Should U2 Abandon HTDAAB And Record A New Album Immediately?

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jick said:


My threads never fail to provide great reading to all the U2 fanatics in this forum who like stimulating intellectual discussions. Others have to resort to sensationalized journalism, or tabloidish factual presentation, or melodramatic over-exagerrations just to draw discussions out of the intellectuals of this forum. I personally don't feel the need to resort to those tactics. I just pick a set of facts, present it as it is, draw the possible implications of the facts, then present it to Interference for intellectually stimulating discussion.

Cheers,

J
:lmao:
spin...spin...spin...spin...

I like this part the most, although I "translated" it:
"I just pick a set of facts,(the ones that you NEED only) present it as it is,(in your opinion) draw the possible implications of the facts, (aka TROLLING) then present it to Interference for intellectually stimulating discussion. (aka seeking attention for yourself)...

No offense, Great post!
:up:
 
bathiu said:

:lmao:
spin...spin...spin...spin...

I like this part the most, although I "translated" it:
"I just pick a set of facts,(the ones that you NEED only) present it as it is,(in your opinion) draw the possible implications of the facts, (aka TROLLING) then present it to Interference for intellectually stimulating discussion. (aka seeking attention for yourself)...

No offense, Great post!
:up:

Presenting facts is not equal to opion.

Drawing implications of the facts IS opinion, and not trolling.

I do not seek attention at all. As a matter of fact, I always make sure I present my facts carefully because I have observed that there are some members who actually seek my posts (as opposed to your accusations that I seek attention).

Over the past two months, I have realized that every thread I start has always been taken with great interest by the readers of this forum. All of this just makes me more careful with what I say, more diligent in researching my facts, and more diplomatic to all. You will never see me make a personal attack.

Sorry for being off topic, let's get back to the topic now. What do you guys think should U2's follow-up to HTDAAB be? Should it be a quickie 10 track album, or a full-blown double album? (considering they allegedly have so many leftover songs from the HTDAAB sessions)

I think U2 also needs a double album because their productivity rate has declined steadily and it will be a pity of their Best of 2000-2010 will only cover 3 albums.

A summer release for the HTDAAB follow-up will give them momentum going into the third leg in the fall.

Cheers,

J
 
I think the fact that HTDAAB was certified 3x platinum within a month of release, when it took ATYCLB a whole year to achieve that status, speaks for itself. HTDAAB may be at the lower end of the charts now, but number wise, it is still way ahead of ATYCLB.

This tells me that ATYCLB slowed down considerably after a while as well, and it had a tour that summer to help get it to 3x platinum. We haven't even gotten there yet with HTDAAB. That's why I think it's too early to dismiss this new album.

Longevity on the charts does not say whether an album was a failure or not. Sometimes, it takes a while for the CD buying public to catch on to an album - hence the longer chart life for that album. But in U2's case, they are a major artist with a major fan base, and that's why they sell so much up front. I think ATYCLB took slightly longer because people wanted to make sure they weren't getting another Pop, because let's face it: while I love Pop, it didn't sell as well and turned many hardcore fans off.

Which Fleetwood Mac album would you consider the "bigger" of the two - the self-titled one from 1975 that was the first to feature Lindsay Buckingham and Stevie Nicks, or Rumours, considered one of the greatest albums of all time? Well, going by your chart theory, it would have to be the self-titled one, because it had a longer life on the Top 40 charts. Why is this? Because that album was the first one with that new incarnation of the band, and it took a while for the public to see what it was all about. With Rumours, people knew about the artist, and it sold in stratospheric amounts right away (#1 for months!), but it wasn't in the Top 40 as long the previous one. Does that make Rumours less successful? I seriously doubt that.

