Questions about the 'making' of the Boston DVD....

[Angel]

Ok. So we have all probably talked this topic to death, but as I was watching bits and pieces of it tonight on MuchMusic, I noticed some things.

First off... is the live recording (audio) tampered with in any way? What I mean by that is... for example... during 'Stuck In A Moment', Bono has the shaker thingy in his hand... but you can hear the sound it makes even when he isn't shaking it. Like they have 'added' to the live performance after the fact during editing etc... To make the song sound better. Perhaps more studio. I don't think it's such a bad thing if they do... but don't exactly find it necessarry. Part of the appeal of the live experience is the rawness of it. To perfect it does in a way take away from the actual show.

Secondly... I noticed that during the 'Making of' documentary on the DVD, Hamish was talking about how the first night they had the lighting all wrong and that Bono said it looked like a 'Disney movie'. So they scrapped it and knew that the next day was the real deal. From this, I understood that the show we see on the DVD was taken all from that one night, because the lighting was so different between the two performances, they weren't going to be able to splice them together. Now, if this is true, that is the same night U2 went live during 'Streets' to the NBA. During the 'Making of' documentary when they show how precise the transition was to the live broadcast, they show the beginning of 'Streets' and I believe Bono says 'welcome NBA' or something to that effect. I can't remember the exact phrase. Anyway, on the DVD performance of 'Streets' there is no reference made by Bono what so ever in regards to the NBA. So, was this performance taken from the night before? The so called 'Disney' night, or did they dub out Bono's reference to the NBA for whatever reason?

I know these are all nick picky things, but things I noticed and am curious about. I think the DVD is fabulous, so these are in no ways complaints, just observations. I am one of those neurotic people that looks for continuity in movies. lol I can't help it. As much as I enjoy a film, I enjoy the process of making it.

Oh, and one last thing... as far as performances go... how do you think the perfromance captured on the DVD rates? I was lucky enough to see 4 Elevation gigs. At least one from each leg, and I'd have to say that Boston was a really great show. Top performance. (And yes, it is possible for U2 to have a less than great show).

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I disappeared in you
You disappeared from me
I gave you everything you ever wanted,
It wasn't what you wanted

[This message has been edited by Angel (edited 01-29-2002).]

 

[bono_man]

Dearest Angel...

Yes some major editing has occured on the DVD. Some of the sounds and sights have been brought in from the 'Disney show' in particular the 'salt to the sea' part of Kite. In the second show Bono forgot this part and its been brought in from Boston #1. Hence, he sings it at the end of the song too...

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"we're free to fly the crimson sky...the sun won't melt our wings tonight..."

 

[Angel]

Oh Jonny, you make me feel sooooo special. (BTW, Just got back from cute boy's place. heh, heh, heh).

 

[bono_man]

Originally posted by Angel:
Oh Jonny, you make me feel sooooo special. (BTW, Just got back from cute boy's place. heh, heh, heh).

Oh my god!!!!!!:O lol

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"we're free to fly the crimson sky...the sun won't melt our wings tonight..."

[This message has been edited by bono_man (edited 01-29-2002).]

 

[bono_man]

get online!

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"we're free to fly the crimson sky...the sun won't melt our wings tonight..."

 

[Angel]

I am bumping my own thread - how pathetic is that? Wanna know the answers!!!!!!!!!!

 

[the olive]

Unfortunately the DVD is a bit of a chop job. You'll have to go back to some of the posts in this forum from Nov/Dec to find the precise scenes that were cut from each night. I think most of the audio from the 6th (second show) was used, with video from both nights.

I am probably one of the few who is dissapointed with the DVD. It is entertaining, but has numerous flaws IMO. I have over 30 live concert DVD's, and U2's rates pretty low in the pack. First of all, there is no excuse for cutting songs. The DVD format could easily fit the full show, as well as a DTS soundtrack on one disc. At worst they would have to put "The making of" onto disc two, which has plenty of room left for more material. Secondly, why weren't some of the newer technologies used- ie: DTS, widescreen, film instead of video? Other bands have done it, why not U2? And lastly, I am unimpressed with the video production and editing. Why do so many shots go in and out of focus? Why do all the cameras shake? I understand that these "effects" are seen as artistic by some, but it comes of looking like a music video and not a live performance. It just doesn't have the "you're actually there" feeling to it.

AC/DC (Munich), Paul Simon, The Who, The Eagles and several others have released stunning quality live DVD's. U2's DVD is sadly not in the realm of the best - where they belong. Hopefully they give Zoo Tv and Popmart first class transfers. I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

 

[pub crawler]

Originally posted by Angel:
First off... is the live recording (audio) tampered with in any way?

