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redhill

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It shocks me to some degree that Bono "gets away with" comparing the situation in Africa to the holocaust.

A LOT of people get EXTRAORDINARILY offended when one compares ANYTHING to the holocaust...

Some compare the meat industry as well to the holocaust... Something I personally would never do...

I know these comparisons are made because people otherwise might not look at it a seriously... but I can see how it would anger (to the point of boiling) someone who has personal feelings / family history related to the holocaust.

Bono gets away with a lot!
 
http://www.time.com/time/archive/preview/0,10987,1142270,00.html

Tom Lantos, a Democratic Representative from California, swings by with his granddaughter. Bono and Lantos are close enough that the Congressman, a Holocaust survivor, has encouraged Bono to reference worldwide indifference to the genocide when describing governments' apathetic response to the spread of AIDS across Africa. "I am very sensitive to people abusing the analogy," says Lantos. "He's convinced me it's legitimate."

also
http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=7010

he sought and received permission from Rep. Tom Lantos, (D-Calif.), a Holocaust survivor, to liken the plight of Africans dying of AIDS as the world turns a blind eye, to Jews being forced into death camp-bound trains, while the world did nothing.

and
http://www.results.org/website/article.asp?id=1351

Bono, a well known advocate on these issues, recalled his conversation with Congressman Tom Lantos (D-CA), who, as a child, survived being sent to a concentration camp in Hungary. “The thing that haunts him later on in his life,” said Bono, “was the looks on the faces of the people who stood by and watched them being loaded on the trains… and they didn’t ask where they were going.” Asked if there was an analogy between his experience and the deaths of millions from preventable disease, Lantos said, “Yes, there is. But here we know where the trains are going. We know that these people are going to die for lack of drugs we can get at any corner shop. We know the people are going to die because of a mosquito bite when they shouldn’t.”

Giving permission to use his story, Lantos asked Bono what he would do with it. He replied, “That whenever I spoke about this, I would say that this time we are going to lie in front of the trains.”
 
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kellyahern said:

Very thorough research. I'm unsure honestly what this proves other then one person in the world is OK with the analogy.

It is certain that this politician does not speak for everyone or anyone other then himself (really) on this matter.

I have to imagine some people are offended... but my point, actually, was that a lot more people would be offended (for some reason(s) if it were anyone other then Bono!
 
redhill said:


Very thorough research. I'm unsure honestly what this proves other then one person in the world is OK with the analogy.

It is certain that this politician does not speak for everyone or anyone other then himself (really) on this matter.

I have to imagine some people are offended... but my point, actually, was that a lot more people would be offended (for some reason(s) if it were anyone other then Bono!

I find it interesting that you would be offended, or suggest others would be offended, by Bono's use of holocaust but yet in another thread you say

redhill said:


That black police lady is checking out Bono's ass!

She loves it!

It's quite obvious the woman is black, and a police (security) officer. Why bring her skin color into? What does that have to do with anything? She's the only woman standing behind him in the photo.

I'm actually way more offended by something like that than I am about the use of the holocaust being compared to Africa.
 
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arw9797 said:


I find it interesting that you would be offended, or suggest others would be offended, by Bono's use of holocaust but yet in another thread you say



It's quite obvious the woman is black, and a police (security) officer. Why bring her skin color into? What does that have to do with anything? She's the only woman standing behind him in the photo.

I'm actually way more offended by something like that than I am about the use of the holocaust being compared to Africa.

Well it sounds like you may have some issues with racism then.

Bono himself has been quoted as saying he is very comfortable with the fact that he is not black (but that he is white, pink (or rosey?) and has soul.

Were you offended that he said that?

I just think it is cute when black women (like Queen Latifah seems to be ;) are attracted to a short irishman who wears wrap around sunglasses.

Why is that racist?

I have a (milato) friend who is an admitted racist and he is always saying the same thing.... "why did you even mention they were black"?!

The anwer is simple - because it was relevant (and in context with) the story. It does not get mentioned unless it has relevance. Lets be honest - history has shown the color of your skin is relevant to many people.

It is actually his issue and a reflection on his (and yours in this case?) racism. He is looking at the world through his "lens" and projecting his own issues onto others.

Someone's skin color is relevant because it is part of their identity.

I know of many white women who only date black men and in fact have said that they will not date white men. Is it wrong to say it? Or is it relevant? If a friend asks me if he should try to date her.... what should I say? Am I not allowed to mention that she has said she only likes black men? Is it racist or very relevant?