You can't go by longevity on the charts alone. If the album sunk like a stone AND its sales numbers were less, then you would have a point to this thread. But unfortunately, the numbers speak for themselves, which means it is premature to think this way. Check back in the fall after the tour has come around once and more singles have come out. We'll see what the numbers look like then, because I'll bet they are still ahead of ATYCLB...
 
who cares what has happened or how much they have sold .. we all just have to live with this album and wait for the next reinvention!!!!!!!!

thats what im doing, never liked atyclb and dont like htdaab just hanging out till the next album comes out!
 
shaun vox said:
who cares what has happened or how much they have sold .. we all just have to live with this album and wait for the next reinvention!!!!!!!!

thats what im doing, never liked atyclb and dont like htdaab just hanging out till the next album comes out!

I think U2 are too old and too far into their careers for yet another reinvention.

With HTDAAB, they have found a sound that encompasses everything they have represented over the last 25 years and have stuck to it.

U2 are now in cruise control mode all the way to their nearing retirement.

Cheers,

J
 
jick said:


Sorry for being off topic, let's get back to the topic now. What do you guys think should U2's follow-up to HTDAAB be? Should it be a quickie 10 track album, or a full-blown double album? (considering they allegedly have so many leftover songs from the HTDAAB sessions)


Regardless of whether or not I think they NEED to record a new album, I would personally love to have them record an album during the tour. I would prefer a quick, relatively short, raw album that is essenially recorded live in the studio with little extra production or mixing. Kind of recreate the live sound of their more rocking songs, but all new songs of course.
 
jick said:


I think U2 are too old and too far into their careers for yet another reinvention.

With HTDAAB, they have found a sound that encompasses everything they have represented over the last 25 years and have stuck to it.

U2 are now in cruise control mode all the way to their nearing retirement.

Cheers,

J

I think the boys have a few tricks left up their sleeves:wink:
 
vivacolombia said:
I don't care what HTDAAB silly defenders say, the album is dead. :down:


HTDAAB has sold about 7million to customers right? hardly "dead"...and great, another faceless basher...I wonder who's double account this is.
 
300 million in gross tour sales yep the album is dead alright. If the album was bad in the U2 fanbases eye the tour wouldnt be selling out in every city within minutes. U2s fanbase simply has been weeker in America over the last 13 or so years but that certainly doesnt mean its gone. Still the biggest overseas band in terms of a fanbase in America not by a short ways by a long ways.
 
jick felt that, his other threads were commercal failures, so he had to post more bullshit in order to provide that the third leg of his stay here at interfernce was sucsessful? lol he relized he lost on the mother of all comebacks, so he better go in another direction. now that it didn't go up, he has to jump on the bandwagon (that he started,lol) that its gonna collapse and they should give up on the album.
 
allbecauseofu2 said:
jick felt that, his other threads were commercal failures, so he had to post more bullshit in order to provide that the third leg of his stay here at interfernce was sucsessful? lol he relized he lost on the mother of all comebacks, so he better go in another direction. now that it didn't go up, he has to jump on the bandwagon (that he started,lol) that its gonna collapse and they should give up on the album.

Nice to see someone who has been an avid follower of my threads. Let's run down how it has gone so far:

I exposed U2 for their shabby fan treatment with the presale fiasco.

I theorized that U2's nosedive down the charts so prematurely was because of a fan boycott.

After The Mullen Apology, I praised U2 to the high heavens and predicted an album rebound to mark U2's second career comeback.

Now my prediction has been proven wrong, it has become clear that the album is in dire need of redemption or the third leg of the tour will be stale.

So I concocted this idea of U2 looking into the possibility of a follow-up to HTDAAB by the time the third leg hits America to renew fan interest.

I am really not going in different directions. Just going through the natural course of events. It's also a cause and effect thing after my predictions have been proven wrong. But have no fear, my crystal ball will be renovated and should make a comeback soon.

Cheers,

J
 
jick said:


Well, with this year's Grammies - despite a 3 of 3 sweep, Bomb could only get to #20. Where was ATYCLB after the first Grammy wave (when BD won 3 of 3)? I bet better than #20. So next year, I don't see HTDAAB being pushed up by the Grammies as high as ATYCLB was pushed up.



