LP15 - We're due for a break from the norm

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Agreed, I think Bono's voice has improved since the Elevation era. He did sound weaker back then.

I also still listen to SOE a lot and haven't gotten tired of it. Lately I don't have the patience for GOOYOW and AS, so I've been skipping them. The rest is solid gold.

I feel the same about GOOYOW & AS. Enjoyed AS live but have a hard time listening to the studio. I just laugh to myself about GOOYOW. I do enjoy the chorus (the part that sounds like Beautiful Day) though.
 
I like SOE miles better than SOI. I'll put SOE on quite a bit when I'm chilling/cooking, or whatever calls for some tunes.

It's a good album that could have been great. Get Out is just trash, aside from Edge's backing vocals. Guitar is boring, solo is meh, and Larry's drumming isn't even needed.

My issues with U2 in this era are:

Bono's literal song writing. It just doesn't have the same umph, even if he was singing about nothing back in the 80's/90s, his voice and lyrics just felt like the final brush of a painting. The band created that landscape and he topped it off.

Bono's voice being so loud in the mix. We get it, Bono can sing like a bird. Doesn't mean he has to drown out his guitar player.

Speaking of guitar, Edge really hasn't produced anything great with this SOI/SOE. He was starting to lose it a bit with NLOTH, but there were some interesting textures in there. There is nothing Edgey about his playing anymore. Being the lead and rhythm guitarist meant he had to come up with some interesting sounds, especially since he isn't the most technical player around. I used to look forward to his contributions to a new U2 song/album the most. Now it's more a feeling of how many songs are going to have the Walk On / SFS playing?

My hope going forward is that Edge and Bono get rid of their Spiderman Show Tune style of music, get rid of this idea that now Edge has to sample other guitarists because you know hip hop does that sort of thing.....

and most of all, become a band again. This is the Bono and Edge band, with Larry and Adam as part time musicians. I remember an interview with Adam and they asked him about that bass part in The Blackout, and he said Edge came up with it.....I realize that Edge has probably come up with a lot of parts over the years.....but can we get Adam to at least try and make the coolest bass lines again?

Next album, U2 set aside a year in the studio to just play. Record it. Get Danny back, maybe even Brian as long as Wil.i.am or Tedder don't show up, and see what happens.

No more god damn HITS!!! Just make U2 music and I honestly believe they'll probably get that relevance they so want again.
 
To each their own and I know around here this will be an unpopular opinion but I still find Moment Of Surrender as one of the most unlistenable songs the band has ever done. It sounds like the band are trying to pass a creative kidney stone.

Agreed. I really just have never understood the love for this song from the band, many hardcores, critics, and Eno himself. I don't even find it unlistenable, just the reverence accorded it I find ludicrous. But again, to each their own. ( "Full disclosure": I stayed in the Riad El Yacout a few years go, too.)
 
Am I the only one who thinks the album version of Blackout blows?

That version they released ahead of the album seemed faster, more urgent and passionate. The album version feels like the band Train trying to play “Master of Puppets” or something.

Keep in mind, I like the song. It slays live, or at least it would if you could see the band. And that version from last August kicked ass. I was disappointed with what was On SOE.
 
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I do prefer the crashing sound of the drums after the verse lines in the original live version; on the studio take the focus is more on the bass.

There's definitely a loss of energy on the album, but it still creates a great groove.
 
That Facebook version of The Blackout was great. The tour version is very good but something was missing; I can’t put my finger on it. I feel like they should play it as in the video- just guys on the stage and let the crowd go nuts. Just feels like an immersive song when presented that way. Maybe because I was in GA close to the screen but everybody seemed focused on the spectacle.

The album version is fine.
 
Regarding SOE- I still listen to a good chunk of it almost every day. Since December, most days start by listening to Love Is All We Have Left. Throughout the day I’ll hit The Best Thing and Summer of Love through The Little Things at least once. Landlady, 13, and The Blackout will make an occasional appearance.

The Best Thing has stuck with me longer than I’d thought. I actually never tire of it.
 
That breakdown with the overly-processed guitar and cheesy drum sound right before Edge’s falsetto middle 8 is one of the low points of the band’s career. Pandering pop garbage.

The rest of the song doesn’t bother me.
 
I feel like they should play it as in the video- just guys on the stage and let the crowd go nuts. Just feels like an immersive song when presented that way. Maybe because I was in GA close to the screen but everybody seemed focused on the spectacle.

I was in a similar spot to you in the GA section and I thought the whole thing was pretty good overall. Performance and presentation to work fine, imo.

