LP15 - We're due for a break from the norm

[YBORCITY]

Just no “atm machine” and no “force quit and move to trash” and I’m good.

And no more "I Gotta Submarine and You Gotta Gasoline....." Talk about cringeworthy...

 

[womanfish]

You said you disagreed with my assessment that the last two albums were compromised by their chase of relevance, and then proceeded to point out all of the things they did on the last two albums that were done in pursuit of relevance

I never said the entire albums were bad - I said they were compromised by bad decisions that were made on the interest of trying to stay hip and cool with the kids.

LOL. yeah, i get your point. To me i'm thinking more musically, SOI was not in pursuit of pop relevance. SOE, somewhat, But yes, their decisions regarding first singles, release method, etc... definitely have been. Solid albums musically, marred by bad decisions publicly.

I just think the No Line was ALL of that. Horrible first single choice. and a batch of horrible, looking for chart, pop duds that sunk the whole damn thing.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

LOL. yeah, i get your point. To me i'm thinking more musically, SOI was not in pursuit of pop relevance. SOE, somewhat, But yes, their decisions regarding first singles, release method, etc... definitely have been. Solid albums musically, marred by bad decisions publicly.



I just think the No Line was ALL of that. Horrible first single choice. and a batch of horrible, looking for chart, pop duds that sunk the whole damn thing.

Innocence also bailed on an all Danger Mouse produced album to bring in Ryan Tedder - which is a move that screams of desperation.

Ryan Tedder's involvement with the band needs to die a horrible first death.

 

[womanfish]

Innocence also bailed on an all Danger Mouse produced album to bring in Ryan Tedder - which is a move that screams of desperation.

Ryan Tedder's involvement with the band needs to die a horrible first death.

Agreed. Although, i must say that IMO Every Breaking Wave was much improved. Their live performances of it prior were a meandering mess in comparison.
But he needs to GO. Would love to see a strictly Danger Mouse, Barlow and Thomas produced album. How Eno, Lanois and Lillywhite allowed the final product of No Line is mind boggling.

 

[mikal]

HTDAAB is the post-Pop album I tolerate the most, but the band's recent attempts to rawk do not bode well.

But really I don't care whether they decide to go borderline metal or softer than UF b-sides, I just want a coherent vision without a billion cooks spoiling the broth. I suspect that no matter what style or approach the band choose, I will enjoy it much more than I have enjoyed the last three albums if it is simply focused and not over-thought or over-produced.

Although our opinions on quality are completely different, yes to this. I would welcome their next album having more cohesiveness to it.

 

[Peter Parker]

There are so many great songs on HTDAA

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Agreed. Although, i must say that IMO Every Breaking Wave was much improved. Their live performances of it prior were a meandering mess in comparison.

But he needs to GO. Would love to see a strictly Danger Mouse, Barlow and Thomas produced album. How Eno, Lanois and Lillywhite allowed the final product of No Line is mind boggling.

Well all we heard was edge and Bono live. We never heard what it sounded like when produced by Burton.

 

[trevgreg]

For me, the “cohesiveness” argument has always been an illusion. There’s also the question of what cohesiveness means anyway? Unless someone’s album is truly bipolar in some ways, like laying down rap songs on top of old school country, then I think there’s a bit more flexibility for particular artists out there… especially in the pop-rock spectrum.

I sort of gained a different perspective on it when I started writing my own stuff in recent years too. For example, let’s say I sit down and write 12 songs over a course of a few months. If I’m like most people out there that do similar things, there’s no way I’m going to come out of it and just think “Okay, done! Ready to go!” For one, people that write their own songs are almost never completely happy with how their songs turn up. Something can always be better or improved, a vocal or guitar could have been better or did turn out better live, and so on. For me, that’s not so much “need to appeal to the kids” as it is just being a normal human being.

So what do most musicians do in those cases? Write more and more material until you come up with a group you’re somewhat to mostly happy with. And I’m sure if you’re a band that doesn’t operate on deadlines, this goes on as long as you feel it needs to (good for them, and maybe not so much for us, haha). And sometimes it goes on after you’ve mixed a bunch of the songs preparing for a release. Which, again, is not that uncommon.

