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Old 02-22-2002, 12:29 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally posted by Achtung Bubba:
<cough,cough>TROLL<cough,cough>
Sure whatever you say...

I've been here longer then some people on this message board and posted on some threads throughout the year. I gave legitmate counter points and opinions. I'm a fan of U2 and haven't bashed U2 except point out some inconsistencies/ double standards in some arguments by using U2 to make it hit closer to home.

I can't help it if some U2 fans have an insane hatred for Creed and that I chose to side with the Creed. Also I've tried to avoid "post and not answer situations" by answering back as soon as I could. Finally I try to be respectful and debate some on a message board. If people can't take it, oh well.

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[This message has been edited by Flying FuManchu (edited 02-21-2002).]
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Old 02-22-2002, 12:35 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally posted by Johnny Swallow:
That was totally not cool, to say Poison and Soundgarden are similar in anyway is just wrong. I'm going to dry heave now.

It was just an analogy with respects to there position in music at their specific time periods. You can stop dry heaving. At least I didn't tell you to buy Poison albums and meditate on them...


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~ "You can't resist her. She's in your bones. She is your marrow and your ride home. You can't avoid her. She's in the air; in between molecules of oxygen and carbon dioxide." ~ RC
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Old 02-22-2002, 12:39 AM   #103
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Se7en has got the plot.

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Old 02-22-2002, 12:41 AM   #104
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I'm pretty sure Flying FuManchu is just teasing y'all. No one can seriously write setences like, "let the power of Stapp's brilliance burst through your soul..."

MAP

p.s.- when 99% of the critics and nearly every single serious music fan agree that a band sucks, they probably suck. When a person defending said sucky band makes positive references to POISON...well. Make of it what you will.
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Old 02-22-2002, 12:48 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally posted by gherman:
The song and mostly the lyrics from "Higher" is ripped off from a U2 song on the Joshua Tree. You can figure it out.
LOL... which one? Not that I find a person that has a psychotic hatred of Scott Stapp to be a credible source...

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~ "You can't resist her. She's in your bones. She is your marrow and your ride home. You can't avoid her. She's in the air; in between molecules of oxygen and carbon dioxide." ~ RC

[This message has been edited by Flying FuManchu (edited 02-21-2002).]
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Old 02-22-2002, 12:58 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally posted by Matthew_Page2000:
I'm pretty sure Flying FuManchu is just teasing y'all. No one can seriously write sentences like, "let the power of Stapp's brilliance burst through your soul..."

MAP

I assure you that 98-99% of what I wrote is true and serious. Besides, if you've read some of the threads about U2 on this forum, people have made some "funnier" statements...

Quote:
p.s.- when 99% of the critics and nearly every single serious music fan agree that a band sucks, they probably suck. When a person defending said sucky band makes positive references to POISON...well. Make of it what you will.
LOL... I give you Pop... great record but bashed by most critics these days. Led Zeppelin and Kiss... bashed by most critics of their time yet considered highly influential now. I can't comprehend what a "serious music fan would be."

Besides I'm filled with positivity and if I insulted your sensibilites by being positive about Poison, I apologize. Poison has its place though in music.

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~ "You can't resist her. She's in your bones. She is your marrow and your ride home. You can't avoid her. She's in the air; in between molecules of oxygen and carbon dioxide." ~ RC



[This message has been edited by Flying FuManchu (edited 02-21-2002).]
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Old 02-22-2002, 01:01 AM   #107
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Well soundgarden may have gotten huge after Nirvana and Pearl Jam, but they had more credibility than either one. They were around before Nirvana and PJ and were not some kind of band that rode the coattails of Seattle's success. *coughBUSHcough*

Soundgarden were true pioneers and were bigger than the trends that were around them.

Therefore I think they have NOTHING in common with posion. Posion was pure gloss schlock rock.
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Old 02-22-2002, 01:14 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally posted by Johnny Swallow:
Well soundgarden may have gotten huge after Nirvana and Pearl Jam, but they had more credibility than either one. They were around before Nirvana and PJ and were not some kind of band that rode the coattails of Seattle's success. *coughBUSHcough*

Soundgarden were true pioneers and were bigger than the trends that were around them.

