MERGED ----> ZOO TV DVD Hits Amazon + ZOO TV DVD info

[WalkOn21]

To those that think they'd prefer a matted 16:9 image, understand that when the video was originally shot, the compositions were photographed with 4:3 viewing in mind.

I know everything about the OAR concept. However, I have more respect for this principle with movies. Movies have months of editing, in which the director can make sure the framing is exactly as he intended. On live events like this, however, editing is done on-the-fly. The shots aren't as meticulously composed as in a movie. It hurts a lot less to tilt&scan those.

Also, as I mentioned previously, a non HD matted 16:9 video will have to be upscaled and it will be noticably grainier on *any* tv then any true HD video such as the recent Chicago dvd.

Ouch, big mistake. If it was indeed shot on video, there will of course be no film grain on it...

Are you people honestly trying to tell me that you would rather have half of the original image completely removed just so that it will fit on your precious widescreen TV? That would completely destroy the original artistic vision of the director not to mention that you loose HALF OF YOUR ORIGINAL PICTURE!!!

Actually you would lose only 25%.

Another consideration: now this ZooTV DVD is coming, undoubtedly they will release a PopMart DVD at some time too. PopMart was all about BIG, STUNNING visuals. How to create this big feeling at home if it's a small pillarboxed video on your widescreen tv?

 

[LyricalDrug]

Shouldn't be whining but I wish they threw Ultraviolet in as a DVD extra.

Here's hoping it's tucked in as an easter egg.

 

[Miricale_Drug]

What about you just don't have a widescreen TV?

 

[LyricalDrug]

What about you just don't have a widescreen TV?

Not to sound snobby, but pretty soon you *will* have a widescreen TV. The old ones are being rapidly phased out, and the cost of widescreen / flatscreen / plasma etc. TVs will only continue to drop.

I hope U2 takes this into account and releases a widescreen version...

 

[ntalwar]

I hope U2 takes this into account and releases a widescreen version...

Yeah, Chicago and Slane are already widescreen.
The only reason ZooTv might be 4:3 is if they try widescreen and it looks bad, like Pink Floyd tried (and failed) for Pulse.

 

[Peter]

It doesn't matter to me, as long as there are no gigantic pixels like Vertigo Chicago. Man , they shouldn't have released it that way...

 

[WalkOn21]

It doesn't matter to me, as long as there are no gigantic pixels like Vertigo Chicago. Man , they shouldn't have released it that way...

The "gigantic" pixels you're talking about are actually DCT macroblocks. They are caused by a too high compression (i.e. too much video on one DVD).

I agree, they shouldn't have tried putting the whole 2,5 hour concert on one DVD.

 

[AtomicBono]

You must be the some people who buy the crappy "fullscreen" versions of DVDs because of those "annoying" black bars on top and bottom.

uh, if they have widescreen TVs, why would they buy fullscreen DVDs? with my TV/DVD player anyway I can change the settings so a widescreen DVD takes up the whole screen without the bars. That's kinda the point of having a widescreen TV.

I think if they can do it successfully and not cut too much off, 16:9 is the way to go.

 

[Chrisedge]

Converting this to a 16:9 ratio is the same as pan and scanning a widescreen movie to fit on your 4:3 set. It's about cutting off something that was meant to be seen.

And as far as Chicago goes, I have a beautiful version in full HD (although it's not complete) that was shown on HDnet. And that looks great on my 50" 16:9 DLP

 

[WalkOn21]

Converting this to a 16:9 ratio is the same as pan and scanning a widescreen movie to fit on your 4:3 set. It's about cutting off something that was meant to be seen.

No:

On live events like this, however, editing is done on-the-fly. The shots aren't as meticulously composed as in a movie. It hurts a lot less to tilt&scan those.

 

[ntalwar]

I think the closeup shots will be difficult to crop. For example, when Macphisto is dialing the phone, it's pretty tightly framed in some parts.

 

[Neilz]

I think the closeup shots will be difficult to crop. For example, when Macphisto is dialing the phone, it's pretty tightly framed in some parts.

If the original isn't widescreen, than don't crop! It's a waste of good footage!

PS : I've got the official VideoCD version of Zoo-TV live in Sydney

 

[Popmartijn]

I know everything about the OAR concept. However, I have more respect for this principle with movies. Movies have months of editing, in which the director can make sure the framing is exactly as he intended. On live events like this, however, editing is done on-the-fly. The shots aren't as meticulously composed as in a movie. It hurts a lot less to tilt&scan those.