That sort of gives me a different way of thinking to the, say, Danger Mouse situation than others on here. When I think of how they brought Tedder and others in, I don’t think there’s some amazing 12-song Danger Mouse only, “No Tedders Allowed” album out there… I think that they probably weren’t entirely happy with whatever they came up with before that. And without even hearing those tracks, I can’t really assume that there’s masterpieces lying in some Pro Tools files somewhere. Maybe some of those songs were better than the ones that resulted from some reshuffling? Maybe not. Or, more than likely, maybe it depends on who you ask in the process?

Combine that with all the little decisions you have to make in writing a single complete song anyway, and I think any ideas of albums sounding complete somehow are just going to depend on who it is and whether they like it or not. Writing a song is hard at times. And even if you have a vision for something, it’s going to change no matter what and might even go into a different direction when you’re deep in the process.

I’m not a huge OneRepublic fan, mostly since Tedder’s M.O. seems to be taking 3 or 4 of the E-B-C#m-A chords and rearranging them in different keys for just about all of his singles. But I don’t mind a few songs and, whatever people think, he seems to have a decent ear for melody. And like it or not, some people who are above 21 like his stuff today. Paul McCartney worked with him and, oddly enough, Brandon Flowers sought him out for The Killers solely for his work on Every Breaking Wave. And what do you know… I didn’t hate most of the stuff he did with U2 either. So go figure.

 

[trevgreg]

LOL. yeah, i get your point. To me i'm thinking more musically, SOI was not in pursuit of pop relevance. SOE, somewhat, But yes, their decisions regarding first singles, release method, etc... definitely have been. Solid albums musically, marred by bad decisions publicly.

I just think the No Line was ALL of that. Horrible first single choice. and a batch of horrible, looking for chart, pop duds that sunk the whole damn thing.

For me, the problem with the "middle 3" wasn't so much "pop" "guitar" or whatever as much as it was they just weren't very good songs in the first place. That to me was a bigger consideration than anything else.

Otherwise, I’d probably hate it if 10-12 songs sounded a lot like each other with very little difference. So I wouldn’t really desire anything along those lines. In terms of producers or gestation period, well respectfully, I think that’s more along us trying to read into what the background is based on the interviews we read online. For example, I liked SOI quite a bit and felt it fit plenty together. The band even said they tried to run a lyrical theme along a lot of it. I rarely, if ever, think about how it took them 4 years to record it, or what producers contributed to what and how that may have factored into things. I just like the songs I do at the end of the day and think “meh” for the ones I can do without.

Don't get me wrong, the other stuff is interesting when I do read about it. But if I get that worked up over who artists work with or how they do things, then maybe I’m reading too much into it in the first place? I get that’s why most of us do here (including me), but I don’t think many artists would have 100% approval from their fanbase on who gets to work with them anyway. That's mostly try I don't try to lose much sleep over it.

In terms of “hip and cool with the kids” like Headache said, we haven’t seen the hip hop beats or Timbaland collaborations over the years, so that’s never really been a factor imo. Trying to write songs that connect with a lot of people in general? That I can see. And even then, is there really one type of thing that fits for most people in general? That’s sort of why I have to laugh when people cringe at a guitar riff or a vocal hook in a new song. Not just for U2, but any other band out there. What are these acts supposed to do in the first place anyway? We’re talking about a band that’s primarily vocals, guitar, bass and drums… not a string quartet or Kraftwerk-style synth band.

For me, I just want to hear good songs. I have my own preferences on how things could sound from time to time, but I could care less if it’s a Les Paul through a Marshall amp or some weird MIDI programming. Just write a decent tune, you know? These days, if I come out liking just a few from an artist I like, I consider that a victory. Anything more than that is just a bonus, particularly when you’re at an age where you’re not as impressionable anymore.

 

[LemonMelon]

I can't get behind bashing NLOTH for having a handful of chart chasers when it's the last album of theirs with a majority of songs that didn't sound like they came from a U2 blueprint before being sterilized in a vat of bleach. If SOE had tracks like Moment of Surrender, Fez-Being Born and Cedars of Lebanon, I wouldn't be so hard on it.

 

[The_acrobat]

I just listened to NLOTH for the first time in ages yesterday. I can now finally admit it... I don’t like it. I tried for a long time. IMO the entire thing is a dud, save for MOS which I love. I don’t hate everything on it, but even the songs that interest me are somewhat boring.

The title track starts out hot n heavy but loses its erection before things get going.

Magnificent is the album standing there, stroking it, saying “gimme a minute, I can do this”. But it doesn’t work.

MOS is the album saying “let’s just cuddle for awhile”. By that point, it’s all over.