They undoubtedly sweetened the audio, which is standard and acceptable.

During the 'Making of' documentary when they show how precise the transition was to the live broadcast, they show the beginning of 'Streets' and I believe Bono says 'welcome NBA' or something to that effect. I can't remember the exact phrase. Anyway, on the DVD performance of 'Streets' there is no reference made by Bono what so ever in regards to the NBA. So, was this performance taken from the night before? The so called 'Disney' night, or did they dub out Bono's reference to the NBA for whatever reason?

During Streets, the performance on the monitors in the director's booth match the other cam perspectives. I believe they used the NBA halftime performance for the DVD and simply edited out Bono's reference to the NBA in the full screen version, however the whole thing is tricky I won't discount the possibility that at certain points in the song they cut the two nights together.

Oh, and one last thing... as far as performances go... how do you think the perfromance captured on the DVD rates?

I LOVE IT. I love this DVD and I watch parts of it every so often.

 

[pub crawler]

Originally posted by the olive:

It just doesn't have the "you're actually there" feeling to it.

Wow, I couldn't disagree more. Perhaps you have a more discriminating eye than I do, though. Have you worked in tv/film production?

 

[sulawesigirl4]

Regarding the "you're there" feel...I couldn't disagree more. I watched the DVD last week at the home of some great fellow fans with an awesome home audio system...surround sound turned up etc. It felt like being at one of the shows. As close as I'm ever going to get to reliving them anyways.

 

[the olive]

Originally posted by pub crawler:
Wow, I couldn't disagree more. Perhaps you have a more discriminating eye than I do, though. Have you worked in tv/film production?

Other than as a cameraman/editor for some college productions, no. But I am entitled to an opinion.
Let me try to clarify... There are numerous instances during the production when we get less than desireable camera angles and overwhelming zooms. Bono gets far too much camera time, especially during Edge's solos. Just when a shot gets interesting, we get a quick edit to an out of focus shaking view of something else - perhaps Bono's back as he walks up the heart. There are very few level, in focus views of the full stage. Every shot seems to be a quick MTV style transition angle. It gets tiring.

Go back and watch Zoo Tv and Popmart. They are much more conventional productions. Longer shots, less camera movement, always in focus. Those other productions also give the other guys more camera time as well. They are also taken from ONE show, with minimal editing - in my oppinion it shows.

 

[pub crawler]

Originally posted by the olive:

Other than as a cameraman/editor for some college productions, no. But I am entitled to an opinion.

Absolutely!! I apologize if I implied otherwise. I really thought by your comments that you probably work in production. (I have a little experience in tv production myself, but it's been a few years since then and by no means do I claim to be an expert).

I will say that the night of the NBA halftime show, I posted here that I thought the live direction was lacking, although I thought the photography itself was beautiful. Hamish was directing and I thought he missed on some of his shot selection. But as for the taped production, I think he did a good job.

 

[the olive]

If I sound like I hate it, I don't! In fact I do enjoy it, I just prefer the more conventional earlier videos.

I think they (director/editors) realised this show (Elevation) wasn't as visual as the earlier tours, so they tried to make up for that with more creative filming techniques. IMO they met with only partial success.

I still wonder if Willy Williams is impressed with the final product, since he designed so much of the show. Anyone know?

 

[Angel]

Originally posted by the olive:
I think they (director/editors) realised this show (Elevation) wasn't as visual as the earlier tours, so they tried to make up for that with more creative filming techniques.

Yes, I agree. This tour would not have suited regular format concert footage. It would have looked boring (though we know having been to the shows, it was far from boring). But I think the artsy technique is cool. I agree at times the editing is too much like a music video, and the blurriness can be annoying, but on the whole, I like it alot. I actually prefer it over ZooTv and Popmart. It has a more professional feel.

Still kinda wished they had kept it more raw--> left the footage to one show, but is that what they have always done? Was Zootv and Popmart filmed over two nights?
It still baffles me why two of their best live performances were cut. But hey, they cut songs from ZooTv and Popmart too and that sucked just as bad.

 

[Diemen]

Originally posted by the olive:
Let me try to clarify... There are numerous instances during the production when we get less than desireable camera angles and overwhelming zooms. Bono gets far too much camera time, especially during Edge's solos. Just when a shot gets interesting, we get a quick edit to an out of focus shaking view of something else - perhaps Bono's back as he walks up the heart. There are very few level, in focus views of the full stage. Every shot seems to be a quick MTV style transition angle. It gets tiring.

