Does U2 Have Studio Weaknesses?

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namkcuR

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Does U2 Have Studio Weaknesses? (Close the other thread)

We often remark about how amazing U2 are live and how great their live performances have consistantly been for two and a half decades. But, is it possible that those live performances sometimes achieve such high heights because they are maximizing the potential of songs whose studio versions failed to do so?

In some cases, a tour starts just a few months after an album is released and on the first show of the tour they play a song from whatever the newest record is, differently from the album, with new stuff added in, all the stuff that makes live U2 live U2. So if they perform the song like that 3 months, 5 months, after the album comes out, why didn't they perform it like that ON the album?

Also, often times, during or after a tour, they'll try to re-record or alter a studio version of a song to reflect its live counterpart, case in point the Single version of Streets, the Single version of Please, the Best Of version of Gone, the Single version of Walk On, the Single version of OOTS, etc. Never has a re-worked studio version been able to match the live counterpart it is emulating.

These are just a few examples - I've included the year next to each to illustrate that this has been going on for their entire career:

Song - 1979: 11 O'Clock Tick Tock
Live Improvement - Better guitar, Better vocals, the 'Call out' vocal codas.

Song - 1982: Party Girl
Live Improvement - Come on, who here would actually take the studio version over the live versions, particuarly the one on UABRS? Everything is better live.

Song1984: Bad
Live Improvement - The studio version of Bad is really good, but live it is just something different, it is more aggressive, more rock, more epic. This one isn't such a big deal, really, because the studio version is amazing in its own way.

Song1987: Streets
Live Improvement - Studio Streets is an incredible rock song. Live Streets is a religious experience. With the exception of the Vertigo Tour, the intro is longer and more chill-inducing, there's Bono and Edge harmonozing on the Oh-oh-oh, oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh, at the end, among other things.
Why the subsequent re-recorded version still doesn't match the live performances - The intro still isn't long and drawn out like the live version, and there's still no 'Oh-oh-oh, oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh's at the end.

Song1987: Bullet The Blue Sky
Live Improvement - Edge. Solos. Enough said.

Song1991: One
Live Improvement - The 'hear me calling' vocal coda.

Song1993: Dirty Day
Live Improvement - More 'rock' live. Longer solos.
Why the subsequent re-recorded version still doesn't match the live performances - Actually, the 'Bitter Kiss' mix almost does.

Song1997: Please
Live Improvement - Absolutely incredible live. No explanation needed.
Why the subsequent re-recorded version still doesn't match the live performances - U2 manages to neuter the rhythm section while inserting an abbreviated version of Edge's solo(it really is 10 seconds longer live).

Song - 1997: Mofo
Live Improvement - The 'Move me a mountain' outro after the original 'sooth me/show me' outro. It sends chills up my spine, with Edge singing it high with Bono singing it in the low seductive voice he used a lot in the 90s...totally absent on the album.

Song - 1997: Gone
Live Improvement - Edge's 'Dooooooowwwn's live added a lot, imo.
Why the subsequent re-recorded version still doesn't match the live performances - The Best Of version of gone does an average job of inserting Edge's 'Dooooooowns'...they're absent in the first chorus and barely audible in the last chorus. And the sirens are gone.

Song - 2000: Stuck In A Moment
Live Improvement - When they played this during the Elevation Tour, after the first chorus, right before the start of the second verse, Edge plays this little mini-intro-riff that didn't exist on the ATYCLB album version. I love that. The live version during the Elevation Tour seemed to take the cheesiness out of the studio version without being acoustic. Why couldn't it be like that on the album?

Song - 2000: Walk On
Live Improvement - The Hallelujahs, oh the Hallelujahs.
Why the subsequent re-recorded version still doesn't match the live performances - The Single version of Walk On totally omits the 'Home' bridge and then the Hallelujahs just aren't as chill-inducing as they are live.

Song - 2004: OOTS
Live Improvement - Edge plays a keyboard progression during the chorus live...at least during the first leg. I haven't heard the full-band live versions much.
Why the subsequent re-recorded version still doesn't match the live performances - The Single version of OOTS lacks the keyboard progressions in the chorus that Edge played during the first leg.

Song - 2004: Sometimes
Live Improvement - The line 'I still gotta let you know/a house doesn't make a home'....live, Bono soars on the I, 'IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII still gotta let you know', but on the album it's just, 'I still gotta...'.

Song - 2004: COBL
Live Improvement - The intro is longer, the precussion is all-around better, and the song overall just doesn't seem as cheesy live.

