In October 2003 they had an album almost ready for release

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kevink

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I posted this entire article yesterday, but it got buried and I thought I'd repost this paragraph since I found it very interesting. It's an article by Neil McCormick that I copied from @u2.com.

[q]Edge and Bono came up with blueprints for half a dozen songs, which were then kicked around in jam sessions with their bandmates that spun off into another half-dozen blueprints. Those were added to and subtracted from for a year, until by last October they had an album almost ready for release. At which point they decided it lacked indefinable magic and embarked on another year of working over the material. "It's like cell division,"says Bono. "Our songs keep shedding their skin and a new song emerges."[/q]

I have a copy of the album credits that someone posted, and Chris Thomas is only mentioned in the credits for 4 songs. They are SYCMIOYO, LAPOE, OSC, and Yahweh. The first three say there was also "additional production", meaning the songs was reworked for the current version of the album. Only Yahweh seems to have survived from the Chris Thomas sessions, as he is the only producer mentioned for that song.

What I find really interesting is, is that if they had an ENTIRE album almost ready to go that was scrapped, and only 4 songs ended up surviving, then that means that there are at least 7-8 unheard U2 songs out there. It is very possible that some of these evolved into songs currently on the album, like Native Son evolved into Vertigo. Even though one song evolves into another, they are still different songs. I think it would be very interesting to hear these original songs, even if they were deemed unworthy by U2 themselves.

The question is, will these songs from the Thomas sessions come out as b-sides or will they forever be locked in the U2 vault, never to be heard?

edit: Another thing I find odd is that songs like ABOY and OOTS, which have been songs titles mentioned since beore Lillywhite took over, are not credited to Chris Thomas at all. Did they even work on these with Thomas?
 
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I remember reading that when lillywhite jumped on board they basically started over on a lot of songs. So even if they had been produced by Thomas before, once they re-recorded all the tracks for a song from scratch, Chris Thomas's name would no longer be associated with that song.
 
Hoodlem said:
I remember reading that when lillywhite jumped on board they basically started over on a lot of songs. So even if they had been produced by Thomas before, once they re-recorded all the tracks for a song from scratch, Chris Thomas's name would no longer be associated with that song.


That's very true and probably explains ABOY and OOTS. But I also imagine in the months with Lillywhite they created completely NEW songs that they hadn't started yet when Thomas was around. Meaning that there were indeed several songs that were scrapped, and we have not heard.
 
So maybe Bono wasn't exaggerating when he said they were working on a real rock & roll album. Maybe they were, and much of it got scrapped.
The story is that they just wore Chris Thomas out.
 
Here's another Bono quote:

[q]We had a fantastic producer, Chris Thomas, who was working with us ... and we were getting great guitar sounds, great things, but I think finally we must have driven him crazy. We wore ourselves out, if not him. We needed a new lease of life, so we brought in Steve Lillywhite [/q]

It sounds to me like he didn't "walk out" or "U2 fired him", my guess would be that it was a mutual split between U2 and Thomas. For whatever reason, they just didn't click.
 
Flying FuManchu said:
I hope for a quick, hard rockin' follow-up to HTDAAB akin to how Zooropa quickly followed Achtung Baby. :drool:

Remember how Zooropa was just supposed to be an EP, originally? I think an excellent idea for U2 to do now would be to release an EP of these scrapped songs. If they don't think these songs are worthy of being on an album, that's fine. But they could be released as an EP maybe in late 2005/early 2006 as the tour is winding down?
 
kevink said:


Remember how Zooropa was just supposed to be an EP, originally? I think an excellent idea for U2 to do now would be to release an EP of these scrapped songs. If they don't think these songs are worthy of being on an album, that's fine. But they could be released as an EP maybe in late 2005/early 2006 as the tour is winding down?

I like that idea :yes:

It's time for U2's White Light White Heat. I want some raw rock 'n roll, baby :D
 
Hoodlem said:
I remember reading that when lillywhite jumped on board they basically started over on a lot of songs. So even if they had been produced by Thomas before, once they re-recorded all the tracks for a song from scratch, Chris Thomas's name would no longer be associated with that song.

That's exactly right.

We all know they worked on FMJ/Native Son with Chris Thomas and that it is now known as Vertigo, and yet Thomas wasnt credited on the song Vertigo at all.

Really all 'production' means is recording. So if they re-recorded songs from scratch then Thomas wouldnt get credited even if he had worked on previous incarnations of songs.

