do you think that bono truly believes in his causes...

[Liesje]

but being a public person giving speeches about this matter, advocating solutions, trying to convince people - would it not benefit his cause if he as a person had all the credibility he could possibly have?

Yes, but then we're back to square one. In every single speech and interview I've heard Bono give on the subject, he's been VERY clear that he does not feel that celebrities should have to whore themselves out to politicians and the public just to get people to notice that half of our generation is starving to death. I think Bono would be extremely disappointed that people are judging the importance of this issue based on HIM and not the cause itself. All he wants to do is get people to wake up and smell the coffee. WE are responsible for educating ourselves, pressuring our governments, and working out solutions. He doesn't WANT us to become yes-men that follow him around, blindly believing in whatever he thinks is the right solution. All he wants us to do is CARE (and not about HIM but about the rest of the world). If we get caught up with his credibility and bla bla bla, we've already missed this point. We're making the issue "Bono's cause" where it should be OUR RESPONSIBILITY.

 

[U2isthebest]

Yes, but then we're back to square one. In every single speech and interview I've heard Bono give on the subject, he's been VERY clear that he does not feel that celebrities should have to whore themselves out to politicians and the public just to get people to notice that half of our generation is starving to death. I think Bono would be extremely disappointed that people are judging the importance of this issue based on HIM and not the cause itself. All he wants to do is get people to wake up and smell the coffee. WE are responsible for educating ourselves, pressuring our governments, and working out solutions. He doesn't WANT us to become yes-men that follow him around, blindly believing in whatever he thinks is the right solution. All he wants us to do is CARE (and not about HIM but about the rest of the world). If we get caught up with his credibility and bla bla bla, we've already missed this point. We're making the issue "Bono's cause" where it should be OUR RESPONSIBILITY.

Thank you! I could not agree more. While, I will admit that I had not heard a lot of this situation until I began learning more about Bono's involvement with it, I certainly am not concerned or motivated to help because of him. Perhaps, those who are so worried about Bono's own beliefs and motivations that they refuse to do anything, unless they know them, should look at their own blind hero worship and quit accusing others of it. (That last comment is addressed to the general public, btw, not necessairly anyone here)

 

[corianderstem]

hey, welcome back, you didnt leave after all.

isnt this thread awesome?

I left yesterday because I was having irrational overreations to this thread, which I've learned to take as a sign saying, "Step away from the computer."

I'm just wondering why you seem so hell-bent on convincing us of your argument. Maybe it's just my perception.

And I've seen awesomer.

 

[Galeongirl]

Yes, but then we're back to square one. In every single speech and interview I've heard Bono give on the subject, he's been VERY clear that he does not feel that celebrities should have to whore themselves out to politicians and the public just to get people to notice that half of our generation is starving to death. I think Bono would be extremely disappointed that people are judging the importance of this issue based on HIM and not the cause itself. All he wants to do is get people to wake up and smell the coffee. WE are responsible for educating ourselves, pressuring our governments, and working out solutions. He doesn't WANT us to become yes-men that follow him around, blindly believing in whatever he thinks is the right solution. All he wants us to do is CARE (and not about HIM but about the rest of the world). If we get caught up with his credibility and bla bla bla, we've already missed this point. We're making the issue "Bono's cause" where it should be OUR RESPONSIBILITY.

Exactly! I am not part of the ONE campaign and buying Edun stuff(not that I Can buy much, since it's barely available in Holland) because I'd like to follow Bono. I do it, because he made me aware of something I want to support.

and U2kitten, where did you get the impression that Bono's maserati was a quarter of a million? It's 150,000 euros.
Not to start anything against you, I'm just wondering where you found out about this and the NYC appartment prices, since I've nver been able to find anything about it...

 

[U2Man]

Exactly! I am not part of the ONE campaign and buying Edun stuff(not that I Can buy much, since it's barely available in Holland) because I'd like to follow Bono. I do it, because he made me aware of something I want to support.

how many non-u2 fans do you think buy edun and are members of the ONE campaign?