Kind of odd though... I thought a few people on here didn't want them to do the "four guys playing without the video screen" for the first few songs again on this tour. And then they don't and for some, it's the opposite argument now. I guess that's message boards for you though.
 
I was in a similar spot to you in the GA section and I thought the whole thing was pretty good overall. Performance and presentation to work fine, imo.

Kind of odd though... I thought a few people on here didn't want them to do the "four guys playing without the video screen" for the first few songs again on this tour. And then they don't and for some, it's the opposite argument now. I guess that's message boards for you though.
I don't thin anyone's arguing that they shouldn't use the screen at the start... those who are debating Blackout's staging are arguing against being IN the screen to start, not that it's being used.
 
The tour version is very good but something was missing; I can’t put my finger on it. I feel like they should play it as in the video- just guys on the stage and let the crowd go nuts. Just feels like an immersive song when presented that way. Maybe because I was in GA close to the screen but everybody seemed focused on the spectacle.

The album version is fine.


Let me start by saying the album version of Blackout is awesome. Sure there are aspects that can be improved but I love the song. I think the chorus is one of the best of their career.

The live version sounds great and is one of the few songs in the SOI/SOE era that has translated very well live. But you are 100% right that something is missing and it's on my list of "post McGuiness" dumb decisions.

U2 excels live, in fact they are at their best in a live environment. U2 tours open on a very exciting note, even when they are songs you might not care for. For me:

Popmart Tour: I don't like Mofo but the entrance of the band on the stage one by one with Bono coming in last was a huge build up all while "Pop Muzak" blasted. Mofo was performed with excitement with Bono jumping all over the place and Edge moving around.

Elevation Tour: the one by one entrance while the remix version of Elevation is playing in the background with Bono jumping in with the songs chorus all with the lights on....this was fucking amazing. I know a lot of hate is in this place for elevation but if that opening didn't get you jumping..you're dead inside ;)

Vertigo Tour: one of the more subdued openings but COBl worked well with the slow burn opening and the lighting

360: Breathe....Larry walks out alone and smashed the drums and then one by one they enter with Bono coming in last. This was an exciting opening to a song that didn't work great live

360: EBTTRT....insanely awesome and sooooooo much energy

iE Tour: The Miracle is an okay song but it worked well live and Bono coming on to the stage to start a sing along, which worked every time, and then right when he hits the main stage Edges guitar kicks in....well done opening.

Now we come to Ei and The Blackout.....and here is where the post-McGuiness dumbfuckery starts:

One of the biggest wow moments at a U2 show is when the band shows up(see above examples) and they fuck it up. Bono and only Bono(see what I did there) comes out to lip sync a very slow/mellow song. The crowds I have seen on YouTube and at my show are very excited for about 30 seconds until they realize it's just Bono and he is miming the album version of LIAWHL. The visuals are very meh at this time and there is nothing to get excited about (no other band members, no sing along chorus, no guitar or drum solo and no amazing vocal moments a la Miss Sarajevo or Sometimes You Can't Make it on Your Own (did I mention he was lip syncing during a live show most people payed hundreds of dollars to show up at).

Then he disappears and the crowd (at least at my show and from most of what I have seen on YouTube) is just kind of confused. Then Blackout starts....sweet, right? But no band. It's only during the chorus that you realize they are in the screen but for 85% of the song you are not able to see the band....you are simply looking at a screen with ore recorded visuals. Then the screen finally rises and...sweet, there they are and the crowd finally gets excited but the band has very limited movement because they are in a ~6 foot wide cat walk. So Edge and Bonos energy is limited to them.....turning around every few seconds.

So, for the first song and a half to open up the show, you not only don't see the band but you are either listening to a lip synced performance of an album cut or watching a screen with pre recorded images. With this opening, they sucked all of the excitement and energy out of the "here's U2" moment. I mean, I LOVE the Blackout but how can I really get into the song when I don't even see any of the band members? I think the screen is an awesome add on to the show but by making it the focal point of the show opening, you take the attention, energy and excitement normally reserved for the band away. They should have just opened with the Blackout and a similar "intro" style as iE/360 and let the song/band be the focal point.
 
If anyone is interested in another "post-McGuiness" dumbfuckery moment.....performing a pre-recorded version of GOOYOW a mile away from any other human beings during the Grammys.

Pitch idea must have went something like:

"Hey, you know that band U2 that's so good live and and almost always get a crowd going? well fuck that, let's put them in the middle of the fucking Hudson River and pre-recorded it while the sun is setting and then we can play it at 10p at night. Oh, and let's dress the bassist up like it's Antarctica because the "cold as balls" look is a hit with the kids" ....."oh, lets also make sure we get some kind of forced peace sign from the lead singer in front of the Statue of Liberty!"

