Madonna urges Bush to show restraint

[U2ITNOL]

This just boils me!!!! Show restraint?!! Those cowardly SOB's murdered thousands of innocent Americans and Madonna wants us to sit back and do nothing?!!! That greedy, un-American bitch!

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Pop diva Madonna (news - web sites) led a prayer for peace on Friday at a sold-old concert at the Staples Center in Los Angeles, urging President Bush (news - web sites) to show restraint in retaliating for Tuesday's attacks on the Pentagon (news - web sites) and the World Trade Center.

``Last night, we had a moment's prayer for everybody who died on Tuesday,'' said the singer, who had opened the show wearing a skirt made from an American flag.

``Tonight I'd like to say a prayer for peace,'' she told the crowd of about 18,000 people. ``Violence begets violence, and I don't know about you, but I want to live a long and happy life, and I want my kids to live a long and happy life.''

The crowd quieted down, but before the prayer minute was up, people began chanting, ``USA, USA!''

Madonna resumed her tour on Thursday night at the Staples Center after canceling her show there on Tuesday in the wake of the attacks in New York and Washington. Security was heightened on Friday at the auditorium.

Ticket-holders were asked to open their bags as they entered the building, which was staffed by extra officers and bomb-sniffing dogs.

``We're not doing this show because we want people to forget,'' she told the audience, which included such celebrities as actress Cameron Diaz and comedian Andy Dick. ``We're doing this because we want people to remember how precious life is.''

The concert featured an array of costumes, fantasy stage effects and elaborate choreography.

``It was horrible (on Tuesday), but I'd like to think of it as a wake-up call. There's terrorism every day all over the world,'' Madonna said.

People with tickets for Tuesday's canceled date will be admitted to Saturday's show.

 

[melon]

I'm equally disgusted that those who call for peace are now "un-American." Madonna's heart is in the right place, and just because she personally does not support a war, it does not mean that she supports the terrorists either.

These are trying times for liberals and pacifists indeed...

Melon

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How long must we sing this song?!

 

[frogbat]

more name calling, sweet

i feel terribly sick and am really expecting a viscious and terrible war if the posts on this board are anything to go by

 

[speedracer]

Peace is great, but sometimes it doesn't happen until oceans of blood have been spilled. Terribly ironic, but that's the human condition.

 

[Sledgehammer]

This is the best move Madonna has ever made after working with William Orbit.

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"I'm not afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens", Woody Allen

 

[SkeeK]

I agree with sledgehammer, frogbat and melon



[This message has been edited by SkeeK (edited 09-15-2001).]

 

[Blue Room]

Hey I'am all for peace. But do you honestly think if the U.S. does not retaliate we are going to have peace? No way, these scum bag terrorists will think they can do anything without fear of reprisal if something is not done and things will get worse than they already are. You cant have talks or negotiations with terrorists.

As said previously the road to peace in this situation is unfortunately through war. Its sad that this is the case but we did not ask to have jumbo jets flown into a skyscraper on purpose to kill thousands of innocent people. We did not start it but we are going to finish it and I have no problem with that. I'am firmly behind our president whatever decision he makes.

[This message has been edited by Blue Room (edited 09-15-2001).]

 

[U2ITNOL]

I apologize for the name-calling in my 1st post. This has been a very trying week for all of us. I'm the type of person who normally keeps his emotions inside. I don't cry often, but my tears flowed yesterday many times watching the events on tv. I cried watching the National Day of Prayer and Remembrance service in D.C. And then seeing family and friends of missing loved ones, holding up flyers with photographs, clinging to hope that they're loved ones are somehow still alive. Just gut-wrenching. Now, I'm feeling angry, very angry at the monsters who did this. Calling Madonna a bitch was not the right thing to do, and I apologize. But I do STRONGLY disagree with Madonna's stance that President Bush should show restraint. These terrorists must be wiped off the face of the earth. Now! They started this war, not us. These religious fanatics hate America and everything it stands for. They'd like nothing better than to see every American die. And they're willing to give up their own lives to meet their goal. I don't believe for a minute that these attacks are over. They've only just started. Who's next? Chicago? L.A.? Atlanta? The only way to deal with terrorists is violence. Diplomacy will just not work. Earlier this morning on Fox News, they interivewed a former Israeli Prime Minsister. What he had to say sent chills up and down my spine. Israel has proof that Middle Eastern countries that harbor and support terrorists, like Iran and Iraq, are not too far from having nuclear capabilities. Iran already has developed ballistic missles that can reach Europe. In a few years, they'll have missles that can reach cities on the US Eastern seaboard. If they get their hands on plutonium and put nuclear warheads on these missles, God help us. This is what we're facing in the future if we don't act now. I'll get off my soapbox now...

