great article from NME to throw into the Pop/ ATYCLB shit-fest fiasco

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I really enjoyed the part about the farts....

:der:

Was that written in English? Or have I forgotten how to read? I didn't understand a word of it. Could be because i'm not wearing my glasses and Its 2 in the morning.

I'll just go now. Maybe I'll come back later. All I know is that POP is a masterpiece. And so is ATYCLB. Just in massively different ways.


Those of you who LOVE POP can go over here------>

Those of you who dont can go over there
<--------

Just stop yelling. Good night,
 
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He's on crack ...

A rating of 10 is a farce. Pop should have gotten a 10/10.

Cheers,

J
The King Of Pop
 
I remember this article. I remember it because of the comment about U2 being toe-chewingly awful in the 80's. Oh well. I guess a lot of people on this forum basically agree. Personally, I find myself coming down more on the side of the commentator I read once who said something to the effect that people were eventually going to recognize that a fair amount of U2's 90's work--notice that I say "a fair amount," not "all" or "a lot"--is astonishingly empty.

20 years from now, I think that the music world in general will look back and recognize that U2 released at least two truly great albums in the 80's, UF and JT, and several, if not many great songs off the other albums from that decade. Six studio albums in the 80's. Three in the 90's. One of the 90's albums indisputably great, and I'm not even going to argue with those who think it's their greatest album ever. After that great album at the start of the 90's, did they improve? Did they really branch off into new directions? A little bit. But to the extent that UF is different from War or JT from UF? No. They released two albums with some good moments and a lot of flaws and excess funky noise. I personally am of the opinion that Achtung Baby was something of a dead end. Or maybe we should call it a pinnacle. Because after that, their 90's work was inferior. In the 80's, they got better and better, with the exception of Rattle at the end of the decade, which in some ways was a step back.

Time will tell.
 
I agree with almost everything he said about Pop, and almost nothing he said about U2 in the 80s. But, damn, that was a funny article. Personally, I've *always* thought of U2 as a "a Gonzo Cod Doo Dah Band." :der:
 
they couldn't even truly be a rock'n'roll band, as they showed on 'Rattle & Hum'
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Ouch. Now that's a low blow. :coocoo: :down:

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, so whatever.
 
Why is it necessary to bash '80s U2 in order to praise '90s U2? Yes, I agree, U2 did need to change what they were doing once the '90s arrived or else they definitely would have stagnated, like so many other '80s bands did. But that doesn't mean the '80s stuff was "toe-chewingly awful." :rant:
 
"empty" for who, scatteroflight? I hear the same complaint about radiohead, it's really about perspective, I really don't find that the themes of ATYCLB are that much of a departure from the things going on in the 90s -- it just sounds completely different; maybe the masses/mainstream will say that 90s U2 was empty, just as radiohead's detractors argue, but their are also a lot of people who obviously disagree, and actually find deep, meaningful refuge in the songs of Zooropa and Pop, and it doesn't mean that they are wrong because Bono approached the topics differently during this time, in a way that perhaps wasn't as accessible to as many fans, and it doesn't mean these people get something that others don't, or that they have some greater power of perception, it just means that they connected with Bono's deliverance just as much if not more than with other time periods in the band's history -- and there's nothing shameful in that

and it's highly likely that I have different perspectives on life than you scatteroflight, maybe that has more to do with why I prefer Pop, not because I connect to "empty" songs
 
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I found the article entertaining, but disagreed with many of the points (not all of them, but many of them). Rather than go into all of that right now, let me just say that the writer clearly likes the sound of his own pen. I am quite baffled that people, no matter who they are, continually have to bash one era and glorify the other. Can't it be enough that person X appreciates one more than the other based on subjective opinion? No, of course it can't, but everyone is so fixated inside their own little bubble of reality that they aren't willing to accept there are other viewpoints.

I guess U2 has stretched their boundaries in so many directions that this is inevitable, but it just takes a little faith to realize that U2 have always been serious about what they do. I have a suggestion for those who don't like Pop. Listen to 'If You Wear That Velvet Dress' and pretend that it is NOT U2. You must do this in the dark, using headphones. Listen to Edge's arpageos, reflecting off their own shimmering surfaces, bouncing in and out, away from and through each other, riding the smooth bass line, and the mood that comes out of that brilliance, and you will find yourself...in a state of shock: U2 managed to pull this off?