The first leg sales occured before the album started plummeting down the charts. U2 also brilliantly had a "fall back" option which was the ticket presale website members just in case the tour wouldn't sell. But the tour did and the presale people got burned. But that is another story. It's just that anticipation for the first leg was high. But my main concern was not the first leg but the third leg. Since you are the maestro of all U2 statistics, care to give me statistics about Popmart's third leg? Wasn't it correct that they were not selling out venues? Is it also correct to say that there were 3rd leg Elevation Tour arena venues that were not sold out? I have never expressed any concern about the first leg.



33% is a large chunk of the market. But the American market is bigger than that in terms of exposure and media mileage that will trickle in to other markets. Everyone knows U2 is a worldwide band - that goes without saying. But you can see from some quotes they made prior to HTDAAB that they gave particular importance to dominating the US charts again. It's not about what market is bigger. Its about U2's priorities and goals and whether or not they have achieved it. Languisihing outside the top 50 just two weeks after the Grammy 3 of 3 sweep isn't exactly what U2 had intended.



Thanks for clearing the air. I guess POP was truly rejected by all races and religions around the world. But it is still safe to say I think that the Europeans are still "zombies" when it comes to going to see U2 live.



I agree with this statement that most purchase albums unheard. But when others start hearing it, if they like the musical quality then they will start buying it. This was the case with ATYCLB. Can you please provide me week 15 sales and chart positions for ATYCLB? With ATYCLB, as more people heard the music - they kept it afloat in the charts. With HTDAAB, after Vertigo -- ABOY and SYCMIOYO are failures in reviving the dying interest in U2. Now that people have heard the music, it seems they have made a decision to not buy it.



I am not underestimating them. They have succeeding and persevered through all these years because they have done things outside of the norm. They have defied convention and done things no one else will ever do. If they consider recording a new album at this time, it would be outside the norm and something unheard of agai. So it would still be a great decision if they decide to pursue it.



Once again, my premise is not raw sales figures because none of the November 23 releases had the marketing machine of U2. It is more about staying power and longevity on the charts which U2 seems to lack at this stage.

Thanks so much for contributing to this thread. Your knowledge of U2 sales statistics is very informative and valuable, and I look forward to using these figures in future posts. I look forward to your replies to my queries in some paragraphs above asking for clarifications on some figures.

Cheers,

J

ATYCLB after the first Grammy awards moved up to #11. But the Grammy awards they won that night were the biggest ones one can win at the Grammy's for a song, Record of The Year and Song of the Year. This year, Vertigo was not up for those awards, but in categories that got much less spotlight.

Next year, I can see the band winning album of the year for the first time since 1987/1988, along with a big sweep of the awards, perhaps as many as 8 Grammy's. This will have a huge and probably larger impact on sales than the Grammy shows for ATYCLB.

Well, the third leg of POPMART in North America was only 17 shows, mainly in smaller markets. The POP album at that point had only sold 1.2 million copies in the USA. Despite these facts, 575,742 people attended these 17 shows! The first leg of POPMART had 29 shows and 14 "sellouts", the third leg had 17 shows and 5 "sellouts". There were a few shows on both the first Elevation leg and the third Elevation leg that did not completely sellout in small markets and usually seats that were behind the stage being the tickets that remained unsold.

By the way, BOMB came in at #48 this week with 23,000+ sales in the USA!

POP still sold 5.5 million copies in 1997 and was one of the 20 biggest selling albums of the year worldwide. It was not the standard 10 million + one had become accustomed from U2, but it was definitely not an album that was rejected or a flop either.

ATYCLB week 15 USA chart position and sales: #37 (41,000)


Its important to remember that the push for "Sometimes" has just started. The HALL OF FAME is coming up this Monday and every artist that appears on there normally gets a huge boosts and U2 will be the spotlight of the show.