 

[dream wanderer]

I think what Madonna and most people mean by 'restraint' is...let's wait until we are absolutely sure we have the right people before we go running off half cocked bombing away at someone who may have had nothing to do with it..

At least that's how I took it...

dream wanderer

[This message has been edited by dream wanderer (edited 09-15-2001).]

 

[pub crawler]

I agree with sledgehammer, frogbat, melon, SkeeK and dream wanderer.

 

[diamondbruno9]

Originally posted by U2ITNOL:
I apologize for the name-calling in my 1st post. This has been a very trying week for all of us. I'm the type of person who normally keeps his emotions inside. I don't cry often, but my tears flowed yesterday many times watching the events on tv. I cried watching the National Day of Prayer and Remembrance service in D.C. And then seeing family and friends of missing loved ones, holding up flyers with photographs, clinging to hope that they're loved ones are somehow still alive. Just gut-wrenching. Now, I'm feeling angry, very angry at the monsters who did this. Calling Madonna a bitch was not the right thing to do, and I apologize. But I do STRONGLY disagree with Madonna's stance that President Bush should show restraint. These terrorists must be wiped off the face of the earth. Now! They started this war, not us. These religious fanatics hate America and everything it stands for. They'd like nothing better than to see every American die. And they're willing to give up their own lives to meet their goal. I don't believe for a minute that these attacks are over. They've only just started. Who's next? Chicago? L.A.? Atlanta? The only way to deal with terrorists is violence. Diplomacy will just not work. Earlier this morning on Fox News, they interivewed a former Israeli Prime Minsister. What he had to say sent chills up and down my spine. Israel has proof that Middle Eastern countries that harbor and support terrorists, like Iran and Iraq, are not too far from having nuclear capabilities. Iran already has developed ballistic missles that can reach Europe. In a few years, they'll have missles that can reach cities on the US Eastern seaboard. If they get their hands on plutonium and put nuclear warheads on these missles, God help us. This is what we're facing in the future if we don't act now. I'll get off my soapbox now...

U2ITOL-I AGREE. I agree not 'glee-fully' but out of neceessity.

For the others respondents in this thread I ask, can mercy rob justice?

U2ITOL btw I live in Scottsdale, Az. Godspeed-Db9

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"..it's about breaking barriers, transcending boundries and conquering great divides"-Bono 1987

---------
An open letter to Bono from myself www.arizonaautoweb.com/bono/

 

[U2ITNOL]

Originally posted by diamondbruno9:
U2ITOL btw I live in Scottsdale, Az. Godspeed-Db9

Hi neighbor! I live down in Ahwatukee. Wasn't it shocking to find out yesterday that one of the terrorist pilots aboard the plane that crashed into the Pentagon used to live in Phoenix and received pilot training in Scottsdale?

 

[diamondbruno9]

Originally posted by U2ITNOL:
Hi neighbor! I live down in Ahwatukee. Wasn't it shocking to find out yesterday that one of the terrorist pilots aboard the plane that crashed into the Pentagon used to live in Phoenix and received pilot training in Scottsdale?

Yeah! Part of our day and age.

Matter of fact I had to retrieve my little ones early from school the other day bcuz of a bomb -threat.

