sad but true

[GibsonGirl]

And what's wrong with radio-friendly and poppy records?

That's EXACTLY what I want to know. Much of The Joshua Tree is extremely radio-friendly, yet it's hailed as one of the best albums ever created. And rightly so. There's just no way to deny it - U2 are good at writing pop songs. And their pop songs are GOOD! Hell, even U2's most-poppish song, The Sweetest Thing, is better than the majority of the crap you hear on MTV. I like hearing U2 experiment just as much as the next person, but there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with HTDAAB. In fact, I like the songs from HTDAAB much more than many of the songs on Zooropa and Pop. And I don't understand the big deal over promoting the album... In fact, I want them to promote the album like they currently are. The more people who listen to it, the better. I'd love nothing more than to see those poor, misguided people - who are being fooled by 99.9% of the artists on MTV - realise what REAL music sounds like.

 

[Axver]

If Even Better Than The Real Thing, Mysterious Ways, and Ultra Violet aren't pop-rock, then I don't know what is.

And they're on Achtung Baby, which people here worship as the god of albums.

 

[ImOuttaControl]

That's EXACTLY what I want to know. Much of The Joshua Tree is extremely radio-friendly, yet it's hailed as one of the best albums ever created. And rightly so. There's just no way to deny it - U2 are good at writing pop songs. And their pop songs are GOOD! Hell, even U2's most-poppish song, The Sweetest Thing, is better than the majority of the crap you hear on MTV. I like hearing U2 experiment just as much as the next person, but there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with HTDAAB.

Exactly.

I admit that at times I can be a bit of a musical elitist/snob when people talk about different bands, but I think I'm starting to not take for granted great songs by not so great artists anymore. Elitism only puts people in a little box when there is a whole world out there. I mean, what's wrong with a great, well crafted pop song? Just earlier today I was thinking about the Beatles--one of the greatest bands ever if not the best--they made their career over hit pop songs. I was wondering if elitists today would pass up some of the timeless Beatles songs like "Hey Jude," "Let It Be," or "Something" for being just plain and simple poppy. Wouldn't that be pitiful.

Anyone who says U2 have sold out recently has to clean their ears out. While I prefer the more experimental 90's work to ATYCLB or HTDAAB, U2 has no doubt always written pop songs and promoted them on whatever medium was available to them at the time, minus selling the songs for commercials which U2 still hasn't done.

Just a few examples:
Pride: U2's first hit in the U.S.--total pop song.
The Joshua Tree: VERY poppy...those bastards even went on Time magazine to promote their album! Sellouts!
Rattle and Hum: A movie??? how much more of selling out can you get!!
PopMart: What's this KMart deal all about?
ATYCLB: Beautiful Day for the Olympics? sellouts.

 

[Zoots]

Just a few examples:
Pride: U2's first hit in the U.S.--total pop song.
The Joshua Tree: VERY poppy...those bastards even went on Time magazine to promote their album! Sellouts!
Rattle and Hum: A movie??? how much more of selling out can you get!!
PopMart: What's this KMart deal all about?
ATYCLB: Beautiful Day for the Olympics? sellouts.

Wasn't the whole Popmart concept more of a spoof on consumerism? Weren't Achtung, Zooropa and esp. Pop drenched in irony?

 

[roy]

Wasn't the whole Popmart concept more of a spoof on consumerism? Weren't Achtung, Zooropa and esp. Pop drenched in irony?

Please explain to me how If God Will Send His Angels and the God awful WGRYWH are ironic....

 

[Zoots]

Please explain to me how If God Will Send His Angels and the God awful WGRYWH are ironic....

I didn't say every single song was ironic...geez!!! Some of you are so technical in your arguments.

 

[ImOuttaControl]

Wasn't the whole Popmart concept more of a spoof on consumerism? Weren't Achtung, Zooropa and esp. Pop drenched in irony?

Yeah it was about irony.

But look at all the poppy songs that were released as singles (note: I use the real definitely of "poppy" which is simply catchy hooks, huge choruses...ect): One, Mysterious Ways, Even Better Than The Real Thing, WGRYWH, Stay, Staring At The Sun, Last Night On Earth. Add the poppy singles with the new "cool" look of the 90's, especially on Pop where U2 were completely following-not leading- fasion fads of the time. HMTMKMKM--released purely for a blockbuster movie. Now that's promotion.
You also had U2 specials on T.V., which is more promotion. (even though they had some of the lowest ratings ever).


My point is that to say that U2 did a huge turnabout in the last 2 albums is just ridiculous. U2 have always made radio friendly tunes and promoted them in what way seemed the best at the time. People here just need to get it through their heads that the music industry, with the internet and the rise of rap/hiphop, has drastically changed. Ever notice how tv shows seem to be the place to promote songs now? Just turn on The OC and you'll hear some great music every week you'll probably never hear elsewhere. MTV, VH1..ect care more about stupid reality TV shows than actually airing great new music. 95% of all radio stations suck ass...how are artists supposed to get exposure of their songs?


