Question for everyone

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U2girl said:
I've been away for a week and I've been reading the pages on this forum, to check back on any U2 news. Curiously, there are two anti-ATYCLB threads (disguised, but that's what they are): Basstrap's "endulge my rant" and, a spin off-thread (which I thought is not allowed), from Michael Griffiths "I miss U2's mistakes".

Now, I know musical taste can't be debated and opinions are different, but I can't remember the last time Pop bashing thread occured, while with ATYCLB it happens over and over and over again. It's gotten really old now.

Hasn't it been enough?
U2girl,

Re-read my thread. It's not an "anti-ATYCLB" thread at all. And the title, by the way, doesn't have the word "mistakes" in it. It's the complete opposite to "mistakes" actually....a totally different concept.

Secondly, my post wasn't just discussing ATYCLB. I was speaking of both Pop and ATYCLB. You really should re-read my post! It was a discussion thread, not like this one, which appears more like an odd attempt to silence discussion. This being a discussion board, I find that a little odd.
 
djerdap said:


If Beautiful Day and Kite are heavy, I'm gonna jump from a 37th floor. I mean it. New York can't smell Love is Blindness's feet! Love is Blindness is a pure rock song in its live rendition. Edge's solos are chilling. Try find version from Birmingham, June 1st 1992. Kite isn't heavier than One.
And, to finish the cycle...
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Peace on Earth compared to Zoo Station. When I Look at the World compared to Mysterious Ways(especially live version).
Did I miss something?
C'mon, man, do you really believe ATYCLB is as heavy as Joshua or Achtung. It is the mellowest U2 record ever! There is nothing rock in it(expect maybe New York guitar or When I Look at the World solo). And please, don't say Beautiful Day or ELEVATION. Pop songs at their finest, just using guitars and drums as masks. Which isn't a bad thing(at least not the first one).
Oh yeah! In a Little While opposed to Ultra Violet.
I'm gonna skip Wild Horses...for obvious reasons.
:wink:

If we're using live versions, you still come up short.
Live versions of New York, Beautiful Day, and Elevation are as rock and roll as anything off AB or JT, or any other U2 record.
 
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Sometimes I read these sorts of threads and it occurs to me that either I have no fucking life or that some people have entirely too much time on their hands. :|
 
anitram said:
Sometimes I read these sorts of threads and it occurs to me that either I have no fucking life or that some people have entirely too much time on their hands. :|
It's probably a little from column A a little from column B.
 
I was also called a 1000 lbs gorilla for asking why we needed all these threads essentially on the same thing. I find it truly amazing that someone actually found some type of offense in my posts on that thread. Each their own.

Anyway, since we are discussing this yet again, I will give my take again. I think its just plain boredom at this point. Its been almost 4 years since U2 released new material and 3 years since they were on tour. We need something new to talk about. Hey, everyone has a right to express their opinions and this is a discussion board. My problem is that its the same people, discussing the same thing (or very similiar), saying the exact same thing over and over and over and over. It just gets old after awhile. For those that say just dont read it. Well, its difficult when every time you pull up the front page on the forum there is a thread or several threads with this very topic. Its gets to almost dominate the forum sometimes. That I don't care for.

Hopefully it will all end with the new album. There will be the traditional heated debates such as "U2 sold out", "the new album sucks", "the new album is the greatest" my personal fav each tour "the setlist sucks, they arent playing my favorite obscure songs!" and so on. At least it will be about new material and shows and that will at least be something fresh. I can't wait to see all the pissed off people when the new album is not Van Halen style guitar riffs, with Metallica "Enter Sandman" intros LOL ;) It will be funny and at least interesting.
 
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anitram said:
or that some people have entirely too much time on their hands. :|

You could say that , especially if someone has thousand of posts, comes here almost everyday during the last 3 or 4 years. Everything is boring and everything is the same. But there are new fans who didn't get the chance to express their opinion or even participate in the debate so think about it. All music topics should be allowed here without restrictions IMO.
 
U2girl said:
That's not really true, and we all know it. Just like ATYCLB's threads often turn nasty, so did Pop's. (with the whole "but you didn't get it" argument) I don't recall anti-Pop threads being closed but never mind.