Although the shots of the concert maybe aren't as meticulously composed as in a movie, they still are meticulously composed. If you compare the released video (and probably upcoming DVD) with the live broadcast version you'll see many shots differing between the two.
And the original shoot was tightly planned. Here's an excerpt from the At The End Of The World Book:

At 1 a.m. the top TV people, along with McGuinness, Ned and Maurice, Robbie Adams and a few other insiders are assembling to review the videotape of tonight's [first night] concert and plan, shot-by-shot, tomorrow's broadcast.
[...]
They roll the tape. There's a great opening crane shot of the crowd, the enormity of the stage. It's an exciting start. The pre-recorded opening fanfare swells under the buzzing of the audience... 'Stop the tape!' Bono has an objection.
'There's too many Look how big this thing is establishing shots,' Bono says. 'We're hitting the viewer over the head with it. He'll say, "All right, all right, it's big!" Also, the fanfare is mixed too low against the crowd noise.'
They start the tape again. The first song, 'Zoo Station', begins. Everyone watches, Bono is writing furiously. 'Stop the tape!' The colour was a little off on this shot, Bono explains, the angle on Edge was bad on that shot, the mix was wrong on this line...
So it goes, shot by shot and line by line through a 140-minute concert. And no-one raises an eyebrow, no-one thinks it's unusual. The people in this room will work all night and not hesitate to argue over a camera angle or guitar mix until the sun returns to the Sydney sky.

So I guess this concert was shot as carefully as some movies. So why change the aspect ratio? They still keep Citizen Kane in 4:3 (which is its original aspect ration). Why mess with perfection?

 

[Reggie Thee Dog]

Been away from the Internet for a week and a half so I'm just getting this information so bear with me here....

Anyhow this announcement is exciting news...however I still want them to release "Red Rocks" but I'll take "Zoo TV" just the same!!!

Someone tell me, TTTYAATW is "NOT" from the Sydney show and is not included in the setlist still!!!!

Either way I'm pretty excited about this, very much so! I hope this will lead to them releasing "Red Rocks" and the "Popmart" shows on DVD soon...and "The Best of 1980-1990" too!

 

[Ellay]

If the original isn't widescreen, than don't crop! It's a waste of good footage!

Yeah, it would seem a bit insane to do this.



Can't wait till it comes out. Trust me, if you're a fan who's never watched this concert before, it's an absolute must have.

 

[WalkOn21]

So I guess this concert was shot as carefully as some movies. So why change the aspect ratio? They still keep Citizen Kane in 4:3 (which is its original aspect ration). Why mess with perfection?

Because, as I said before, the videos have complete different purposes.
Movies are works of art. Cinephiles sometimes say they are moving paintings. They want to recreate the movie on their TV screens exactly as it was composed.
Concert videos, however, are something completely different. They're not meant to be watched like a painting, they want to suck you into the TV, feel like you were at the concert. Now, the human field of view is ~1.75:1 (140 deg. h., 80 deg. v.). To create that overwhelming feeling, the video has to be approx. 1.75:1.

That's why, imho, you can tilt&scan concert videos.

 

[Neilz]

Because, as I said before, the videos have complete different purposes.
Movies are works of art. Cinephiles sometimes say they are moving paintings. They want to recreate the movie on their TV screens exactly as it was composed.
Concert videos, however, are something completely different. They're not meant to be watched like a painting, they want to suck you into the TV, feel like you were at the concert. Now, the human field of view is ~1.75:1 (140 deg. h., 80 deg. v.). To create that overwhelming feeling, the video has to be approx. 1.75:1.

That's why, imho, you can tilt&scan concert videos.

I think the Zoo-TV Sydney video IS a work of art!

You don't win a Grammy with "just another concert video" you know

Cropping the Zoo-TV Sydney footage should be considered a crime!

 

[WalkOn21]

You don't win a Grammy with "just another concert video" you know

It's not like it was a Grammy for cinematography...

 

[Neilz]

It's not like it was a Grammy for cinematography...

It is infact! Daved Mallet (director) received it, not U2 for their performance!

And I'm not trying to prove anything... I'm just saying that most concert DVD's are more cinematic than you think!

Sure a concert DVD is made with the intention to suck you into the TV, feel like you were at the scene; but that's the case with a most movies as well!

I own a lot of concert DVD's and I've owned several Zoo-TV Sydney VHS tapes (even the VideoCD version) and I would really be disappointed if they'd crop the original version!

Like I said before; it would be a waste of good footage!

Any hey, if you REALLY want 16:9... Crop the screen yourself by setting your TV! I do it all the time with the Elevation Boston DVD... But PLEASE leave the original version of Zoo-TV Sydney for what it is!

 

[WalkOn21]

It is infact! Daved Mallet (director) received it, not U2 for their performance!

Hmm, I was wrong then. IMDB states the band + filming staff received it for overall "best long music video".

I'm just saying that most concert DVD's are more cinematic than you think!

Not the ones Hamish Hamilton directed, for sure.

Any hey, if you REALLY want 16:9... Crop the screen yourself by setting your TV!

Eh, that's not the same. The zoom-setting on widescreen tv's just cuts two pieces off. Tilt & scan is done manually on a frame-by-frame basis.

