POP: What Pisses Me Off

[U2_Muse]

NO! I hope for a day when Pop can be discussed for itself and what it is and what it means to people without anyone using it as reason to bash ATYCLB or different kinds of fans

It's human nature to discuss things by comparing them to what came before and what came after. I don't think that's necessarily bashing the product or those who either like or dislike it.

 

[beegee]

LOL

Bonosgirl,

I am an American...

hahaha, you got me.

 

[KhanadaRhodes]

NO! I hope for a day when Pop can be discussed for itself and what it is and what it means to people without anyone using it as reason to bash ATYCLB or different kinds of fans

sweetie, you're the first one to bring it up in this thread!

this isn't a threat or a promise or anything, just a friend suggesting that mayhaps you take a breather from this thread. don't let the fact that someone people like pop upset you so, especially since at the end of the day we're ALL U2 fans.

 

[Dalton]

sweetie, you're the first one to bring it up in this thread!

this isn't a threat or a promise or anything, just a friend suggesting that mayhaps you take a breather from this thread. don't let the fact that someone people like pop upset you so, especially since at the end of the day we're ALL U2 fans.

Sane words indeed.

And for what its worth, Kitten, I don't think the fact that you don't like POP means anything about your musical tastes ... except that they are a bit different than mine.


Cheers and Merry Christmas.

 

[U2Kitten]

You asked a question. You wanted a discussion. I answered you. You make a title like that, you must expect what you get. So hang me.

 

[Dalton]

You asked a question. You wanted a discussion. I answered you. You make a title like that, you must expect what you get. So hang me.

The title is POP: What Pisses Me Off


Several times in this thread you have tried to argue that I instigated something, but the title is not POP: You are all stupid or POP: Your Ignorance Revealed. I am not sure what you are trying to argue. The title was not (as far as I can tell) racially offensive, culturally derogatory or dismissive of anyone's view points.

You brought those dishes to the party yourself.

 

[U2Kitten]

Then what 'pisses you off'?

 

[Dalton]

Then what 'pisses you off'?

I said it in the first post. What pisses me off is that POP does not get the critical acclaim that it should. I think it is right up there with OK Computer (i.e. they both are complicated, fairly inaccessible albums) yes OKC is regarded as a masterpiece while POP is not.

Now my wife (who is a brilliant musician HATES (loathes, detests, etc.) OK Computer. Does that mean she does not know what she is talking about? No. She doesn't like it. Endo of story.


I don't think you are a fool for not liking POP. I don't think you need to be cured. But I did propose a few things that I think would have helped more fans "buy into" the POP experience. Maybe you are not one of these fans. Great.

 

[U2Kitten]

I don't see the difference between that and saying there is something wrong with critics and fans who didn't like it. There is nothing wrong with anyone, regardless of what they think of the album, and no one needs to have things pointed out to them so they can see the light or whatever you think they need to do. That's all I'm trying to say. I'm also trying to say that the band has moved on and put it behind them and it would be great if fans could too and stop complaining about it.

 

[Dalton]

I don't see the difference between that and saying there is something wrong with critics and fans who didn't like it. There is nothing wrong with anyone, regardless of what they think of the album, and no one needs to have things pointed out to them so they can see the light or whatever you think they need to do. That's all I'm trying to say. I'm also trying to say that the band has moved on and put it behind them and it would be great if fans could too and stop complaining about it.

1. Fans are biased in ways that critics are not supposed to be.

2. I would argue that the band has not moved on. The band put time and effort into remixing the songs. They have not done that with with other albums not received well.

 

[indra]

I love these threads.

 

[U2Kitten]

I would argue that the band has not moved on. The band put time and effort into remixing the songs. They have not done that with with other albums not received well.

Then doesn't that tell you that if even the band is unhappy with the album that you can't blame fans for not being satisfied? The reason they didn't redo anything else is because they didn't need to. They felt this, as J always says, was unfinished. But they have moved on with 2 later albums and they don't complain about it. It doesn't matter to them anymore, they have enough praise for other albums!

 

[Dalton]

Then doesn't that tell you that if even the band is unhappy with the album that you can't blame fans for not being satisfied? The reason they didn't redo anything else is because they didn't need to. They felt this, as J always says, was unfinished. But they have moved on with 2 later albums and they don't complain about it. It doesn't matter to them anymore, they have enough praise for other albums!

Or consider this. Perhaps U2 were satisfied with the songs, but they knew that they were not well received by fans and thought that if they did not do something differently the Best Of album would not have sold as well......