And another point: U2 have said from the beginning they wanted to be the biggest band in the world. When have they ever been worried about being "sellouts?" I'm sure you could label them sellouts when they went from being a cult band to an internationally famous band with War and TUF. Times change, people need to get with it. U2 have ALWAYS said they wanted to be the biggest and the best...well, an Ipod commercial is a pretty easy tradeoff IMO for a band that wants to still be considered the biggest band in the world.

 

[ramblin rose]

I didn't say every single song was ironic...geez!!! Some of you are so technical in your arguments.

But that's the point. Nothing has really changed. U2 has always written some songs that were more pop than others. Have always tried to promote their albums in whichever way was they believed best at the time of promotion.

You can't tell me you think CFYT is a pop song, while WGRYWH or ISHFWILF probably can be considered so. The guy who wrote the article is a jerk who definately has another agenda when it comes to U2.

 

[Zoots]

But that's the point. Nothing has really changed. U2 has always written some songs that were more pop than others. Have always tried to promote their albums in whichever way was they believed best at the time of promotion.

You can't tell me you think CFYT is a pop song, while WGRYWH or ISHFWILF probably can be considered so. The guy who wrote the article is a jerk who definately has another agenda when it comes to U2.

Agreed that U2 have always written some songs that were more pop than others! But never complete pop albums like these last 2. Does anything on atyclb or htdaab come close to the guitar leads in say Until The End Of The World or The Fly? Whatever guitar work these albums have, it's all repetitive and pretty simple or just made really loud in the mix (eg.: ABOY). Don't get me wrong, I like these 2 albums but they were definitely edgier before (from 1980 thru 1997).

 

[Axver]

Agreed that U2 have always written some songs that were more pop than others! But never complete pop albums like these last 2. Does anything on atyclb or htdaab come close to the guitar leads in say Until The End Of The World or The Fly? Whatever guitar work these albums have, it's all repetitive and pretty simple or just made really loud in the mix (eg.: ABOY). Don't get me wrong, I like these 2 albums but they were definitely edgier before (from 1980 thru 1997).

So you want guitar solos and use that as your measure of defining quality? Go find a new band then, and while your at it, get some consistency in your arguments.

And if we're defining pop as having catchy hooks, then Grace and One Step Closer aren't pop. Thus, ATYCLB and HTDAAB are not complete pop albums.

 

[rjhbonovox]

Agreed that U2 have always written some songs that were more pop than others! But never complete pop albums like these last 2. Does anything on atyclb or htdaab come close to the guitar leads in say Until The End Of The World or The Fly? Whatever guitar work these albums have, it's all repetitive and pretty simple or just made really loud in the mix (eg.: ABOY). Don't get me wrong, I like these 2 albums but they were definitely edgier before (from 1980 thru 1997).

Very much agreed. The music on the last 2 albums is too polished and too sickly for its own good. Not enough roughness too it. On previous albums they would make sure they would have at least 2 or 3 songs that they could rely on as singles but the last 2 albums apart from 1 or 2 tracks on each have just been all geared for single release or so it would seem. If that was their aim then they achieved it but I don't like the idea of U2 albums having 11 tracks that could all easily be singles. Thats getting like Westlife or Blue, pure pop.

 

[Zoots]

So you want guitar solos and use that as your measure of defining quality? Go find a new band then, and while your at it, get some consistency in your arguments.

And if we're defining pop as having catchy hooks, then Grace and One Step Closer aren't pop. Thus, ATYCLB and HTDAAB are not complete pop albums.

When did I ever define pop as having catchy hooks???
Why do you make up stuff like that? Pop is basically not rock, anything that doesn't rock. Grace and One Step Closer are most definitely pop. Just thinking about the Until the End guitar lead gives me goosebumps.

 

[blueyedpoet]

is bob dylan a sell-out for appearing in a victoria's secrets commericial?

 

[Axver]

When did I ever define pop as having catchy hooks???

ImOuttaControl posted that and you didn't question it.

Pop is basically not rock, anything that doesn't rock.

Worst. Definition. EVER.

So opera is pop now? And Vertigo and EBTTRT are NOT pop-rock?

You're foolish if you use that definition.

 

[Zoots]

Worst. Definition. EVER.

So opera is pop now? And Vertigo and EBTTRT are NOT pop-rock?

You're foolish if you use that definition.

Stop being so damn technical will you? Obviously we are talking about just pop and rock here and not opera. Okay, so maybe I'm not great at definitions. But I know when a record sounds poppy.

 

[Axver]

Stop being so damn technical will you? Obviously we are talking about just pop and rock here and not opera. Okay, so maybe I'm not great at definitions. But I know when a record sounds poppy.

