this]," he adds.

And KOYL, along with possibly another two to three.

If they can keep the tracks on this fabric, and add a thumping hit to it, I think that would be pretty exceptional. Again, I think it's the aesthetic they're going for, and if these cuts are any indication, it could be a very interesting turn. Haven't heard a lot of "synth" or "electronica" on U2 album cuts in a while, but it seems clear they're having a ball with the remix of IGCIIDGCT on tour- which seems to mirror that "vibe".

Tripoli was confirmed to be Fez-Being Born by Q journalist who heard it

 

[ozeeko]

1. How do you know they are searching for a single to specifically top "Beautiful Day", a single that peaked at #19 on the HOT 100 AIRPLAY chart in the USA? Why not "Staring At The Sun"? That was more radio friendly in that it hit #16 on the HOT 100 Airplay chart?

2. Either way, how would you be able to discern that they are more into the "superficial benefits of a hit single", than "the actual music contained in that single"?

I don't see any evidence that the band is less committed to the actual music in their songs, than they have been at any point in their history.




Just look at POP's singles:

Discotheque #22
Staring At The Sun #16
Last Night On Earth #74


Now look at ATYCLB singles:

Beautiful Day #19
Stuck In A Moment #56

Please and IGWSHA did not chart on the national airplay chart, while Elevation and Walk On failed to make the national airplay chart as well. All in all, POP's singles proved to be more radio friendly than ATYCLB.

Why would you say that "Beautiful Day" is designed for radio but Discotheque and Staring at the Sun were not? The FACT is, radio LIKED Staring At The Sun better than Beautiful Day. It got played a little more and was able to make a higher chart position than Beautiful Day did. The public bought far more copies of ATYCLB than POP, but the singles from POP received more radio airplay than the singles from ATYCLB.




There is a large segment of America that loves gospel and country music and ISHFWILF fit right into that. It continues to be U2's most played song in America with the exception of With Or Without You. It might not have been similar to the latest trends in music, but it was in keeping with past much longer loved traditions of popular music.

I'm not claiming that U2 set out to write a song to grab the country/gospel market in America, I'm just showing that the idea that this song was not radio friendly is not really true.



But thats just an opinion formed from listening to the music. The band conversations, music writing, jam sessions, production talks etc, are all largely unknown to the general public.

Again, Staring At The Sun does not sound any different in this respect from ISHFWILF or Beautiful Day. Staring At The Sun did better than Beautiful Day at radio, but not nearly as well as ISHFWILF.

I think virtually everything on HTDAAB is magic and so is much of ATYCLB. I'd place HTDAAB at 3rd on my list of U2's best albums, right next to Achtung Baby and Joshua Tree, and ahead of the Unforgettable Fire.

Well, I noticed you conveniently left out my comment regarding ISHFWILF where i said that maybe it wasn't easy to record, but the point is it sounds effortless. That's the point i was trying to get across. To me, all the singles off BOMB, and GOYB and a couple tracks off NLOTH, sound very labored, like they were worked to death. I don't know if they were in reality, but TO ME it sounds like they were. That's the point i'm trying to make. It's all my opinion, you can disagree, and whatever that's fine. You should have your own opinion anyway.

When I say it seems like they're chasing the dragon, trying to top Beautiful Day for all the wrong reasons...I'll try to explain it in the simplest terms (not something i am good at apparently)

When Beautiful Day came out, it sounded more than their 90's output like "old u2", like the JT U2, like the "classic U2" sound. Did it really? Not in any obvious sense, it's just that it wasn't dark and "experimental" like the 90's. For most people, even for me, it was a "return to form". It was a return to the exuberant, joyful U2 sound. That optimistic stadium anthem that many people, including me in my youth, longed for around the time that POP came out. (since then i love POP but that just came with age)

So while Beautiful Day is also a killer pop song, it also represented more. It represented the return of earnest sounding U2, the sincere guys who write music that shouts from the heavens, songs like sermons, shiny and clear and good-intentioned.

Of course, if one really were to really dive in like me and most of you here through their old music and lyrics, you'd discover U2 weren't the shiny clear optimistic band after all. Even Beautiful Day's lyrics, while being optimistic, point more to tragedy. But it doesn't matter, that song fulfilled for many out there that longing for an uplifting U2 anthem. The U2 myth, what casual listeners associated the band with, may not have even been there to begin with, but that was the lasting impression from songs like With Or Without You, Pride, Where the Streets, ISHFWILF, One. Beautiful Day was another uplifting anthem. Maybe misunderstood lyrically, but to the average listener that doesn't matter obviously.

This is what i'm trying to explain: Ever since Beautiful Day hit the airwaves, and ATYCLB, Bono and the boys' attempts at singles sound more like Public Service Announcements than songs. They're like self-motivation tapes. I feel like most of the lyrics deal with overcoming darkness if you only (insert verb here- walk on, walk out into a sunburst street, go crazy tonight, get on your boots, shout it and don't be shy about it) and in other songs where it's not a verb hook, it's just another variation of the same theme. You'll overcome this place called Vertigo by believing in that thing that entity that gives you something to feel, and as a result teaches you how to kneel. In WITS ( a song i actually enjoy ) its a whole description of the process of love overcoming darkness. COBL tells us how beautiful we all are. And in my opinion, these songs couldn't have happened without Beautiful Day's massive success, beyond the charts, in the public consciousness. Beautiful Day became that positive, life-affirming anthem that gets people through the day, cheers them up, makes them think twice about something negative, and that's what i loved about the song...except it spawned so many similar types of songs. That's what i mean when i say their recent songs sound more like PSA's and self-motivational speeches, its all geared towards us, he's shouting at "us", in one big universal group, and the cure for life's ills is contained in Bono's message. This is just how i see the music today, i'm not basing it off anything i've read or anything the band has said. It's just my opinion, my point of view. If you don't agree, then respectfully disagree, because i'm not going to start chastising you for your opinions on U2.

If someone likes these kinds of songs, then that's really awesome for them, it's definitely the time to be into U2.

I don't mind a song like that, but for me it's just gotten old a long time ago.

 

[HansaTonImbiss]

Tripoli was confirmed to be Fez-Being Born by Q journalist who heard it

Got it, totally forgot that one- thanks. I guess in my mind I was going back to the "Here is What Is" clips and that "ooooohh/like you see/when we stroll/in old Tripoli" or whatever Bono is strumming there by himself with Eno clapping in the background before they cut to MOS. That may be just jibberish, but sounded cool to me!

 

[gweeps]

i respect your opinion, but can you give me an example of this?

Native Son. This song has some political meaning and musical bite to it. Vertigo is bland rock n' roll filler.