I am not the first one nor the last one that said something about the reocurring bashing obsession by some people, so let's not go to the "don't read it if you don't like it" part either. How about "don't post it if you know it will upset others?" instead?
that's funny. anti-pop threads have been closed before. i think i may have even closed some. it's funny how people with a different point of view seem to conveniently forget that other threads get closed other than those they seem to hone in on.

and no, we're not about to have certain topics forbidden from discussion here. it's one thing to have something offensive (like say, nazism) be banned from discussion, but a U2 album? you've got to be joking. just because a few people find it offensive is by no means justification to forbid people from discussing it. you know, you really shouldn't let these threads get to you. it's just a thread, about a U2 album for crying out loud.

some people like pop, some people don't. some people like atyclb, some people don't. some people like both albums, some like neither. you (or anyone else for that matter) shouldn't let it get to you so much that others just don't see what you see in an album. it's art, not everyone understands it, gets it, or likes it like you do. that's what makes it art.
 
Well said Blue room!

Angela Harlem: like I said, hasn't it been enough of the same old stuff? Still I don't see how you equal ATYCLB bashing with the questioning/positive posts on that album. I see how it is a problem with negative posts, but why is it a problem if it's a positive thread?
I'm just a bit tired of seeing it beaten up to the ground, and it's even more annoying to see that those who don't share that opinion are called whinging and bitching. (by ratio I meant there's heaps more anti ATYCLB threads than, say anti Pop threads)
I'd rather not say anything on the "no leg to stand on" comment.

Mikal: saying "ATYCLB is crap", "I hate it" and similar posts is not debating/discussion, much as some would like to call it. It's the way it's done that is troubling.

Michael Griffiths: we heard the "it was not experimental/daring/unconventional" argument a million times before, too. Beating a dead horse, and all that. I did read your thread and responed to it, too.

KhanadaRhodes: Pop threads being closed or not, that does not change my points. Of course you can't understand art, you either like it or not, but the main argument that would come up any time anyone questioned Pop was exactly that: "you didn't get it." :huh: So art (and music is surely a part of it) is something you either get or not?
A few people? Not really, but never mind that.

:wave: Hey cass! :laugh: Good post. :D
 
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OK, this thread is titled "Question for everyone" so here goes. I haven't heard either Pop or ATYCLB all the way through (in fact I'm not quite sure what that acronym even stands for...). You see, I consider myself a U2 fan, but really only of their earlier work. Their new work (and for me new work is anything after Rattle and Hum, and even that was only so-so for me) leaves me cold.

But for several years in the mid 80's I lived and breathed U2 (kinda like I do now with The Church, beli ;) ). So what the hell happened? Well, I was a teenager when I first heard and loved U2. Listening to U2 was wonderful! I'd never heard a band quite like them, and I thought I'd love them forever. But I grew and changed. And U2 grew and changed. And we didn't change in the same way. And neither of us is wrong, we are just different.

I consider each album from a band to be a step in a journey, and of course, I'm on my own journey as well. Sometimes the band will zig and I'll zag; other times we will both zig (or zag). U2 and I simply went two vastly different ways (and that separation is intensified by the length of their career). I do feel a bit of sadness that our paths have become so divergent, yet I would not be happy with War: Volume 8 .

I understand that it is tough to read criticism of a band you love, but for someone zigging while the band is zagging it can be what keeps him or her connected enough to the band to even care when their paths cross again (if that happens). And from what I have read, the discussions here are not particularly vicious (trust me...I've read much worse). Some people just like to discuss, dissect, and debate everything, and don't mind exploring the same topic several times. Just think of it like sex. You don't do it once and then say "OK, been there, done that" and never have sex again do you? Most of us like to keep doing it, over and over and over again! :D

One last point (someone else also mentioned it), just because some have read and participated in these discussions doesn't mean everyone has. There are new people joining every day and they might really enjoy these discussions. If every topic was discussed only once this board would be no more.
 
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Next time anybody gets upset about this whole ATYCLB/Pop argument, or October is crap, or whatever new arguments How to Dismantle Yahweh brings - go for a walk, skip in the park, eat chocolate, or visit the burns unit of your local hospital.
 
U2girl said:
Mikal: saying "ATYCLB is crap", "I hate it" and similar posts is not debating/discussion, much as some would like to call it. It's the way it's done that is troubling.

but if that's how people want to express themselves, then they have that right, whether you like to read it or not.
 
To be truthful, I've made it a point in my life to not get annoyed or feeling anything about people who choose to overly discuss albums or those who overly defend them. I choose to not get annoyed over it and that suits me fine. I could really care less!

If we're going to silence discussions that are anti- something-related-to-U2 based on their annoyance and dead horse factor, let's delete FYM, b/c that's related to Politics and not strictly related to U2 - b/c hell, much of the discussion in that forum scares and offends the shit out of me, but you know that, I CHOOSE not to read it. That's right, I just go on my merry way and visit threads I care to visit and leave the rest alone. I CHOOSE not to go into election/gay marriage, etc threads and scream "Dead Horse" because they're not! They are issues that people deserve to have the freedom to discuss ad nauseum on a discussion board.

