live downloads=varied setlists=good for all of us

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pghas

Babyface
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So if U2 does, in fact, adopt one of these download programs whether it be through itunes or music today or whomever, where you are able to download any and all of the concerts on the tour for a fee (usually around $10 per show mp3, $13 FLAC or high quality), I hope and expect that will mean what it did for fans of the other bands that have done this. At least for Metallica and Pearl Jam, anyway, but also for the jamband circuit, what ends up happening is that in order to make the download product more successful - to entice people to buy more than just one or two shows - bands start varying their setlists like crazy and then find they enjoy the variety of not playing the same show every night. I would love to see U2 do this. Metallica for example used to vary maybe 1 or 2 songs a night, now their setlists change up to 10-11 songs every night.

Maybe I'm wrong and bands don't make enough money off the download system to mix up their playlist or don't care, but I think I'm right about this. We could conceivably really see U2 probe the depths of their catalog on this tour, which would be nice (and also create insane ticket demand as people try to see them multiple times).
 
pghas said:
So if U2 does, in fact, adopt one of these download programs whether it be through itunes or music today or whomever, where you are able to download any and all of the concerts on the tour for a fee (usually around $10 per show mp3, $13 FLAC or high quality), I hope and expect that will mean what it did for fans of the other bands that have done this. At least for Metallica and Pearl Jam, anyway, but also for the jamband circuit, what ends up happening is that in order to make the download product more successful - to entice people to buy more than just one or two shows - bands start varying their setlists like crazy and then find they enjoy the variety of not playing the same show every night. I would love to see U2 do this. Metallica for example used to vary maybe 1 or 2 songs a night, now their setlists change up to 10-11 songs every night.

Maybe I'm wrong and bands don't make enough money off the download system to mix up their playlist or don't care, but I think I'm right about this. We could conceivably really see U2 probe the depths of their catalog on this tour, which would be nice (and also create insane ticket demand as people try to see them multiple times).
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I wouldn't count on varied set lists.
 
I would agree with Dalton...don't expect to see the setlist vary by more than a couple songs (similiar to Elevation). The market of fans who would buy more than one concert are going to buy them regardless - - the casual fan would tend to only buy one,maybe two regardless of the setlist.....at least that's my take on it. :wink:
 
I think it'd be great to see a bit more of a varied setlist. I for one will be going to at least two Philly shows, a NY show and possibly a Boston show, so the more the merrier!
 
I think that would be great. I doubt they will do some heavy set rotation. A more likely situtation might be that introduce a few new songs a night, then instead of showcasing the entire concert on iTunes they spotlight 9 or 10 songs. In those 9 or 10 songs they can have the new ones they added to the set that night and some of the better performances of the standards. John Mayer did this for his iTunes concerts he released.

Also, U2 tends to do snippets of covers during their concerts and edit them out because of liscensing when they issue an official concert release.
 
I really hope that we get COMPLETE concerts when they're offered for download. Phish did TONS of covers, and they seem to have no problem with rights etc. To have a complete document of a very special night is something to be treasured indeed.
 
you can never fully trust what the band says- b/c its usually just bono talking, but they have said they are toying with the idea of having a couple of a very different setlists. probably would be two different setlists that are rotated, but that is still much more than in the past. you never know, i would not be suprised if it is a little more varied than elevation.
 
We will not see varied set-lists for two reasons that I can see: one, because U2 really cannot drop popular songs from the rotation. Imagine if you were a long time fan that could not for various reasons attend many shows and U2 did not play WOWOY or One to play Wire and Rufugee. Fans would be upset.

Two, because U2 use so many backing tracks they have to be very concious about the timeing of their shows.
 
i think it's a terrible idea




didn't Bono himself say that he was OK with bootlegs as long as they weren't sold, just traded among friends?


plus, i doubt iTunes would be selling whole concerts, and there would be problems with snippets and covers. the band might even have to compromise the quality of their setlists to make the show more "marketable" (though we'll never really know for sure).



I say we keep U2 bootlegs underground, as we already do.








oh yeah, and on the varied setlist issue, i think Elevation was king of varied setlsts! I mean, we got A Sort of Homecoming, Discotheque, Out of Control, 11 O'Clock Tick Tock, WGRYWH, "We Love You" that they made up on the spot, and the return of The Fly! The band totally mixed up the setlist when they came to Notre Dame in October, their first show after 9-11. Hopefully the next tour will have setlists as good (or better) than Elevation.
 
discothequeLP said:
i think it's a terrible idea

oh yeah, and on the varied setlist issue, i think Elevation was king of varied setlsts! I mean, we got A Sort of Homecoming, Discotheque, Out of Control, 11 O'Clock Tick Tock, WGRYWH, "We Love You" that they made up on the spot, and the return of The Fly! The band totally mixed up the setlist when they came to Notre Dame in October, their first show after 9-11. Hopefully the next tour will have setlists as good (or better) than Elevation.
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Take a look at the setlists for a Pearl Jam Concert. That is varied.
 
discothequeLP said:
i think it's a terrible idea




didn't Bono himself say that he was OK with bootlegs as long as they weren't sold, just traded among friends?


plus, i doubt iTunes would be selling whole concerts, and there would be problems with snippets and covers. the band might even have to compromise the quality of their setlists to make the show more "marketable" (though we'll never really know for sure).



