Ok, so here's what I think U2's problem is.

[thrillme]

Rjhbonovox is right, roy and Brau are wrong. People tend to overrate the most recent release. It's a natural thing, I suppose, because it sounds the freshest, because they haven't yet listened to it a bagillion times like they have the rest of the albums. It's not a putdown on anyone, it's just the way it is. The most recent release tends to be overrated. Also, if you remember that poll, after every round went by later in the contest where HTDAAB survived, there was a great big chorus of people vocalizing their disbelief that people were putting this thing through over the likes of War, The Unforgettable Fire, Zooropa, Pop, etc.

If Atomic Bomb is not better than War, the Unforgettable Fire, etc., written when only 2 of them had any formal music training, then Larry and Adam taking lessons in their respective instruments was for nothing in regards to their work. Bono has taken singing lessons since their early albums. Maybe for their own sense of improvement, but if their playing is not better, tighter, than previous albums, why bother.

Telling me the bass on their prior albums, with the exception of Pop is better than "Atomic Bomb?" I think "Pop" was the first proper U2 album (not counting passengers), recorded after Adam took bass lessons for a year. It shows, it really does. How about the "Mission Impossible" remake, did this not show an improvement on Adam and Larry's part? I think Adam held back a bit for ATYCLB, but not so much on Atomic Bomb.

Hum the song Vertigo.

Anyone humming the bass line? That does happen very often with U2, much less other bass players, unless the bass player is also the singer/frontman-woman. Anyone humming the bass lines to new Coldplay songs? Green Day?

War is my favorite U2 album, but ye know, it could just be romanticism, was my first U2 album I bought on my own. First U2 song I liked off the bat, was "New Year's Day" when I heard it on their Best of, my uncle bought me, and I later bought "War."

But Atomic Bomb is better musically than "War." Nothing wrong with that, that's how it should be I think.

 

[namkcuR]

If Atomic Bomb is not better than War, the Unforgettable Fire, etc., written when only 2 of them had any formal music training, then Larry and Adam taking lessons in their respective instruments was for nothing in regards to their work. Bono has taken singing lessons since their early albums. Maybe for their own sense of improvement, but if their playing is not better, tighter, than previous albums, why bother.

Telling me the bass on their prior albums, with the exception of Pop is better than "Atomic Bomb?" I think "Pop" was the first proper U2 album (not counting passengers), recorded after Adam took bass lessons for a year. It shows, it really does. How about the "Mission Impossible" remake, did this not show an improvement on Adam and Larry's part? I think Adam held back a bit for ATYCLB, but not so much on Atomic Bomb.

Hum the song Vertigo.

Anyone humming the bass line? That does happen very often with U2, much less other bass players, unless the bass player is also the singer/frontman-woman. Anyone humming the bass lines to new Coldplay songs? Green Day?

War is my favorite U2 album, but ye know, it could just be romanticism, was my first U2 album I bought on my own. First U2 song I liked off the bat, was "New Year's Day" when I heard it on their Best of, my uncle bought me, and I later bought "War."

But Atomic Bomb is better musically than "War." Nothing wrong with that, that's how it should be I think.

But it's NOT.

Listen to 'Drowning Man'. Through headphones. Now, don't you dare try to tell me that there is anything on HTDAAB that even approaches that kind of beauty. There is a short acoustic guitar solo about 2/3 of the way through the song, it lasts for about ten seconds, and it is gorgeous. That ten seconds excites me more than anything on HTDAAB. It's great that Adam and Larry and the others got formal training. But I'd rather hear a band without formal training playing the kind of music that is on War than a band with formal training playing the kind of stuff that is on HTDAAB.

 

[roy]

Now, don't you dare try to tell me that there is anything on HTDAAB that even approaches that kind of beauty.

Dear, oh dear....more dillusions of grandeur. Patronising doesn't even begin to describe these people.

 

[KUEFC09U2]

But it's NOT.

Listen to 'Drowning Man'. Through headphones. Now, don't you dare try to tell me that there is anything on HTDAAB that even approaches that kind of beauty. There is a short acoustic guitar solo about 2/3 of the way through the song, it lasts for about ten seconds, and it is gorgeous. That ten seconds excites me more than anything on HTDAAB. It's great that Adam and Larry and the others got formal training. But I'd rather hear a band without formal training playing the kind of music that is on War than a band with formal training playing the kind of stuff that is on HTDAAB.