I love U2. I love them so much I work on Interference's Zine all the live long day every day. But you know what, I don't love all of U2's albums - and I reserve the right to discuss what I don't like when the mood strikes me, just I like I reserve the right to go in Bang & Clatter and discuss ad nauseum bands I like that others might not, and thusly might get "annoyed" by b/c the discussions are frequent. Just because we love U2 and this is a U2 discussion board (among many other things) doesn't mean that ONLY positive discussion should spring up.

We can't all go through life telling people who keeping going on and on about things that are dead horses to shut up just because their irritate us and we are ready for them to shut up. That's not how it works. You can pick your battles in life and choose things to get worked up about. People who choose to drool over Bono all day every day might annoy me sometimes, but I just leave them be. People who want to discuss ATYCLB or Pop all day every day every couple of months have the right to if they want it, I just leave them be. If we all start marking certain topics off of the discussion docket around here b/c they annoy us we'll be left with silence in two weeks time - and that is a scary thought to me.
 
U2girl said:
Well said Blue room!

Angela Harlem: like I said, hasn't it been enough of the same old stuff? Still I don't see how you equal ATYCLB bashing with the questioning/positive posts on that album. I see how it is a problem with negative posts, but why is it a problem if it's a positive thread?
I'm just a bit tired of seeing it beaten up to the ground, and it's even more annoying to see that those who don't share that opinion are called whinging and bitching. (by ratio I meant there's heaps more anti ATYCLB threads than, say anti Pop threads)
I'd rather not say anything on the "no leg to stand on" comment.

Mikal: saying "ATYCLB is crap", "I hate it" and similar posts is not debating/discussion, much as some would like to call it. It's the way it's done that is troubling.

Michael Griffiths: we heard the "it was not experimental/daring/unconventional" argument a million times before, too. Beating a dead horse, and all that. I did read your thread and responed to it, too.

KhanadaRhodes: Pop threads being closed or not, that does not change my points. Of course you can't understand art, you either like it or not, but the main argument that would come up any time anyone questioned Pop was exactly that: "you didn't get it." :huh: So art (and music is surely a part of it) is something you either get or not?
A few people? Not really, but never mind that.

:wave: Hey cass! :laugh: Good post. :D

I have read the threads in question with great interest. And I did not find these threads repetitive or "the same old stuff" at all (however, that may be because I don't visit Interference as often as some who post here do). I think that (on the whole) some intelligent and interesting discussions were going on. I seem to recall that people who complained about there being threads on the subjects at all were said, by some, to be whingeing, rather than people who disagreed. I am glad there are threads like this on Interference; I enjoy reading other people's opinions, whether I agree with them or not. It would be very boring - for me, anyway - to read positive post after positive post.
 
U2girl said:
I've been away for a week and I've been reading the pages on this forum, to check back on any U2 news. Curiously, there are two anti-ATYCLB threads (disguised, but that's what they are): Basstrap's "endulge my rant" and, a spin off-thread (which I thought is not allowed), from Michael Griffiths "I miss U2's mistakes".

Now, I know musical taste can't be debated and opinions are different, but I can't remember the last time Pop bashing thread occured, while with ATYCLB it happens over and over and over again. It's gotten really old now.

Hasn't it been enough?


Well, this is probably going to misinterpreted by someone, but I happened to be reading "The Hobbit" today, and when I saw this thread, I was reminded of this passage from the book:

Now it is a strange thing, but when things that are good to have and days that are good to spend are soon told about, and not much to listen to; while things that are uncomfortable, palpitating, and even gruesome, may make a good tale, and take a deal of telling anyway.

In other words, folks talk more about things they don't like/think are bad than things they do like/think are good. Being in customer service for most of my working life, I know this first hand. People are quick to bitch and keep on bitching when something goes wrong (from their perspective at least), but rarely think to praise when something goes right/as expected.

Bah.. babbled enough for one night...

}:)~
 
mikal said:


but if that's how people want to express themselves, then they have that right, whether you like to read it or not.

What happened to the right of not having to read the same old complaints for 4 years (and who knows how much longer)? Aren't we supposed to be able to find something positive in any and each of U2's albums?

Ah yes, long live the mentality "I don't care what others think, I will say what I want."

Here's another wisdom: if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.

Michael: if you read the start of this thread, it clearly says why I didn't reply sooner to your thread.
 
