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Old 05-30-2007, 10:10 AM   #41
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Exciting setlist? I guess it all boils down to whether you prefer Pop or Achtung Baby songs (live that is). And yes, it becomes static when you have big pre-programmed videowalls to synch with. Of the three shows I saw during the Popmart tour, they never changed the setlist. Of the shows I saw during the Zoo TV tour, I got a couple of surprises in the setlist. But that's just my experience. And, to make it clear, I love the extravaganza of Popmart. It will look beautiful on my tv by the time the dvd comes out ('round christmas time, I guess... ) And it DID feel spectacular back in 1997. Today? I'd say that the memories and feelings from the Zoo-era are stronger. But not much.
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Old 05-30-2007, 10:22 AM   #42
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Peak this peak that

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Old 05-30-2007, 12:27 PM   #43
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Re: Re: Peaked with PopMart?

Quote:
Originally posted by U2Man


no. they were at an artistic and creative low, frustrated and desperate. ended up trying to play it safe by following the hip musical trends of the time.

the opening show in vegas was clear evidence. they really didn't have a clue what they were doing.

best u2 tour? zoo-tv, putas.
you've got to be kidding "playing it safe"???? if anything the last two albums are "playing it safe" and I've never bitched about ATYCLB and HTDAAB cause I do enjoyed them a lot, but Pop was the last time U2 pushed their creativity without any fears

and following hip musical trends??? pop doesn't sound like anything before that and after that, a few loop and a couple of dance beats doesn't make Pop a Dance or Electronica record if anything Pop has aged betther than most of U2's albums

and the opening show was due to very little rehearsing but i don't have to tell you that since we all know had that story goes

....however i do find it very debatable as to which tour was better, zootv was more groundbreaking that's for sure
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Old 05-30-2007, 01:55 PM   #44
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popmart was meant to kick your a** and I've never bitched about ATYCLB and HTDAAB cause I do enjoyed them a lot, but Pop was the last time U2 pushed their creativity without any fears
that's exactly what I was talking about.

Exactly what I was feeling and what lead me to post. I'm satisfied about the responses. I think there are those out there who view popmart as an aberration in the band's history and I think it's the opposite. So I think that's interesting.

This whole started with watching pop mart sao saulo over and over again in the last two months and really seeing the band for every reason that I love them for. I know that I'm going to make every effort to see them out of the country when they tour next because I think it's the u.s. response to popmart that has lead them to tone it down in the last 10 years. They pulled back and left the lemon and the bubble suit and all that stuff that I loved from that tour.

I think u2 is a stadium band and I think it's a shame that americans being too self concious to really let go and enjoy the spectacle. Mofo was supposed to disorient just like zoostation was to zootv and I think a lot of people never recovered from that pop music/mofo intro. They just said "what? u2 must've sold out cause I don't get this."

But it was just the boys being the boys again.

I want them to take that risk again. I want that experience again.

I don't know.

Rambling.
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Old 05-30-2007, 04:34 PM   #45
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Re: Re: Peaked with PopMart?

Quote:
Originally posted by U2Man


no. they were at an artistic and creative low, frustrated and desperate. ended up trying to play it safe by following the hip musical trends of the time.

the opening show in vegas was clear evidence. they really didn't have a clue what they were doing.

best u2 tour? zoo-tv, putas.
Surprisingly, I don't disagree too much with this.

U2 took ZOO TV and expanded it. Yes, the huge screen was great. But the arch? Giant olive? Mirrored lemon? Most were useless props that didn't really serve the tour. It's almost like U2 were saying, "See - look at that Golden Arch. That's a symbol for something. Get it? Get it? Yep, we're ironic!" Blah. Zoo TV came across as fresh and wildly different - especially for U2. PopMart came across as a bit of a repeat.

Yes, the Vertigo Tour can be seen as a repeat as well. Instead of a heart, there's the oval. But they curtain videos worked. And U2 didn't try to outdo the Elevation Tour by going bigger - they just updated it. And I think that's why it worked better.

Of course, if U2 try another version of the Elevation/Vertigo Tour, I do think they'll suffer for it. They have to try something a bit different.

Trouble is, it's a concert. How different can a show really be? But that's why U2 are U2 - they (and their crew) are rewarded for their tours.
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Old 05-30-2007, 05:04 PM   #46
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I didn't like Popmart unfortunately.

Zoo TVs imagery and grandious nature played well with the songs and it all melted into one huge "experience" rather than a concert. Popmart just seemed like an overdone attempt to be bigger and better and more ironic than before.

