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Old 09-10-2002, 10:51 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by UltravioletU2
I disagree with your theory on marketing, whether you were a marketing assistent or not.
Well thanks but thats an Old Chinese saying (Guanxi, Art of War {I think ref 23 not too sure on this}), though I should have quoated it.


Who is saying that marketing doesnt work, it certainly does, but not so much in making a substantial sales differene in the long run.Product has to be better than the campaign.Cause one tool that runs fater than campaign is word of mouth from the active users to phase 2 users.

Now lets have a closer look at PnG
Antiperspirants
Colognes
Cosmetics
Deodrants
Hair Care
Healthcare
Householdcleaners
Laundary
Personal Cleansing
Health and Nutirtion
Skin Care
Snacks and Beverages

So whats the common thing.They are the neccessity of the customer.So brand awareness is very crucial.Customer needs to be aware of the brand and its existence.He has to buy any of the above mentioned product irrespective of the brand.Since the unit consumption is so much that margin of profict can increment very quickly, hence companies force their product onto the market.

Can same be said about music.Music is based on "taste" not the "neccessity" hence forcing music onto the customers can have a negative impact. Thus its a very delicate affair. You can have the greatest of reviews, the best of appearaces, but it has to satisfy the "taste" of the customer.Britney Spear is very popular not because she has a great marketing manager, but because she has a manager who knows whats the taste of 12-20 year olds.She is a package than say an artist.

So basically the rules of the game change 180 degrees for different product, demographic and culture.
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Old 09-10-2002, 10:55 AM   #42
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Originally posted by ishkash
One of the old marketing saying is "You can drag a horse to the lake, but you can't make him drink."

This is the most basic marketing priniciple.In my days as Asst Marketing Manager I had an oppurtunity to promote a campaign for a musical release. I can assure you even if you give out money to customers and say buy this cause I am making it look good or saying it is good, if he doesnt like it., he wont buy it.

So please forget this false notion that U2 marketed the album very well. What you people are confusing with is the oldest concpet in music. Go out to places and play your thing, if people like it they will give you money to live on and appreciation to satisfy yourself. I dont think that U2 needs much money, its more about self respect.I think they went on and played to MTV's etc not cause they wanted to sell extra copies of ATYCLB but to prove a point, a point that they as a band and their music is still relevant when they are not cool.

Although that said marketing now a days has a major role in promotion, but I am convinced that it stretch is very nominal.What I am saying is, you can have a few more people buying the record, but I dont think that anyone, I mean anyone can sell 11 millions copied just by marketing. The music has to appeal to the patrons.

Lastly ATYCLB is a GREAT album that got mass acceptance unlike say POP. If you like the fact you would be happy, if you dont like this fact well you dont have to anyways.(although I wanted to say FOAD)
Ishkash, I completely agree. I said that ATYCLB had GREAT marketing (which it did) and that ATYCLB is a GREAT album (which it is). So we agree. I do, however, stress that ATYCLB did benefit a LOT by its great marketing. What sense would it be to have great music without great marketing? None. But if I answered the question, "Would ATYCLB have won *7* grammys if it had been marketed differently?" I would probably say *maybe*, but I couldn't give a definite answer. That's the point.
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Old 09-10-2002, 11:04 AM   #43
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Originally posted by Michael Griffiths

I do, however, stress that ATYCLB did benefit a LOT by its great marketing. What sense would it be to have great music without great marketing? None. But if I answered the question, "Would ATYCLB have won *7* grammys if it had been marketed differently?" I would probably say *maybe*, but I couldn't give a definite answer. That's the point.
Exactly, marketing is about making people aware of something which exists and is consumable or usable. Irrespetive of the profession I think its not a bad exercise if followed with ethics. U2 certainly marketed and promoted ATYCLB to the ways which are a taboo if you are a rock band.It certainly worked for them.