Anyway,U2ITOL go to my 'open letter' at bottom of pg. and perhaps we can meet sometime. My email addy is attached. Db9

------------------
"..it's about breaking barriers, transcending boundries and conquering great divides"-Bono 1987

---------
An open letter to Bono from myself www.arizonaautoweb.com/bono/

 

[the olive]

I agree with Blue Room. The terrorists now know that they have the power to kill thousands, and we know that they are willing to do it. They clearly are escalating the magnitude of their attacks, and when they get there hands on something nuclear they WILL use it.

We can sit back and wait for them to level a city, or begin to mount a massive diplomatic and military campaign against them. Restraint, yes, but only until we know who they are and where they are hiding. Then the full efforts of the civilized world should be mobilized to counter the threat. It wont be easy, but it must be done.

If we don't do our best to stop them now, who knows - maybe you and I will be the ones jumping from burning buildings next time...

 

[Achtung Bubba]

Madonna said, "Violence begets violence, and I don't know about you, but I want to live a long and happy life, and I want my kids to live a long and happy life."

She is not preaching restraint IN retaliation (i.e., being careful in our efforts). She is preaching restraing FROM retaliation -- not retaliating at all.

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- Achtung Bubba

September, streets capsizing,
Spilling over, down the drain

"You know, by God, I actually pity those poor bastards we're goin' up against. By God, I do. We're not just gonna shoot the bastards, we're going to cut out their living guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks. We're going to murder those lousy...bastards by the bushel."
from the film Patton

 

[MSU2mike]

Originally posted by U2LA:
What is wrong with RESTRAINT?? It means dont wipe out a whole country, do not lead to WWIII and the death of millions, it means RESTRAINT.

Hello, it does not f&*king mean DONT RETALIATE against those that did this. It means use RESSTRAINT, and I for one am cool with that.

ARGH

Of course.

Except that a fair amount of people here seem to indicate that they'd rather talk it out than use any force at all, as if that would have any effect. Go talk to them, but don't complain when you get shot in the back on your way out.

Personally, I think force is necessary but would agree that some degree or restraint needs to be shown. Frankly, I think the top aspect in halting this in the future is to essentially double the CIA's budget, and get as many other countries on board as possible in the sharing of information regarding terrorist activity. Severely punishing those countries that harbor terrorists is also necessary, as has been hashed and rehashed numerous times.



[This message has been edited by MSU2mike (edited 09-15-2001).]

 

[Red Ships of Scalla-Festa]

i find it humorous that all the u2 fans here hate what madonna said, even though u2 will echo the same thing eventually. madonna was right on the money with what she said, and calearly if you disagree, you are searching for revenge and not justice. you will not bring those lives back by killing others. you just dont get it do you.

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-deathbear

 

[bullet the blue sky]

personally i think we should kill everybody. that way we can truly ensure peace on earth.

well... until the great ant disturbance of 2561, of course.

 

[The_Sweetest_Thing]

Originally posted by Red Ships of Scalla-Festa:
i find it humorous that all the u2 fans here hate what madonna said, even though u2 will echo the same thing eventually. madonna was right on the money with what she said, and calearly if you disagree, you are searching for revenge and not justice. you will not bring those lives back by killing others. you just dont get it do you.

YEs, yes, yes. I couldn't have said it better myself...


Why retaliate? So what if you kill hundreds of thousadns of people in Afhganistan, or Lebanon...there still exists terrorists in Sri LAnka, India, CHina, Canada, Slovenia....worldwide. Killing one or even hundreds will not solve this problem

 

[pub crawler]

Originally posted by Red Ships of Scalla-Festa:
madonna was right on the money with what she said, and calearly if you disagree, you are searching for revenge and not justice.

Unfortunately, deathbear, for a number of people here the words "revenge" and "justice" mean the same thing.

 

[Achtung Bubba]

WHY retaliate?

Because we CAN eliminate the system that produced these attacks, we CAN make the U.S. safer as a result, and we need to show the world that we will not be attacked like this without quick and brutal retaliation.

And, yeah, Red Ships, you can't bring back the lives lost. But you can make sure they did not die in vain by preventing the almost inevitable second, third, and fourth attacks.