I know people would disagree but, IMO it's almost like they were trying to compensate for the rough new material and tired sounding performances of stuff like IWF with as much eye candy and gimmicks as possible. To me it came off as more style than substance, and that just didn't feel very... U2.
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Old 05-30-2007, 05:45 PM   #47
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Re: Re: Re: Peaked with PopMart?

Quote:
Originally posted by Mofo
you've got to be kidding "playing it safe"???? if anything the last two albums are "playing it safe" and I've never bitched about ATYCLB and HTDAAB cause I do enjoyed them a lot, but Pop was the last time U2 pushed their creativity without any fears

and following hip musical trends??? pop doesn't sound like anything before that and after that, a few loop and a couple of dance beats doesn't make Pop a Dance or Electronica record if anything Pop has aged betther than most of U2's albums
Don't bother with this forum. People here will continue to call Pop a techno album when Bono himself called Mofo a rock song... "that's Larry behind the drums, you know!". As much as I enjoyed the Vertigo tour especially cos it was the first time I saw them live, still I agree with what you said. Pop was indeed the last time U2 pushed their creativity without any fears.
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Old 05-30-2007, 05:56 PM   #48
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yes I know and I really don't have a problem with people not liking Pop or the Popmart Tour at the end of the day it's about personal taste but the last time they really pushed things creatively speaking was in Pop whether they succeeded or failed miserably it's up to each person

...but playing it safe, being desperate or at a creative low at that point in their career was not the case
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Old 05-30-2007, 06:04 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mofo
at the end of the day it's about personal taste


...but playing it safe, being desperate or at a creative low at that point in their career was not the case
Exactly!
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Old 05-30-2007, 07:51 PM   #50
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Peaked with PopMart?

Quote:
Originally posted by Zootlesque
Pop was indeed the last time U2 pushed their creativity without any fears.
If they had no fear, why did they release SATS and not Mofo as their 2nd single ?
They had their pants down during the Popmart era, trying to save the poor sales of Pop with classic u2 sound like IGWSHA and SATS, 2 miserable ballads. They should have released Mofo and Miami if they were so brave and so proud of their new kick ass songs.
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Old 05-30-2007, 07:54 PM   #51
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Peaked with PopMart?

Quote:
Originally posted by guill

If they had no fear, why did they release SATS and not Mofo as their 2nd single ?
They had their pants down during the Popmart era, trying to save the poor sales of Pop with classic u2 sound like IGWSHA and SATS, 2 miserable ballads. They should have released Mofo and Miami if they were so brave and so proud of their new kick ass songs.
That's not being scared, that's just intelligence. I'd do the same thing.
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Old 05-30-2007, 07:57 PM   #52
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Peaked with PopMart?

Quote:
Originally posted by guill

If they had no fear, why did they release SATS and not Mofo as their 2nd single ?
They had their pants down during the Popmart era, trying to save the poor sales of Pop with classic u2 sound like IGWSHA and SATS, 2 miserable ballads. They should have released Mofo and Miami if they were so brave and so proud of their new kick ass songs.
They did release Mofo as a single at least in SouthAmerica but maybe that doesn't count since it's not the USA....and they did had their pants down at the beginning of the tour, they were unrehearsed and attacked by the media in terms of the tour, the album for the most part had great reviews...you can't really compare the 1st leg with the rest
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Old 05-30-2007, 07:58 PM   #53
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Peaked with PopMart?

Quote:
Originally posted by guill
If they had no fear, why did they release SATS and not Mofo as their 2nd single ?
They had their pants down during the Popmart era, trying to save the poor sales of Pop with classic u2 sound like IGWSHA and SATS, 2 miserable ballads. They should have released Mofo and Miami if they were so brave and so proud of their new kick ass songs.
The poor sales of Pop probably killed whatever sense of risk-taking they had!
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Old 05-30-2007, 08:01 PM   #54
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My seats for popmart were the best I've had for a U2 concert, which was cool. I liked the tour alot more than I liked the album, but not near U2s peak IMO.
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Old 05-30-2007, 08:17 PM   #55
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As U2Man said, I don't doubt most fans would kill to have seen an Outside Broadcast show over a PopMart show.