ITS all in your fucking opiion, not EVERYONE thinks like you belive it or not people do like things BETTER than that, so deal with it for gods sake

 

[angelordevil]

Think about why U2 makes music

Think about it

Think some more about it

Think about whether it's for love or money

Think about human rights

Think about Africa

Think about the masses, the mainstream

Think about what they think about

Think about why U2 makes music

 

[namkcuR]

Ok, maybe the phrase 'don't you dare' was a bit much, in hindsight. I apologize, poor choice of words.

But other than that, I'm not the only writing my opinion as if it were fact. Look at the post I was quoting:

But Atomic Bomb is better musically than "War." Nothing wrong with that, that's how it should be I think.

This person is pretty much stating as fact that HTDAAB is better than War. I don't see anyone getting all up in arms about that. Probably because you agree that HTDAAB is better than War.

Don't single me out like I'm the only one who does it.

 

[thrillme]

But it's NOT.

Listen to 'Drowning Man'. Through headphones. Now, don't you dare try to tell me that there is anything on HTDAAB that even approaches that kind of beauty. There is a short acoustic guitar solo about 2/3 of the way through the song, it lasts for about ten seconds, and it is gorgeous. That ten seconds excites me more than anything on HTDAAB. It's great that Adam and Larry and the others got formal training. But I'd rather hear a band without formal training playing the kind of music that is on War than a band with formal training playing the kind of stuff that is on HTDAAB.

Okay, but you're citing a guitar solo, maybe Edge isn't doing anything to blow your mind on Atomic Bomb, but the bass in "A man and a woman", that's a thing of beauty to hear. I love the lyrics too. "City" is brilliant, I love hearing it loud on my headphones.

"New Year's Day" remains Adam's signature line, and I don't get sick of hearing it, but he has done some great work since then, and even nowadays.

I'm not a trained musician, I can kinda read music, I can play a penny whistle, as I learned to play a recorder, and the switch wasn't too hard, so maybe I'm not as 'in tune' to these things. I couldn't tell you whether Larry is a good drummer or not, I don't know how to judge it, as I'm amazed by all drummers who have that kind of hand-eye coordination, but I love the drum intro to "Original of the Species."

I like Larry's use of brushes on "hands that built America" and after hearing that, I think he uses them on "City" in the beginning.

Besides, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Rattle and Hum is the only U2 album I haven't quite...it's hit and miss for me.

 

[namkcuR]

Okay, but you're citing a guitar solo, maybe Edge isn't doing anything to blow your mind on Atomic Bomb, but the bass in "A man and a woman", that's a thing of beauty to hear. I love the lyrics too. "City" is brilliant, I love hearing it loud on my headphones.

"New Year's Day" remains Adam's signature line, and I don't get sick of hearing it, but he has done some great work since then, and even nowadays.

I'm not a trained musician, I can kinda read music, I can play a penny whistle, as I learned to play a recorder, and the switch wasn't too hard, so maybe I'm not as 'in tune' to these things. I couldn't tell you whether Larry is a good drummer or not, I don't know how to judge it, as I'm amazed by all drummers who have that kind of hand-eye coordination, but I love the drum intro to "Original of the Species."

I like Larry's use of brushes on "hands that built America" and after hearing that, I think he uses them on "City" in the beginning.

Besides, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Rattle and Hum is the only U2 album I haven't quite...it's hit and miss for he.

Speaking of 'Hands That Built America', that is a great song.

 

[thrillme]

Ok, maybe the phrase 'don't you dare' was a bit much, in hindsight. I apologize, poor choice of words.

But other than that, I'm not the only writing my opinion as if it were fact. Look at the post I was quoting:



This person is pretty much stating as fact that HTDAAB is better than War. I don't see anyone getting all up in arms about that. Probably because you agree that HTDAAB is better than War.

Don't single me out like I'm the only one who does it.

I only said better musically, and I backed that up by citing Adam and Larry's bass and drum lessons.

War is my favorite U2 album, "Atomic Bomb" is tied for 5th place with "Boy."

But that's just my liking. But as musicians, I even used the word "think"=opinion, that their recent work, should be better than albums written when they were "learning on the job."

Is that not a fair claim? Is Adam a better bass player now, than before. Is Larry a better drummer, etc.?

And for the record, isn't most of what is posted on message boards, opinion.

Adam's afro was cool.