Not to belabor the point but my experience in this matter (which includes a lot of instances other then what I mentioned with my friend) is that people who point the finger at simple statments (where the race is relevant) are usually hyper-sensitive to their own ethnicity or racist themselves. The things people dislike the very most in others are, quite often, the things that they dislike about themselves the most.

I am one of the least racist people you could ever hope to meet.

I just thought something was cute.
 
Just in case someone says that it is not relevant

that the police lady is black.

Go to any U2 concert in the USA. What percentage of the attendees are black?

I have never seen it be more then 2% (probably closer to .05%..)

So it is cool to see a black lady checking B-Man out.

Bono, being someone that seems to want to win EVERYONE over, IMO, would love to have more black fans..

His actions in many instances have always led me to believe this.

So it is also of interest (on that level) for her to be checking him out.

I don't see how it is racist (in the very slightest) to discuss these things.
 
Redhill, I heard Bono speak on Thursday night. BEFORE he said anything about the Holocaust, he talked for about five minutes about a politician he'd met, a Holocaust survivor and HE (the politician) was the one who told BONO that HE believes what is happening today in Africa is worse than the Holocaust. Bono specifically said "this is NOT an analogy we can use lightly, nothing about the Holocaust ever is..." The politician who made the original analogy wrote Bono a letter explaining it to him and asking him to use it.

Why is this analogy offensive to you? I mean, you say that what the politician thinks about it being OK to use the analogy doesn't count b/c he's only one person (nevermind that he's a Holocaust survivor who made tha analogy), but then YOU are the one claiming that "LOTS" of people get offended by this. As far as I know, you're the first person I've heard from who's offended by this analogy so why is your opinion more significant than the opinion of the politician?

Yes, comparing eating chickens to the Holocaust is sick and disturbing and anyone who thinks that's OK or makes sense needs to have their head examined. No one here's going to argue with you about that one. But PETA or whoever the fuck was behind that has NOTHING to do with Africa's economic development.

The analogy is somewhat meaningful to me because my late grandfather served for years during WWII and was part of the corps that "liberated" the Nordhausen concentration camp. I say "liberated" in quotes because upon their arrival, they found over 2000 unburried corpses and just a few survivors, many of whom were beyond saving. My grandpa's fellow officers were so terribly shocked by this, that this had happened just outside of a village, under everyone's noses, that they went into the village, took everyone captive, and forced them into the camp to help properly burry the dead.

When I think about these stories and look at the photos my grandpa took of those rows and rows and rows of dead, and then look at my own photos of poor and starving people in Africa and think of how disgustingly easy it is to disassociate, the analogy makes too much sense.
 
Honestly I think starting a thread about the Holocaust and then talking about some random policewoman checking out Bono's ass is FAR more offensive and nonsensical than Bono/Lantos' analogy.
 
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:

When I think about these stories and look at the photos my grandpa took of those rows and rows and rows of dead, and then look at my own photos of poor and starving people in Africa and think of how disgustingly easy it is to disassociate, the analogy makes too much sense.

:applaud:
agree 100%
 
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:
Honestly I think starting a thread about the Holocaust and then talking about some random policewoman checking out Bono's ass is FAR more offensive and nonsensical than Bono/Lantos' analogy.




:up: also lets not let the train go by as in the Holocaust. We all know where that led to. Hes saying lets not let that happen in Africa if we sit by and just watch.

redhill, go buy a well for his birthday, go make a difference instead of an unheaded argument.
 
redhill said:


Well it sounds like you may have some issues with racism then.

Bono himself has been quoted as saying he is very comfortable with the fact that he is not black (but that he is white, pink (or rosey?) and has soul.

Were you offended that he said that?

I just think it is cute when black women (like Queen Latifah seems to be ;) are attracted to a short irishman who wears wrap around sunglasses.

Why is that racist?

I have a (milato) friend who is an admitted racist and he is always saying the same thing.... "why did you even mention they were black"?!

The anwer is simple - because it was relevant (and in context with) the story. It does not get mentioned unless it has relevance. Lets be honest - history has shown the color of your skin is relevant to many people.

It is actually his issue and a reflection on his (and yours in this case?) racism. He is looking at the world through his "lens" and projecting his own issues onto others.

Someone's skin color is relevant because it is part of their identity.