 

[sue4u2]

I assume everyone who finds this so abhorrent of U2 and company has already set up an automatic draft to let the IRS(or whatever) deduct exactly what they say you owe, right?
You'll have no need to bother with paperwork, you won't be claiming any exemptions or deductions - no tax breaks at all - so just call them and tell them to take it all on April 15th.

 

[U2Kitten]

how many non-u2 fans do you think buy edun and are members of the ONE campaign?

THAT is the point! It's not about the fans, you KNOW he's got them, it's the rest of the world, non fans, casual fans that this is about!

GG- the price of the apt. was well publicized in the days when he bought it. All over the news, and you know we get all the news here. 150 Euros is about 200-300 US dollars, based on the current rate of exchange. The pound was always more than the dollar. Even if it was only dollars that's a lot to pay for a car. Mine cost 3 thousand and it serves its purpose just fine.Honestly, and you can hold me to this IF it ever happens- the thought of rich people spending more than most people make in a year for a car, or more than many make in a month on one set of clothes, completely sickens me. I'd never do it. I would start my own tax deductible charity.

 

[Chizip]

how many non-u2 fans do you think buy edun and are members of the ONE campaign?

im part of the one campagin because of brad pitt

 

[Muminki]

how many non-u2 fans do you think buy edun and are members of the ONE campaign?

i know lots of people who are members of the one campaign and not u2 fans.

is this important anyway?

imo, one extra person supporting a cause in any way they can, regardless of what they do with the rest of their money, is better than no help whatsoever

seems like this discussion is just going round in circles.

 

[U2Man]

is this important anyway?

yes - chizip wouldnt be a member of the one campaign if it wasnt for brad pitt. celebrities and their status do matter. and bono has admitted that several times. thats why he is using himself.

 

[Muminki]

it is a well known fact that their status matters. yes.

i don't understand why that, or if someone is a member of the one campaign because of this celebrity or that celebrity, has anything to do with bono really believing in his causes or u2 and their taxes

 

[BVS]

so was bono on the board when they decided to move u2 corp out of ireland, or did his friends say to him: "fuck you and your african crap, we want the money."

don't tell me that bono couldnt tell that this wouldnt look good, and that it would inevitably hurt his cause.

?

Here's the thing, anyone who speaks for the poor, the abused, and the neglected risks hypocricy. In fact I would say most if not all will find some hypocricy in their words or actions. It's the nature of the beast. The poor and the neglected can't speak for themselves, they don't have the platform. The people who have the platform will always be more privelaged than the ones they speak for. So unless they give ALL then they will fall short in some people's eyes. So who else is speaking for them? Who else is doing anything for them?

 

[BVS]

how many non-u2 fans do you think buy edun and are members of the ONE campaign?

A LOT!!!

 

[Ralphie]

Trying not to repeat myself here, but it seems as if the discussion has morphed a bit since the last time I checked in (the question on the table now seems to be "Does Bono's personal lifestyle affect his ability to campaign for the poor due to how others may or may not perceive his actions?")

I think we'd have to do some sort of worldwide poll to know the answer to this for sure. Outside of that, all we can do is speculate about how the majority of non-U2 fans feel. My impression, again, is that most non-U2 fans here in the US don't know much about it one way or the other. Generally if the topic of U2 comes up in conversation the reply I get is..."Oh yeah, those guys...I hear they did an awesome live show in (insert city near that person) last year", or maybe "Oh yeah, Bono, the guy who does the Africa stuff. That's nice." Granted, there is always a group that will just think of celebrities in general as being too preachy / liberal / rich / superior, but I doubt they would be swayed either way. Just my personal experience with that topic.

My own opinion is that Bono's 'street cred' (whatever your opinion of it may be!) isn't/won't be what stands in the way of governments supporting Africa. I think the biggest obstacle in that battle is general apathy - people hear about it and think "Oh, what a shame," for a few minutes, and then it's on to the next thing, and when election time rolls around then the same old issues are the ones that get people into office.