ZooTV got the message across with art and with edge. PopMart tried to get a similar message across (granted, a more pointed one), but did it with art, edge, and cheese...succumbing at times to the latter. Taking half of Edge's karaoke performances and the lemon spaceship out of those shows would be like removing Jar-Jar Binks from Episode I. [/analogy]

In the end, I believe there is still fire in the band and that it's possible to see it on stage yet again. I'm sure that there were fans of the 1980-83 U2 who were used to the punkish nature of those shows and who felt that the UF and JT tours, although amazing shows, lacked the energy of the early tours simply because of the nature the music and the band took on in that period. Yet, in time, they broke out of drollness of "Love Rescue Me" and shot into ZooTV & PopMart. So, too, shall modern U2 emerge from "Stuck" and fire off into something great again.
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Old 05-30-2007, 10:53 PM   #56
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I think it's quite obvious from these posts and a lot of reviews at the time that it was a step too far for many. Not in a "you don't get it" way, because I certainly 'got' it, and loved it overall, but still had a line (loved the screen, loved the arch, loved the karaoke, but cringed at the lemon).

I certainly don't think it was a shallow concept based solely on outdoing ZooTV in size and nothing else. It was as clever and had as much depth as the overall ZooTV concept, easily, it's just that the very nature of it was to be shallow and cheesy, and it's that which fell flat for many. There was a line there for many with ZooTV as well. There were plenty who loved the whole thing, understood the whole concept.... right up until Bono appears in makeup and a gold suit, then for a variety of reasons (be they Christian and not understanding the whole mock-the-devil thing, or be they just fans of a more earnest U2 who don't like to see their man in lipstick, or be they fans who didn't understand how it fit with the rest of the message and thought it was just a bit lame) it was a turn off. Nothing wrong with that.

Popmarts concept and execution, I thought, was just as fantastic as ZooTV's, if just not as complicated on the surface. With ZooTV, it's not all at the front. There's a lot going on (and I don't just mean in the Zoo multimedia barrage sense) that is telling you - even if you have no idea what it is - that there's a deeper idea and message going on here. But because Popmarts was by it's very nature a surface level shallow and cheesy show, with flashy and oversize everything, it's easy for it to only register at that surface level and thus just look like a band being over the top for the sake of being over the top. I think pretty much everyone in here 'gets it' and I'm certainly not suggesting otherwise, but for many, that line of understanding and acceptance happened a lot earlier and a lot more often during Popmart than ZooTV. The whole thing was about shallow consumerism and commercialism, as told through the medium of pop art, and with U2 happy to sacrifice completely their own well crafted image and even music in the process of getting it across. More than happy to lump 'U2' into the cheese bin in the same way pop art for a couple of decades previously had broken down other commercial icons. Everything else made sense wrapped up in that concept. So they're showing highlights of pop art past, all of them following the same notion of breaking down consumerism and commercialism. They do this on this fucking massive screen, surrounded by oversize props, not unlike the sculptures you'll find in the middle of the room in any pop art exhibition anywhere in the world, right alongside the Warhols and Harings and Lichtensteins hanging on the wall (or screen, in this case). Meanwhile, right in front of you, U2 are breaking themselves down, overdoing and oversizing themselves in muscle shirts and orange jumpsuits, like a cartoon/anime version of themselves that just fell right off that screen onto the stage. They're even giving their own oh-so-earnest music a dressing down, throwing a bit of cheesy karaoke in there to completely undercut the old school seriousness of the songs before and after, deliberately taking something like Streets away from it's quasi religious place in many hearts and putting it straight into it's pop culture place in history right next to a f*cking Monkee's song or something, and then even giving some of the classics a half arsed cabaret feel (my bet is Bono's mumbling, lazy "lets just get through this" version of With or Without You on this tour were completely deliberate).

They couldn't stand there as the biggest band in the world, one of the most commercially successful rock outfits ever, this massive monolithic touring machine, with this incredibly cleverly crafted brand and image, and just trash commercialism and consumerism alone without acknowledging that they themselves are as much a part of it as a Cambells soup tin, or a Lara Croft video game, or a McDonalds arch. They had to take all of that side of themselves down as well, and I thought they did it brilliantly.

I'd be amazed if they were naive enough to think that this wouldn't have it's own massive backlash. That people wouldn't like seeing this band and that music turned on it's head in such a way, which to me is where the real balls of it exist. Like I said, there were only a couple of moments in ZooTV where I think people would have thought it was too much, and the band still did enough on the flipside to keep them relatively happy, ie that stretch of "too far" MacPhisto was balanced by the 'old school' segment of no makeup, no characters, just belting out Streets and Pride in all their serious glory. Or Edge sitting there by himself mumbling through Numb, matched by the 'new' up close B-Stage set without any trickery of smoke'n'mirrors. You dig? Popmart never gave you that. For every moment that may have made someone cringe, they just responded with... another moment that probably made you cringe.