I know of many white women who only date black men and in fact have said that they will not date white men. Is it wrong to say it? Or is it relevant? If a friend asks me if he should try to date her.... what should I say? Am I not allowed to mention that she has said she only likes black men? Is it racist or very relevant?

Not to belabor the point but my experience in this matter (which includes a lot of instances other then what I mentioned with my friend) is that people who point the finger at simple statments (where the race is relevant) are usually hyper-sensitive to their own ethnicity or racist themselves. The things people dislike the very most in others are, quite often, the things that they dislike about themselves the most.

I am one of the least racist people you could ever hope to meet.

I just thought something was cute.

So, it is someone else's problem alone if they perceive racism in your comments or beliefs? What do we do in the case of irrefutable proof of such? (See above)

:scratch:

Oh, by the way, ARW is, in fact, white, if I'm not mistaken... so your "lens" theory needs some work... not to mention a few of your other theories.

P.S. "Milato "? :(
 
JCOSTER said:





:up: also lets not let the train go by as in the Holocaust. We all know where that led to. Hes saying lets not let that happen in Africa if we sit by and just watch.

redhill, go buy a well for his birthday, go make a difference instead of an unheaded argument.

I have been contributing to the well every year without fail since the inception of the idea. Why would you assume that I don't? Unheaded?:eyebrow:
 
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:
Redhill, I heard Bono speak on Thursday night. BEFORE he said anything about the Holocaust, he talked for about five minutes about a politician he'd met, a Holocaust survivor and HE (the politician) was the one who told BONO that HE believes what is happening today in Africa is worse than the Holocaust. Bono specifically said "this is NOT an analogy we can use lightly, nothing about the Holocaust ever is..." The politician who made the original analogy wrote Bono a letter explaining it to him and asking him to use it.

Why is this analogy offensive to you?

I never said it was. I said that I can see how a lot of people would take offensive and thought that Bono was able to avoid offending people somehow because he was Bono... and that few people could pull that off. Did you read my posts?
 
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:
Honestly I think starting a thread about the Holocaust and then talking about some random policewoman checking out Bono's ass is FAR more offensive and nonsensical than Bono/Lantos' analogy.

These were two different posts in two different forums that someone else associated with each other.

I don't think it would be possible for anyone to make a valid argument that anything I wrote (in either post) was offensive or nonsensical...

Well I can see how certain folks could be offended that I mentioned that someone was checking out Bono's ass.... but not that I noted that she was black.
 
redhill said:


I never said it was. I said that I can see how a lot of people would take offensive and thought that Bono was able to avoid offending people somehow because he was Bono... and that few people could pull that off. Did you read my posts?

He avoids offending people because 1) he's right and 2) come to think of it, people SHOULD be offended by what has been allowed to happen.

But anyway, since you say you're not offended by it, and I've yet to hear from someone who was there that was offended, I guess it's a non-issue.
 
Is it just me or do more people care about the holocaust than the situation in africa at the moment? Both things should never have happened, but the thing is the poverty in africa is still happening and why havent we dont anything to prevent it yet? There is no way we would let something like the holocaust happen in this day and age - so bono has made a good point by comparing it with africa. Why ignore the fact that we treat these africans worse than anyone else?
 
redhill said:


I have been contributing to the well every year without fail since the inception of the idea. Why would you assume that I don't? Unheaded?:eyebrow:



I don't see why anyone would be offended by him mentioning the Holocaust as in comparison to the famine in Africa......the bottom line is both are catastrophes that could be and could have prevented.

Holocaust is a word to describe the destruction of human life and used correctly by him in his speeches concerning Africa.
 
JCOSTER said:




I don't see why anyone would be offended by him mentioning the Holocaust as in comparison to the famine in Africa......the bottom line is both are catastrophes that could be and could have prevented.

Holocaust is a word to describe the destruction of human life and used correctly by him in his speeches concerning Africa.

Exactly. Also, taking the analogy alone is taking his idea a bit out of context. At this point in his speech, he also made several other analogies. For example, he mentioned the tsunami catasrophe and compared it to the number of people that die in Africa EVERY MONTH. He did not mention this one in GR, but he's also before compared September 11 to the people that die in Africa EVERY DAY. I think his point is not an actual comparison over which events are worse or more catastrophic; rather, it seems people in the West love to talk about these events like the Holocaust, the tsunami, and Sept. 11 in terms of our value of human life, yet no one ever talks about Africa where the same loss occurs every year, every month, or every day.
 
partygirlvox said:
Is it just me or do more people care about the holocaust than the situation in africa at the moment? Both things should never have happened, but the thing is the poverty in africa is still happening and why havent we dont anything to prevent it yet? There is no way we would let something like the holocaust happen in this day and age - so bono has made a good point by comparing it with africa. Why ignore the fact that we treat these africans worse than anyone else?