Of course this is as much speculation as what you are doing...

 

[Sicy]

Some people just NEVER learn to ignore certain threads that cause arguments. I guess its going to take drastic measures.

 

[Dalton]

Some people just NEVER learn to ignore certain threads that cause arguments. I guess its going to take drastic measures.

Hey now! I don't think there is anything in this thread that warrants closing it. If that is what you are talking about.

 

[sue4u2]

I just read this earlier, an interview in the Irish Times.
Larry says:

Quote: "I'd like to have another go at the Pop album, finish the songs and play them live. We were caught in a situation there where we had to write and record it in a year because a tour had been put in place. The album you hear still has incomplete ideas. It's not embarrassing, it's just frustrating. I still believe in those songs." Unquote.

Everyone is right it seems, as far as Pop is concerned. Some love/hate and some love to hate it. I listen to Pop on a regular basis. That doesn't make me special just my option.

U2Kitten you should follow your own advice. If you don't like Pop threads, you should skip them. Why cause yourself so much stress over something you obviously don't care for?
Peace

 

[Angela Harlem]

Does this have to happen EVERY fucking time?

Threads like this CAN get off the ground, if people let them. But instead we see this:

Total Posts: 46
User Posts
Dalton 14
U2Kitten 8
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic 3
U2_Guy 2
bonosgirl84 2
ZeroDude 2
yimou 2
Zoomerang96 1
Matthew_Page2000 1
anitram 1
KhanadaRhodes 1
U2_Muse 1
Sicy 1
Moonlit_Angel 1
jick 1
sue4u2 1
indra 1
djerdap 1
Sleep Over Jack 1
lazarus 1

2 people above all else had to nurture this into a semantic back and forth about who the fuck knows what. And if you think this is uncalled for, study the stats of this thread. Aren't the fighters sick of fighting yet? Let the discussion happen!

As I know no one is listening right now, I do need to say that yesterday I was putting in 5 cds into the stereo as I was going on a big cleaning binge. I haven't listened to any U2 in years. Literally years. Among REM, INXS and Eskimo Joe, I put in Pop as well. I have no idea why. Actually I do. I remember when I loved it. Good, happy days, before my love of U2 was drained away. I put the stereo on random and smiled. For the first time in years.

 

[ultrraviolette]

U2Kitten you should follow your own advice. If you don't like Pop threads, you should skip them. Why cause yourself so much stress over something you obviously don't care for?

This is sound advice for all of us that complain about certain types of threads

 

[Liesje]

What pisses ME off about Pop is we can't have a simple debate without childish name calling, speculation, and the mods having to come in and sort things out like we're all still in kindergarden. This is embarassing.

 

[lazarus]

You know, if you don't like POP, why bother reading threads about it? There are so many topics being discussed, it's easy to ignore the stuff that doesn't interest you. You're sick of talking about POP. I'm sick of talking about how hot Bono looks, which is why I stay away from places that cover that area.

Maybe there should be a separate forum for each album. Perhaps then it would be easier to resist the temptation to wander into "danger zones".

The original post wasn't the problem. Interrupting the dialogue just to complain about it might be.


laz

 

[Liesje]

The original post wasn't the problem. Interrupting the dialogue just to complain about it might be.

Exactly. There shouldn't need to be seperate forums for each album anyway.

 

[Sicy]

You know, if you don't like POP, why bother reading threads about it? There are so many topics being discussed, it's easy to ignore the stuff that doesn't interest you.

EXACTLY! I cant even begin to count how many threads I dont even bother opening because I know either they will not interest me or will just make me mad. MOVE ALONG to something else for gods sake! It's the same people all the time too. It really gets old.

Maybe there should be a separate forum for each album. Perhaps then it would be easier to resist the temptation to wander into "danger zones".

That wouldnt stop anything because there would still be "I love pop" or "I hate pop" threads and creating a seperate forum for it will not stop the lovers or haters from going into whichever thread and bitching and arguing their points about it over and over.

 

[U2girl]

Maybe there should be a limit as to how many pro-POP threads there can be.
I mean, no other U2 album has that many "it's good" support popping up, over and over again. It's gotten old.

I know I am tired of it when that somehow turns into "and HTDAAB/ATYCLB sucks", and most definitely I don't think we need the "but you didn't get it" or "real fans like it" attitude.
I don't appreciate being called a dumbass when it comes to my music taste. Or anyone assuming I'm not a real fan just because I like some U2 albums better than others. (like most of us do, I'm sure)

Not this thread, but it often happens, in this forum or Where the album has a name. This, I think, is the main issue that U2Kitten is adressing.