 

[Muminki]

Here's the thing, anyone who speaks for the poor, the abused, and the neglected risks hypocricy.

i think bono would always have people doubting him no matter what he was speaking up for

 

[U2Man]

Yes, but then we're back to square one. In every single speech and interview I've heard Bono give on the subject, he's been VERY clear that he does not feel that celebrities should have to whore themselves out to politicians and the public just to get people to notice that half of our generation is starving to death. I think Bono would be extremely disappointed that people are judging the importance of this issue based on HIM and not the cause itself. All he wants to do is get people to wake up and smell the coffee. WE are responsible for educating ourselves, pressuring our governments, and working out solutions. He doesn't WANT us to become yes-men that follow him around, blindly believing in whatever he thinks is the right solution. All he wants us to do is CARE (and not about HIM but about the rest of the world). If we get caught up with his credibility and bla bla bla, we've already missed this point. We're making the issue "Bono's cause" where it should be OUR RESPONSIBILITY.

and that all sounds right, but anyone doing political work knows what personal credibility means in the real world. america forgot about the rest of the world, including terrorists, for several years, because they were so obsessed with where bill clinton's weiner had been many years ago and whether or not he lied about it.

who wouldnt want the world to care about the poor?

who wouldnt want to make all people better off?

besides a handfull of psycopaths, i don't think you'll find many people that would oppose these issues.

 

[Galeongirl]

how many non-u2 fans do you think buy edun and are members of the ONE campaign?

More than you think! A lot of people have asked me what the white band is for, and when I explained it to them, some of them asked me what they could do, and if they could get a band.. And I also found out that some guys I vaguely knew who came back from America had bought Edun stuff and they didn't even know the Bono connection, they just liked the stuff and that it was a socially conscious thing...

And U2kitten, I see your point, and I know that I shouldn't compare, but in this case I am going to. Yea, Bono bought ONE expensive car, he has three houses, and is still campaigning for debt relief. According to you this is hypocritical, and I can see your point, but I honestly fail to see it comparing that to all those Hollywood bobo's with their 20 cars and their multiple many million dollar houses who do completely nothing. At least Bono IS doing something to give back to the world for all he got, you can at least acknowledge that right?
the 150,000 euros is 193,000 dollar btw according to google..

 

[biff]

the 150,000 euros is 193,000 dollar btw according to google..

True, but that car doesn't cost 150,000 euros. I actually went for a ride in one exactly like Bono's a while back, and it was about $160,000 Canadian = less than $130, 000 US.

 

[Ralphie]

besides a handfull of psycopaths, i don't think you'll find many people that would oppose these issues.

I agree with you that this is how it should be, U2Man, but sadly, you'll find that these issues do meet a great deal of opposition. I'm not sure how your comment was intended so I hope I'm not misrepresenting your words, but there are plenty of peope who are really not on board with helping foreign countries for a variety of reasons - some more understandable ('it won't work anyways') and some sadder ('they're not our problem').

Oh, and just as a point of interest, here is a snippet from an article where Bono discusses the very issue people are debating here:

Christine Sams
November 10, 2006
Page 2 of 2

Since the big-haired high school students from working-class Dublin formed U2 in the late '70s, Bono has evolved into not only a rock star but also "Saint Bono", the political activist.

The contrast between being a "spoilt rotten rock star" - as Bono cheerfully describes it - and an anti-poverty campaigner is too much for some critics, although U2's fanbase doesn't seem to mind.

The frontman says the entire band have had to cop criticism for his charity efforts but he thinks it would be even worse if they didn't own up to their own luxurious life as mega-rich musicians.

During the Australian tour, U2 are flying between cities on a private jet, painted with the Vertigo logo. Backstage, the band have a range of private rooms including the "U2 Quiet Room" and dining room.

