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Old 04-23-2002, 11:35 PM   #141
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Eh, its okay, Raf. Practically everyone these days seems to believe that all Americans are happy and healthy and wealthy, yada yada yada. I think its just that Americans dont WANT to believe that America could possibly have fatal flaws, serious chinks in its armor.
Of course my chances are better than if I lived in Africa....
But i just dont understand why Bono , as well as most Americans, feel that there are no needy people in America, and that its only Africans, and people in other such countries, who are in dire need of help. There is suffering in your own backyard, wherever you live.
Why do we need to put anyone first??? Why cant we help Africans, Americans, and anyone else who needs it at the same time???
The idea of helping the Africans first, and then others, is nothing short of ludicrous.
By the time we get them on their feet....the needy people elsewhere will all be dead. And so will America. If somehting isnt done NOW, America will become nothing less than a pitiful third world country itself. Its already happening. America is on a steady decline, and it will take Africas place if the naive dont wake up, look around, and do something about it.
I'd love to talk to Bono or the others about this. they are smart, and theyd understand.
Americans are very thick and its very hard to get this through to them. They just...never learn.
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Old 04-24-2002, 12:23 AM   #142
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America on a steady decline? I think not. The latest United Nations figures have the USA at #6 as far as standard of living in the world. This whole steady decline thing was put out in the late 80s. Of course, that did not happen, what happened was the fastest economic expansion in USA history. Over the past 10 years, both Crime and Poverty have gone down. Unemployment is only 5.6% currently. The natural rate of Unemployment is supposed to be 6%. The number of people living in Poverty in the USA is currently around 12% of the population. But Poverty defined in the USA is income of 8,000 dollars or less per year per person! Poverty in Africa is defined as less than 365 dollars a year per person.
Reducing poverty over seas is very important to the USA because nearly 20% of the USA's GDP(value of all goods and services per year in the USA) comes from Exports. Also, the USA imports lots of raw materials and natural resources. Peace, Stability and prosperity are very important to the USA worldwide. Poverty and instability creat war that can hurt US interest. There is nothing that is more expensive or a drain on resources than war. One way to prevent war is by being more activily engaged overseas both militarily, and economically. This is the 21st century, we live in an interdependent world.
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Old 04-24-2002, 02:03 AM   #143
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Originally posted by STING2:
America on a steady decline? I think not. The latest United Nations figures have the USA at #6 as far as standard of living in the world. This whole steady decline thing was put out in the late 80s. Of course, that did not happen, what happened was the fastest economic expansion in USA history. Over the past 10 years, both Crime and Poverty have gone down. Unemployment is only 5.6% currently. The natural rate of Unemployment is supposed to be 6%. The number of people living in Poverty in the USA is currently around 12% of the population. But Poverty defined in the USA is income of 8,000 dollars or less per year per person! Poverty in Africa is defined as less than 365 dollars a year per person.
Reducing poverty over seas is very important to the USA because nearly 20% of the USA's GDP(value of all goods and services per year in the USA) comes from Exports. Also, the USA imports lots of raw materials and natural resources. Peace, Stability and prosperity are very important to the USA worldwide. Poverty and instability creat war that can hurt US interest. There is nothing that is more expensive or a drain on resources than war. One way to prevent war is by being more activily engaged overseas both militarily, and economically. This is the 21st century, we live in an interdependent world.
Facts, numbers, or not... I think that was the most insensitive reply I have read. Tact? You have none. Perhaps you should try reading her previous replies in addition to the one you just replied to - if you haven't already.



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Old 04-24-2002, 02:55 AM   #144
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bono's American Wife:
My sister, according to government statistics, is living near or below the poverty level at $14,000 per year with one child. She own a car, eats out every day, has nice clothes, a place to live and money in the bank. Imagine how a family in third world county could live on $14,000 per year.
Well, I must say your sister would be middle class here...that amount would be R$ 2.800 per month, or 14 times the minimum salary in Brasil...definitely middle class. And she has only one child, much better than the average of our poors here. Can you see the difference? It is as big as an ocean. I myself earn R$ 42.000 per year, or US$ 17.500, and I have a good job, I have been working the last 21 years for a state-owned bank, I have a good education, I have health insurance for me and my kids, I have a car and an apartment (with a huge mortgage to tell you the truth)...I know I'm very, very fortunate, much more than lots of others citizens here. That's the reason why I pay monthly contributions to at least 3 charity institutions, plus Greenpeace, because I care.