I'd LOVE to see an in depth article on what happened in the studio during '03 up until the time Lillywhite came in. Maybe Thomas will shed some light on it sometime in the future.
 
IMO if U2 releases another stripped down ATYCLB/ HTDAAB type of album, the critics and a lot of fans who are still waiting for the experimental U2 will probably bash it or give it less then stellar reviews. Three albums of ATYCLB style U2 rock in a row is bound to have backlash. IF they had made a more rockin album but shelved it in favor of HTDAAB (which is as rockin as any prior U2 album before and not moreso) then the window is closing... A Zooropa like EP soon after HTDAAB would be a chance for them to do it.
 
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I actually think it would quite experimental for U2 should they release a Zooropa styled album that is primarily raw and heavy rock and roll. They've certainly not released an album like that.

I think another interesting approach would be to continue experimenting with the Love and Peace or Else bluesy style.

We can dream...
 
kevink said:

Only Yahweh seems to have survived from the Chris Thomas sessions, as he is the only producer mentioned for that song.


well, considering that's one of my favorites from this album, I wonder what the hell happened on the rest?
 
U2DMfan said:


Really all 'production' means is recording.


not exactly true. production can mean alot of things, from sitting in the control room saying "good take" after the recording is done, to contributing to the actaul tones and sounds coming from the instruments, to actually being a part of the songwriting process.
for example, daniel lanois may be sitting there while they're doing a rough take of a tune, and when it gets to the bridge, he may say "you know guys, I don't think those chords work so well. let's try something else". in which case the producer becomes a major part of the band itself. I'm sure it's happened many times before (just watch the joshua tree documetry) and has happened on this record as well.
some bands have this kind of relationship with a producer: the beatles, u2, etc.
some don't: led zeppelin, radiohead.
 
kevink said:


Remember how Zooropa was just supposed to be an EP, originally? I think an excellent idea for U2 to do now would be to release an EP of these scrapped songs. If they don't think these songs are worthy of being on an album, that's fine. But they could be released as an EP maybe in late 2005/early 2006 as the tour is winding down?

Either that, or seeing how they have been so close with Apple, they could either

A. Release them on The Complete U2

or

B. Release them as an internet-only EP on iTunes.

:shrug:
 
Murray said:


Either that, or seeing how they have been so close with Apple, they could either

A. Release them on The Complete U2

or

B. Release them as an internet-only EP on iTunes.

:shrug:

:up:

That's a good idea, too.
 
elfyx said:
I actually think it would quite experimental for U2 should they release a Zooropa styled album that is primarily raw and heavy rock and roll. They've certainly not released an album like that.

I think another interesting approach would be to continue experimenting with the Love and Peace or Else bluesy style.

We can dream...

Agreed on both counts...either (or a combination of the two) would be a viable creative path for U2 at this point..I've been saying recently that they haven't done a big rock album, so it would be new ground for U2 to do an album in that vein. If you think about it, the times they've done harder rocking songs, the results have usually been brilliant, so there is hope. :)
 
I rememer Lanois saying they were "at the tail end of recording" and Bono "we're in the home straight" and O'Herlihy said the tour was planned to start May or Sep 2004 depending on the release. On atu2.com, I read an interview with Adam back in 2002 where he said they had 10 "finished" songs that would end up somewhere because they're good.

So yes, my guess is the original plan was for this album to come out in late 2003 and go on tour in early 2004 - something must have happened with the Thomas sessions that prevented them. Probably didn't click.

They must have LOADS of leftover songs now, from ATYCLB sessions and this album.
 
'Production' doesn't necessarily mean 'recording'. It also involves structure building on the song. I'm sure credit is given where credit is due. It is however appropriate to think that a producer would only be credited if he acutally contributed something to the track.
 
In regards to production: there were times where Brian Eno was called U2's 'fifth member.' If you were simply to look at the influence of Brian Eno on U2's records...well, you'd never say production simply meant 'recording' again. :wink:
 
U2girl said:
On atu2.com, I read an interview with Adam back in 2002 where he said they had 10 "finished" songs that would end up somewhere because they're good.

I remember reading that too. I also remember reading sometime around the summer of 2003 that Bono said "All Because of You is finished and will be on the album". Obviously it wasn't "finished" because Lillywhite is now credited with producing that song and he hadn't even come on board yet in the summer of 2003, probably meaning they completely reworked it.
 
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