Go back and watch Zoo Tv and Popmart. They are much more conventional productions. Longer shots, less camera movement, always in focus.

Actually, the longer shots, less camera movement, always in focus as you describe it are what makes the Popmart video lack the "I am there" aspect. I think the admittedly rapidfire changing of camera views, shake and mtv like transitions as you say actually help put me into the concert experience. When I'm at the concert, my focus of attention is always shifting - I'm always eager to see what Edge is doing while Bono is out on the catwalk, or what Adam and Larry are doing while Edge is jamming away, so I'm looking around a lot, and I think the editing of the Boston DVD conveys this - it doesn't stick to one shot too long because that's what the average concert goer does. Especially for those of us who ventured into the heart, the Boston DVD really does a good job of capturing some of that atmosphere. I haven't watched the Popmart video in it's entirety, but from what i saw, it seemed too much like a movie of the event, rather than a recreation of the concert, if that makes sense. not that I don't really enjoy the popmart video, but I think the Boston DVD does a much better job of putting me in the concert, whereas the popmart video does a good job of showing me the concert.

Maybe in terms of pure technological quality of editing and mixing, it's not up with others and doesn't use the latest techniques (and some of the editing isn't as smooth as possible), but it's my favorite concert video in terms of pulling me into it.

 

[ZOOTB]

Yeah, I like how they state on the dvd that it is all June 6th, but some of it is from June 5th. I know for fact that "Gone" is June 5th cause I was there and it's the only time I've ever seen or heard of Edge slamming and kicking his guitar. Just wish I knew for sure (out of all the songs), which was the 5th and which was the 6th. Guess one would have to try to sit and analyze it song by song. I did notice that Bono has a zit on his left cheek, so maybe it is bigger or smaller or gone one of the nights. Sorry but it's the only way I can think of to try to tell the 2 nights apart. The only ones I'm sure of are:
1) Gone - 5th (Edge flipping out on guitar)
2) WOWY - 6th (cause he didn't pull anyone on stage on the 5th)
3) Stay - 5th (wasn't even played on the 6th)
4) Wake up dead man- 6th (wasn't played on the 5th)
I would love to try to figure out what other ones are from the 5th. I also still cannot understand why Mysterious Ways was left off the dvd. This is my only disappointment with it.

 

[amybatt]

Originally posted by Angel:
Now, if this is true, that is the same night U2 went live during 'Streets' to the NBA. During the 'Making of' documentary when they show how precise the transition was to the live broadcast, they show the beginning of 'Streets' and I believe Bono says 'welcome NBA' or something to that effect. I can't remember the exact phrase. Anyway, on the DVD performance of 'Streets' there is no reference made by Bono what so ever in regards to the NBA. So, was this performance taken from the night before? The so called 'Disney' night, or did they dub out Bono's reference to the NBA for whatever reason?

I don't know for certain, but I'd say that if they had left it in, certain viewers (namely those people who aren't like us and know every last detail about what the band did on tour) would've heard "Going live to the NBA" and said "what the hell is that all about?" It wouldn't have made sense to the person watching it who didn't know that the band was doing halftime during the game that night. Perhaps too there's some commercial reason they didn't say NBA, I dunno about that though.

I thought the DVD captured those two shows pretty well, since I was at all 4 in Boston. However, I'd rather have had the 4th night in Boston or either night in Providence, which were more U2 show than my sense could handle. I think though that you'll never capture that sort of show on film, as the band seem to be too uptight on filming nights.

Amy

 

[Diemen]

My biggest gripe is that they cut songs. It seems like there was plenty of room on the second disc for more stuff, and they could've kept all the songs on the setlist and just split them on both discs. Maybe U2 wanted it all to be in one go so it was continuous like the show, rather than have to switch discs in the middle. Who knows, but I really wish they'd at least kept One in there, that's a mandatory song at U2 concerts.

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I've conquered my past
The future is here at last
I stand at the entrance
To a new world I can see
The ruins to the right of me
Will soon have lost sight of me
Love rescue me

 

[the olive]

U2 played two nights in Mexico City for Popmart, December 2nd and 3rd 1997. The second show was the one filmed, although the first show was probably filmed as a dress rehearsal. I actually rented a cable box and ordered the pay per view to watch the show live. There are some interesting little differences in the pay per view and the official video, but no songs were cut. It is the full show.