I'm rambling now. Hopefully I make sense. I guess my point is, you don't have to like Popmart, but it certainly was no step backwards from ZooTV, in concept or execution. And I think, if anything, it helped them out with what has come today. I think that for them, publicly acknowledging that no matter how seriously they take themselves, no matter how seriously their fans treat them or their music, that they are also just another heavily branded and commercialised product for sale in a Kmart - I think that is what has given them the room now to indulge in that side of themselves without too serious a public backlash, no matter how much some of us may hate it in here. Acknowledging first of all that they are what they are, then showing us in a spectacular way that they don't really care that they are what they are, and then, finally, indulging in it and demanding that they want more of it. That they in fact don't want to be the best, but the biggest. It's kinda more of that mock the devil stuff really. They mocked everything about themselves by trashing it, and that gave them the room to then turn around and play up to it - iPod ad's, mass Grammy raids, tacky MTVised video clips, heavily commercialising the music. It was sort of a "Ok, let's be honest here...." moment, and once 'we' accepted the shock of that, they were able to move onwards as a mass commercial brand without, I guess, any guilt, or without being hypocrites in any way.

Say to U2 now "You know you guys have become nothing more than a brand, mass producing nothing more than an image" and Bono will probably say "Yeah dickhead, we know that, you didn't see Popmart did you?"

I still hated the whole descending from the lemon though. F*king ridiculous.
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Old 05-31-2007, 12:04 AM   #57
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Oh, and in regards to U2's peak, I don't think there really is one, but I think 87-93 was one hell of run. That's 6 years, give or take 6months either side. The time between the release of ATYCLB and now (approx), and in that time they spat out The Joshua Tree, Rattle & Hum, Achtung Baby and Zooropa - as diverse a collection of 4 albums as virtually anyone has produced - went on 3 major tours and gave themselves a top to bottom overhaul in between. Not the peak, but certainly the defining moment in time.
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Old 05-31-2007, 06:09 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by Earnie Shavers
because Popmart was by it's very nature a surface level shallow and cheesy show, with flashy and oversize everything, it's easy for it to only register at that surface level and thus just look like a band being over the top for the sake of being over the top. I think pretty much everyone in here 'gets it' and I'm certainly not suggesting otherwise, but for many, that line of understanding and acceptance happened a lot earlier and a lot more often during Popmart than ZooTV. The whole thing was about shallow consumerism and commercialism, as told through the medium of pop art, and with U2 happy to sacrifice completely their own well crafted image and even music in the process of getting it across. More than happy to lump 'U2' into the cheese bin in the same way pop art for a couple of decades previously had broken down other commercial icons. Everything else made sense wrapped up in that concept. So they're showing highlights of pop art past, all of them following the same notion of breaking down consumerism and commercialism. They do this on this fucking massive screen, surrounded by oversize props, not unlike the sculptures you'll find in the middle of the room in any pop art exhibition anywhere in the world, right alongside the Warhols and Harings and Lichtensteins hanging on the wall (or screen, in this case). Meanwhile, right in front of you, U2 are breaking themselves down, overdoing and oversizing themselves in muscle shirts and orange jumpsuits, like a cartoon/anime version of themselves that just fell right off that screen onto the stage. They're even giving their own oh-so-earnest music a dressing down, throwing a bit of cheesy karaoke in there to completely undercut the old school seriousness of the songs before and after, deliberately taking something like Streets away from it's quasi religious place in many hearts and putting it straight into it's pop culture place in history right next to a f*cking Monkee's song or something, and then even giving some of the classics a half arsed cabaret feel (my bet is Bono's mumbling, lazy "lets just get through this" version of With or Without You on this tour were completely deliberate).
Man, you're a brilliant writer! Are you a journalist by profession?
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Old 05-31-2007, 06:59 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by elevated_u2_fan
Zoo TV vs PopMart = Apples Vs Oranges
That seems like a perfectly legitimate way to compare them.
Apples and oranges are two different types of fruits, and ZooTV and PopMart are two different tours.
So let's make some comparisons.
Let's see, apples are red (or green) and are a bit harder than oranges. Oranges are citrus, while apples are not.
So I guess what I'm saying is, saying that "it's like comparing apples to oranges" means that it can and should be compared.
I also have way too much free time on my hands to craft such an inane response.
Oh, and I think ZooTV is better, because PopMart was kinda the same idea but with less substance.
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Old 05-31-2007, 08:44 PM   #60
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