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FLAME ON:

GoEnglish_com_BeatADeadHorse.gif


FLAME OFF:
 
personally I am still of the opinion that a U2 forum shouldn't be a place of negativity re. U2
not to undermine anyone's right to their opinion or their freedom of speech, but to me there must be better places for U2 negativity than this place

some would claim that this is the perfect place for this though
because it's quite obvious that some albums have caused some people so much psychological stress that the only way they can lead a normal life while feeling the band they love did not make make an album they like is by spewing about that over here every 3 weeks

I could avoid those threads, but I get a lot of pleasure out of them in a sick kinda way :up:

the threads started by Basstrap and Michael Griffith weren't all that negative though
for the most part they were interesting (even though the line where personal opinion starts was crossed a couple of times without really recognising this)
so I have no idea why we're having this discussion right now really
 
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Salome said:
personally I am still of the opinion that a U2 forum shouldn't be a place of negativity re. U2
not to undermine anyone's right to their opinion or their freedom of speech, but to me there must be better places for U2 negativity than this place

some would claim that this is the perfect place for this though
because it's quite obvious that some albums have caused some people so much psychological stress that the only way they can lead a normal life while feeling the band they love did not make make an album they like is by spewing about that over here every 3 weeks


so I have no idea why we're having this discussion right now really

You just said why in those two paragraphs.
 
I'll keep this quite simple.

As a fly once said, taste is the enemy of art.

Another note - I think we all need to keep in mind that there are new fans joining this site all the time. And surely, with the new album coming out soon, there will be a horde of new fans joining this wonderful place. As they do so, they all have a right to enjoy and experience the place as we have. To suggest or even to hint how albums and songs are to be discussed restricts that freedom to explore and experience this site. Regardless of that number under your name each and every one of us should appreciate a new face on this site and remember that at some point, that "new face" was also us.
 
Hrmm... Here's a thought...

Say I am listening to Pop or ATYCLB one day and I notice a pitch shift in Bono's voice that I hadn't noticed before, or a misstep in key change with a song's instrumentation and I want to post about it to see if anyone else noticed it too. Should I stop myself from doing this because others will perceive it as beating a dead horse even if I have no hidden agenda?

If Interference isn't the place for a discussion of all U2 related matter - good and bad - then perhaps we should put it in the FAQ. Further, if Interference is not the place to discuss certain things over and over again if some so choose, we should put that in the FAQ as well. Or we should put a topper on the amounts of discussion that will spring up over "Vertigo" and those who do or do not like it. Or, for those of us who don't like something, should we just go talk about it elsewhere so that happy happy joy joy I love U2 can exist with no opposition ever?

I look at it as "tough love" -- a strategy that is the basis for all interaction in my family. That doesn't mean we don't love each other to the bone, it just means that we will be realistic with each other if we see things we don't like. I see it the same way for the Interference family when it comes to U2.
 
U2girl said:


What happened to the right of not having to read the same old complaints for 4 years (and who knows how much longer)? Aren't we supposed to be able to find something positive in any and each of U2's albums?


you have the right! don't click on the damn thread! LOL! if you're that scarred by criticism of an album, then honestly, i don't know what to tell you.

Ah yes, long live the mentality "I don't care what others think, I will say what I want."

the problem with that statement is you're blowing this way out of proportion.

if a thread is started about either Pop or ATYCLB, people have the right to either say something positive OR negative about the album. that's their RIGHT.

people aren't saying negative things about the album in spite of anyone one else, they're saying it because that's how they feel.

If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.

raping someone of their right to free speech is something i will never endorse.
 
Thanks Hello Angel...tastefully said. what is so wrong with criticism anyways (CONSTRUCTIVE OR DESTRUCTIVE)? this is an open forum and i haven't witnessed much of any personal attacks in these latest threads about u2, pop, atyclb, and thats the only thing i can see as wrong. otherwise, we're sharing where each of us comes from and what we think about the art. i have a suggestion that might help...if you've ever made anything in your life and wanted feedback on how it turned out, well here's U2's Feedback...HOLY SHIT THATS THE SITES NAME!!!
 
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HelloAngel said:
If Interference isn't the place for a discussion of all U2 related matter - good and bad - then perhaps we should put it in the FAQ.
I think the key word is discussion
I have no problem with any good discussion and that's why I have no problem with the threads by Basstrap and Michael Griffith which were mentioned in this thread

I don't like to create some kind of 'everything goes' mentality though
because continious bashing of a band on a fan forum can always be considered trolling

discussing both the negatives and positives about a band is being a fan of music
 
Some people just simply can't wrap their head around the fact that U2 aren't making music to suit their personal tastes or needs.

They've obviously touched a chord with most of you sometime in your life or you certainly wouldn't be over on this forum reading and writing about them if it were otherwise.