I can honestly say it’s my least favorite U2 album, even over October.

 

[lazarus]

Well all we heard was edge and Bono live. We never heard what it sounded like when produced by Burton.

That leaked earlier version with the more prominent electric guitar might be Burton’s. Certainly sounds less pop-glossed. And it’s definitely better than the album version, aside from a couple lyrics.

 

[Iggy Fizz]

MOS is the album saying “let’s just cuddle for awhile”. By that point, it’s all over.

to my ears MOS is an overwrought mess. Trying way to hard to be something epic. And not helped by B's horrible screeching.

and when you say 'by that point'.... MOS is track 3. You think the album is done at that point, when you just said you loved MOS? or am I misreading your comment?

 

[The_acrobat]

to my ears MOS is an overwrought mess. Trying way to hard to be something epic. And not helped by B's horrible screeching.

and when you say 'by that point'.... MOS is track 3. You think the album is done at that point, when you just said you loved MOS? or am I misreading your comment?

As an album, it really just Peters out and never gets going. I love the song MOS, but the album doesn’t take off in the first 2 songs enough to justify such a downbeat number in the #3 spot. Like the song, not its placement on the album.

GOYB is absolute shit. And SUC is worse. How anybody let those songs get written, let alone released, if beyond me.

That’s why I’m so grateful for SOI and SOE. Though they are not as great as JT or AB, they’re a breath of fresh air after the boring, bland NLOTH.

 

[CosmoKramer]

My opinion on NLOTH:

Magnificent is beautiful, MOS is very good, Breathe is a really awesome song hidden beneath too much production that makes it “just” a good song and Crazy Tonight is really good song that has a couple of dumb lyrics (sweet tooth) and the absurd/embarrassing Bono voice cracks/strains that bring it down a notch.

Ceaders is one of their worst songs of the millennium. I don’t like how Bono “sings” the lyrics (more like raspy spoken word) and I don’t like the lyrics. Nothing interesting going on with Edge, Larry or Adam.

Fez is interesting at times but ultimately falls very flat for me and I really dislike it

White as Snow should have been called “Boring as Shit”. I do like the “ode to joy” section but the mix/sound and Bono’s singing style put me off.

Unknown Caller is an odd one. The lyrics are dreadful and had they gone with more relatable lyrics like the ones I heard in the promo clip for the album, it would be a solid song. The live performance was terrible too and 100 snow globes couldn’t make it interesting.

Boots, NLOTH and Stand up are all very meh with Stand Up containing the single worst U2 lyric ever recorded. Boots live, save for the Grammy performance, was solid.

I don’t hate this album but for me it was a big disappointment.

It’s my least favorite post-Pop album.

 

[CosmoKramer]

As an album, it really just Peters out and never gets going.

This is something I agree with.

 

[Gonna Run 2 U]

Would be interested in hearing an album solely produced by Andy Barlow without any other cooks. Just a “balls to the wall” rock album with a clear vision, one producer, and the band locked in the studio for a solid 6 months and that’s it!

 

[lazarus]

If they weren't willing to give Danger Mouse the respect to stick with him, you think they're going to do the same for Andy Barlow?

Don't get your hopes up.

 

[The_acrobat]

If they weren't willing to give Danger Mouse the respect to stick with him, you think they're going to do the same for Andy Barlow?

Don't get your hopes up.

I mean, MAYBE the album they made with Danger Mouse really did kinda suck, and they needed to bring in all those different producers. But I can't imagine that. I've really enjoyed everything I've heard that DM produced, both from U2 and other artists. He was THE hot producer 5-10 years ago. I think he also fell victim to not being able to understand how U2 could be SO disorganized in the studio. He said he would always think a track was shaping up, and then they'd totally strip it down and rewrite it, and I think it drove him nuts a little bit.

 

[BEAL]

Obviously things will change a million times over by the time the album, if the album comes out.

Hearing Edge say that he wants a guitar based album because you don't hear guitars on the radio anymore basically means they haven't learnt anything. Leave the charts alone. They've tried three times now to get that "hit" and have failed. SOE did have a few songs perform decent, and I think that's the best they can really do without having another gimmick.

Get rid of Teder. He may have a ear for a hook, but it doesn't fit with how U2 perform as a band. U2 hooks were always fairly different than the other pop acts at the time.