Therefore I think they have NOTHING in common with posion. Posion was pure gloss schlock rock.
How about this... Motley Crue was the Nirvana of glam metal... then came Bon jovi becoming the Pearl Jam of glam metal... then came Poison, the Soundgarden of glam... Poison and Motley Crue were around at the same time before Bon Jovi came out... Nirvana and Soundgarden were around at the same time too, then came Pearl Jam... Imperfect but pretty close. Something I used to make a point for another post. It dealt with their importance in a movement in relation to the time they were around. Just an analogy.


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~ "You can't resist her. She's in your bones. She is your marrow and your ride home. You can't avoid her. She's in the air; in between molecules of oxygen and carbon dioxide." ~ RC

[This message has been edited by Flying FuManchu (edited 02-21-2002).]
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Old 02-22-2002, 01:22 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flying FuManchu:
How about this... Motley Crue was the Nirvana of glam metal... then came Bon jovi becoming the Pearl Jam of glam metal... then came Poison, the Soundgarden of glam... Poison and Motley Crue were around at the same time before Bon Jovi came out... Nirvana and Soundgarden were around at the same time too, then came Pearl Jam... Imperfect but pretty close. Something I used to make a point for another post. It dealt with their importance in a movement in relation to the time they were around. Just an analogy.

Just replace Soundgarden with Bush and I'll be happy.

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Old 02-22-2002, 01:24 AM   #110
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...but Kiss does suck.

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And as the book says, "we may be through with the past, but the past ain't through with us."
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Old 02-22-2002, 02:10 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike P:
Now, to me, that's a great example of what Creed IS good at. That song, "arms wide open," had been available on the album for more than a year, and nobody cared. Then it was a single for 2 months, and nobody cared (it languished in the #30's, chart position). Then Scott Stapp came on TRL and said that it was a song he wrote for his unborn son. All of a sudden, the song starts climbing the charts.
I see you're a fan of TRL too...

Quote:
That song was popular not because it was good(there was ample time for people who liked it for the music to buy it, but that didn't happen), but because it was CUTE, and sentimental. So let's not confuse writing good songs with writing bad songs about heart-wrenching topics. That seems to be a Creed specialty.
So if a song is cute and sentimental then it can't be good as well?

ATYCLB languished in the bottom hundred in the Billboard charts recently but made a big jump in sales b/c of their Superbowl performance... hmmmm... similar circumstances it seems. /you can take it for what it is. I guess promotion and in Creed's case helping people out with the meaning of a song makes a song bad.

Quote:
I still hold out hope for Creed. They've got great promise. When Stapp figures out who he really is, and Tremonti buys a few new effects pedals, they could be amazing. So far, they're just average rockers with great timing.

-Mike
At least you are more positive then some of the people here. May Creed meet your expectaions...


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~ "You can't resist her. She's in your bones. She is your marrow and your ride home. You can't avoid her. She's in the air; in between molecules of oxygen and carbon dioxide." ~ RC
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Old 02-22-2002, 02:11 AM   #112
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FuManchu, you certainly are persistant.
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Old 02-22-2002, 02:28 AM   #113
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Quote:
Actually the similarities are rather striking.
Both came on the scene late in a musical era...Poison in the 80's "metal" scene, Creed in the 90's "grunge" scene.
Wrong. Creed did not "arrive" late into grunge. Grunge was already dead by then and TRL/ MTV Live with Mariah/ Spice Girls all the time was the dominant music.

Quote:
Both are scene as being unoriginal and "borrowing" their look and sound from others...Poison "borrowing" from Motley Crue, Bon Jovi et al...Creed "borrowing" from Pearl Jam, Alice in Chains et al.
I've already dealt with "borrowing in prior posts. Poison however is considered somewhat of a contemporary with Bon Jovi and Motley Crue. They did tour together. Some might say that Poison was the premeire band of the glam/metal era.

On a side note, Creed doesn't dress like grunge musicians of the Seattle scene. Check your Rolling Stone...

There is nothing really wrong either with wearing what is fashionable. Didn't U2 dress like techno/dance hipsters during the Pop era? Watch "Discotheque." Ignore the Village People get up.

Quote:
Both are seen by most experts as not having tremendous musical talents, save for the guitarist getting some respect.
Same could be said of U2 back in the day...