I don't mind criticism of anything about U2, it's actually silly to get upset about it. You either like it or you don't.

The problem with the subjectivity of art, or music in this case, is that because an artist made X for you, and you loved it, that people automatically assume fault in the artist if Y or Z didn't fit their expectations, or wants or needs.

If you are on this forum 4 years after the fact, still rehashing the same old, tired criticisms of ATYCLB, then it's not to say the criticisms aren't legitimate, but don't you, at some point have to look at your own perspective and re-evaluate it?

If the album didn't meet your approval, then fine. There are probably thousands upon thousands of hours of music all over the planet that doesn't meet your approval either.

What you need to do is find those elements somewhere else. Branch out, listen to other music, stop looking to U2 for something that they aren't. Stop wanting them to be what you need or want.

If U2 aren't meeting your expectations, then the problem isn't with them, it's you. They are the musicians, the artists, they speak from the heart, and give you what comes from their heart and soul. And if you don't like it, well quite simply, maybe you just aren't in tune with them and what they are trying to convey.

If you heard an album from "Band #10" (hypothetical band), and you didn't like it, do you clammor for them to make an album that you DO like? Or do you look elsewhere? If "Band #10" made an album that you loved and followed it up with one you didn't, do you complain that they didn't live up to what you want?

And if you do, why is the reaction different? Maybe you need to look at your own perspectives and decide if you think you are being fair or just being a fan stuck in a phase. Maybe you want more from the idea of the band than you expect from the message in the music.

U2 are and always will be my favorite band. They've made songs that have made me cringe, put out some questionable videos and images, but I can write all of that off easily. Because when I listen to Zooropa, I don't spend any moments wondering why Babyface is such a poor song, I move myself to a religous state by listening to those tracks that I love. When I listen to albums, that maybe aren't my particualr favorites, like POP or ATYCLB, I listen for those moments that give me the U2 that I want. I don't spend time re-analyzing why I don't like the song Elevation. I just listen to Walk On, again.

Everyone is different, and everyone is going to have different tastes on just about everything. But U2 are what they are, what you shouldn't try to do is make them something that they are not. If you don't like what they are doing, then you need to try harder to find those musical vices elsewhere.

And if you can't find those creative juices, spriit and energy in other forms of music, other bands and artists, then possibly you aren't trying very hard. U2 are big, magnificent, wonderful, spiritual, eclectic, moving, and sometimes disappointing. But that happens when you have been making music for over 20 years. At some times the space you are in, in your life will not be the same as the band. Why would it? Why don't you just accept that for what it is?

With that said, to address the original thought on the thread, all opinions are equal on forums like these. Don't spend time wondering why people don't feel the same way as you, move on to the collective energy that you CAN share on this board.

Criticism of all kinds, should be welcome, but should also be subject to good discussion or debate. Whiney babies, who don't want their precious album to be criticized need to get some thicker skin. it may mean something deep and meaningful to you and nothing to someone else. That's the way it works.

Personally I have chosen that the negativity I once felt about u2 not living up to my expectations, is futile. There is no point in it, it's wasted energy and time. If you are looking at U2 to give you fuel and energy to empower you in your life, to move you, to make you believe there is something great in the songs, the idea that maybe this band is in touch with you and your psyche, well you don't have to try very hard to find those things.

Just stop concentrating on the times when they aren't in step with you. It's not going to always be there. But when it is, you should enjoy that and concentrate on that. Negative energy is the antithesis of the intention of any of U2's music, even the darker music is somehow uplifiting.

Every musical artist that I can possibly think of sees the same type of arguments in their fanbase. If you choose to belive that U2 aren't capable of touching your soul again, then why are you even here? And if you think they can, then why do you dwell on the past? Criticism is fair game, voices should be heard. But from your own perspective, aren't you just spinning your wheels if you don't look at music with a critical ear or even dwelling on what the music doesn't give you? I guess my advice is to take the good from what they've given and use that. Anything otherwise is an excersice in futility.

The new album comes out shortly and there will be no shortage of people who criticize it, no matter how good it is. Maybe I'll even criticize it myself. I certainly won't turn a deaf critical ear to the music. But ultimately, when the new music has sunk in, I'll take from it what really moves me, and let the other be.

I guess my advice and I know I am long-winded, is to let the music speak to you, and if it doesn't move you, don't waste time wondering why it didn't. Because it's not going to change the music itself, but you can change the way you look at it, or listen to it. I guess I can relate to most of you, and where you are coming from.

Thru the years I've learned to deal with disappointment in music by understanding that no band or artist is going to give you everything you need, not even U2, they just go a long way towards trying to acheive that.
 
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