This album is only in its 15th week and has already sold over 2.5 million copies to consumer and is certified at triple platinum. In this market, this is very, very impressive. The odds are still very good that this album will sell over 4 million copies in the USA by the summer of 2006, if not sooner.
 
really? i was thinking frank stallone, but whatever.

what i find funny is how anyone ever takes jick seriously. like i did. wow was my face red.
 
Zoomerang96 said:
what i find funny is how anyone ever takes jick seriously. like i did. wow was my face red.

I don't want to seem like an old stick in the mud, but although many of us know J's full of shit, I always worry about newer/younger fans reading his trolling B.S. and taking it seriously.

I certainly don't want someone listening to POP for the first time with his poison in their minds beforehand, for example. Or thinking Adam is a "drugged out loser", as J has called him in the poast. So I attempt to dispute all his out-of-context quotes and illogical conclusions for that very reason.

But yeah, it's so sad it's funny.


laz
 
lazarus said:


I don't want to seem like an old stick in the mud, but although many of us know J's full of shit, I always worry about newer/younger fans reading his trolling B.S. and taking it seriously.

I certainly don't want someone listening to POP for the first time with his poison in their minds beforehand, for example. Or thinking Adam is a "drugged out loser", as J has called him in the poast. So I attempt to dispute all his out-of-context quotes and illogical conclusions for that very reason.

But yeah, it's so sad it's funny.


laz

The passion and love in Gone or WUDM are louder than any of Jick's "crazy notions." It'll shine through.
 
STING2 said:


ATYCLB after the first Grammy awards moved up to #11. But the Grammy awards they won that night were the biggest ones one can win at the Grammy's for a song, Record of The Year and Song of the Year. This year, Vertigo was not up for those awards, but in categories that got much less spotlight.

So there is a 9 spot differential in positions to the climb achieved by ATYCLB due to the Grammy push. I would bet that there is even more disparity with the sales figures considering the market now is smaller than before. Also, how did ATYCLB do after its first post-Grammy week? Did it dramatically drop 21 places like HTDAAB did from #20 to #41? Or did it maintain steady sales the second week?

Next year, I can see the band winning album of the year for the first time since 1987/1988, along with a big sweep of the awards, perhaps as many as 8 Grammy's. This will have a huge and probably larger impact on sales than the Grammy shows for ATYCLB.

You can never be sure. ATYCLB was perhaps the only album in rock history to have four different songs win Grammies - including two records of the year. Yet, it did not even win album of the year. So right now, it is just your prediction to see the band win album of the year.

Well, the third leg of POPMART in North America was only 17 shows, mainly in smaller markets. The POP album at that point had only sold 1.2 million copies in the USA. Despite these facts, 575,742 people attended these 17 shows! The first leg of POPMART had 29 shows and 14 "sellouts", the third leg had 17 shows and 5 "sellouts". There were a few shows on both the first Elevation leg and the third Elevation leg that did not completely sellout in small markets and usually seats that were behind the stage being the tickets that remained unsold.

12 of 17 Popmart shows for the third leg, or 70% of the shows were not filled to capacity. And a number of them I am certain, were to half-empty stadiums. Traditionally, U2 don't play major markets like Chicago or Boston on their third legs, so it is a safe assumption that they won't hit those dates in this third leg either.

By the way, BOMB came in at #48 this week with 23,000+ sales in the USA!

....as compared to ATYCLB week 15 which was #37 with 41,000. So right now, in terms of raw figures - the pace of HTDAAB has dropped considerable to almost 50% of ATYCLB's pace. In the end, it might be a tall order for HTDAAB to match ATYCLB's sales. By the way, just for a point of clarification, did ATYCLB's week 15 sales occur before or after the Grammy awards?

POP still sold 5.5 million copies in 1997 and was one of the 20 biggest selling albums of the year worldwide. It was not the standard 10 million + one had become accustomed from U2, but it was definitely not an album that was rejected or a flop either.

