I feel that U2 has peaked musically...

[AtomicBono]

I actually love Wild Honey also. When they played it live I really took to that song, in fact my favorite live version was in the Austin concert, I have listened to it tons of times.

It was interesting to hear everyone criticizing the song when people who were trying to describe songs from the new album would say that one reminded them of Wild Honey and people would go "Oh no", and I would say to myself "That isn't necesarily bad".

Agreed. I wouldn't want an entire album of Wild Honey-like songs but obviously it's not gonna be considering Vertigo. Personally I just adore Wild Honey. I listened to ATYCLB last weekend after not listening to it for a long time and I remembered WHY I loved that album so much... it was the album that got me back into U2 after I drifted into a pop music/boyband phase... I somehow remember thinking that the first four songs were good then it got boring til New York, but I've found that perhaps my favourite part of the album are tracks 5-7 - Kite, In A Little While, Wild Honey.

As for NoControl, you've made the same point over and over, and you're not converting anyone. Go find something else to do.

 

[Tomer]

says evil homer

/useless comment i always wanted to make

 

[NoControl]

Yes, I guess that's why they went to SMALLER venues and played a SHORTER tour with LESS countries played. Selective replying - I said that because you did not reply to my comments before.

Yes and they made MORE money and charged MORE for their tickets from doing that.

 

[NoControl]

Btw, has anyone seen the movie Donnie Darko? Well, if you have and are a major fan, you know that Richard Kelly (director) wanted to use a U2 song in the movie. And guess what? He couldn't use it because when he went to ask for permission, U2 WANTED TOO MUCH MONEY FOR THE USE OF IT.

 

[UnforgettableLemon]

NC...

 

[TheWho4Life]

Re: NC...

Scary.

 

[TC2290]

Yes and they made MORE money and charged MORE for their tickets from doing that.

No Control, have you ever studied economics? Have you ever heard of market forces? To keep the prices artificially low would create a surge in demand and piss off all the U2 fans that wouldn't be able to get tickets. Not to mention the field day the scalpers would have. U2 would have to play 6 or more indoor shows in every city!!!! Also with high staff and production costs (Especially with U2!!) and promoter's fees those megabucks gate receipts start to slowly disappear.

I think that U2 have invested in their fans hugely with the likes of ZooTV and POPmart which cost ludicrous amounts of money and ate virtually all the profits.

Again, no-one is forcing you to see U2, if you think it's too expensive, fine, don't go. But to slag them off I think is verging on the pointless.

 

[feelingdizzy]

How can anyone say that U2 has peaked when we haven't even heard the new album yet?

 

[NoControl]

No Control, have you ever studied economics? Have you ever heard of market forces? To keep the prices artificially low would create a surge in demand and piss off all the U2 fans that wouldn't be able to get tickets. Not to mention the field day the scalpers would have. U2 would have to play 6 or more indoor shows in every city!!!! Also with high staff and production costs (Especially with U2!!) and promoter's fees those megabucks gate receipts start to slowly disappear.

Have you? It wouldn't piss off U2 fans at all, as U2 don't have to play 6 indoor shows in one major city. They'd do a Stadium gig instead. And hence the demand would be met. The Elevation tour was their highest grossing tour ever but was their lowest attended ever since 1987. And Michael Cohl guaranteed them $100 million for it. Do you know who he is? Didn't think so. Get your facts straight. Profits! Profits! Profits!

Originally posted by TC2290 I think that U2 have invested in their fans hugely with the likes of ZooTV and POPmart which cost ludicrous amounts of money and ate virtually all the profits.

Well, what you think and what you obviously know are two different things. U2 earnings were 30 million from the Zoo TV and over 100 million from the PopMart tour. That's hardly eating their profits.

Originally posted by TC2290 But to slag them off I think is verging on the pointless.

And thinking that you know what you're talking about is too.

 

[Flying FuManchu]

I just think if nocontrol wants to hear ambient country punk with some prog influences... he shouldn't expect it of U2's new album. I'm even wondering if being retrogressive is a bad thing.

I also think the ticket prices still sort of suck but don't begrudge U2 for doing it and they have done things to offset the prices.

I think nocontrol got ripped off if he bought a $60 U2 t-shirt, but then I don't remember Elevation T-shirts being priced that high so he must have gotten it through a scalper.

