HTDAAB's Biggest Downfall.....

[jick]

I thought I owned the patent to the word "Downfall" on subject headings on this forum.

I do agree that COBL would be much better with louder drums in the mix. LAPOE takes too long before it states, and I already get to fall asleep before the drums finally kick in. There are others, but I'd rather not mention them in depth or be accused of being a nitpicker.

Cheers,

J

 

[namkcuR]

I thought I owned the patent to the word "Downfall" on subject headings on this forum.

I do agree that COBL would be much better with louder drums in the mix. LAPOE takes too long before it states, and I already get to fall asleep before the drums finally kick in. There are others, but I'd rather not mention them in depth or be accused of being a nitpicker.

Cheers,

J

But that long bass/drum intro to LAPOE is brilliant!

Oh, and it would be a copyright you would own(you don't own it though )

A copyright is for something written
A patent is for an invention/design
A trademark is for a symbol

 

[jay canseco]

Most of the albums I've heard in the last several years are overcompressed and clip on playback. I can see a day when "lossless" mastering will be a selling point to special edition cd's.

I think that artists are afraid of losing digital copies of their music to internet piracy and are therefore currently realeasing subpar editions of their cd's. In later years, when copy protection becomes unbreakable, remasted albums will be released with higher quality.

The 'loudness race' is also a big factor.

 

[cmb737]

As an audio professional, I choose to look at the production of each album as a statement by the band as intentional as the actual melodies and lyrics.

Most times, that is the hardest part.

I don't think anything on this album happened accidentally, everything you hear production wise was done for a feeling or on purpse.

No one hires Steve Lillywhite and Flood to put out a poorly produced album. It is meant to be that way. (and by that I don't think it is poorly done, I think it is a moment...a 3.5 year moment captured)

*of course this argument doesn't hold true to albums that are severly limited by time constraints.*

 

[cmb737]

I can see a day when "lossless" mastering will be a selling point to special edition cd's.

I think that artists are afraid of losing digital copies of their music to internet piracy and are therefore currently realeasing subpar editions of their cd's. In later years, when copy protection becomes unbreakable, remasted albums will be released with higher quality.

Yes U2 records at 24 bit/192 kHz but the very nature of audio production is lossless, so I am confused about what you mean by lossless mastering. Mastering is part of the the process of converting to CD Redbook (more accurately making it sound good at Redbook size) to 16 bit/44.1 kHz. Dithering is done after mastering, but lossless mastering is a bit of an oxymoron. Mastering is done to make the master recording sound the best in its delivered format, hence the remastering movement to make albums recorded on 2 inch that were mixed for vinyl sound good on CD. If an audio program is going to be released in 5.1 Super Audio, it will be mastered to sound best in 5.1 Super Audio.

Generally the debate about lossy/lossless audio deals with compression, not production.

Higher quality recordings will be released when high quality media becomes common place. The CD is a dinosaur. 24 bit/192 kHz is bliss. Huge, but bliss.

 

[Aardvark747]

I do agree that COBL would be much better with louder drums in the mix. LAPOE takes too long before it states, and I already get to fall asleep before the drums finally kick in.

I love the wait at the start of LAPOE...brilliant!

 

[U2girl]

....has nothing to do with the music. Rather, it's to do with the production.

OOTS - this song has some GORGEOUS string arrangements and keyboard arrangements going on but you can't hear them most of the time because the production has resulted in Bono and Larry overpowering the rest. One of the best songs on the record but could've been even better.

COBL - I think the production problems with this one have already been covered to death.

Crumbs - it's just a little too loud. They should have let that acoustic guitar, the one that plays at the beginning of the song, shine through on the rest of the song. Basically it just should have been scaled down a bit. Otherwise a great song.

Those are the biggies, I think. This might be my single biggest complaint about an otherwise very good record.

I think Larry is somewhat drowned out on this album, actually.

With City..., they could have simply had those beautiful piano notes, without the keyboard overkill.

Also I think the "siren" sound in Crumbs melody could be done without.

Still, I enjoy the album and didn't start skipping any songs yet.

 

[chucky28]

To each his own. And stop using the same two lyrics in every AB arguement you make.

Very well put namKcuR. Axver, maybe we do worship Achtung baby (which is their best album by far), but you do worship the Lovetown Tour (and some prestation of One Tree Hill) which is VERY redundant and annoying as well. Think about it.

 

[jay canseco]

Sorry, I was being a bit sarcastic
I only meant that since albums are currently overcompressed to the point of distortions on playback, that I hope the master recordings are being kept somewhere in a better state. Lossless mastering was just a joking reference to how it might be marketed. Technically false advertising never stopped anyone.

 

[babyman]

....has nothing to do with the music. Rather, it's to do with the production.

