HTDAAB Production Quality

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elfyx said:


Basically, the pressure to master CDs this way usually comes from the label execs. They all want their CD to be the one that "stands out" in the CD changer or on radio.


I can understand why they want the song to stand out, but the weird thing is, I'm actually less apt to play a cd that is drastically louder (or softer) than the others I have in at the time -- it's just too annoying to have to keep adjusting the volume. Then again, for the most part you don't find this stuff out until you've already purchased the cd....
 
Dalton said:



well yeah. that made me laugh right out loud. well done.

yeah well, my girl came up behind me while I was writing that post, and all she saw was "freakishly large penis." I got this: :eyebrow:
 
I agree, there is also some hiss on the quiet parts. I thought it was because of the mp3s, but now on my original cd copy it is the same.
 
Here's two rockers from POP: Discotheque and Gone.

I agree that Pop sounds pretty tight. But of course, most of that has to do with the mixing and not with the final mastering.

Pop was mastered a little loud and took advantage of the CD's 96 dB (theoretical; filters lower this number a bit). But it struck a pretty good balance and kept it's dynamic range pretty much intact.

One of the problems with HTDAAB, imo is that nearly every track (individual parts or instruments that are eventually mixed together to form the whole song) are too loud way too often. This has to do with the mixing, and not the mastering.

At least U2's sound engineers did this at the mixing level. Lazy engineers will do this at the final mastering level and the result is very uneven audio with lots of clipping.


pop.JPG
 
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I said it before, city of blinding lights is the worse mix and production of a U2 song I have ever heard. Its like listening in mono. Yeah I know another moan.
 
rjhbonovox said:
I said it before, city of blinding lights is the worse mix and production of a U2 song I have ever heard. Its like listening in mono. Yeah I know another moan.

Mastering aside, I agree that the mixing on COBL is, imo, not very good. There are tons of things I'd do differently (like put the xylophones way down in the mix), but the mastering makes it sound even worse:

pop-city.JPG
 
JOFO said:
oh, I get it.

well, that's the way records are being produced for the last couple of years I guess.

hey, can you do a graph on pop? because to me that's the best sounding one they've done.

I think so too. That sound was amazing.

Wasn't there an article about this "loud" producing around here? Apparently it's being forced upon by the labels. :huh:
 
I still can't hear any distortion.

Yes, the graphs for Hut dub tracks are maxing out on the graphs, but this doesn't translate into distortion on the CD.
 
boosterjuice said:
I still can't hear any distortion.

Yes, the graphs for Hut dub tracks are maxing out on the graphs, but this doesn't translate into distortion on the CD.

You're correct. A hot signal doesn't necessarily mean distortion-- especially if the waveform is compressed. Technically there seems to be examples of distortion all over the place, but they are very small and short clips usually on the high end (although I've found a couple of bass clips, too) so that they will be very hard to hear. Like I said- I think U2's engineers did the absolute best with what they were told to do.
 
The best places to look for what we're talking about are during portions of the songs when the "most is going on." Take SYCMIOYO. When you have Bono wailing and the guitars playing etc. you have a lot going on towards the end of the piece. When it hits its peaks it sounds like distortion and mono in a way. Why? Bono's voice, the guitars, etc. are all sitting on high in the mix from the get go, which gives it a feeling of mono, when you should have certain things moving up and down in the mix to give it a better feeling of space. Its the audio equivelant of those ugly sale ads we get in the states. They shout with huge type wall to wall and you can barely read any of it because its all the same size, when you should be making it smaller and giving the visuals and the type some room to breath. It's much easier on the eyes. Same goes for a great mix, its easier on the ears when things are given room to breath...

Shame that everything from design to music to movies is dictated by stupid marketing execs etc. and not the experts who do the job.
 
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Production quality is fine on this album in my mind. POP was a great album in my mind but the only think that suffered and was a sore point was the production quality of it.
 
Also the album that everybody loves Joshua Tree had very shotty quality in many places, the songs on the best of really benefited from being remastered.
 
Yahweh said:
Also the album that everybody loves Joshua Tree had very shotty quality in many places

I absolutely agree on that one. JT, while being a great album musically, honestly sounds very timid and tinny in places. I'd love a copy of a remastered super audio CD, to have the bass in streets swell the way it should, and the guitars shimmer the way my mind hears it...
 