I thinks its a shame that he has to insult the Edge too given Edge's respnse was fair and in good fun. How was it an insult? He's basically calling U2 greedy whores and questioning their own inner workings/ thoughts/ their motives. nocontrol made some points that I agree with but he's acting a little much and not answering back on responses adequately enough.

With that said, his posts are anice change of pace.

 

[TC2290]

Yeah, NoControl's arguments kind of fall down as soon as logic and sense is applied.

Just noticed there is some great synths going on in Vertigo in the last chorus.

Lovely stuff!!

 

[NoControl]

I also think the ticket prices still sort of suck but don't begrudge U2 for doing it and they have done things to offset the prices.

I don't agree.

Originally posted by Flying FuManchu I think nocontrol got ripped off if he bought a $60 U2 t-shirt, but then I don't remember Elevation T-shirts being priced that high so he must have gotten it through a scalper.

Some t-shirts were $60 at the Elevation tour merchandise stand.

Originally posted by Flying FuManchu I thinks its a shame that he has to insult the Edge too given Edge's respnse was fair and in good fun. How was it an insult? He's basically calling U2 greedy whores and questioning their own inner workings/ thoughts/ their motives. nocontrol made some points that I agree with but he's acting a little much and not answering back on responses adequately enough.

I've answered just about everyone's questions. And I didn't insult him. It's being realistic about the situation. And primarily what I said is what I've told you and he knows exactly what I'm talking about.

 

[mofo82]

Now, however, U2 are so firmly committed to remaining a popular act that they can try new things as long as it's not too risky and is still easy to swallow by the masses. Lemon was risky. Mofo was risky. Vertigo, while a fun romping rock song, isn't risky.

Was 'Discotheque' risky? I wouldnt say so- no more riskier than 'Vertigo', but it was different, like 'Vertigo'. the reason i bring this up is because 'Lemon' and 'Mofo' were not the initial singles off their respective albums. Who would've guessed a song like 'Mofo' would be on Pop when 'Disco' was released. First singles typically seek attention and commercial appeal to jump start sales.

True, the band may be making songs that aren't so surreal and outstandingly different, but I hold out hope that there will be songs similar to 'Mofo' and 'Lemon' on this album. but if they didn't make it as the first releases on Zooropa and Pop, why would a similar song be the first release on 'Atomic Bomb'? to pass judgement on the album based on the first single alone, having not heard all of the tracks is a little premature.

 

[TC2290]

Listen NoControl, I think it was even you that said they only made 5 million profit on the ZooTV tour and the rest from T-shirt sales?!?!?!

That works out 1 million dollars each for 2 years work on the touring front. Not a lot for global superstars.

They didn't WANT to play stadiums on Elevation as they'd done it for the last decade, they weren't being evil and curtailing supply to bump up ticket prices.

The fact is U2 Corporation makes fucking money and lots of it, I wish them all the luck in the world, they've earned it through talent and years of hard work. They are not a charity and you are talking as if you've just noticed this fact and you don't like it. which I find strange.

The thing is you have a problem with them making money, they are not doing anything wrong and it suggests you may have a problem with bands practising capitalism when it doesn't suit your wallet.

 

[NoControl]

Listen NoControl, I think it was even you that said they only made 5 million profit on the ZooTV tour and the rest from T-shirt sales?!?!?!

Yes, I said that. But overall it's 30 million.

Originally posted by TC2290 That works out 1 million dollars each for 2 years work on the touring front. Not a lot for global superstars.

30 million's not a lot?!

Originally posted by TC2290 They didn't WANT to play stadiums on Elevation as they'd done it for the last decade, they weren't being evil and curtailing supply to bump up ticket prices.

They COULDN'T play stadiums in most North American markets with those prices.

Originally posted by TC2290 The fact is U2 Corporation makes fucking money and lots of it, I wish them all the luck in the world, they've earned it through talent and years of hard work. They are not a charity and you are talking as if you've just noticed this fact and you don't like it. which I find strange.

The thing is you have a problem with them making money, they are not doing anything wrong and it suggests you may have a problem with bands practising capitalism when it doesn't suit your wallet.

I don't have a problem with anyone making a profit, unless they're greedy. But there's a difference between doing your job and being greedy. If you think it just doesn't suit my wallet, you're totally off the mark.

 

[indigo tree]

Wow, this thread just never gets old, does it?

 

[allkub]

MAN...........

Perhaps U2 have reached their peak. But It's almost like some of you won't be happy until they release a totally crap album so u can say........See I Told Ya !!!!!