:up:

and Redhill, on your other point you are talking about relevance of noting black or white.... is it relevant to call a policewoman black or white? I do not think so, and I think most people agree with that! you coul've just posted about the lady or the policewoman... but why add the black??? that sounds like it's important to YOU! sorry to ask, but why do you call people here a racist... if that's normal to ask, then I'd rather ask you for bringing it up!
 
Galeongirl said:


:up:

and Redhill, on your other point you are talking about relevance of noting black or white.... is it relevant to call a policewoman black or white? I do not think so, and I think most people agree with that! you coul've just posted about the lady or the policewoman... but why add the black??? that sounds like it's important to YOU! sorry to ask, but why do you call people here a racist... if that's normal to ask, then I'd rather ask you for bringing it up!

Yeah, no kidding. Also, of course if you look out over a U2 concert, you will see only 2% "black" people, or whatever percent you gave. That's because by reducing people to either "black" or "white", you're lumping anyone that doesn't have black skin (English, Irish, Dutch, Spanish, Mexican, Greek, Italian, Russian, Chinese, Japanese, Scandanavian, etc, etc, etc) into ONE category. So yeah, if "black" is only made up of African-Americans and Jamaicans, but "white" is made up of 100 other ethnicities, yeah it's going to look pretty rediculous.

And anyway, the policewoman isn't looking at Bono's ass, she's looking over his shoulder at the stuff he's signing. You can't see someone's ass at that angle when they're inches in front of you.
 
U2 Feedback » Your Blue Room » PLEBA » Band Meetings and Sightings

Hmmm...I guess I came to the wrong forum...oops I'm in the right forum, but this thread is not.:wink: :wink:

But while I'm here...Just so I don't offend anyone..."The Holocaust" is an important part of history and should never have happened and we should never forget (and "a holocaust" IS happening in Africa as we sit at our computers). Kudos to Bono for finding analogies that can actually make people wake up and do something.
 
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:


Exactly. Also, taking the analogy alone is taking his idea a bit out of context. At this point in his speech, he also made several other analogies. For example, he mentioned the tsunami catasrophe and compared it to the number of people that die in Africa EVERY MONTH. He did not mention this one in GR, but he's also before compared September 11 to the people that die in Africa EVERY DAY. I think his point is not an actual comparison over which events are worse or more catastrophic; rather, it seems people in the West love to talk about these events like the Holocaust, the tsunami, and Sept. 11 in terms of our value of human life, yet no one ever talks about Africa where the same loss occurs every year, every month, or every day.

i agree

when something happens closer to home....it seems more important......or a one off/irregular event in such cases as the tsunami or 9/11........the locations and situations in which these "catastrophies" have taken place have had more of a personal impact on "us"......or due to its irregularity, so to speak....the media have a frenzie, and its all we see and hear about until the media find something else to report on

africa's catastrophy is happening all day, every day and because the media gets tired of reporting the same thing every day...its easy to forget about what is happening in africa

am i making sense?

so for Bono to compare what is happening Africa to the holocaust.....he is not far off the mark....just because we live in modern times doesnt mean it is impossible for something like the holocaust to happen again....it doesnt mean it has to be in the same way as it did back then

people in africa ARE being put on the trains....and we CAN do something about it....people in their thousands are dying for something that is preventable and we are just sitting back and watching...or being completely oblivious.......

i think whats happening is a tragedy and like LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said....Bono is not trying to say this is any worse than the other events that have happened.....but he is just trying to bring attention how serious the problem in Africa is in order to help those people who are dying in a way that is uneccessary

we shouldnt not talk about the holocaust because i believe that we can learn from what happened there......people said that something like this should never happen again....but in a way...it is......people are losing their lives

like bono says "where you live should not determine whether you live or die"....and with the holocaust it was religion that determined whether you lived or died.....same thing i think


(sorry for it being rambly......im tired!....and yes....why is this in band meetings/sightings? :eyebrow: )
 
Yeah i thought this was going to be something about Bono speaking to some fan about his speech in Michigan or something :huh:
 
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