Ah, looking at the screen shots I see we have another Sonar user on the forum. Very nice.

Regarding the mix...I'll have to give it a good close listen. I've mainly been listening to it in the car and it's hard to tell. Although, this album did sound loud to me. What I need to do is compare this with Sgt. Pepper's and Dark Side of the Moon (two of the best mastered albums EVER).

Yeah, its really hard for me to understand why people want everything mixed loud. In fact I was doing a session today and my friend kept saying, "Turn the drums up louder." But that's a different story.

Nice thread. It's nice to see people that actually know what's going on from an engineering standpoint critique the album.
 
elfyx said:
I've been listening to HTDAAB, and while I think the music is really great- their best in a long time, I also think this CD is the worst sounding they have ever made.

It's basically way too loud. The entire thing just screams at you and doesn't let up. There is very little dynamic range in its dB levels. Nearly everything is brought to the surface and as a result the audio sounds flat, and one dimensional.

I can't believe U2 would put out a CD that sounds this bad. Louder is not better. Its really really bad; I start to go numb listening to it. ATYCLB was produced really well, and doesn't have this problem at all. HTDAAB had to have been mastered this way due to record label pressure, because I just can't see U2 purposefully putting this crap out there.

One of the side-effects of mastering a CD so hot is a lot of times you will get a lot of digital distortion. I'm checking for that now, and I've already found a few spots. It's just really really sad....:sad:

The HTDAAB sound quality is a pity. They sacrificed it for the sake of loudness so that it will catch the listener's attention. Lots of distortion, compression, and clipping all over the place that leads to an overall flat sound.

But I think this is all part of a bigger more elaborate plan. In a few months, they will release a remastered version of the album in time to jack up sales when sales are slow. Perhaps they will release a remastered version along with a bonus 25th anniversary single or what-have-you. They want to sustain the album's chart position to keep it strong. Then sooner or later, they will have Mobile Fidelity remaster it for the audiophile market and do it in SACD and DVD-Audio. I think this will boost sales since U2's clientelle are old enough to be audiophiles who can afford.

Right now, the version of HTDAAB released is the compressed and clipped on for the teens.

Cheers,

J
 
Re: Re: HTDAAB Production Quality

jick said:


The HTDAAB sound quality is a pity. They sacrificed it for the sake of loudness so that it will catch the listener's attention. Lots of distortion, compression, and clipping all over the place that leads to an overall flat sound.

But I think this is all part of a bigger more elaborate plan. In a few months, they will release a remastered version of the album in time to jack up sales when sales are slow. Perhaps they will release a remastered version along with a bonus 25th anniversary single or what-have-you. They want to sustain the album's chart position to keep it strong. Then sooner or later, they will have Mobile Fidelity remaster it for the audiophile market and do it in SACD and DVD-Audio. I think this will boost sales since U2's clientelle are old enough to be audiophiles who can afford.

Right now, the version of HTDAAB released is the compressed and clipped on for the teens.

Cheers,

J


:banghead:
 
I like the production better than on ATYCLB. At least this record sounds like they are all playing together and not like on the last album that all instruments were put together...badly. So, the mixing was pretty good here, except the over-produced parts of COBL and OOTS. So, for me production has some flaws, but a big improvement over some in the past.
 
GibsonGirl said:


I think he's incapable of writing anything positive about them.

S. kiddo, read my posts well. I love U2. Best band ever. But since 2000 they are going downhill.

Learn to read kiddo.
 
I agree. The entire CD seemed very incomplete. If they spent more time recording All Because of You and actualy tried their best at recording it, I think it could have been one of their best songs.

There are several spots on Miracle Drug that you can hear scratching in the background. It's pathetic, no other U2 album was that bad.
 
Sounds same to me as any U2 album, which is fine. (*ahem* Pop)

I agree that the drums in the quieter songs (NOT Vertigo/All because of you/Love and peace/Crumbs) are a bit quiet.
Which was the case with bass on ATYCLB.
 
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Hot Dub sounds okay for me.

The thing though is that they really nuked tbe bass levels, hell I can turn the bass down and it sounds like a regular U2 CD. Also this is one reason why I think people are bashing Larry's drumming. It's quite good, he just got lost way down in the mix ,that's all.
 
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