It also seems to me that some of you on here have first hand knowledge on what are the driving forces behind their music and what it is that inspires them to make the musical gestures that they do. You can be guaranteed when they release The Atomic Bomb...(How to blah blah).......that some fucker on here is gonna say.........It's TOO SAFE...........TRYIN TO BE COOL.........NOT ROCKIN ENOUGH........TOO RETRO............NOT ANOTHER MASTERPIECE!!!!! :crazy

To me this band really has very little to prove. They've done it all and sold the t-shirts!!!

I hope to god this next album is going to thrill and awe and inspire me like Achtung Baby..........Zooropa...........Pop............and Unforgettable Fire did.
I've got nothing but respect for this band. They've managed to appeal to almost all musical tastes and fans at some point in their career. There are those who would like them to remain experimental forever. There are those who would like them to make The Joshua Trees Volumes 2 3 and 4. There are those who want them to have a Number 1 album again at any cost. I'd just like to see them make another great album..........Be it popular.......Be it Rock........Be it alternative and experimental.........but fuck let's just let it be.

So they're over 40 and not gettin any younger........which in the music world is such a sin. So maybe Bono's gonna break a hip while tryin some new move on stage next year. But I can't think of any other - past it's peak - band on the planet that has the world waiting with bated breath and in such anticipation of their next album release. So they must be doin something right!!!!!!!

I bless you all with my love (Apologies for the ramblings).

Peace

Slan agus Bolllox

 

[ramblin rose]

So they're over 40 and not gettin any younger........which in the music world is such a sin. So maybe Bono's gonna break a hip while tryin some new move on stage next year. But I can't think of any other - past it's peak - band on the planet that has the world waiting with bated breath and in such anticipation of their next album release. So they must be doin something right!!!!!!!

I bless you all with my love (Apologies for the ramblings).

Peace

Slan agus Bolllox

God Bless You.

 

[Tintin]

Retrogressive?
I fear that the Edge may have cursed me retroactively, because I was born naked. Does this mean that I don't like the new album?
Maybe Edge still busts out his pirate eye patch and terrorizes Bono by running around and saying, "Aye, I'll throo thee dreaded curse of dee Hedge on ye yet! Mark me words."

 

[AtomicBono]

Retrogressive?
I fear that the Edge may have cursed me retroactively, because I was born naked. Does this mean that I don't like the new album?
Maybe Edge still busts out his pirate eye patch and terrorizes Bono by running around and saying, "Aye, I'll throo thee dreaded curse of dee Hedge on ye yet! Mark me words."

oh that's great...I can soooo see that. Hey, could be a new gimmick for the tour Y'know Edge's comment is a great way to sell tickets...it could be like "Buy tickets for the tour or else The Edge will curse you and all your children will be born completely naked!"

Oh, and amen to everything Bolllox said. I agree 512%.

 

[TC2290]

But there's a difference between doing your job and being greedy.

Yeah but WHAT A "JOB"!!!

 

[Blue Room]

Ok No Control, what are your musical credentials I'm curious?

You have some knowledge of the music industry but when confronted with figures and facts you glaze right over them and go back to the gross figures?? So if X tour grosses 40 million, but the band earns 1 million each from X tour. It doesnt matter, because it grossed 40 million?? How does that make it greedy? Maybe I just dont understand your point. I guess i dont really want to because I dont agree with your overall opinion.

A couple of other points. SOME tickets on Elevation were expensive. BUT $50 to be in the heart is a very good price and U2 made those tickets available to fans. If you were willing to camp out all day you could be a few feet from the band for $50. Thats pretty cheap by todays standards. Also, the T shirt price thing. Yeah, there was ONE t shirt that was near $60 (and I'm assuming you are talking Canadian as you are from Vancouver) the U.S. rate on it was $45. It was a hooded long sleeve high quality shirt. But dont make it sound like they were all that price. The "normal" concert T shirts were the standard $30 charged by just about every single act that tours today.

I just find the whole premise of this thread funny. U2 dont have it anymore based on ONE song you have heard. Basically you are dismissing the rest of the album without hearing it. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but how can you have one on it when you havent heard it?? Just amazing.