Then go and listen to the magical soundscapes at the very beginning of 'The Unforgetable Fire' and once you realize that it was the same band, you may have some kind of epiphany that later should have seemed obvious all along. This is just a theory, though.
 
Re: I really enjoyed the part about the farts....

Ali Rose said:
All I know is that POP is a masterpiece. And so is ATYCLB. Just in massively different ways.
Click to expand...

I agree.


Originally posted by Ali Rose
Those of you who LOVE POP can go over here------>

Those of you who dont can go over there
<--------
Click to expand...

*Goes over here -------->*

U2 was "toe-chewingly awful" in the 80's?!

O-kay...whatever...

Angela
 
scatteroflight said:
I remember this article. I remember it because of the comment about U2 being toe-chewingly awful in the 80's. Oh well. I guess a lot of people on this forum basically agree.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure where you would draw that conclusion from. I doubt there is anyone on here who actually hates what U2 represented in the 80s. To the contrary, those of us who prefer the 90s music are in fact very proud of what they did in the 80s. It's not necessary to dislike the 80s sound of U2 if you prefer the 90s. Really, the only thing that irks me about the 80s version of U2 is their na?vete and general "holier than thou" attitude. The 90s, in my opinion, brought us a more sophisticated U2. I prefer what they did then, but I also love what they put out in the 80s. The Joshua Tree is still my favorite album ever, but AB and Pop rank 2nd and 3rd for me respectively, so that's just the way it works out.

Really, I think NME thought that U2 themselves were in some way trying to destroy their 80s image (remember "four men chopping down the Joshua Tree?"), and so they just pushed them along in this article. In fact, U2 still love their 80s music, but remember that they are trying to make each album better than any of the rest, and so its likely they see their earlier work as more simplistic, compared to the experience they are putting into the music they are making nowadays.
 
Foxxern said:


I'm not sure where you would draw that conclusion from. I doubt there is anyone on here who actually hates what U2 represented in the 80s. To the contrary, those of us who prefer the 90s music are in fact very proud of what they did in the 80s. It's not necessary to dislike the 80s sound of U2 if you prefer the 90s. Really, the only thing that irks me about the 80s version of U2 is their na?vete and general "holier than thou" attitude. The 90s, in my opinion, brought us a more sophisticated U2. I prefer what they did then, but I also love what they put out in the 80s. The Joshua Tree is still my favorite album ever, but AB and Pop rank 2nd and 3rd for me respectively, so that's just the way it works out.

Really, I think NME thought that U2 themselves were in some way trying to destroy their 80s image (remember "four men chopping down the Joshua Tree?"), and so they just pushed them along in this article. In fact, U2 still love their 80s music, but remember that they are trying to make each album better than any of the rest, and so its likely they see their earlier work as more simplistic, compared to the experience they are putting into the music they are making nowadays.
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Very well put, Foxxern. The mind set of an artist is very interesting. Though the work may or may not be better with each further endevour, the artist's inner perception seems to be that the work can only get better and better -- if they continually believe in what they are doing, and strive for that ambition.
 
great post Foxxern

people who dislike Pop seem to get really bitter when people say they like this era of U2 more than the 80s or 00s, and then the immediate comparisons are made to these periods and Pop is said to be inferior in its emotional and musical landscape, and if you like Pop I guess it means you have soiled the rest of the U2 catalogue, like every fan is supposed to acknowledge that Pop is inferior or something... I can honestly say I like if not love every one of U2's records, now there are a couple that seem to me to be weaker in comparison to other U2 albums, but not to the rest of the artists out there, for instance ATYCLB is not my favorite U2 album, but I like it more than many of the albums released simultaneously by their contemporaries

I think this is why Pop fans get so testy about people bashing it, because every anti-Pop rant goes on about how the songs are trivial or empty and this is supposed to be accepted as gospel

with ATYCLB, people say "it doesn't rock enough," or "it's too dull and mellow," not "it's an empty, soul-less record which somehow how could have been perfect if they had spent another 6 or 10 months remixing the tracks in the studios blah blah blah... "
 
The Wanderer said:
with ATYCLB, people say "it doesn't rock enough," or "it's too dull and mellow," not "it's an empty, soul-less record which somehow how could have been perfect if they had spent another 6 or 10 months remixing the tracks in the studios blah blah blah... "
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Yeah, I never quite understood the "not enough production" sentiment of the anti (and even the pro)-Pop establishment. I think it might have the *most* production of any U2 album to date! (Though Achtung Baby does have more processing, if you can believe it.) I have a friend who is going into recording engineering, and he believes that Pop was actually over-produced. In his opinion, U2 overproduced themeselves with the whole album, and put too much emphasis on the Johnny Cash "Make Me My Album!" mentality to really enjoy the creation of it. When listening to the album, you can almost sense this. It's a very tight record, actually -- almost too tight. Maybe U2 just needed to loosen up a little bit, bring the album to the party a bit more, and people would have had more fun with it. However, the way it is is a reflection of where U2 were at, at the time, and for that there can be no compromise.
 