Then there's the legion of loyal U2 staff travelling with them in Australia - during our chat, a man pops his head into the dressing room to see if he can charge up Bono's mobile phone.

At the mention of criticism from some quarters, Bono simply shrugs his shoulders.

"Was it Russell Simmons, the godfather of hip-hop, who said, 'You can't help the poor if you are one'?¿" Bono says. "I wouldn't be so smart-arsed about it, but there is a sort of Catholic guilt that comes with making a few bob.

"I tell you what would be even more insufferable - can you imagine if I publicly gave all my money away? They would just hang me from the gallows. They would just say, 'Get on the f---ing donkey and this way to crucifixion.' I think actually people like the fact that we own up to living it large."

 

[biff]

who wouldnt want the world to care about the poor?

who wouldnt want to make all people better off?

besides a handfull of psycopaths, i don't think you'll find many people that would oppose these issues.

No, they won't "oppose these issues", but will they actually get up and do something about it?
Ralphie's right; people can be very apathetic. What was it Bono said a few years ago to explain why he was becoming so involved in the Drop the Debt campaign? "I'm rebelling against my own indifference." That's a hard thing to do, to aggressively got out and try to make things better in the world.
Does he believe in his causes? I can't believe that anyone would devote the huge amount of time and effort he has to this and not have a compelling and passionate belief in it. It's not possible.

 

[U2Man]

Here's the thing, anyone who speaks for the poor, the abused, and the neglected risks hypocricy. In fact I would say most if not all will find some hypocricy in their words or actions. It's the nature of the beast. The poor and the neglected can't speak for themselves, they don't have the platform. The people who have the platform will always be more privelaged than the ones they speak for. So unless they give ALL then they will fall short in some people's eyes. So who else is speaking for them? Who else is doing anything for them?

that didnt answer my question, though.

you're right that the rich and priviledged have a history of speaking for the poor. conservatives in europe have been doing this for ages, claiming that they are the ones that really care for the poor. (the poor never got away from being copyholders on their estates, as long as the conservatives were in charge, though).

no, no one else is speaking for the poor, because the rest of the population think that their everyday life is tough enough already, so they don't have the necessary surplus. they care about how they are going to afford their kids' education, their meds, their next operation, their housing, etc., etc. and in the world we live in, i cannot see how any politician could win an election, asking them to pay more of their own money for their health insurance, education, etc. because he wants to spend their tax money on saving africa. it's just too far from people's everyday life.

if, furthermore, that same politician has tried to avoid paying taxes himself, it doesn't help his case at all.

 

[biff]

I agree with you that this is how it should be, U2Man, but sadly, you'll find that these issues do meet a great deal of opposition. I'm not sure how your comment was intended so I hope I'm not misrepresenting your words, but there are plenty of peope who are really not on board with helping foreign countries for a variety of reasons - some more understandable ('it won't work anyways') and some sadder ('they're not our problem').

Add to these the old "throwing money down a rat hole" complaint, and the comments about propping up corrupt leaders.

 

[popsadie2]

No one is perfect and the motivations for most people are rarely 100 percent pure. That doesn't mean that I don't believe Bono doesn't believe in his cause. The man has spent Many hours reading up on world economics and arguing for his cause. I don't believe that that kind of sacrifice of time and well being isn't something that would come from someone simply looking to improve his image or legacy.
In regards to Bono's charity or lack of....A few years ago, while standing in line for a Flaming Lips concert, I met the mother and sister of a U2 fan who had had the opportunity to meet Bono via the Make a Wish Foundation. Apparently, the daughter had been flown to Dublin to meet the band during the first encounter, and had been flown to Dublin several times after that with paid housing. According to the mother, Bono personally paid for several operations that the girl needed. Cooincidentally, three years earlier, I had been in email correspondence with a girl that had claimed she had met Bono a few times though Make a Wish, but out of respect, I never asked her to give me anymore details about the experiences.