I'd be content with one more album. Lock the band in the studio TOGETHER for a year. No more Edge is Malibu sending files to Barlow, who then forwards on to Bono to sing into his phone while in Africa, to send a file to Teder who sends the file back to Barlow who pulls up a recording of Larry and Adam playing from 2005.

Get Brian, Danny, and Flood. Record the music, make 3 billion demos of one song.....just don't bring in someone else to fuck around with it.

If the album turns out to be all RAWK, then so be it. But I think with those three producing, you'd get everyone out of their comfort zone and without the chasing of LOTS OF HITS, maybe they can end this journey with something magical.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Obviously things will change a million times over by the time the album, if the album comes out.

Hearing Edge say that he wants a guitar based album because you don't hear guitars on the radio anymore basically means they haven't learnt anything. Leave the charts alone. They've tried three times now to get that "hit" and have failed. SOE did have a few songs perform decent, and I think that's the best they can really do without having another gimmick.

Get rid of Teder. He may have a ear for a hook, but it doesn't fit with how U2 perform as a band. U2 hooks were always fairly different than the other pop acts at the time.

I'd be content with one more album. Lock the band in the studio TOGETHER for a year. No more Edge is Malibu sending files to Barlow, who then forwards on to Bono to sing into his phone while in Africa, to send a file to Teder who sends the file back to Barlow who pulls up a recording of Larry and Adam playing from 2005.

Get Brian, Danny, and Flood. Record the music, make 3 billion demos of one song.....just don't bring in someone else to fuck around with it.

If the album turns out to be all RAWK, then so be it. But I think with those three producing, you'd get everyone out of their comfort zone and without the chasing of LOTS OF HITS, maybe they can end this journey with something magical.

Did Edge really say that?

That's horrible. Fuck the radio.

 

[Mac_Fly]

Hearing Edge say that he wants a guitar based album because you don't hear guitars on the radio anymore . . .

You don't hear U2 on the radio much anymore either.

Not including classic rock stations of course.

Heard a block of U2 driving home last Friday: ISHFWILF, WOWY, Pride.

Hard to imagine U2 having a huge hit ever again.

I think Vertigo was the last of that.

 

[Mac_Fly]

I can't get behind bashing NLOTH for having a handful of chart chasers when it's the last album of theirs with a majority of songs that didn't sound like they came from a U2 blueprint before being sterilized in a vat of bleach. If SOE had tracks like Moment of Surrender, Fez-Being Born and Cedars of Lebanon, I wouldn't be so hard on it.

Maybe the desire to always be "the biggest band in the world (aka "chart chasers") is what drives them artistically and creatively.

The common assumption running through many of these posts is that if U2 weren't concerned with commercial success then they'd produce a masterpiece.

When the reality might be that if they weren't striving for the one thing they'd never have a chance at the other.

 

[DaveC]

Did Edge really say that?

That's horrible. Fuck the radio.

i mean, it wouldn't be that bad if there was any evidence whatsoever pointing to edge still being able to write a creative, semi-interesting guitar part these days.

 

[rennowba]

Nloth is being re released on vinyl next month

 

[BEAL]

i mean, it wouldn't be that bad if there was any evidence whatsoever pointing to edge still being able to write a creative, semi-interesting guitar part these days.

Agree.

AB and POP were the highest of the highs in regards to Edge (for me). And it used to be in live settings he'd find some new way to play an older song. BTBS probably best example.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

i mean, it wouldn't be that bad if there was any evidence whatsoever pointing to edge still being able to write a creative, semi-interesting guitar part these days.

U2 turning more guitar heavy is something I would welcome.

It's U2 continuing to care about what is or isn't on the radio and using that as their jumping off point that bothers me.

 

[womanfish]

U2 turning more guitar heavy is something I would welcome.

It's U2 continuing to care about what is or isn't on the radio and using that as their jumping off point that bothers me.

Exactly!! No one does guitar driven songs like them - or at least before. That's why Bomb felt stale to me. Guitar driven but a bit too bland mostly. Vertigo does rock.

Guitar driven, but creative, unique to them. please.

 

[Axver]

Hearing Edge say that he wants a guitar based album because you don't hear guitars on the radio anymore basically means they haven't learnt anything. Leave the charts alone.

You don't hear U2 on the radio much anymore either.

I'd go further: you don't hear the radio much any more.

 

[Mack_Again]

I'd go further: you don't hear the radio much any more.

is that why I dont see Howard Stern anymore