OOTS - this song has some GORGEOUS string arrangements and keyboard arrangements going on but you can't hear them most of the time because the production has resulted in Bono and Larry overpowering the rest. One of the best songs on the record but could've been even better.

COBL - I think the production problems with this one have already been covered to death.

Crumbs - it's just a little too loud. They should have let that acoustic guitar, the one that plays at the beginning of the song, shine through on the rest of the song. Basically it just should have been scaled down a bit. Otherwise a great song.

Those are the biggies, I think. This might be my single biggest complaint about an otherwise very good record. [/QUOTE


you know what? i agree with all you've said, these 3songs could have been better. especially city of blinding lights, i love this song, but imagine guitar instead of keyboard after the very first arpeggio, i think this song could have been more rock and roll.

 

[ponkine]

Re: Re: HTDAAB's Biggest Downfall.....

Hola amigos

I think every single song on the album could have been ten times better.

Vertigo... do you remember the remix ? it has many interesting things, like Bono´s voice sound, programming, dark production, etc. The "master" version is just the typical radio-hit ( Hit and Miss ) 3 minutes long song. Song scheme is almost exactly as Elevation, I mean: Intro, first verse with no guitar, Chorus will full instruments, riff, second verse as the first one - Vertigo added a few guitar, neverthless, Chorus as the first one, riff, brigde, stop for a second, Chorus and riff towards the end. Production is just terrible, almost no drums, dry and flat Bono´s voice sound,

Miracle Drug... too much "classic" U2, I mean, melodies, guitars, arrangements, production, etc. That´s a kind of song that seems to be heared 100 times before releasing it, because it´s so "classic" U2. They should have been original and risky instead

Sometimes... I really don´t know what to say. Simply the worst and most overrated U2 ballad ever. Every little thing on this song fails on every level. Song structure is the typical "epic" radio hit number, I mean, a calm first part, then a silly "crescendo" and finally the last part with full sissie strings and all that. The last part, when Bono "sings" - Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiing, you're the reasoooooon - is simply the worst part of a U2 song I´ve ever heard. I truly agree with those ones that say this song seems to be a Celine Dion number. This one could have been re-worked as a whole.

Love And Peace... filler. Wasn´t a bad idea, at least, the most "experimental" - nowhere near experimental songs as Lemon, Mofo or Numb - song of the album, but it lacks originality due the same used production, I mean, ATYCLB style. Bono sound the same, guitars sound the same, etc. The only "different" thing are Larry´s drums

City Of Blinding Lights... best song of the whole album. The only one song well produced and constructed.

All Because Of You... this song should have been a B-side. It doesn´t deserve to be on an album, it´s so lame, basic, predictable, etc. As many fans pointed out, it´s like a Rattle & Hum rip off. They tried to "rock" with this song but they failed. The whole song seems to be a pathetic attempt at late 80´s U2, playing out of ideas and singing with the flu. ... and production is, yet again, the same.

A Man And A Woman... from this point the album goes extremely downhill. Tracklisting wasn´t well chosen. They put all the "rock" numbers on the A Side, filling the B side with their most boring songs ever. Yet again, production tried to catch an "emotional" Bono´s voice, that´s mean, completely rough, dry, raspy and having smoking and drinking all weekend as he did on In A Little While. Exactly the same sound. Another B-side song, filler.

Crumbs For Your Table... too much ATYCLB again The album really goes downhill at this point. Nothing new, nothing fresh, all recycled and (ab) used. This song had potential, really

One Step Closer... what´s the point with this song ? is this a song ?. Another filler number as Grace, in the same vein as ATYCLB once again.

Original Of The Species... if you want to realise what does a truly wrong production means, hear this song. Strings and all that cheesy stuff are just annoying as hell. For worse, this song features worst Bono´s performance ever: "DOO DOO DOO DOO..." Without all those strings, stupid "epic" production and editing out those crappy "DOO DOO DOO DOO" the song could have been far better, really. The song starts good ( 0:00 - 0:31 ) but then... oh boy, a shame

Yahweh... Don´t get me wrong, melodies are truly great, really... but Bono´s singing is just terrible. I really love the intro, awesome. The song isn´t as bad as the B-side, but when Bono sings "Yahweh" things go down. He just spoil the whole song by singing in such weak way. Production isn´t that bad ( at last ).

Overall, IMO this is a truly mediocre unfinished album, it lacks whole originality and innovation. Playing it safe once again. Some songs had potential, but they decided to go with another ATYCLB release instead of something brand new. I really hope the next one will be 100% different than this annoying commercial vein.

Cheers

 

[Neenie]

^^Was this a joke? Every song? Sounds like your making a mock up of the maddox review. If you were it wasn’t funny…

 

[Sleep Over Jack]

Re: Re: Re: HTDAAB's Biggest Downfall.....