 

[U2Man]

At least Bono IS doing something to give back to the world for all he got, you can at least acknowledge that right?

this thread isnt about whether bono is doing something or not, of course, he is. that is obvious to anyone. the question is how much he actually believes that it is possible to reach the rather big goals he has set forth.

 

[Liesje]

who wouldnt want the world to care about the poor?

who wouldnt want to make all people better off?

besides a handfull of psycopaths, i don't think you'll find many people that would oppose these issues.

Exactly. So then why is it so hard to believe that Bono believes in what he's doing?

And I still don't get how U2's taxes are more relevant to your question than everything else people are saying here....

 

[Muminki]

this thread isnt about whether bono is doing something or not, of course, he is. that is obvious to anyone. the question is how much he actually believes that it is possible to reach the rather big goals he has set forth.

The tragedy in life doesn't lie in not reaching your goal. The tragedy lies in having no goal to reach.

 

[U2Fanatic4ever]

Yes, but then we're back to square one. In every single speech and interview I've heard Bono give on the subject, he's been VERY clear that he does not feel that celebrities should have to whore themselves out to politicians and the public just to get people to notice that half of our generation is starving to death. I think Bono would be extremely disappointed that people are judging the importance of this issue based on HIM and not the cause itself. All he wants to do is get people to wake up and smell the coffee. WE are responsible for educating ourselves, pressuring our governments, and working out solutions. He doesn't WANT us to become yes-men that follow him around, blindly believing in whatever he thinks is the right solution. All he wants us to do is CARE (and not about HIM but about the rest of the world). If we get caught up with his credibility and bla bla bla, we've already missed this point. We're making the issue "Bono's cause" where it should be OUR RESPONSIBILITY.

Lies! Very well said my friend! This is the sole point/core that Bono is trying to get across to others. If only everyone would listen...In a perfect world. I guess.

 

[BVS]

if, furthermore, that same politician has tried to avoid paying taxes himself, it doesn't help his case at all.

But said politician still DOES pay taxes, he just made a smart business move and avoided some taxes. That said politician still probably gives more from his own wallet and time than the taxes that would have gone towards the certain cause. So really the point is moot. This paticular movement is aimed towards the average joe not having to directly take from their personal wallet. This politician is not the average joe, anyone who see this as not helping his cause doesn't have all the facts.

 

[Salome]

try to read this again and tell me that you cannot hear yourself what utter nonsense it is.

ok, I'll even read the entire quote again

the most amusing part though is that the only truly sound post in this entire thread (dazzlingamy's post) gets completely ignored by the people who are already convinced that Bono is apparently a selfish bastard (if they are not convinced of this then they are just trying to stir up something - which would be trolling - so I'm sure that can't be the case)

still sounds fine to me

 

[U2Man]

But said politician still DOES pay taxes, he just made a smart business move and avoided some taxes. That said politician still probably gives more from his own wallet and time than the taxes that would have gone towards the certain cause. So really the point is moot. This paticular movement is aimed towards the average joe not having to directly take from their personal wallet. This politician is not the average joe, anyone who see this as not helping his cause doesn't have all the facts.

but dont you think that average joe (and im not talking about average joe u2 fan) finds it hard to accept that the government spending on his education, local hospital, etc. are cut down? most people, even in the rich part of the world, already feel that they struggle to make ends meet every day. don't you think his willingness of listening to bono's message drops a bit when someone tells him that that guy has actually avoided some taxes by moving a part of his company out of his own home country?

my point is that people dont like to pay taxes, and they like it even less when they cannot see that they get any kind of return from the taxes they pay. bono is asking people to do just that (even though he shows with his own acts that he doesnt like taxes himself). politics is a game of convincing and credibility. inevitably some political opponent will bring up the issue about bono's tax avoidance, and it will sink well in among those who already have a hard time accepting this tax reallocation. i cannot see how this cannot hurt his cause in any way.