Rush of a Blood (are you happy The Wanderer) is an exceptional album, there is no doubt about that.But I think its not fair to compare them to U2.Let them be Coldplay and they will go distance (I hope...)
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Old 09-10-2002, 11:42 AM   #44
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I'd argue that U2 have only been "cool" during the ZooTV era. The rest of the time I think they've been popular at different levels, but not "cool".

That's what I loved about ZooTV. Sure, it was all an act, and U2 were making fun of themselves, but whether or not it was an act was irrelevant. They were cool.

That's why I think it has been hard on those who joined up with U2 during the 90's (like myself) to see U2 as they have been since ATYCLB. We jumped on board when U2 was "cool", but they were putting on an act, and we didn't really realize it at the time. We just thought they had changed. In 2000 when they went back to "wearing their heart on their sleeve" as they had prior to AB, we didn't really get it.

Now, I think I can see the bigger picture. U2 never changed what they were all about, they just decided to be silly, or ironic, or whatever you want to call it, during the better part of the 90's. Make fun of themselves. Play devil's advocate for a while.

Do I want them to be "cool" right now? That's tought to say. I mean, I'd like it, because their "cool" stage is what caused me to fall in love with the band. But, I'm content with them realizing their age and moving forward with stuff like ATYCLB. I guess it would look pretty ridiculous for a band their age to be trying so hard to be "cool" again.

U2 did something brilliant starting with ATYCLB. I dare say that even ZooTV II wouldn't have done as much for them as what they did at that point. They realized their age and a new level of maturity that gained them the respect of their peers. Sure, they may come off as old or "uncool" compared to todays newer bands, but I think the past three years have pretty much sealed their status in the R&R hall of fame, and as the idols and inspiration for countless other musicians.

They may not be cool now, but what they have become is relevant.
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Old 09-10-2002, 02:16 PM   #45
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Hey how does marketing look like for music albums?

Here in Europe i don't remember much talk before ATYCLB came out. (except two reviews in local press before it came out, and commercials for BD single on MTV Europe)

IMO the reason for ATYCLB's success is partially the excellent first single and its "push" to the album, partially the more "classic" U2 sound of the album, partially all the promotion gigs and, well, its always easier to sell good if you're a big name in music.
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Old 09-11-2002, 12:54 AM   #46
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good point U2girl

I don't think the marketing strategy surrounding ATYCLB was that special or ingenious
a lot of bands try to get in the picture the way U2 did
the main difference being that other bands who do this are just starting out
bands who have been around for a while usually don't like to work that hard
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Old 09-11-2002, 03:16 PM   #47
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Well, maybe if they're "uncool" again I won't have so much trouble getting tickets for the next tour.

Ha, just kidding.

You gather a pile of people in any room, and you'll find people who love something, and others who hate it. Fine by me, I'll listen to U2 as long as they keep making new music because I love their music and it speaks to me. Music is a personal thing. If someone can get that same thrill listening to Britney Spears - hey, more power to them. Just don't play that crap in my house.

Peace
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Old 09-11-2002, 04:17 PM   #48
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need more posts

Macphisto is cooooooooooooooooooooooool !

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Old 09-11-2002, 04:52 PM   #49
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I don't care what other ppl think about U2. And in any case, comparing U2 to Coldplay, what a big puff fart. I don't listen or love U2 because they are cool or uncool. I have always had a connection with them than any other group have given me. Don't get me wrong, I love a lot of other music, but this is a more personal feel. Coldplay has not been there long enough to know what it is like to be in a group for as long as U2. When Coldplay's music grow's cold I would be glad to see them try to sell out to t get just one media personnel to give them even a second look. I've seen too many of these U2 bashers, and where are they now? Maybe that would be a great skit for VH1.
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Old 09-11-2002, 10:18 PM   #50
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Re: need more posts

Quote:
Originally posted by pinkfloyd
Macphisto is cooooooooooooooooooooooool !

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Old 09-11-2002, 10:58 PM   #51
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This guy needs help.