No U2 album is every "rejected." But one of the things that have made U2 stay relevant for so long is that they never stoop to lower standards and make themselves content with an album not being a flop in relation to others. U2 only measure their success based on their own previous success. So to their mind, POP was a flop for their standards -- and all their interviews near the release of ATYCLB had them either making confessions about POP or stressing the importance of ATYCLB selling more than POP.

Its important to remember that the push for "Sometimes" has just started. The HALL OF FAME is coming up this Monday and every artist that appears on there normally gets a huge boosts and U2 will be the spotlight of the show.

I am aware of the Hall of Fame push. But those kinds of pushes happen mostly the an artist's back catalogue or greatest hits release. U2 are a very unique band, to still be a marketable force with a current album and be inducted into the Hall of Fame. Nevertheless, I don't see how a Hall of Fame push can be greater than the Grammy push which has a wider audience. Only the rock fans will tune in to that event. So if the Grammies made the album climb to #20, I don't think the Hall of Fame will spark a bigger comeback.

This album is only in its 15th week and has already sold over 2.5 million copies to consumer and is certified at triple platinum. In this market, this is very, very impressive. The odds are still very good that this album will sell over 4 million copies in the USA by the summer of 2006, if not sooner.

I have never been shy about my good impression of U2's huge intitial sales weels. What is alarming is the fact that the chart positions and sales figures have dried up so soon. I was hoping for a better performance than this.

If U2 releases an album in time for the third leg, they should have new songs to play live and the new album show debut in the top 5 and stay about 3 weeks in the top 10. That is about all they need to keep the interest level high and keep them always in the public's eye.

Cheers,

J
 
lazarus said:

I certainly don't want someone listening to POP for the first time with his poison in their minds beforehand, for example. Or thinking Adam is a "drugged out loser", as J has called him in the poast. So I attempt to dispute all his out-of-context quotes and illogical conclusions for that very reason.

I never use the term "loser" referring to people so this is clearly a fabrication on your part. Loser is only in my vocabulary when I refer to chart losers and gainers. "Drugged out" isn't in my vocabulary either. This is clearly a fabrication on your part to taint my reputation. For drug dependent persons, I prefer to use the word "junkie" and have never ever used the phrase which you quote "drugged out loser." Either you have mistaken me for someone else or you are out to damage my good reputation.


Cheers,

J
 
:hmm:
jick said:


My threads never fail to provide great reading to all the U2 fanatics in this forum who like stimulating intellectual discussions. Others have to resort to sensationalized journalism, or tabloidish factual presentation, or melodramatic over-exagerrations just to draw discussions out of the intellectuals of this forum. I personally don't feel the need to resort to those tactics. I just pick a set of facts, present it as it is, draw the possible implications of the facts, then present it to Interference for intellectually stimulating discussion.

Cheers,

J
:hmm:
jick said:

I do not seek attention at all. As a matter of fact, I always make sure I present my facts carefully because I have observed that there are some members who actually seek my posts

Over the past two months, I have realized that every thread I start has always been taken with great interest by the readers of this forum. All of this just makes me more careful with what I say, more diligent in researching my facts, and more diplomatic to all.

Cheers,

J
:hmm:
Is there enough bandwidh on interefrence for such a big EGO?
jick said:

Nice to see someone who has been an avid follower of my threads. Let's run down how it has gone so far:

I exposed U2 for their shabby fan treatment with the presale fiasco.


Cheers,

J
:ohmy: ...so it was you?

jick said:
Either you have mistaken me for someone else or you are out to damage my good reputation.


Cheers,

J
*whispers*Jick, I'll tell you a secret. You do not have a good reputation.

From making the worst ideas for setlist on this tour... calling band members names... yes, jick. You can thank Larry as long as you wish for his apology, but those "two words" in his apology are realy for you... your avatar... to finaly you certain opinion in this thread.
No jick, you do not have a good reputation...