Hola amigos

I think every single song on the album could have been ten times better.

Vertigo... do you remember the remix ? it has many interesting things, like Bono´s voice sound, programming, dark production, etc. The "master" version is just the typical radio-hit ( Hit and Miss ) 3 minutes long song. Song scheme is almost exactly as Elevation, I mean: Intro, first verse with no guitar, Chorus will full instruments, riff, second verse as the first one - Vertigo added a few guitar, neverthless, Chorus as the first one, riff, brigde, stop for a second, Chorus and riff towards the end. Production is just terrible, almost no drums, dry and flat Bono´s voice sound,

Miracle Drug... too much "classic" U2, I mean, melodies, guitars, arrangements, production, etc. That´s a kind of song that seems to be heared 100 times before releasing it, because it´s so "classic" U2. They should have been original and risky instead

Sometimes... I really don´t know what to say. Simply the worst and most overrated U2 ballad ever. Every little thing on this song fails on every level. Song structure is the typical "epic" radio hit number, I mean, a calm first part, then a silly "crescendo" and finally the last part with full sissie strings and all that. The last part, when Bono "sings" - Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiing, you're the reasoooooon - is simply the worst part of a U2 song I´ve ever heard. I truly agree with those ones that say this song seems to be a Celine Dion number. This one could have been re-worked as a whole.

Love And Peace... filler. Wasn´t a bad idea, at least, the most "experimental" - nowhere near experimental songs as Lemon, Mofo or Numb - song of the album, but it lacks originality due the same used production, I mean, ATYCLB style. Bono sound the same, guitars sound the same, etc. The only "different" thing are Larry´s drums

City Of Blinding Lights... best song of the whole album. The only one song well produced and constructed.

All Because Of You... this song should have been a B-side. It doesn´t deserve to be on an album, it´s so lame, basic, predictable, etc. As many fans pointed out, it´s like a Rattle & Hum rip off. They tried to "rock" with this song but they failed. The whole song seems to be a pathetic attempt at late 80´s U2, playing out of ideas and singing with the flu. ... and production is, yet again, the same.

A Man And A Woman... from this point the album goes extremely downhill. Tracklisting wasn´t well chosen. They put all the "rock" numbers on the A Side, filling the B side with their most boring songs ever. Yet again, production tried to catch an "emotional" Bono´s voice, that´s mean, completely rough, dry, raspy and having smoking and drinking all weekend as he did on In A Little While. Exactly the same sound. Another B-side song, filler.

Crumbs For Your Table... too much ATYCLB again The album really goes downhill at this point. Nothing new, nothing fresh, all recycled and (ab) used. This song had potential, really

One Step Closer... what´s the point with this song ? is this a song ?. Another filler number as Grace, in the same vein as ATYCLB once again.

Original Of The Species... if you want to realise what does a truly wrong production means, hear this song. Strings and all that cheesy stuff are just annoying as hell. For worse, this song features worst Bono´s performance ever: "DOO DOO DOO DOO..." Without all those strings, stupid "epic" production and editing out those crappy "DOO DOO DOO DOO" the song could have been far better, really. The song starts good ( 0:00 - 0:31 ) but then... oh boy, a shame

Yahweh... Don´t get me wrong, melodies are truly great, really... but Bono´s singing is just terrible. I really love the intro, awesome. The song isn´t as bad as the B-side, but when Bono sings "Yahweh" things go down. He just spoil the whole song by singing in such weak way. Production isn´t that bad ( at last ).

Overall, IMO this is a truly mediocre unfinished album, it lacks whole originality and innovation. Playing it safe once again. Some songs had potential, but they decided to go with another ATYCLB release instead of something brand new. I really hope the next one will be 100% different than this annoying commercial vein.

Cheers

You're fucking awful.

 

[roy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: HTDAAB's Biggest Downfall.....

You're fucking awful.

Alas, he is just a wind-up merchant who should be ignored.

 

[ClaytonMan]

HTDAAB is a good album.

VERTIGO is a great tune

MIRACLE DRUG another great tune although i undersatnd the "classic U2" viewpoint

SOMETIMES Good tune, (very overrated though)

LOVE AND PEACE, Good tune although better production would of made it 10 times better

COBL is a fantastic tune with quite possibly the worst production ive EVER HEARD.

ALL BECAUSE OF YOU, Even Adam isnt happy with this, another BIG production cock up, I love the tune though.

A MAN AND A WOMAN, Very good tune I like it, Production is good, I understand the B side argument, but you need songs like this on an album, nice and catchy

CRUMBS FROM YOUR TABLE , Average heard it all before filler, again production is a let down but is the best from a bad bunch, No WALK ON I tell yer.