Quote:
[i]Originally posted by Michael Griffiths

their songs no longer invoke emotion like they may have like 10 years ago. now its all junk that is merely bla, its not terrible, but its not good.
OMC.....SOMEBODY needs to take this guys Creed CD's away.

Quote:
retire already. music is supposed to make you feel something, not just fill a void of silence. which is what their music does.

Apparently this guy simply does not have a soul, and I think he needs our prayers.

Quote:
what's even worse is that some of the U2 fans who are defending U2 (how embarrassing) are actually more ignorant than the people who hate U2!!
Am I supposed to be offended by that? HA! Hahahahhhahaahah.

I don't even know what to say.

*Tries to make sense of this guys opinion*
BRAIN: *Explodes*
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Old 09-12-2002, 07:48 AM   #52
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Whereas people who love Radiohead and Coldplay are definitely into what is considered 'cool'. I love both of those bands, mostly because it reminds me of the music I wish U2 would play.
I don't have time to properly express my thoughts on this very interesting topic that, of course, Michael Griffiths (shock ) created. However, I do want to comment on the above quote.

I enjoyed early Radiohead, but I did not buy "O.K. Computer" in '97 until AFTER everyone raved about it. Having liked earlier Radiohead, I happily bought this album and couldn't believe I hadn't bought it earlier (I guess I was too wrapped up in "Pop" at the time). I couldn't wait to hear it.

Of course, as many here know, I was horribly disappointed by it. I won't elaborate upon my views as I feel I would just be redundant and I do not wish to offend Radiohead fans. Let me just say that ss far as I'm concerned, the Radiohead I once enjoyed died in 1997.

I am not that familiar with Coldplay, but from what I have heard, they are similar to early Radiohead - far more than they are to U2. Will Coldplay ultimately go the route of Radiohead or will they turn to what I believe is the more solid writing of U2 remains to be seen.

Regardless of my personal views of these bands, I found the above comment stunning for one reason. Most people complain that ATYCLB was too mellow. They wanted harder, noisier songs. Yet, then I read the above comment. Granted, Radiohead is not exactly Adult Contemporary, but I would not call Radiohead or Coldplay (who's "Yellow" did WONDERFULLY on the AC charts in the U.S. by the way) upbeat, rocking music either.

Therefore, which is it? We can't have U2 making cerebral, drifting type of music (which they already do this on OS1) yet be hard-rocking. We can't complain about them being too AC then insist they are more like Coldplay who had one of the biggest AC hits of all time. We can't demand more upbeat tunes and then state that we want them to write like these other bands.

The contradiction is too great...
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Old 09-12-2002, 09:37 AM   #53
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Since when are Radiohead and Coldplay cool? Most people I hang out with think they're dorks. U2 are cool.
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Old 09-12-2002, 02:39 PM   #54
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Judging by the picture underneath your name, Sapphire, one might argue that Bono is the dork!

Just kidding, of course.

Shame on me for even thinking that about my favourite rock star!
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Old 09-12-2002, 04:02 PM   #55
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Lets see here. Chicago in Oct. last year was semi-cool.Las Vegas in Nov. was un-cool.St. Louie was cool and Miami in Dec. was just plain hot. I call the band stabelized.
After 22 years of listening to the band, yes, they are definately stable
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Old 09-12-2002, 11:35 PM   #56
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Re: This guy needs help.

Quote:
Originally posted by Ali Rose

OMC.....SOMEBODY needs to take this guys Creed CD's away.



Apparently this guy simply does not have a soul, and I think he needs our prayers.



Am I supposed to be offended by that? HA! Hahahahhhahaahah.

I don't even know what to say.

*Tries to make sense of this guys opinion*
BRAIN: *Explodes*
Just wanted to point out that the first quote that appears in your original post is misleading: it says "Originally Posted By Michael Griffiths," but as we know it wasn't posted by me. This quote was taken from one of the sample posts from the Coldplay forum. (Just clearing my name!)