 

[James U2]

And after Pop, exactly how much further was U2 supposed to go? Short of actually making a techno record, I don't think the boundaries could have been stretched any more. I think that for a band like U2, retracing your steps is just about the most innovative thing that you can do. It's not what people expect and it's certainly not easy to reharness an old sound and still have it feel fresh. Just ask Green Day, Blink 182 and REM. (hey, i like rem, too, but let's be honest, how many times have we gotten the same album in a row, now?)

james

 

[NoControl]

Originally posted by Blue Room You have some knowledge of the music industry but when confronted with figures and facts you glaze right over them and go back to the gross figures?? So if X tour grosses 40 million, but the band earns 1 million each from X tour. It doesnt matter, because it grossed 40 million?? How does that make it greedy? Maybe I just dont understand your point.

That's not what I'm saying. The 30 million net they made from Zoo TV tour and the 100 million gross (not sure about the net figure, probably 50-60 million) they made from the PopMart tour, had afforable prices. But continuing with their consistently lower attendance in just about each and every market since the Zoo TV tour, the majority of the Elevation's tour ticket prices weren't anywhere near affordable, like I've gone over. That clearly makes it greedy.

Originally posted by Blue Room A couple of other points. SOME tickets on Elevation were expensive.

Most were.

Originally posted by Blue Room BUT $50 to be in the heart is a very good price and U2 made those tickets available to fans. If you were willing to camp out all day you could be a few feet from the band for $50. Thats pretty cheap by todays standards.

Agreed.

Originally posted by Blue Room Also, the T shirt price thing. Yeah, there was ONE t shirt that was near $60 (and I'm assuming you are talking Canadian as you are from Vancouver) the U.S. rate on it was $45. It was a hooded long sleeve high quality shirt. But dont make it sound like they were all that price. The "normal" concert T shirts were the standard $30 charged by just about every single act that tours today.

Not true. And even if most acts charged that much for a t-shirt it doesn't mean it should cost that much. Merchandise was higher than that overall. And I'm positive at least one of the items was a $60 t-shirt. And yes, it's a Canadian figure for merchandise.

Originally posted by Blue Room I just find the whole premise of this thread funny. U2 dont have it anymore based on ONE song you have heard. Basically you are dismissing the rest of the album without hearing it. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but how can you have one on it when you havent heard it?? Just amazing. [/B]

What's amazing is that it's not just about that. It's about a number of things that have culminated through this thread. I've actual held off for 3-4 years speaking my mind on how I feel. But Vertigo pushed my over "The Edge", so to speak. I don't want to say these things about U2, but I can see the forest through the trees. And if you've read the entire thread, you'll know why I know how the album is basically going to sound like.

Vertigo has an almost identical drum rhythm to Beautiful Day in it's chorus, clearly ripping it off. And basically the only difference musically, is that The Edge's guitars are moved up in the mix. His riff is derivative as hell and the half steps in the second half of the last measure before repeating the phrase and the choruses and bridge is possibly the worst I've ever heard by him. Bono's vocals are protooled to death and if he's going to sing live, he'd better take some singing lessons. He's lost his falsetto big time among othe things, including his depth vocally. No wonder it took so long to make this, it's not good at all. Talk about formuliac dribble. U2 was over by 2000.

 

[A_Wanderer]

And yet your still here
/this is a kindhearted joke, differing opinions are a GOOD thing.

 

[NoControl]

And after Pop, exactly how much further was U2 supposed to go? Short of actually making a techno record, I don't think the boundaries could have been stretched any more. I think that for a band like U2, retracing your steps is just about the most innovative thing that you can do. It's not what people expect and it's certainly not easy to reharness an old sound and still have it feel fresh. Just ask Green Day, Blink 182 and REM. (hey, i like rem, too, but let's be honest, how many times have we gotten the same album in a row, now?)

james

Further, as they always have. They also could've learnt to play their instruments better, as they're not techincally great musicians. They could've done many things. Music is limitless when you think about it.

Retracing your own steps is not innovative. GD, Blink 182 and REM are perfect examples and are archtypical of formulaic music with their genres of music. And now U2 has joined them...

 

[ramblin rose]

What exactly is the point of all this?

 

[ShellBeThere]

I *loved* what u2ulysses had to say pages ago but can't bring myself to slog thru this stuff to get to it...

and The Edge was just all poise and lovely in reply o' course...

I love free speech and all, but this is just getting silly, no?

NoControl's style is really bullying, and he's trying to somehow convince us his opinion on aesthetic and moral really judgements are the Word, and you know that bullying feeds off response so let's do like Edge and try to end it...

peace and love and cheers to all!

 

[bonosloveslave]

I think we have beaten this to death.