I also know that any poor people in Brasil is still not as poor as those people in Africa, the ones that Bono is trying to help. I wholeheartedly believe that something can be done, and also that they are getting some good results. I know that Bono is right and I admire his tireless efforts even more nowadays.

[This message has been edited by follower (edited 04-23-2002).]
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Old 04-24-2002, 10:42 AM   #145
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Originally posted by Miss MacPhisto:
But i just dont understand why Bono , as well as most Americans, feel that there are no needy people in America, and that its only Africans, and people in other such countries, who are in dire need of help. There is suffering in your own backyard, wherever you live.

I think Africa problem could be more appealing, but you are right in that, I have posted that before that the important thing is to do something in our level and that there are many places where we can make a diference, could be our backyard, our neighbourhood, our country any place.

Quote:
Originally posted by Elvis:Facts, numbers, or not... I think that was the most insensitive reply I have read. Tact? You have none. Perhaps you should try reading her previous replies in addition to the one you just replied to - if you haven't already.
Sad but true, even numbers are needed, we sometimes seem to forget we are talking about human beings, and sometimes friends and close ones.


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Old 04-24-2002, 11:10 AM   #146
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Quote:
Originally posted by Elvis:
Facts, numbers, or not... I think that was the most insensitive reply I have read. Tact? You have none. Perhaps you should try reading her previous replies in addition to the one you just replied to - if you haven't already.

I have to disagree with you here, Elvis. I think STING2's post was very concise, not harsh or without tact.

He correctly stated the situation in the U.S. Our standard of living is so high, that a person is at "poverty" when they make $8K a year. Granted, this income is quite low, but hardly at the dollar a day level of those in other parts of the world.

STING2 didn't state that the U.S. should ignore its own to help others, nor do I feel this is implied by his words. Rather, STING2 simply showed that the U.S. is in a good position to offer more help to others than it has been. And this is quite true - the U.S. and Canada are rather stingy with their international generosity. But helping another does not mean that one has to ignore one's self to do so. The U.S. can afford to help both its own people as well as those abroad. And STING2's facts demonstrate this point quite well.

In truth, Elvis, if there is a person lacking just a bit of tact, it could be the "Anti-Bono" that started this whole thread...

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Old 04-24-2002, 05:28 PM   #147
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I'm sorry Elvis if you thought my response was insensitive. Perhaps my initial statement did not have tact. I should have said "I respectfully disagree with your comments on the decline of the USA. Here is what my opinion is on this." The rest though was simply my opinion and list of facts. I have seen far worse on this forum than "I think not". But I'll try to be more carefull in the future. I hope this helps and that no one was hurt.
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Old 04-24-2002, 08:09 PM   #148
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Its ok, ive heard much worse. But I didnt base my reply on stats or numbers. I based my reply on what i SEE, HEAR, and READ everyday. Just take a walk through most of the LA area, and you will see that it has become very third world.
Everyday, there are times when i cannot even believe that this is America. In fact, i feel that way more often than not. Not just because of the conditions and the people, but because of the way the government behaves torwards us. Its scary, it truly is.
And, anyone who doesnt believe me, i would be more than happy to give anyone a grand tour of LA and spend the day with them and show and tell them what its like. You will see for yourself, and youll second guess those statistics.
That said, i dont want to believe the US is on a decline. If anyone can actually PROVE me wrong, itd make my day. But itd have to be something more convincing than statistics.
Also, as I'm not saying that we shouldnt help Africa, or anyone else who needs and deserves our help. Its just...I see all these charities and groups and people who claim to care, and claim to be doing something to help, but are they REALLY???? I see no evidense. I'm just very skeptical at this point, tired of the futile attempts to help, and i really need to see some proof of progress.
When you have some, call me. *sigh*
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Old 04-24-2002, 08:24 PM   #149
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Quote:
Originally posted by rafmed:
Sad but true, even numbers are needed, we sometimes seem to forget we are talking about human beings, and sometimes friends and close ones.


Yeah,thats my point.
And yes, we have to help those in our own countries/cities/neighborhoods as well as the needy in other countries. Why cant we do both? Why neglect anybody? Charity begins at home.
People love to tell me, why do you help animals? People are more important, why do you put animals over people?
My response is always, I'm not putting one over the other, i'm interested in helping both.
There is room enough to help all who need it.
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