(that's not a fact, it's opinion, but common sense, I don't have to say it's an opinion for people to know it is, right?)

 

[namkcuR]

I only said better musically, and I backed that up by citing Adam and Larry's bass and drum lessons.

War is my favorite U2 album, "Atomic Bomb" is tied for 5th place with "Boy."

But that's just my liking. But as musicians, I even used the word "think"=opinion, that their recent work, should be better than albums written when they were "learning on the job."

Is that not a fair claim? Is Adam a better bass player now, than before. Is Larry a better drummer, etc.?

And for the record, isn't most of what is posted on message boards, opinion.

Adam's afro was cool.

(that's not a fact, it's opinion, but common sense, I don't have to say it's an opinion for people to know it is, right?)

Ok, fair enough. I still disagree, but fair enough. I won't argue this particular point anymore.

 

[rjhbonovox]

Please give me some actual evidence which states U2 fans have a consistent tendency of doing this or just like RJ I'm going to accuse you of bullshit, trying to push your own agenda. For the record I'm a fan since 1984 and don't recall such a pattern of shifting opinion.

Once again, back your claims, if you can.

Right here's something that backs my claim up or maybe not proof but reasoning behind my statement. Whenever there is a vote of the 100 greatest albums of all time on TV or in magazines, you always get an album that has been released during the past 12 months cropping up in the top 10/20 and then when they do the same poll 3 or 4 years later the album has disappeared up its own arse or something. People vote for a current release album cos its the newest one and the one their listening to the most at that moment of a poll. This is the same for a greatest song poll, you always get one or two current songs of the past 6 to 12 months then the same poll 3 years later and them current songs have gone.

 

[angelordevil]

INTERESTING FACT OF THE DAY!

brought to you by...

ANGELORDEVIL!

...thank you deep voice man

Here you go kiddies:

"...How to Dismantle an Atomic Bomb has sold 2.8 million copies so far after entering the chart last fall at No. 1 with 840,000 copies, nearly double the No. 3 debut of 2000's All That You Can't Leave Behind..."

(source: usatoday.com, June 30th)

 

[rjhbonovox]

INTERESTING FACT OF THE DAY!

brought to you by...

ANGELORDEVIL

...thank you deep voice man

Here you go kiddies:

How to Dismantle an Atomic Bomb has sold 2.8 million copies so far after entering the chart last fall at No. 1 with 840,000 copies, nearly double the No. 3 debut of 2000's All That You Can't Leave Behind.

(source: usatoday.com, June 30th)

Who cares how many it sells.....all we wanna know is it any fucking good?......................

 

[U2DMfan]

I only said better musically, and I backed that up by citing Adam and Larry's bass and drum lessons.

Cite some songs.

I don't think there is a tremndous amount of difference in the musicianship of either album. War and HTDAAB.
U2 aren't a musician band, they are a songs band.

I would easily accept Adam and Larry are better players than they were 22 years ago, but I'm not sure there is evidence in that particular album that makes it plain as day.

 

[angelordevil]

Who cares how many it sells.....all we wanna know is it any fucking good?......................

YES....IT RAWKKKKS!


gee, thanks again deep voice man...you're swell

YOU ARE MOST CERTAINLY WELCOME ANGELORDEVIL!

 

[U2DMfan]

as for what roy and rj are arguing about.

if you have the search function, go back to the Summer of 2001 and see if you can find an album ranking thread.

Check ATYCLB then, and check it now on the most recent one.
The latest release is always the (3rd best behind JT and AB)
on this forum.

I will take time to see how the collective reaction really settles.
I would say with confidence that 7 months in, it is going to be definitely overrated for being the newest freshest thing.

Remember all the people saying ATYCLB was U2's 3rd masterpiece? The numbers of the people saying this now, as opposed to 4 years ago has ridiculously diminished.

And no, I don't have evidence of it besdies memory, but if the archives go back that far, you might be able to find it.

 

[angelordevil]

Aren't all the albums good? This is fucking U2 we're talking about....this thread sucks...and I'm right in the middle of it

 

[thrillme]

Ok, fair enough. I still disagree, but fair enough. I won't argue this particular point anymore.

And rightly so, who could argue that Adam's afro was cool? Okay maybe Bono but he had a mullet.

I would easily accept Adam and Larry are better players than they were 22 years ago, but I'm not sure there is evidence in that particular album that makes it plain as day

Well that was my point. Better players, should, in theory, make better albums, as far as the music goes.