I realize this can be HIGHLY subjective and as such, you might disagree with any portion of what I've said. I'm just starting a discussion about whether or not U2 may have some certain weaknesses where studio recordings are concerned. Certainly we are only talking about a handful of songs and for the most part they're better than fine in the studio, but for that handful of songs, listening to studio versions can be infuriating, imo. And I don't know if that can be said for other all-time great bands. Look at the Beatles. Is there a single song in their catalog for which you'd say, 'It's much better live'?
 
Song : 2004 - All Because Of You
Live Improvement : A complete Bore up until the 3rd leg, But Much more rocky live than in the studio.
 
Almost every U2 song is better live, really. There are some exceptions (Zooropa, from what I've heard, and Still Haven't Found never did much for me live) but not many. Sometimes I wonder if U2 purposely holds back in the studio. I think part of it is U2 realizes they have to kick it up a notch live; they try to make everything more "rockin'' (hence extended solos and such). But I actually think U2 is getting better in the studio. Yeah, all the HTDAAB songs are better live, but they were closer to the live versions this time around than ever before, I think. They're finally starting to be what they are live in the studio.
 
No UTEOTW nod? No...that's just wrong. :|

Of COURSE U2 is inferior in the studio! Bono doesn't even LIKE the studio! :wink:
 
U2 in inferior in the studio because Bono's giant ego is better suited for outdoor stadiums

ZING!
 
It's all good...I often enjoy the contrasts between live and studio. It just gives me more to listen to.
 
I suppose I'm in the minority in that I usually prefer studio incarnations. I often feel that U2's better-produced albums have a special feel to them that can't be recreated live...songs like Bad, The Fly, Lemon etc have much more atmosphere to them in their album versions, IMO.
 
Sleep Over Jack said:
I suppose I'm in the minority in that I usually prefer studio incarnations. I often feel that U2's better-produced albums have a special feel to them that can't be recreated live...songs like Bad, The Fly, Lemon etc have much more atmosphere to them in their album versions, IMO.

I call that atmosphere "mud". Bad was poorly produced on the album, and Bono could hardly keep his voice under control. The Fly is kept on a leash on the album, but is absolutely unleashed live. Lemon is great no matter where it's played.
 
I've converted people by getting them to listen to live versions of ANYTHING. U2 just seems to lack a spark in the studio, I don't know what it is. I was a U2 fan, and then I watched R&H, and then I was triple the U2 fan.

I feel like a lot of it is a production thing and they feel they need to get everything *perfect* so the studio versions tend to come out... "neutered" as you would say. They never seem loud enough compared with other albums, nothing is punchy enough, Bono's vocals sound distant, oftentimes I can barely discern Edge's guitar... it all kind of mushes together into one sound. I Will Follow is an example, I never gave it a second thought until I saw the Boston DVD. That guitar riff is AMAZING! It's just that it's so muffled on the album! :mad:
 
I've discovered recently that i like UTEOTW better studio then live. Musically, it is better on the album. Live there is only 1 guitar and there are like 3 guitar parts on the album. Although there is the extended outro live....
 
JMScoopy said:
I've discovered recently that i like UTEOTW better studio then live. Musically, it is better on the album. Live there is only 1 guitar and there are like 3 guitar parts on the album. Although there is the extended outro live....

Yes, I've noticed that the guitars sound a tad hollow live, but the outro is what always wins me over.

Mysterious Ways has gone limp recently. Any version of MW from Zoo TV blows those out of the water.

7 minute Mysterious Ways with that outro....I need to put a ZooTV bootleg! NOW! :drool: :shocked: :combust:
 
LemonMelon said:


I call that atmosphere "mud". Bad was poorly produced on the album, and Bono could hardly keep his voice under control. The Fly is kept on a leash on the album, but is absolutely unleashed live. Lemon is great no matter where it's played.


I love the album version..I don't see what is "muddy" about it..I don't like clean, pristine production anyway.
 
yeah I sometimes think they purposely make the studio versions weak so they can take them to a new level live!
 
Song - 2000: Stuck In A Moment
Live Improvement - When they played this during the Elevation Tour, after the first chorus, right before the start of the second verse, Edge plays this little mini-intro-riff that didn't exist on the ATYCLB album version. I love that. The live version during the Elevation Tour seemed to take the cheesiness out of the studio version without being acoustic. Why couldn't it be like that on the album?

i was listening to it today and missing that cool little riff! i love it and wish they would add it! oh well, little things like that make the live songs a tad betteR!

Overall, I agree. I use my portable DVD player now when working out so I can watch Live DVD's. Incredible.

The Fly is something else live. As long as Edge is singing the falsetto part in the chorus...

:drool:
 
It's about sum of the parts being greater than the whole

that's why you can count on one hand the number of truly great U2 covers. Tori Amos took RTSS and turned it on it's head to make it brilliant, Sepultura and others do a straight up cover and it doesn't translate. Althought maybe good, the magic isn't close.