And no one bring up the Spanish performance of Best Thing with Bono, Adam and Kygo....that was just sad and embarrassing for everyone.....I don't want to think about that.
 
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If anyone is interested in another "post-McGuiness" dumbfuckery moment.....performing a pre-recorded version of GOOYOW a mile away from any other human beings during the Grammys.

Pitch idea must have went something like:

"Hey, you know that band U2 that's so good live and and almost always get a crowd going? well fuck that, let's put them in the middle of the fucking Hudson River and pre-recorded it while the sun is setting and then we can play it at 10p at night. Oh, and let's dress the bassist up like it's Antarctica because the "cold as balls" look is a hit with the kids" ....."oh, lets also make sure we get some kind of forced peace sign from the lead singer in front of the Statue of Liberty!"

And no one bring up the Spanish performance of Best Thing with Bono, Adam and Kygo....that was just sad and embarrassing for everyone.....I don't want to think about that.



Haha so true! Bono is one of the most engaging frontmen in the history of live performance... let’s stick him out in the middle of the water in freezing temperatures so he can perform for the fish and the dead bodies!! Stupid move, but Statue of Liberty! America!

I will say, at the concert while they were playing Blackout, I didn’t really feel like the concert had begun yet... because I couldn’t SEE THE BAND!! I get performing inside the screen is a nice visual, but not for the opening number!

I really love that Facebook version of Blackout. The album cut feels like a neutered version of the Facebook version. I still like it, but always feel like U2 sound so restrained in the soe version. Minor complaints though, I think SOE is a good album that I will enjoy for years to come.

Little Things gets my blood pumping in ways I never thought were possible!
 
Let me start by saying the album version of Blackout is awesome. Sure there are aspects that can be improved but I love the song. I think the chorus is one of the best of their career.

The live version sounds great and is one of the few songs in the SOI/SOE era that has translated very well live. But you are 100% right that something is missing and it's on my list of "post McGuiness" dumb decisions.

U2 excels live, in fact they are at their best in a live environment. U2 tours open on a very exciting note, even when they are songs you might not care for. For me:

Popmart Tour: I don't like Mofo but the entrance of the band on the stage one by one with Bono coming in last was a huge build up all while "Pop Muzak" blasted. Mofo was performed with excitement with Bono jumping all over the place and Edge moving around.

Elevation Tour: the one by one entrance while the remix version of Elevation is playing in the background with Bono jumping in with the songs chorus all with the lights on....this was fucking amazing. I know a lot of hate is in this place for elevation but if that opening didn't get you jumping..you're dead inside ;)

Vertigo Tour: one of the more subdued openings but COBl worked well with the slow burn opening and the lighting

360: Breathe....Larry walks out alone and smashed the drums and then one by one they enter with Bono coming in last. This was an exciting opening to a song that didn't work great live

360: EBTTRT....insanely awesome and sooooooo much energy

iE Tour: The Miracle is an okay song but it worked well live and Bono coming on to the stage to start a sing along, which worked every time, and then right when he hits the main stage Edges guitar kicks in....well done opening.

Now we come to Ei and The Blackout.....and here is where the post-McGuiness dumbfuckery starts:

One of the biggest wow moments at a U2 show is when the band shows up(see above examples) and they fuck it up. Bono and only Bono(see what I did there) comes out to lip sync a very slow/mellow song. The crowds I have seen on YouTube and at my show are very excited for about 30 seconds until they realize it's just Bono and he is miming the album version of LIAWHL. The visuals are very meh at this time and there is nothing to get excited about (no other band members, no sing along chorus, no guitar or drum solo and no amazing vocal moments a la Miss Sarajevo or Sometimes You Can't Make it on Your Own (did I mention he was lip syncing during a live show most people payed hundreds of dollars to show up at).

Then he disappears and the crowd (at least at my show and from most of what I have seen on YouTube) is just kind of confused. Then Blackout starts....sweet, right? But no band. It's only during the chorus that you realize they are in the screen but for 85% of the song you are not able to see the band....you are simply looking at a screen with ore recorded visuals. Then the screen finally rises and...sweet, there they are and the crowd finally gets excited but the band has very limited movement because they are in a ~6 foot wide cat walk. So Edge and Bonos energy is limited to them.....turning around every few seconds.