Well, I'm not gonna win either, so I will leave you all to argue, I'm going to go make use of my U2.com membership.

Play nice.

 

[angelordevil]

as for what roy and rj are arguing about.

if you have the search function, go back to the Summer of 2001 and see if you can find an album ranking thread. .

Wanna go sort our cupboards alphabetically, wanna?, wanna? It's Friday, afterall!

fun, fun, fun!!!

 

[angelordevil]

And rightly so, who could argue that Adam's afro was cool? Okay maybe Bono but he had a mullet.

Never diss a good mullet my friend...

 

[rjhbonovox]

as for what roy and rj are arguing about.

if you have the search function, go back to the Summer of 2001 and see if you can find an album ranking thread.

Check ATYCLB then, and check it now on the most recent one.
The latest release is always the (3rd best behind JT and AB)
on this forum.

I will take time to see how the collective reaction really settles.
I would say with confidence that 7 months in, it is going to be definitely overrated for being the newest freshest thing.

Remember all the people saying ATYCLB was U2's 3rd masterpiece? The numbers of the people saying this now, as opposed to 4 years ago has ridiculously diminished.

And no, I don't have evidence of it besdies memory, but if the archives go back that far, you might be able to find it.

Ahhh that kinda backs up my theory, don't ya think?

 

[U2DMfan]

I don't know, all I am trying to say is that the lovefest will likely wear down over time.

It's possible HTDAAB will age better than ATYCLB did on this board, but right now it's trending towards more of the same.

POP seemed to have the same effect although on the old Wire listing I can say it was loved for a long time and hated for a long time, so that album's reception is just odd in general.

 

[rjhbonovox]

I don't know, all I am trying to say is that the lovefest will likely wear down over time.

It's possible HTDAAB will age better than ATYCLB did on this board, but right now it's trending towards more of the same.

POP seemed to have the same effect although on the old Wire listing I can say it was loved for a long time and hated for a long time, so that album's reception is just odd in general.

Yeah odd is a great description of Pop, odd but absolutely brilliant!

 

[IrishDawg]

If U2 went and made another experimental failure all of you in here would bitch and say "HTDAAB and ATYCLB were great, why can't they return to traditional rock?" Isn't that why they went back to traditional chart-topping rock? Because their own fans didn't like Pop?

If you guys like Zooropa and Pop so much more than ATYCLB and HTDAAB, that's great. But you really don't need to come here and say to all the fans of the current era that ATYCLB and HTDAAB "Don't have any atmosphere," or "are emotionless." And LPOE and AMAAW don't sound quite like traditional U2 to me. Whenever I listen to them I think of U2 exploring to find new sounds.

Numb and Discotheque can kiss Vertigo's ass any day! They can kiss Beautiful Day's while they're at it!

btw, why are you comparing U2 to the beatles? It seems as if you want U2 to be different, and not be "the biggest band in the world"

 

[The OOTS]

i love how people knock bands for making appealing albums. i used to be the same way, and then joined a band myself, and wanted to make money.

Experimental albums don't fill the wallets like commercially, pop song, filled albums.

Go ask PoP and Zooropa.

 

[rjhbonovox]

If U2 went and made another experimental failure all of you in here would bitch and say "HTDAAB and ATYCLB were great, why can't they return to traditional rock?" Isn't that why they went back to traditional chart-topping rock? Because their own fans didn't like Pop?

If you guys like Zooropa and Pop so much more than ATYCLB and HTDAAB, that's great. But you really don't need to come here and say to all the fans of the current era that ATYCLB and HTDAAB "Don't have any atmosphere," or "are emotionless." And LPOE and AMAAW don't sound quite like traditional U2 to me. Whenever I listen to them I think of U2 exploring to find new sounds.

If U2 went more experimental again or had kept going down that road I would have respected them more than I do now. They have lost a lot of my respect for the last 2 albums not that their bothered about losing a long term fan such as I. I remember when I first heard a clip of Beautiful Day and it was the first time when I had heard a new U2 song in 18 years that I thought "mmmmm I have heard that before somewhere" and I had that feeling of let down, massive let down. I remember telling myself then that song is great etc but when I look back now I was kidding myself. I also remember watching the video for the first time of Beautiful Day and also getting the feeling of watching a band that had run its course, they just looked tired and old, run out of ideas. I got the same feeling after seeing the Vertigo video which was made in the studio. I know I will get a lot of flak for saying this but these are the feelings I had after hearing the music they have made since 2000.