Their weakness is an inability to translate an overactive imagination. They don't have the tools to match the ideas of Bono, or maybe Edge, or maybe all of their creative hunger.

The rhythm section is capable, but that is a polite way of saying, pretty average. They are distinct becuase they are individuals. I always thought Adam was an average bassist, at best, yet I think he was brilliant on Pop. It's the difference between a certain goal in the studio. He can be, or sound amazing, or he can sound like he 's just playing the part. Larry is the same, only worse. He's adept just fucking boring lately. Since ZooTv and including, sorry Larry lovers, listen to WOWY on R&H, end of story.

The songs get better live because of the rhythm section and because Bono, the showman gets comfortable, even Edge settles in.

U2's studio weakness' are the ambitions for the songs as they sit on a recorder/tape deck. Bono will swear to you up and down how good song X is, he will never know until he takes it out and sings it. Their studio wekaness is that they can never know the sum of their own parts until the public hears it and until these songs have been exorcized of their demons, and then blessed...live.

Bad was great in the studio, on the album, it never became legendary until they just realize the song. Live.

That's just fucking magic. You can't make it in to a formula.
You can't quantify or qualify it.
 
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I don't think U2 have a studio weakness, as much as a live strength.

They write as they record, so what you get from the studio recordings hasn't had the benefit of live perfomance and repeated rehearsal. They write, record, then try and figure out how to play it live later.

I'd imagine they could play songs live, test them out, then record them. But then we'd know what 1/2 the songs from the new record would sound like before the albums were released. Good bye major anticipation. Something I would miss.

But then again, Walk On and Please single versions are essentially "live" arrangements. A plus for playing them live first.

And that fill you like in Stuck, is sweet.
 
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MrBrau1 said:


They write as they record, so what you get from the studio recordings hasn't had the benefit of live perfomance and repeated rehearsal. They write, record, then try and figure out how to play it live later.
.

A great point.

Even on the album/the studio versions are realizations of ideas that change constantly.
 
U2DMfan said:


A great point.

Even on the album/the studio versions are realizations of ideas that change constantly.

Giving up on the anticipation factor, I'd like to hear them play a song live for a year, then record it.

I wonder what we'd get? Given how they've changed songs like The Fly over 3 different tours.

Then again, it's nice to hear so many different interpretations from the same band.
 
MrBrau1 said:


Giving up on the anticipation factor, I'd like to hear them play a song live for a year, then record it.

I wonder what we'd get? Given how they've changed songs like The Fly over 3 different tours.

Then again, it's nice to hear so many different interpretations from the same band.

I, like you, prefer a proper release and all that jazz.

But, in some cases, it may benfit the song.

I think if you nailed one out of the park, like One or Hold Me, Thrill Me, you gotta put that shit on record.

But maybe on other songs, like Please, possibly, you could let them breathe live for a good while.

U2 seem to like to have a work regiment anyways when performing live, even if they go off script, they like the backbone.
 
MrBrau1 said:


Giving up on the anticipation factor, I'd like to hear them play a song live for a year, then record it.

I wonder what we'd get? Given how they've changed songs like The Fly over 3 different tours.

Then again, it's nice to hear so many different interpretations from the same band.

Urgh! What am I talking about.

Gone based off live performance wouldn't have that 747 guitar lead.

Acrobat wouldn't exist.

Zooropa would only be the second 1/2 of the tune.
 
U2DMfan said:


I, like you, prefer a proper release and all that jazz.

But, in some cases, it may benfit the song.

I think if you nailed one out of the park, like One or Hold Me, Thrill Me, you gotta put that shit on record.

But maybe on other songs, like Please, possibly, you could let them breathe live for a good while.

U2 seem to like to have a work regiment anyways when performing live, even if they go off script, they like the backbone.

Yeah, I keep changing my mind.

What if they'd played Dirty Day live before recording it?

We'd have a studio version that rivaled the Sydney version? :drool:
 
Their only weakness(as far as live vs studio goes) is that they aren't willing to try out songs live before they record.

Some bands try out songs live and let them evolve, but in today's internet world it ruins the surprise of a new album.

Other bands record songs and play them exactly like they were recorded.

U2 has never been either one of those bands. That's why live albums and DVDs are essential to U2's catalog.
 
Steve Lillywhite once said that he wished they would go on tour for 6 months then come back and record the album!
 
I also think that what works in a live setting doesn't always work in a studio setting. To me, Coldplay are the inverse of U2 - their music needs precision and a clear voice to succeed, and live it falls down because it sounds too "real". U2 are the opposite.

Bono's voice sounds restrained and without the snippets, random words, changing/forgetting of lyrics it becomes sterile.