 

[Miggy D]

Maybe there should be a limit as to how many pro-POP threads there can be.
I mean, no other U2 album has that many "it's good" support popping up, over and over again. It's gotten old.

For the record, I also hate freedom.

 

[Dalton]

For the record, I also hate freedom.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha


and for the record, I am still not exactly sure why this thread is causing so much comotion.

Talking points should (imo) be:

1. Is POP as good as OK Computer?

2. Did the Discotheque video hurt the album?

3. Did the song order hurt the album?

I don't see any need to insult anyone in those questions.

 

[Aardvark747]

I do think they should've made 2 videos for Discotheque, but it was such a bizzare song, in terms of style-change, that they could probably have only made a bizzare video to accompany it..

 

[ZeroDude]

I don't think the video was a problem just didn't buy POP in massive quantities like other U2 albums it just sold in merely large amounts around the world, but the arguing about fuck knows what will continue

 

[U2Kitten]

Maybe there should be a limit as to how many pro-POP threads there can be.
I mean, no other U2 album has that many "it's good" support popping up, over and over again. It's gotten old.

I know I am tired of it when that somehow turns into "and HTDAAB/ATYCLB sucks", and most definitely I don't think we need the "but you didn't get it" or "real fans like it" attitude.
I don't appreciate being called a dumbass when it comes to my music taste. Or anyone assuming I'm not a real fan just because I like some U2 albums better than others. (like most of us do, I'm sure)

Not this thread, but it often happens, in this forum or Where the album has a name. This, I think, is the main issue that U2Kitten is adressing.

May God bless you and may you have happiness and prosperity always for being the only person here who understands what I am trying to say!!! I know you have seen this as much as I have, and THAT'S what I'm talking about, not the things I get accused of by others.

Y'know, the old 'if you don't like it stay out of it' shit should also go for those who always bring it up. If they don't want to hear negative comments, why start the thread? If I live to be 100 I will never understand why anyone, especially the mods, can't see that! So let's see, they're allowed to bring it up and anyone who disagrees with them is bad. But if I start a negative thread and get jumped on, what do I hear? 'what did you expect'? well that's what I'm saying here! Hard to believe after all this time only ONE person understands what I mean.


So to all those both friend and foe dissing and/or lecturing me, what U2girl said!!

 

[U2Kitten]

U2kitten... Good points

Okay! 2 people! Thanks!

 

[TheBrazilianFly]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha


and for the record, I am still not exactly sure why this thread is causing so much comotion.

Talking points should (imo) be:

1. Is POP as good as OK Computer?

2. Did the Discotheque video hurt the album?

3. Did the song order hurt the album?

I don't see any need to insult anyone in those questions.

1. Of course not man. Pop's music, lyrics, melodies and messages are a lot more dense in my opinion. Every song on that record is a little world by it self. That must be the ultimate achievement for a songwriter and I thing U2 gets there with every song on this album. It's funny how this album is called POP since all the songs are so not pop and so not commercial for the exception of a few moments. I love it. Maybe this is the problem, every song has a lot to take in, it's not easy to understand it all immediately. And maybe that's bad for the record’s expected fast popularity but it's good in a long term for the listeners.

2. I really don't know but I can't believe people would let that be the judge if the album is good or not. I think if people didn't like the album it's because they just didn't liked the new sounds and the different approach. I like the video so much, Discothèque has such a relaxed and "let's just have some fun" feel that I think a video like that would be expected. It's the most commercial song on the record I think along with Last Night On Earth in terms of message. It doesn't take much to get into it but I guess you either get into it or you don't. The video is hilarious, I wonder if people were expecting something really serious like in the 80's even after all they did with AB and Zooropa.

3. I don't know why it would. It's the most balanced tracking list. MAYBE the use of the songs with a very direct dance feel and beats and stuff could have scared some people away but I think that's the album they wanted to make and why should they try to find a track list that hides that important part of the album. They weren't ashamed of the album were they? I don't think so. I can't see those songs anywhere else in the list.


Just one thing that I don't understand is how come they did the whole tour arrangement before they even finished the album? I mean who does that? U2 was already big then, why did the record company rush them when they were in the studio? Shouldn’t they by then already have the freedom that they have today? It's just weird.