Well, the third leg of POPMART in North America was only 17 shows, mainly in smaller markets. The POP album at that point had only sold 1.2 million copies in the USA. Despite these facts, 575,742 people attended these 17 shows! The first leg of POPMART had 29 shows and 14 "sellouts", the third leg had 17 shows and 5 "sellouts". There were a few shows on both the first Elevation leg and the third Elevation leg that did not completely sellout in small markets and usually seats that were behind the stage being the tickets that remained unsold.
12 of 17 Popmart shows for the third leg, or 70% of the shows were not filled to capacity. And a number of them I am certain, were to half-empty stadiums. Traditionally, U2 don't play major markets like Chicago or Boston on their third legs, so it is a safe assumption that they won't hit those dates in this third leg either.
jick, again you're full of BS.
You like so much to remind how many copies POP and ATYCLB sold, then I wont repeat it again...
but when a tour like PopMart after a "failure-album" like POP, on 95 shows, has 3.9mln people (~41053 fans/show).
...and a tour like Elevation after a "succesful-album" like ATYCLB, on 113 shows has 2.1mln people (~18584 fans/show)
(lets leave the gross of the tours behind and talk only about nr of people)
...then:
1)It's not because of the people PopMart's numbers look like that, but because of the tour's cost, ticket's price, and becouse they played on to big stadiums ("not sold out" part- wich looks bad on paper)
2)You can be sure that even if HTDAAB would not sell even one more copy anymore... the people in huge numbers would still come to see them (just like they did on PopMart)
 
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HTDDAB is already going above many other u2 albums. like boy,oct,zooropa.pop and tied with unforgettable fire. so by u2 standards, witch everyone won't look past this album is in the middle. whats the fucking problem? and the things been out 3-4 mouths.
 
jick said:


I have never been shy about my good impression of U2's huge intitial sales weels. What is alarming is the fact that the chart positions and sales figures have dried up so soon. I was hoping for a better performance than this.


I don't understand Jick. We've already established how far ahead HTDAAB is of ATYCLB's pace. Even if the numbers from week 15 for both albums remained the same all year, which they certainly won't, it would take all year before HTDAAB fell to the same amount of sales as ATYCLB, and that won't happen because ATYCLB's numbers began to fall off as 2001 went along.

Remember, ATYCLB wasn't certified 3x platinum until a year after it came out, yet HTDAAB already has been. Using actual sales numbers, HTDAAB is half a million ahead right now, and we haven't even had the tour yet.

Four months is too early to determine an album's lifespan, wouldn't you agree?
 
fact is theres 3 types of u2 fans

1. fans who have been there since the start (usually) who like UF, JT, ATYCLB

2. fans who like u2's experimental side (AB, Zooropa, Pop, and to some extent HTDAAB-- I know some people will disagree and say HTDAAB is safe but I just look at in the context of today's music songs like MD, AMAAW, Crumbs are unique)

3. fans who understand both sides of u2's evolution, and appreciate both parts equally and believe that without one side they couldn't have the other

now its my belief that #2 fans are usually OKAY with traditional albums like ATYCLB because thats where U2 started from, but #1 fans absolutely hate experimental U2 because they feel alienated
 
bcrt2000 said:

2. fans who like u2's experimental side (AB, Zooropa, Pop, and to some extent HTDAAB-- I know some people will disagree and say HTDAAB is safe but I just look at in the context of today's music songs like MD, AMAAW, Crumbs are unique)


now its my belief that #2 fans are usually OKAY with traditional albums like ATYCLB because thats where U2 started from, but #1 fans absolutely hate experimental U2 because they feel alienated

Yeah, I think I'm definitely #2 and still kinda okay with ATYCLB.
 
Zootlesque said:


Oh... and I don't think MD qualifies. Just listen to Jick's mix of WOWY and MD.

Wait til I make the Crumbs Walk On mix or the Yahweh/One Tree Hill/Streets mix - they should be all forthcoming. Or even the Mercy - Flock Of SeaGulls mix.

Cheers,

J
 
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