ONE STEP CLOSER, Understand the concept but it is in the same vein as Grace absolutley awful

ORIGINAL, good tune but again the production is piss poor.

YAHWEH, Production is great, Really like the song,

NOT INCLUDING FAST CARS

ALBUM IS A MAJOR PRODUCTION NIGHTMARE...

 

[Zoots]

I can see Crumbs = Walk On = Electrical Storm = recycled

But One Step Closer is a lot better than Grace in my opinion. I know I've said this before but I'll say it again. Grace had awful rhyming schemes like walk-chalk-talk and hips-skips-lips-fingertips.

 

[yimou]

You're not fooling anyone. You cannt possibly believe that "I dreamt that I saw Dali/With a supermarket trolley/He was trying to throw his arms around a girl ... I'm gonna run to you, run to you, run to you, woman, be still" and "baby, baby, baby, light my way" are brilliant lyrics. They're flawed.

Bloody hell, some of you Achtung worshippers are nuts.

 

[jackboy]

THE ALBUM ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Zoots]

 

[roy]

You're not fooling anyone. You cannt possibly believe that "I dreamt that I saw Dali/With a supermarket trolley/He was trying to throw his arms around a girl ... I'm gonna run to you, run to you, run to you, woman, be still" and "baby, baby, baby, light my way" are brilliant lyrics. They're flawed.

Bloody hell, some of you Achtung worshippers are nuts.

As that famous saying goes:

Less nutness, more blindness.

Dali, trolley indeed.....

 

[shaun vox]

THE ALBUM ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hahahahahehehahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[shaun vox]

Desparation is a tender trap
It gets you every time
You put your lips to her lips
To stop the lie

Her skin is pale like God's only dove
Screams like an angel for your love
Then she makes you watch her from above
And you need her like a drug


this line alone kills HTDAAB!!!!!

or check this out.

You don't know if it's fear or desire
Danger the drug that takes you higher
Head in heaven, fingers in the mire
Her heart is racing, you can't keep up
The night is bleeding like a cut
Between the horses of love and lust
We are trampled underfoot


AB forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!


oh AB ROCKS NOT HTDAAB!!!!!

 

[Axver]

To each his own. And stop using the same two lyrics in every AB arguement you make.

Why? They're shit lyrics. That's all I need to prove Achtung is flawed to the people who want to say it's perfect.

There is no perfect album or tour. No imperfect person could create a perfect album or tour. And while I say Lovetown comes close, Love Rescue Me really should not have followed When Love Comes To Town in the setlist and when Bono was ill, they played a few shows where his voice was much less than impressive.

 

[bedouin fire]

brian eno is the one that is able to make an u2 album sound like... an album. this means one musical piece that represents a certain period of time in the band.

without brian eno, all that we get is a set of good tunes (being some of them really great) in a record. someting like "the 11 best tracks that we were able to do in these past three years"... which is a not a bad thing, of course.

 

[yimou]

Axver
Just curious.. what is your problem with - baby, baby, baby light my way ? - ... If you think that its a shit lyric then its fine with me. After all then its simply your opinion and you have every right to feel that way, just like i have every right to think that Lovetown was a boring tour, and that Heartland is just barely an ok song.

 

[pax]

Let's all step back here and remember that ALL of this is conjecture and subjective OPINION. NO ONE is going to be right or wrong about songs or lyrics they like, preferences they have, or what have you.

To quote Rob in High Fidelity: "How can it be bullshit to state a preference, Barry?"

Fight nicely, kids. Thanks.

 

[chucky28]

Axver
Just curious.. what is your problem with - baby, baby, baby light my way ? - ... If you think that its a shit lyric then its fine with me. After all then its simply your opinion and you have every right to feel that way, just like i have every right to think that Lovetown was a boring tour, and that Heartland is just barely an ok song.

Yimou, again, we do agree on this Lovetown tour. I heard some Lovetown boots recently, and they dont come close to being as good as the zoo tv ones. And as for the "baby, baby," lyrics, I dont give a damn. To me, Ultraviolet is a better song than Heartland, which is just average in my book. Lyrics are not everything that count. Music is all about emotions, and Ultraviolet brings out those emotions out of me in a way that Heartland can not. So who said music is not subjective?

 

[yimou]

Amen Chucky28 on the Ultraviolet part

 

[babyman]

i think that all in all there aren't any doubts that this is U2's best album of all the times, under all aspects, lyrics, melodies, arrangements, meanings, blood..........maybe many will notice it in 2-3-4-5 years or after the tour, i know it since november 19th 2004

 

[roy]

Ultraviolet is a better song than Heartland.

Wow....
Do you also think 'I Should Be So Lucky' by Kylie Minogue is better than 'Until The End of the World'?