 

[AtomicBono]

INTERESTING FACT OF THE DAY!

brought to you by...

ANGELORDEVIL!

...thank you deep voice man

Here you go kiddies:

"...How to Dismantle an Atomic Bomb has sold 2.8 million copies so far after entering the chart last fall at No. 1 with 840,000 copies, nearly double the No. 3 debut of 2000's All That You Can't Leave Behind..."

(source: usatoday.com, June 30th)

am I the only one amused by the deep voice man??

I love every U2 album. But Pop is my favourite, AB my second. JT third and I considered HTDAAB my 4th but I've been listening to Zooropa like crazy now (I even made my entire livejournal layout to be like Zooropa http://www.livejournal.com/users/sonicsoundscape if you wanna see, I think it's pretty cool ). I think maybe Zooropa is a better album... 90's U2 was amazing. But y'know, U2 has taken a new direction now, like it or not, and I think it was necessary. Chizip hit the nail on the head at the beginning of the thread - after the "failure" of Pop U2 is obsessed with being the "biggest band in the world" again. Though as far as I'm concerned, they've ALWAYS been the biggest band in the world... but now they've proven themselves twice. ATYCLB was originally hailed as their third masterpiece and HTDAAB has done even better in sales. I think now U2 has more room to be experimental... and I think they will. I have confidence in this band, see. They've never disappointed me. And I think now that they've proven themselves to the masses again, they can release something more daring. Something with songs like Mercy.

But we'll see. I'm sure I'll like whatever U2 puts out, even if it's in the "back to roots" vein of ATYCLB and HTDAAB. Both albums are solid and contain songs that are unlike anything U2 had done before. I do hope that U2 branches out even more next album... could they pull off another Zooropa? Arguably their most diverse and un-U2 album ever. I would love to hear something equally mindblowingly weird and awesome.

 

[KUEFC09U2]

If U2 went more experimental again or had kept going down that road I would have respected them more than I do now. They have lost a lot of my respect for the last 2 albums not that their bothered about losing a long term fan such as I. I remember when I first heard a clip of Beautiful Day and it was the first time when I had heard a new U2 song in 18 years that I thought "mmmmm I have heard that before somewhere" and I had that feeling of let down, massive let down. I remember telling myself then that song is great etc but when I look back now I was kidding myself. I also remember watching the video for the first time of Beautiful Day and also getting the feeling of watching a band that had run its course, they just looked tired and old, run out of ideas. I got the same feeling after seeing the Vertigo video which was made in the studio. I know I will get a lot of flak for saying this but these are the feelings I had after hearing the music they have made since 2000.

why carry on coming here making the same points over and over then if you have lost your love for the band? i dont get it, if you dont like it go and find some other music you do like, its simple really

 

[roy]

as for what roy and rj are arguing about.

The latest release is always the (3rd best behind JT and AB)
on this forum.

Remember all the people saying ATYCLB was U2's 3rd masterpiece?

I managed to find this poll from last year:

1. Achtung Baby - 298
2. Joshua Tree - 276
3. Unforgettable Fire - 224
4. War - 187
5. All That You Can't Leave Behind - 175
6. Zooropa - 171
7. Pop - 150
8. Boy - 120
9. Rattle and Hum - 117
10. October - 79
11. Passengers - Original Soundtracks I - 25

The latest release doen't seem to be in 3rd place, does it?

As regards all the people proclaiming ATYCLB to be the 3rd masterpiece, well I certainly remember Rolling Stone making such a foolish statement, but very few others.

 

[rjhbonovox]

I managed to find this poll from last year:

1. Achtung Baby - 298
2. Joshua Tree - 276
3. Unforgettable Fire - 224
4. War - 187
5. All That You Can't Leave Behind - 175
6. Zooropa - 171
7. Pop - 150
8. Boy - 120
9. Rattle and Hum - 117
10. October - 79
11. Passengers - Original Soundtracks I - 25

The latest release doen't seem to be in 3rd place, does it?

As regards all the people proclaiming ATYCLB to be the 3rd masterpiece, well I certainly remember Rolling Stone making such a foolish statement, but very few others.

You need to check the polls from 2001 as this was taken 3 years after ATYCLB was released, and the love for it was dwindling.