With that said, take these 9/10/11 minute versions of bad, if they were a studio recording they would sound self indulgent and without atmosphere. Most of U2's songs are a lot longer live allowing more scope for change.
Plus "woaaah" sounds pretty crap on a studio version. Like "wtf is he doing".

Take for instance Vertigo "yeah yeah yeah yeah etc" sounds pretty lame on the song, but live its OK because its "passion". In the studio its "we don't have any lyrics for here but Bono can't shut up".
 
Re: Does U2 Have Studio Weaknesses? (Close the other thread)

namkcuR said:


Song - 1982: Party GirlLive Improvement - Come on, who here would actually take the studio version over the live versions, particuarly the one on UABRS?

Me, I just think it sounds better thanks to the way it was recorded and the overall resulting sound, especially with the piano.

Plus I've always preferred Bullet the Blue Sky is better live, the guitar is much better [extended solo or not] and the song just has a much better 'atmosphere' to it!
 
MrBrau1 said:
I don't think U2 have a studio weakness, as much as a live strength.

Amen to this. :up:

I think what happens is the band writes these songs in the studio, and they are limited by the fact that they have to end up with something that will fit on a pre-packaged, slickly wrapped CD. Once they take those songs out of the sterile studio environment, they're free to experiment and let out all the creative stops. So Edge can include a seven-minute solo, they can add some Hallelujahs. Songs get bigger when they are performed live. U2's music is already big, but some songs just need that unlimited space of the live performance to really come into their own. Sometimes the studio just isn't enough.
 
War-

SBS: tie, miss the violins live
Seconds: don't know
NYD: tie, don't see much difference
LAS: don't know
DM: don't know
Ref.: don't know
THBAO: studio
RL: don't know
Surrender: tie, don't see much difference
40: live, more stirring

UF-

ASOH: studio, arrangement is magical
Pride: studio, layered harmonies make the song
Wire: don't know
UF: don't know
Promenade: don't know
4th: don't know
Bad: studio, used to think live, but I like the 'mud'
ISS: don't know
EPAA: don't know
MLK: live, more stirring

JT-

WTSHNN: live, intro intro intro
ISHFWILF: studio, more panoramic
WOWY: live, circa R&H
BTBS: tie, both have different strengths
RTSS: tie, read above line
RHMT: studio, no question
IGC: live, more fire
TTYW: don't know
OTH: live, circa LoveTown
Exit: live, more intense
MOTD: studio, it's prettier

R&H-

Desire: live, if not acoustic versions
Hawkmoon: don't know
AOH: tie
LRM: don't know
WLCTT: tie, don't see much difference
Heartland: don't know
God Pt. 2: don't know
AIWIY: studio, must have drawn out ending

AB-

ZS: tie, not a big difference
EBTTRT: studio, vocal harmanies are too essential
One: live, just barely
UTEOTW: studio, just barely
WGRYWH: studio, a little more going on
SC: don't know
Fly: studio, the textural feel is brilliant
MW: studio, too spliced up live for me
TTTYAAW: live, they add a 'spanish' feel that improves it
Ultraviolet: tie, not much difference
Acrobat: don't know
LIB: live, no contest here

Zooropa-

Zooropa: don't know
Babyface: don't know
Numb: studio, too dopey live
Lemon: tie, 'midnights' sound better live, rest goes to studio
Stay: tie, not enough difference
DGPFYCC: tie
SDABTO: don't know
FT: don't know
DD: live, more rock
Wanderer: don't know

Pop-

Disco: live, more focused
DYFL: studio, makes its point better
Mofo: studio, less predictable sounding
IGWSHA: don't know
SATS: studio, less sing-along
LNOE: live, bridge bridge bridge
Gone: live, not by much though
Miami: don't know
PM: don't know
Please: live, more fire
WUDM: studio, brilliant arrangement

ATYCLB-

BD: tie
SIAMYCGOO: live, more pure
Elevation: live, more life
WO: live, Hallelujuh's
Kite: live, breathes better
IALW: studio, not even close
WH: studio
POE: don't know
NY: live, more focused
Grace: don't know

HTDAAB-

Vertigo: studio, vocals vocals vocals
MD: studio, 1st minute ranks among best studio moments
SYCMIOYO: tie, not a big difference to me
LAPOE: live, a little darker
COBL: live, if guitar dominates intro instead of keyboards, else tie
ABOY: studio, last minute or so is better on studio
AMAAW: don't know
CFYT: don't know
OSC: don't know
OOTS: live, just barely
Yahweh: live, folkier

All in all,

23 picks for studio
25 picks for live
13 ties
The rest are don't know's

more even than I thought.
 
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