------------------
- Achtung Bubba

September, streets capsizing,
Spilling over, down the drain

"You know, by God, I actually pity those poor bastards we're goin' up against. By God, I do. We're not just gonna shoot the bastards, we're going to cut out their living guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks. We're going to murder those lousy...bastards by the bushel."
from the film Patton

 

[Red Ships of Scalla-Festa]

not to be taken as to great offence but this quote:

"Because we CAN eliminate the system that produced these attacks, we CAN make the U.S. safer as a result, and we need to show the world that we will not be attacked like this without quick and brutal retaliation."

is the most absurd thing ive heard all day. eliminate the system that produced these attacks? so you wipe out laden, you think there are no more people willing to do what he preaches? there are terrorists all OVER the world. it is a simple fact of life.

you produced an ansolute in your sentance, with the word "ELIMINATE", and i simply wanted to say that i think its impossible with revenge, not with communication..

------------------
-deathbear

 

[Achtung Bubba]

There are terrorists all over the world, but not for long.

 

[DoctorGonzo]

Because we CAN eliminate the system that produced these attacks, we CAN make the U.S. safer as a result, and we need to show the world that we will not be attacked like this without quick and brutal retaliation.

It hasn't worked for Israel, now has it?

They have the 4th largest millitary in the world, funded and armed by the United States and they cannot eliminate terrorist activity in a relatively small speck of land, no matter what lengths they go to.

Assasinations haven't worked for them. Ocupation hasn't worked. Shooting children throwing rocks hasn't worked. Incessant searches based on the race of the person in question hasn't worked. Plowing over settlements and relocating the population to small, controlled areas hasn't worked. Torturing for information hasn't worked. And this in in a postage-stamp sized area.

How are we going to end the attacks if no millitary solution has ever proven itself remotely useful in all of history? Israel took the gloves off so-to-speak decades ago, and look at where they are now!

Unless for a moment, we look at why these people are after us, and what we can do to prevent future attacks, nothing will change, except the number of people dead. History has proven this time and time again.

However, even if we are doing something wrong, we won't admit we are at fault because we don't want to look like we are "caving in to terrorists" and will not reconsider our policies no matter what.

Israel has chosen this path, and it has been a total disaster for everyone involved. History shows you can throw all the troops, planes and bombs at terrorists and you will not stop the attacks. The very nature of terrorist organizations ensures that this will be the case.

What we are doing here is what Israel has done, but on a global scale. We are setting out to flatten any nation, any people that has any terrorist element present. This is a war we cannot win, a war with no clear victory. You can flatten Afganastan five times over and the terrorist will still be there. You can march into Terhan, Bagdad, Damascus, etc and the terrorists will still be there, in fact, the scorched-earth campaign that many in the U.S leadership envision will probably create more problems than it could ever solve. (See: Israeli occupations and the resulting rise in terrorist cells and parent organizations)

Bush, Powell, Rumsfeld, et al are telling us over and over that this is going to be a long, long campaign that will cost us dearly.

They see the reality of this, they see where this is going but I think most Americans are blind to what they are getting into. This is a permanent state of emergency and conflict that will take their money, their freedom (take a look at the Orwellian legistlation going through at the moment) and the lives of the people they care about.

 

[Achtung Bubba]

I think it's worked for Israel in one respect: the organizations that have wanted Israel wiped off the face of the Earth have not yet won.

And you must keep in mind that all our efforts have been made in the handcuffs of peacetime. If we declare war (I believe we will), we'll be able to do all kinds of things we couldn't do before.

And if you think military efforts are useless, how effective do you think capitulation will be?

"Unless for a moment, we look at why these people are after us, and what we can do to prevent future attacks, nothing will change, except the number of people dead. History has proven this time and time again."

From (yet another) NR online article ( http://www.nationalreview.com/daily/nr091101.shtml )

Someone has declared war on us. Why? There will be those who are tempted to think that we could live in peace if only we did less to cause offense: if we withdrew our support from Israel, our troops from Saudi Arabia, our sanctions on Iraq. If we withdrew from the costs of empire and the burdens of leadership.