And oh yes - no, you aren't supposed to be offended by that. Should you be? Did I call you ignorant? No - I said that some of the people defending U2 were being ignorant. And they were - check it out for yourself.
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Old 09-13-2002, 02:05 AM   #57
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Normal

Coolness is nothing but what kids want to emulate/worship/become on MTV.

Case in point:
Creed &
Linkin Park


Rocknroll doesn't mean what it used to mean anymore....





































It's sad really... about democracy... In communism, everyone's forced to be the same... In democracy, everyone WANTS to be the same.
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Old 09-13-2002, 06:44 AM   #58
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for anyone who doesn't like U2, let's see your favorite band put a 25yr. career behind them,live thru being everyone's darlings one minute(JOSHUA TREE, ACHTUNG BABY), and then getting slagged off the next(RATTLE & HUM, POP). and still carry on.
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Old 09-13-2002, 06:33 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by doctorwho

Regardless of my personal views of these bands, I found the above comment stunning for one reason. Most people complain that ATYCLB was too mellow. They wanted harder, noisier songs. Yet, then I read the above comment. Granted, Radiohead is not exactly Adult Contemporary, but I would not call Radiohead or Coldplay (who's "Yellow" did WONDERFULLY on the AC charts in the U.S. by the way) upbeat, rocking music either.

Doctorwho, I love your posts I thought you at least deserved a response.

I think what I am saying here is a personal opinion or taste.
When I hear the song Daylight by Coldplay, it moves me like the way U2 used to. There are a handful of other songs by Coldplay that do evoke those same feelings. As for Radiohead, to me they are about the only band around, that has made 'somewhat traditional rock' and is now trying push the envelope a little bit.

I was head first into ZooTV/Achtung Baby/Zooropa, and Pop to a certain extent, I love that album more now than I did in 97, but anyhow, this is the type of music I personally love, great rock bands who arent afraid to challenge their own image and 'reinvent' themselves. There arent many around who are doing it. I am talking about bands who have proven they can write he Beatlesesque stuff and now are on to experiment with different sounds.

Coldplay is much more like U2 than Radiohead, Coldplay arent pushing the envelope as much as they are writing good songs that are reminiscant of U2, when they moved me a lot more. This is just my opnion.

All in all it's just what you like, the newer Radiohead reminds me of U2 pushing boundaries in rock, and Coldplay reminds me of U2 pushing emotional music into rock. It's just my opinion, but ATYCLB was very much like 'Yellow', I liked both, but somehow I like Yellow better than probably 7 of the tracks from ATYCLB. Just a personal opinion on the music itself.

Also maybe I am not representing my opinion well when I say that Radiohead and Coldplay are "cool", perhaps I mean they are "critical darlings" and ATYCLB was recieved very well critically too, but this music lover and critic, I suppose would rather listen to Coldplay-AROBTTH or Radiohead-Kid A then ATYCLB, at least this week .

It's all about what you like and you can't change the minds of others, I think it's more positive to say what went right with something (Beautiful Day) than what went wrong (Stuck) JMO.

Cool to you is not the same to cool to me or anyone else.
The Chili Peppers, REM and U2 are probably the only remnants of rockers from the 80's still making meaningful music in the mainstream 2002. I love Depeche Mode too, but they aren't really mainstream to me. The Chili Peppers are cool, REM arent as cool as they are 'critical darlings', and U2 are somewhat of an anamoly in popular music, not necessarily cool, but powerful and meaningful, pertinent, relevant and mostly I think, they are timeless.
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Old 09-14-2002, 01:25 PM   #60
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That thing that was posted on the first page in the first post (the long thing from the Coldplay board) was so not true.

I've always thought U2 was a cool band, with great lyrics, great musicianship, great songs, and really nice, respectable men who aren't afraid to speak their minds on things.

They were cool. They are cool. And they always will be cool.

And that is that.

Angela
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