 

[Angel]

Originally posted by the olive:
There are some interesting little differences in the pay per view and the official video, but no songs were cut. It is the full show.

You're talking about the pay per view right? 'Cause 'Lemon' was cut from the video.

 

[u2zed]

I haven't read older threads on this topic, so I don't know how much of this has been covered before. But.

I wonder if it's only audio that's taken from June 5th, not video. Of course they made changes to correct Bono's mishap in Gone and erased him saying "going live to the NBA" in Streets, but might they have done this only with the audio track? Just a thought.

Also, it doesn't really do any good to wonder which songs are from the 5th and which are from the 6th. Any footage and audio from the 5th that has worked its way in isn't going to be in the form of an entire song. It's just going to be patchwork on the stuff from the 6th. So for example, we have a version of Streets without the NBA reference, which suggests it's from the 5th, but as you watch it you see that it is in fact the same Streets that was broadcast on the 6th -- it's just been tampered with a little.

Finally, 2 things I don't see mentioned here.

One, the end of the Fly has been doctored in the DVD, at least visually. Bono ran through the crowd and out the back of the arena at the end of the song on the 6th (I know because he ran smack into my hands as he passed). But as you all know, on the DVD he's shown running in circles around the heart. This is either extra footage from the 6th of when he was running in circles earlier in the song, or it's from the 5th.

The other thing is the infamous "Bono cam" shots. These are all from June 9th, as that was the only night he wore the camera in his glasses. As the mention in the "making of" video, he couldn't be persuaded to wear it during official taping because it required some bulky gear.

Incidentally, if you read the reviews on amazon.com of the DVD, there are a whole lot of people who are unhappy with the camera work on this recording. And I think PopMart isn't necessarily the best example to look to for quality "traditional" cutting -- that would be Zoo TV in Sydney.

(Personally, when I first watched the Elevation DVD, I thought I was going to have a seizure out of frustration at the quick camera cuts -- does Hamish Hamilton have ADD?)

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just as I am I awoke with a tear on my tongue

"Our Bono is indeed a mighty force. He walks into a room and all the air gets sucked right out. He is completely magnetic." -Shirley Manson

 

[the olive]

Originally posted by Angel:

You're talking about the pay per view right? 'Cause 'Lemon' was cut from the video.

Hmmmm. You're talking about the remix before they come out in the Lemon right? I haven't watched the official video in a while, did they cut it?

 

[the olive]

I just checked the video, Lemon (remix) is in there. At least on the canadain release the full show is there.

 

[Angel]

Originally posted by the olive:
I just checked the video, Lemon (remix) is in there. At least on the canadain release the full show is there.

Well smack me upside the head, I haven't watched it in it's entirety, but 'Lemon' ain't listed on the set. Hmmm

*Inserts Popmart Mexico in VCR...

 

[the olive]

The band never actually performed the song on the tour, the remix was just played while they entered the "super futuristic fruit spaceship".

 

[Angel]

Originally posted by the olive:
"super futuristic fruit spaceship".

LMAO!!!!!

I can't believe I missed Popmart.

 

[the olive]

The whole Lemon thing seems silly in hindsight, but to actually stand at the b-stage when that thing came out was a near religeous experience! The lemon would open and 50 thousand people would cheer, and the band would all keep totally straight faces. They were serious! About what I've never been able to figure out, but I miss Popmart. Sure Elevation was the real honest U2 up close, but Popmart was U2 playing with your head, your eyes and your ears.

 

[Angel]

I know, the dropping of songs, just doesn't make sense.
I heard they dropped 'TTTYAATW' from ZooTv Sydney because legality reasons, and an underaged person onstage drinking alcohol... but the songs left out on the DVD just don't make any sense. The lighting for Mysterious Ways was so beautiful and One is such a classic. It pisses me off.

 

[elevatedmole]

Was Zootv and Popmart filmed over two nights?

ZooTV Sydney: they originally planned on practicing the first night and filming the real thing on the second night, but Adam was "sick" and had to get some backstage guy -- Stuart, I think? So they only taped the second night.
Popmart Mexico City: They were only there one night, if I remember correctly.

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"Very strange looking object you have at the end of your stick.." - Bono

"Don't call me Shirley." - Larry

"I was drunk, high on him, a shrinking, shadowboxing dwarf following in his foosteps...badly...STARSTRUCK.." - Bono, on meeting Frank Sinatra for the first time

"Bono? Bono is going to tie ropes around my neck? Wait a minute.." - Edge, when shooting the 'Numb' video