But this is an illusion. It is not the case that the natural disposition of all human beings, absent provocation, is friendliness to the United States. We have enemies ? enemies who hate the fact and the character of our power, not just the uses to which it is put. We cannot choose to stop being the most powerful country in the world, or to stop standing for freedom and democracy. No amount of pre-emptive capitulation to our enemies' demands ? which is what, after all, a no-offense strategy would amount to ? would ever be enough.

All that we can do is to fight back. And pray.


------------------
- Achtung Bubba

September, streets capsizing,
Spilling over, down the drain

"You know, by God, I actually pity those poor bastards we're goin' up against. By God, I do. We're not just gonna shoot the bastards, we're going to cut out their living guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks. We're going to murder those lousy...bastards by the bushel."
from the film Patton

 

[madonna's child]

Originally posted by Sledgehammer:
This is the best move Madonna has ever made after working with William Orbit.

lol!

i stand behind what madonna said, and not just because i'm a fan. i would interpret madonna's words as meaning she believes we should be positive about who is to blame before we begin retaliation. i don't think she's saying we shouldn't get our revenge, but that our revenge should focus on those who deserve it. if we attack afghanistan, we should be sure that bin laden (if he is responsible) is there and that we can defintly kill him.

i'm certain madonna is not saying we shouldn't avenge the dead. she is donating all the money from thursday's concert to the families of victims. she also wore an american flag skirt instead of her usual scottish kilt. i think it's apparent madonna's heart is in the right, and american, place.

------------------
"I can't believe the news today,
Oh, I can't close my eyes
And make it go away.
How long...
How long must we sing this song?
How long? How long...
'cause tonight...we can be as one."

Love to all of you,
Emily

 

[diamondbruno9]

Bubba w /the good back-hand...Db9

------------------
"..it's about breaking barriers, transcending boundries and conquering great divides"-Bono 1987

---------
An open letter to Bono from myself www.arizonaautoweb.com/bono/

 

[DoctorGonzo]

I think it's worked for Israel in one respect: the organizations that have wanted Israel wiped off the face of the Earth have not yet won.

Instead, the nation exists in a permanent state of war and emergency, and terrorist attacks still take the lives of its citizens.

And you must keep in mind that all our efforts have been made in the handcuffs of peacetime. If we declare war (I believe we will), we'll be able to do all kinds of things we couldn't do before.

As I've pointed out already, Israel took off those handcuffs decades ago. Their willingness to stop at nothing (except change their policies, those that the UN says are war crimes) has not had any positive effect.

And if you think military efforts are useless, how effective do you think capitulation will be?

I beleive I have proven that Israel commits criminal acts with our support and our support is the overriding reason we are targeted. The fact some horrible people have done some horrible things to us because of this does not change the facts of the matter.

But this is an illusion. It is not the case that the natural disposition of all human beings, absent provocation, is friendliness to the United States. We have enemies ? enemies who hate the fact and the character of our power, not just the uses to which it is put. We cannot choose to stop being the most powerful country in the world, or to stop standing for freedom and democracy.

Israel's actions are in no way an attempt to "stand up for freedom and democracy".

 

[Achtung Bubba]

Yes, Israel lives in a permanent state of emergency, but I see how that's worse than BEING WIPED OUT.

Israel hasn't already done everything that the US will, including probably targeting Afghanistan.

And I don't think you've PROVEN this:

"Israel commits criminal acts with our support and our support is the overriding reason we are targeted."

I don't believe you can prove to me with any level of confidence that the U.S. will no longer be targeted if we give up Israel. We will always be targetd. In which case, (and I again refer to the article I mentioned above):

No amount of pre-emptive capitulation to our enemies' demands ... would ever be enough.

------------------
- Achtung Bubba

September, streets capsizing,
Spilling over, down the drain

"You know, by God, I actually pity those poor bastards we're goin' up against. By God, I do. We're not just gonna shoot the bastards, we're going to cut out their living guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks. We're going to murder those lousy...bastards by the bushel."
from the film Patton

 

[speedracer]

Madonna and Saddam Hussein have both urged the US to show restraint and wisdom in their actions.

Make of this what you will. I'm just fishing here.

[This message has been edited by speedracer (edited 09-15-2001).]