Michael Griffiths said:

Yeah, I never quite understood the "not enough production" sentiment of the anti (and even the pro)-Pop establishment. I think it might have the *most* production of any U2 album to date! (Though Achtung Baby does have more processing, if you can believe it.) I have a friend who is going into recording engineering, and he believes that Pop was actually over-produced.
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I agree it is more likely overproduced instead of "not enough production"
still since the outcome doesn't sound that well produced to me they might have spent some more time reproducing some of the tracks
 
I'm only bitter that U2 won't play most of their 80s music live anymore, what a pity we only get a handful of songs (and always the same) from those first 4 albums
 
The Wanderer said:
I'm only bitter that U2 won't play most of their 80s music live anymore, what a pity we only get a handful of songs (and always the same) from those first 4 albums
Click to expand...

Well, I agree with you on that.

*shakes hands cautiously with Wanderer, thinking that the comment about much of U2's 90's music being "empty" might have been a bit unwarranted*
 
I don't even have to say it- I loved what U2 represented in the 80's, and 00's. I hate what they represented in the late 90's. AB is cool. But 80'sU2isBest! (Hey where is that guy?)
 
GypsyHeartgirl said:
I don't even have to say it- I loved what U2 represented in the 80's, and 00's. I hate what they represented in the late 90's. AB is cool. But 80'sU2isBest! (Hey where is that guy?)
Click to expand...
And what, would you say, did they represent in the late '90s?
 
I've read that article before. Funny stuff, but I can never take NME writers seriously. They appear to treat reviews as a personal star vehicle which is more about showing off how clever and witty they are rather than the actual music they're reviewing.

As for the eternal 80s vs 90s debate, as a later-(beautiful)-day U2 fan I don't hold one decade superior to another, as they both have their pluses and minuses for me. I doubt I'd be as much in love with U2 if there wasn't a funkier, sexier, more playful side to counterbalance their 80s music, which could be almost too overbearingly serious and intense at times. I also find the 90s work to be more complex and sophisticated musically, lyrically and thematically, and with the exception of POP era, it's also my favourite U2 period visually.

On the other hand, if you want to talk about the iconic, distinct U2 sound that will be remembered in the years to come, then IMO none of their 90s flirtations with electronica surpass the sound they've created in the 80s. Which is why I'm often puzzled when somebody talks about the 90s as U2's innovative and pioneering period, when it was in the 80s that they've come up with the style that so many other bands imitate and borrow from.
 
Saracene said:
I've read that article before. Funny stuff, but I can never take NME writers seriously. They appear to treat reviews as a personal star vehicle which is more about showing off how clever and witty they are rather than the actual music they're reviewing.

As for the eternal 80s vs 90s debate, as a later-(beautiful)-day U2 fan I don't hold one decade superior to another, as they both have their pluses and minuses for me. I doubt I'd be as much in love with U2 if there wasn't a funkier, sexier, more playful side to counterbalance their 80s music, which could be almost too overbearingly serious and intense at times. I also find the 90s work to be more complex and sophisticated musically, lyrically and thematically, and with the exception of POP era, it's also my favourite U2 period visually.

On the other hand, if you want to talk about the iconic, distinct U2 sound that will be remembered in the years to come, then IMO none of their 90s flirtations with electronica surpass the sound they've created in the 80s. Which is why I'm often puzzled when somebody talks about the 90s as U2's innovative and pioneering period, when it was in the 80s that they've come up with the style that so many other bands imitate and borrow from.
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I like your thinking, Saracene. I'm not sure, though, if the 90's material is that much more sophisticated than, say, albums like The Joshua Tree and Unforgettable Fire. Lyrically, thematically, and even musically, I would say that those two albums are comparable, if not better (with the possible exception of Achtung Baby) than anything U2 released in the 90s.
 
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