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WOW, that is alot of assumptions. Why in the hell is it a terrible idea to get soundboards of every single show??? How do you know they wont sell complete shows? From what I have heard its going to be all of the shows period, complete. Where did you get your info and what did you hear? There is no way in hell the band are going to change a setlist so its adequate for distribution. Again, where are you getting this info?

What it appears to me from what I have read on the net is alot of bootleg traders and tapers are upset with the idea because they lose their exclusitivity in the subject. Very few will care about audience recordings if there is a complete soundboard available of each show. Why ANY fan would have a problem with complete soundboards being available is mind boggling to me.

The only problem I can see with the concerts being available is the distribution method. They need to have several, not just I tunes. They need to have a FLAC download option as well as a CD purchase option. If they do that, it is a damn dream come true!

Regarding the actual topic of the thread. You are not going to see varied setlists like PJ or DMB do. I think there will be a bit more variation this tour but nothing drastic. It certainly not going to be effected by the concerts being available. The Who made every single one of theirs shows available for purchase and their setlists were about as static as it gets.
 
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This is not new. Pearl Jam and Pixies are doing it already.
Varied setlists would be a dream come true. Please make it happen, U2!
 
Varied setlists are a dream, that's about it. You will get variations in cities that have multiple shows and you will get maybe a couple of new songs being added as the tour progresses, but that's it.

I'm all for them releasing the soundboard recordings digitally. I do, however, believe that they should offer more than just an mp3 format, because you can most definitely hear the losses when you compare it to a lossless format. Additionally, what good is releasing, for example, a Canadian show on iTunes since we have no way of buying it there? There needs to be a better system and the elimination of this monopoly, IMO, if the distribution will be sensical at all.
 
arsenalfan said:
Agree on the lossless point. These must be released as FLACs or SHNs.
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Will someone please explain to me the differences between mp3 and these other versions?


Also, Arsenal fan - are you going to change your nic after todays performance? I heard that Paddy is gonna be on France's next olympic diving team. Can you confirm that rumor? :wink:
 
Dalton said:



Will someone please explain to me the differences between mp3 and these other versions?


Also, Arsenal fan - are you going to change your nic after todays performance? I heard that Paddy is gonna be on France's next olympic diving team. Can you confirm that rumor? :wink:
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Didn't see today's match, as I'm at work right now. I did listen, and suffice to say, I'm very worried right now.

As for mp3 and shn/flac, it's all based on compression:

from http://flac.sourceforge.net/

FLAC stands for Free Lossless Audio Codec. Grossly oversimplified, FLAC is similar to MP3, but lossless, meaning that audio is compressed in FLAC without any loss in quality. This is similar to how Zip works, except with FLAC you will get much better compression because it is designed specifically for audio, and you can play back compressed FLAC files in your favorite player (or your car or home stereo, see supported devices) just like you would an MP3 file.
 
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arsenalfan said:


Didn't see today's match, as I'm at work right now. I did listen, and suffice to say, I'm very worried right now.
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Shoulda let the long legged frenchman walk imo. his heart just isn't in it is seems.

I actually blame Wenger for most of this. he needs to help his team become stronger mentally.
 
Dalton said:



Shoulda let the long legged frenchman walk imo. his heart just isn't in it is seems.

I actually blame Wenger for most of this. he needs to help his team become stronger mentally.
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You know, that's my one beef with Wenger, and it's looming larger as of late.

BTW - Here's what I found on SHN:


from http://research.umbc.edu/~hamilton/shnfaq.html

What are SHNs?
Shorten (extension .shn) is an audio compression scheme written by Tony Robinson of SoftSound that can compact wav files without subtracting out any frequencies. It's "lossless"- everything in the original wav is there, so that full quality is maintained. For many traders of live music, Shorten files (shns) therefore have an undisputed advantage over "lossy" mp3-format files. A shn file made from a wav is quite a bit larger than the corresponding mp3, with a size perhaps ~50-70% of the orginal wav.

Although many people just download shns, keep in mind that these files can also be traded through the mail on disc very easily. The overview below focuses on working with shn files that are already created by others. Once you are familiar with that side of things, it will become obvious how to create shns sets on your own.

Ethical note: For historical reasons, much of the music available in Shorten format is of trade-friendly bands. To make it easier for all of us to continue to enjoy this hobby, please respect the artists. Please, no bootlegging (selling of trade-allowed music, stealing of commercial releases) through shns. Thanks!
 
Dalton said:
So does can I play those types of files with windows media or quicktime type programs or do I need something seperate.

btw what frequencies are lost w/ mp3s?
Click to expand...

What happens with FLAC and SHN is that you generally store your files using that format, either on you hard drive, or more effeciently on CD. There is software that will allow you to listen on you PC, but if you want to listen on your home stereo or in the car, you have to convert the files back to WAV. There are all sorts of converters available online.