You know when a record sounds pop-y, do you? So HTDAAB sounds like Britney Spears' Best Of?

Also, while I'm being so damn technical, a poppy is a flower.

 

[Zoots]

The music on the last 2 albums is too polished. Not enough roughness too it. I don't like the idea of U2 albums having 11 tracks that could all easily be singles. Thats getting like Westlife or Blue, pure pop.

Exactly!

 

[Zoots]

You know when a record sounds pop-y, do you? So HTDAAB sounds like Britney Spears' Best Of?

Also, while I'm being so damn technical, a poppy is a flower.

poppy is a flower.... at least you admit that you're too technical for your own good.

 

[Axver]

Only about half of ATYCLB's songs could seriously be considered for singles. One Step Closer on HTDAAB definitely could not be a single. And what's wrong with a song if it seems like a good single? Achtung and JT are both packed with songs that could have been released as singles. Pop, the album you fawn over, had the most singles of any U2 album - and yet none were Gone, the song I consider to be the most obvious single of the lot!

I find it amusing that if the production's rough, people whine because they don't think it's refined enough, but if it's refined, they whine because it's not rough enough. Bizarre. Personally, I don't really hear the differences in production you people harp on about, so it's not an issue to me.

 

[Axver]

poppy is a flower.... at least you admit that you're too technical for your own good.

I'm a pedantic bastard and proud of it!

 

[Yahweh]

Point 1:

Not every song on this record nor the last record is meant to be a single. Peace On Earth, Grace, New York, Yahweh, One Step Closer, Crumbs From Your Table are not single material.

Point 2:

Achtung Baby and Joshua Tree had just as many single worthy tracks as the 2 most current recordings, if any album could have had 12 songs written to be singles Achtung Baby indeed was the closest.

Point 3:

Really you people need to stop living in the past....take some example from the lyrics of one of the old "classics" God Part 2 and really move on.

 

[Zoots]

I find it amusing that if the production's rough, people whine because they don't think it's refined enough, but if it's refined, they whine because it's not rough enough. Bizarre.

We never whined when the production was rough. One of the reasons Pop was great was because it was so raw.

 

[BVS]

Pop is basically not rock, anything that doesn't rock. Grace and One Step Closer are most definitely pop.

Yeah I agree with some of the others, not only have you no grasp on who U2 are, but you also have no grasp on music.

 

[Zoots]

The bottomline for my point is that the edginess is gone. That feeling you get when you're listening to bullet the blue sky, exit, silver and gold, god part 2, until the end, fly, acrobat, gone, please, wake up dead man etc is gone... up with the sun.

 

[Axver]

We never whined when the production was rough. One of the reasons Pop was great was because it was so raw.

That's not rough when compared to U2:3's production! Listened to that lately? Tell me what you think.

And if you don't whine about roughness, someone else will. U2 are damned if they do, damned if they don't. I hope they make their decisions based on what they want rather than the continual whinings of an ungrateful and selfish fanbase.

 

[Axver]

The bottomline for my point is that the edginess is gone. That feeling you get when you're listening to bullet the blue sky, exit, silver and gold, god part 2, until the end, fly, acrobat, gone, please, wake up dead man etc is gone... up with the sun.

The feeling of Streets and Pride is still there in COBL. Desire in Vertigo. Zooropa, the song, and HMTMKMKM in LAPOE. ISHFWILF in Crumbs. SYCMIOYO is the personalised version of the universal One. I could go on and on; it's just that you want U2 to do what YOU want and make Achtung Part II, and you're pissed that they're making what they feel like making. Get over it already.

 

[Zoots]

Yeah I agree with some of the others, not only have you no grasp on who U2 are, but you also have no grasp on music.

Hey! I know my music very well, thank you. I admit I may not be good at definitions, maybe that's cos I'm not that much of a geek.

 

[ramblin rose]

That feeling you get when you're listening to bullet the blue sky, exit, silver and gold, god part 2, until the end, fly, acrobat, gone, please, wake up dead man etc is gone... up with the sun.

Gone for you. I still get that feeling when I listen to HTDAAB.

(And for perspective Pop is my favorite U2 album.)

 

[Yahweh]

I really love the elitists selective reading ability come up with an arguement that Achtung Baby has less single worthy tracks then Bomb....bet you cant do it.

 

[Zoots]

The feeling of Streets and Pride is still there in COBL. Desire in Vertigo. Zooropa, the song, and HMTMKMKM in LAPOE. ISHFWILF in Crumbs. SYCMIOYO is the personalised version of the universal One. I could go on and on; it's just that you want U2 to do what YOU want and make Achtung Part II, and you're pissed that they're making what they feel like making. Get over it already.

I like how you didn't mention anything from ATYCLB. At least HTDAAB is better and they're heading in the right direction.