So, for the first song and a half to open up the show, you not only don't see the band but you are either listening to a lip synced performance of an album cut or watching a screen with pre recorded images. With this opening, they sucked all of the excitement and energy out of the "here's U2" moment. I mean, I LOVE the Blackout but how can I really get into the song when I don't even see any of the band members? I think the screen is an awesome add on to the show but by making it the focal point of the show opening, you take the attention, energy and excitement normally reserved for the band away. They should have just opened with the Blackout and a similar "intro" style as iE/360 and let the song/band be the focal point.



Absolutely. Great breakdown. I agree with about 90% of this and your follow up post.

I’m conflicted about the opening. It doesn’t have the explosive opening like most of the previous tours that we all loved, but that may be the point. We expect the usual and they went in the opposite direction, which makes it stand out. When I look at it that way, and think of the meaning and theme, I love it. But then I still think wtf, a U2 show just started and we’re not jumping around yelling back a chorus, and that’s fucking bullshit.
 
Why on Earth would any of this have to do with MvGuinness not being around?

He was not the creative director.

The same people making those decisions then are making them now.



It's an arbitrary event around the point in time that I find the quality of the bands decisions have significantly declined.

If you want me to be specific...I would say 2/1/14 is the date when the very questionable decisions started. So we can call it the "post Super Bowl" or "post invisible" or whatever but I think that when McGuinness left is when a lot of ridiculous decisions began and for all we know.....him leaving may have been the first of those decisions (I personally am not convinced, not that it matters what I think, he wanted to leave on his own but even if he did, that seems to be a good starting point that led to two billionaires touching fingers awkwardly.)

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The same people making those decisions then are making them now.



One thing to add to my above post, you are likely right that the same people are making the decisions but those people are making "different" decisions and that's obvious.

Also, I'm not talking about song quality because most people here would say shit went south in 2001(I also really enjoy SOI and SOE). I'm talking about the promotional decisions and live application of their songs.

You saw them live recently, right? When they played The Best Thing, did the crowd respond at all? At MSG, people were quiet for most of the song, hardly no one sang along with the chorus and it received the standard "the band tried courtesy clap" at the end. I was stunned that a lead single did nothing for the show (even your favorite song GOYB energized the crowds at the shows I went to on 360). The reasons, in part, was the decision to play the song full band acoustic with NO energy. If they played it full band electric, maybe it too would have fallen flat but This full band acoustic is a horrible decision because one of the very few things TBT has going for it is the energy and playfulness it has and the way they are playing it.....it has the energy of a dying turtle.
 
It's an arbitrary event around the point in time that I find the quality of the bands decisions have significantly declined.

If you want me to be specific...I would say 2/1/14 is the date when the very questionable decisions started. So we can call it the "post Super Bowl" or "post invisible" or whatever but I think that when McGuinness left is when a lot of ridiculous decisions began and for all we know.....him leaving may have been the first of those decisions (I personally am not convinced, not that it matters what I think, he wanted to leave on his own but even if he did, that seems to be a good starting point that led to two billionaires touching fingers awkwardly.)

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One thing to add to my above post, you are likely right that the same people are making the decisions but those people are making "different" decisions and that's obvious.

Also, I'm not talking about song quality because most people here would say shit went south in 2001(I also really enjoy SOI and SOE). I'm talking about the promotional decisions and live application of their songs.

You saw them live recently, right? When they played The Best Thing, did the crowd respond at all? At MSG, people were quiet for most of the song, hardly no one sang along with the chorus and it received the standard "the band tried courtesy clap" at the end. I was stunned that a lead single did nothing for the show (even your favorite song GOYB energized the crowds at the shows I went to on 360). The reasons, in part, was the decision to play the song full band acoustic with NO energy. If they played it full band electric, maybe it too would have fallen flat but This full band acoustic is a horrible decision because one of the very few things TBT has going for it is the energy and playfulness it has and the way they are playing it.....it has the energy of a dying turtle.
So just two main points...

1) they're business and marketing decisions since the end of 360 have been baffling. I'm the last person you need to debate that with, because I agree 100% and knock them consistently about this. However...

2) staging, visuals and set list design on tour are a creative decision, and a completely different and unrelated issue.

Alas, the underlying cause is the same. And it's not Guy Oseary.

The band have lost their way a little. They're struggling to find their way in their golden years. I can't necessarily blame them - they've always wanted to be huge, and entering a phase where that's no longer possible, for a band that defied the odds for so long, must be difficult to come to grips with.

They are still highly successful financially, and this tour will bring them oodles of dollars, and any other act would love to have their box office stats.