Check out http://www.etree.org for more info.
 
Wow, I'm surprised some people are so down on the diea of varied setlists. The idea would be that U2 plays, say 20-25 songs in a night. Yeah, Pride, WOWY, One, Vertigo et al might be staples every night. But maybe instead of playing Stuck in a Moment, they play Party Girl, or they replace I Will Follow with Gloria, or switch of Bloody Sunday and NYD. One night might be really heavy on Elevation stuff, the next maybe they pull out Wire and Electric Co. Rotating the songs doesn't compromise the setlists, especially when your entire catalog has like NO bad songs. it keeps the band on their toes and fresh. The fact is that U2 has such a deep and good repertoire, the fact may be that if you only see them once, you might not see I Will Follow, or NYD. But there are so many other great songs. Maybe you'll get the first An Cat Dubh in 20 years or a ripping Gloria. That's the whole beauty of having such a great catalog. These guys should be using it.

Maybe that would mean the light show weren't as good. So what. Those 4 dudes canm just stand there and play for all I care.
 
I dont think its that we wouldnt love varied setlists or are down on the idea?? Its more of its just not going to happen. U2 is not a jam band and they have never really varied their setlists all that much. I think people are just indicating they dont see that changing just because they may be releasing the shows.

Is it possible they will mix it up? Sure, but I think its unlikely they will do anything very drastic. Of course I would love it if they did and I think most of us diehards would. But the odds are against it based on how U2 operates live.
 
Odds are that U2 will not rotate setlists. If you want major setlist rotation, go check out some Lovetown sets, and the reason they had so much rotation then is because they were playing cities for multiple nights (eight total in Sydney!). Elevation had pretty good rotation, but the most drastic rotation occurred in markets where they played three or four nights, which they may not be doing this time (35 dates according to PMC for the US first leg versus 50 on Elevation first leg).

I've decided I am just going to wait and see what U2 do. It's likely they will stick with the pattern of behaviour that has served them well for twenty-five years.
 
Blue Room said:
I dont think its that we wouldnt love varied setlists or are down on the idea?? Its more of its just not going to happen. U2 is not a jam band and they have never really varied their setlists all that much. I think people are just indicating they dont see that changing just because they may be releasing the shows.

Is it possible they will mix it up? Sure, but I think its unlikely they will do anything very drastic. Of course I would love it if they did and I think most of us diehards would. But the odds are against it based on how U2 operates live.
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Exactly. I would love for each night to be completely different with U2 playing every song in their catalogue over the course of the tour. I just don't think that will happen.
 
Loseless formats:

If U2 shows are released in a loseless format, it would likely be via Apples proprietary "Apple Loseless" Codec. It is essentially the same as FLAC in theory but is playable natively in iTunes. Once a track is ripped with it, CDs burned from it are CD quality. I am waiting for Apple to respond to people wanting a higher-quality download product by offering tracks via this method. At this time the codec does not have DRM built-in, although I can't see it being something difficult to do.

The codec was developed for 2 reasons thus far: 1. To give people with iPods a way to compess music files without loss of quality and 2: To serve as a secure file format to use with the Airport Express technology. When music is transferred to an airport express station from an iTunes client, it is sent in Apple Loseless format so no matter what format the file is encoded in (AAC/AIFF/MP3/etc) the file maintains whatever quality it was encoded with without having to build-in a decoder for each codec into the base station. Pretty nifty technology. Files compressed are about 4 times larger than a 128 AAC file.

Thanks to the Airport Express technology, I can now listen to my collection via my multi-room audio system by having the Airport Express line-out into my stereo, and thne controlling the volume/selection via my laptop. Definitely changed the way I listen to music for the better.

At some point I want to re-rip my entire CD collection using Apple Loseless onto one 250GB Firewire drive, and then have that hooked up an iMac to serve as a jukebox for the house with every CD accessible from that one access point. Then, with itunes file sharing, I can have access to any track in the collection on my laptop anywhere in the house. Very exciting times for music fans!
 
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As much as I like the idea of a varied setlist U2 arent like artists like Bruce Springsteen. Supposidly the guy picks 4 or 5 songs out of a book so every night is different but most of the set is the same. I mean 1 show he played something he hasnt since the late 70s.

If you look at all the Tours U2 has done they dont alternate a lot. I mean Joshua Tree tour had a few covers and a occasional playing of something like Spanish Eyes,Mothers Of The Disappeared, or Silver & Gold but I think this tour we'll have some special moments they just wont be on a nightly basis a lot of the songs we want Bono may not be able to handle . But I think there might be at least 1 surprise every night in some way
 
The sets don't alternate much because it takes Edge forever to learn or relearn a song..Once he has it, he is locked in but it can take him upwards of a couple weeks to get a song together. When U2 tried to add 40 back into the setlist on pre-elevation tour it was an absolute disaster, and that should be a easy song to relearn.

The heavy keyboard synchronization takes a heavy toll on the rigidness of the setlist as well.

Dont worry, in six months you will be feeling like U2 did a special gig because bono did "norwegian wood" in Bad instead of "ruby tuesday"
 
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