 

[Neilz]

Hmm, I was wrong then. IMDB states the band + filming staff received it for overall "best long music video".

Guess IMDB isn't right áll the time ;-)

Not the ones Hamish Hamilton directed, for sure.

Indeed... I don't like the Hamish DVD's either...

Eh, that's not the same. The zoom-setting on widescreen tv's just cuts two pieces off. Tilt & scan is done manually on a frame-by-frame basis.

But it does give you the wide-screen sensation without cutting the original material...

 

[ntalwar]

I think the Zoo-TV Sydney video IS a work of art!

If the DVD will be 4:3, I don't really see this as an upgrade over the VHS. People already sell DVD transfers of the VHS tape on ebay etc. Except for the bonus dvd, is there really anything to look forward to in that case?

 

[Popmartijn]

What about a good (official) DVD transfer?
At best the pirated DVD they're selling on eBay is a transfer of the laserdisc edition. Hopefully, this one will have an improved transfer.

And yes, you can also look forward to finally having this show on DVD!

 

[WalkOn21]

Guess IMDB isn't right áll the time ;-)

It certainly isn't. I try to send them correction messages for every mistake I see, but they've only corrected about half of them. For the other ones, I guess, they think there's nothing wrong with them.

 

[Neilz]

If the DVD will be 4:3, I don't really see this as an upgrade over the VHS. People already sell DVD transfers of the VHS tape on ebay etc. Except for the bonus dvd, is there really anything to look forward to in that case?

Have you watched a VHS tape recently? If not, you have clearly forgotten how bad the picture is compared with DVD!

And the bootleg DVD version's are crap too! You can't call that a transfer! That's just a plain old copy of the VHS, VideoCD or Laserdisc version!

U2 are releasing a digitally remastered version transfered from the master tapes... That's a whole different thing

 

[Chrisedge]

Using your logic it would be ok to pan and scan Rattle and Hum because it was filmed live.

Cropping a 4:3 video to fill a 16:9 screen is just as bad as the other way around. You sound JUST like J6P that "Doesn't want those black bars"

OAR = It's about the right image.

 

[ntalwar]

Using your logic it would be ok to pan and scan Rattle and Hum because it was filmed live.

Cropping a 4:3 video to fill a 16:9 screen is just as bad as the other way around. You sound JUST like J6P that "Doesn't want those black bars"

OAR = It's about the right image.

No one really complained in the 80s and 90s when 2.4:1 Hollywood movies had the sides cropped off to fit a 4:3 screen in VHS format. I don't mind black bars on the top and bottom, but the ones on the sides reduce the effective size of a widescreen tv by a lot.

 

[WalkOn21]

Using your logic it would be ok to pan and scan Rattle and Hum because it was filmed live.

No - Rattle and Hum was edited afterwards. According to some users in this thread, ZooTV was edited live.

Cropping a 4:3 video to fill a 16:9 screen is just as bad as the other way around. You sound JUST like J6P that "Doesn't want those black bars"

OAR = It's about the right image.

I frankly quite dislike your demeaning attitude. OK, you like OAR, we get the point. No need to call us J6P's - which is a term, btw, that is only used on videophile forums full of people thinking they are 'better' than non-videophiles.

You are wrong, by the way, in saying that a 16:9 transfer wouldn't be OAR. If the original director and U2 approve of the matting, 16:9 will be one of the OARs too. It won't be NAR (negative aspect ratio), true, but as it was the director who does the framing it certainly is OAR (which roughly translates as: the amount of image the director intended you to see).

 

[LMP]

No one really complained in the 80s and 90s when 2.4:1 Hollywood movies had the sides cropped off to fit a 4:3 screen in VHS format. I don't mind black bars on the top and bottom, but the ones on the sides reduce the effective size of a widescreen tv by a lot.

I've been buying DVDs of my old VHS tapes because of the pan and scan, like Ghostbusters for example.

I think it takes something away from the overall quality of the film.

 

[Neilz]

No - Rattle and Hum was edited afterwards. According to some users in this thread, ZooTV was edited live.

But Rattle and Hum is not a concert registration! Rattle and Hum is a movie/documentary!

And Zoo-TV Sydney was broadcasted (and edited) live and later just tweaked for the VHS... I've seen both versions and they are really quite the same...

PS. Chrisedge is right in my opinion... cropping old 2.4:1 movies to 4:3 is not more than normal... The bars on the screen would be larger than life! Furthermore; The sides of a movie screen are never as important as the top/bottom of a movie screen... Cropping a perfectly normal and good 4:3 format to 16:9 is a crime!

4:3 is easily watchable on a 16:9 TV... You can even leave the formate at 4:3 without missing anything or crop the picture yourself... Old 2.4:1 format isn't viewable on a small 4:3 TV!