But the recent decisions on marketing and directing have hurt their legacy a bit. The insistence that they must still matter in the same way that the top pop and hip hop acts of the day matter is making them seem incredibly lame to most people under the age of 30, and just about everyone under the age of 20.

Maybe Paul McGuinness would have been a little more honest with them about these things if he had stayed on (and maybe that's why he retired). But these decisions are still ones being made not by anyone in management, and it's wrong to cast blame there. They're decisions made by a band who's having a difficult time stepping off the mantle.


Regarding lead singles not getting the same pop as they once did? Least of my concerns. That's a natural progression. Yes, a full band version may have gotten more juice, and placing it after the intense Acrobat was probably a bad choice... but I'd they had placed it in the first 4 songs and played it full band, the better reaction probably would have been more because of set list placement than the song itself.
 
Did McGuinness involve himself directly in creative decisions? Probably not. But it's safe to say that he was part of discussions made by the band for a lot of important decisions, and that includes things like single choices, album delays, the JT tour (and its timing), promotional appearances and performances, etc.

I find it hard to believe they'd be in the same place they are now if he hadn't stepped down.

So we can't blame Guy Oseary for the recent decisions, but we can argue that McGuinness would have advised them in different directions. So the result still adds up to inferior management, combined with the band's own terrible taste.
 
Did McGuinness involve himself directly in creative decisions? Probably not. But it's safe to say that he was part of discussions made by the band for a lot of important decisions, and that includes things like single choices, album delays, the JT tour (and its timing), promotional appearances and performances, etc.

I find it hard to believe they'd be in the same place they are now if he hadn't stepped down.

So we can't blame Guy Oseary for the recent decisions, but we can argue that McGuinness would have advised them in different directions. So the result still adds up to inferior management, combined with the band's own terrible taste.

The same Paul McGuinness who people around here used to blame for the band's poor decisions before he retired, because he was only interested in "hitz"?

The one referred to around these parts as McGuinne$$?

I can't argue that Paulie McG's word might have carried more weight than Guy's, but I think many have a much greater opinion of what U2 management does in regards to the band's creative decisions.

If you want to argue that Paul wouldn't have had them do the stupid start stop launches of both Innocence and experience? Ok... but this is the same manager that had stadiums booked on 97 before the album was finished.

I think we're blaming the band's piss poor decision making on management because it's easier than blaming the band themselves. This band is and always has been very hands on in business decisions, and the creative direction is 100% the band.

Nothing much would change if McGuinness were still around.
 
Who’s idea was it to use the “works 50% of the time” devil snap chat filter that looks like it comes from a free app?????

Find that fucker and you find the root cause to most/all these dumb decisions.
 
IMO, the show should begin with Blackout NOT INSIDE THE SCREEN, but on the stage where everyone can see them! Then Best Thing (full band electric version) should come right after. The 1-2 punch of the albums most upbeat rocker combined with their most recent, semi successful single would get things going pretty good. Then play I will follow, and the show could go on as usual. My only real gripes were the presentation of Blackout, and wasting Best Thing in the bathroom break slot. Also, the encore needs one rocker at the beginning.

Edit- yes, I realize I left out Lights of Home. Leave it out, and plug in Red Flag Day or Little Things elsewhere in the set.
 
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Edit- yes, I realize I left out Lights of Home. Leave it out, and plug in Red Flag Day or Little Things elsewhere in the set.



So I know I have been complaining a lot and sound like I belong on the “other side” of this forum but I have another grip....

LOH strings is a good version of the song(I like it more than the album cut) but in the live show the strings are canned and that just sucks. I mean it’s not atmospherics that are canned but one of/the most prominent aspects of the song. They can’t take a few strings players on tour with them for LOH and even use them in Blackout for the chorus (wow that would be cool) , LIB and a few other songs?

So, U2s live show starts off:

1-lip synced Bono only version of LIAWHL
2- 80% of Blackout the band is hidden and you are just watching pre-recorded images on a screen
3-LOH with the most prominent part of the song pre-recorded and playing over the performance


I balked at paying $350 per ticket and got what turned out to be very good seats in the 311 section at MSG for $112 and I am very happy I did because of the above + no streets, no with or without you(I love how it engages the crowd) and instead of Gloria I got the 2005 smash All Because of You(I know, that’s a Cosmo issue).

I don’t want to end on more negativity, so I will say that I was pleasantly surprised how great(yes, great) American Soul sounded....even with that fucking ridiculous bull horn......wait, I still ended negative. Ok, well, Love is Bigger sounded wonderful and is a beautiful live song!

Ok.....that is all.
 
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