Quote:
Both singers are known as unoriginal posers in concert....Bret Michaels with his David Lee Roth-esque showman wannabe...Stapp with his Bono-esque Jesus wannabe.
Well we know how important orignal posing is...

Quote:
Poison sold many millions between 1987 and 1992, as Creed is doing now. You have difficulty finding a lot of people who admit to buying Poison albums now however...I predict Creed will suffer the same fate.

There's a lack of substance to both. "With Arms Wide Open" will get as much airplay in 2010 as "Talk Dirty to Me" does today.
Its your opinions, and you're entitled to think them. However "Higher" and "Arms Wide Open" are going to be radio classics IMO. Creed fans aren't the same as Poison fans... and to generalize them as being the same is ridiculous.


------------------
~ "You can't resist her. She's in your bones. She is your marrow and your ride home. You can't avoid her. She's in the air; in between molecules of oxygen and carbon dioxide." ~ RC

[This message has been edited by Flying FuManchu (edited 02-21-2002).]
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Old 02-22-2002, 02:35 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally posted by Johnny Swallow:
FuManchu, you certainly are persistant.
I try... plus a little bored today...



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~ "You can't resist her. She's in your bones. She is your marrow and your ride home. You can't avoid her. She's in the air; in between molecules of oxygen and carbon dioxide." ~ RC
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Old 02-22-2002, 02:44 AM   #115
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Let people listen to what they want.

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Old 02-22-2002, 02:46 AM   #116
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Manchu,
ATYCLB was not languishing in the bottom 100 on the charts before the Super Bowl. It was at #66 after having been out for nearly a year and a half. The last time ATYCLB was ranked lower than #100 was back in the summer of 2001 and then only for 4 weeks. 64 of the past 68 weeks have been in the top 100.
I don't think Creed is bad. I kind of like them because as I said before, they are a grade C/B Pearl Jam. I don't consider that an insult or a put down. They have not put out a true classic yet. Maybe if they are still together for a 4th or 5th album will see one. With Arms.... was very close. "Higher" reminds me of Damn Yankees "Higher" a little. Both ok songs, but I thought Creed could do much better than that. While Creed is doing well in the USA, they better watch out for Nickelback. They are coming on strong with their first major release and have actually penetrated the much larger international market which Creed has failed to do in 3 albums. Most people in the UK still don't know who Creed is.
In concert business terms, Creed has a long way to go. A concert in Philadelphia recently failed to sellout. This is surprising given the bands huge sales in the USA and rather low ticket price for an Arena show. The Concert road is where you find how strong your popularity really is. But its an incredibly difficult business and some bands get crushed by it. The International scene is even more difficult and compared to the USA, Creed is struggling out there.
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Old 02-22-2002, 05:49 AM   #117
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Am I the only one who finds this smacks more than a little bit of the thirteen year old girl determinedly insisting that Britney Spears is, in fact, an earth shatteringly talented musician with incredibly deep lytics who will always be relevant and never go out of fashion?

"I watch TRL to feel the pulse of today's music." Kiss and Poison are "influential". Riiiiiight. That's just flat out sad. I guess it goes to show the heart of the problem, though.

And just to save the trouble of yet another canned response, I'll do it for you. I should listen to Creed with an open mind, so that I can...
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Old 02-22-2002, 07:16 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flying FuManchu:

Poison's first album came out in '86 while the Crue came out in '83. The Crue's first real popular album came out in '86. They were peers in the '80s.
Actually Motley crue's Debut, Too fast For Love, was released in 1981...and Shout at the Devil was extremely popular when released in 1983 (I was well beyond junior high at the time and remember it well). So the timeline is quite comparable...Crue 1981, Poison 1986...Pearl Jam 1991, Creed 1997.
At the time Poison were labelled by many as "Motley Crue rip offs"...just as Creed when they debuted were termed "Pearl jam rip offs".

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Old 02-22-2002, 07:27 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flying FuManchu:
Poison and Motley Crue were around at the same time before Bon Jovi came out...

You are completely wrong abouut your timeline...that's the point I'm getting at.
Poison came about when Motley Crue and Bon Jovi were at the top of the hard rock world...they let someone else set a trend and road its coat tails...much like Creed in the 90's.
At the time of Poison's debut, Bon Jovi's 3rd album, "Slippery When Wet" was at the top of the charts, Poison did not come before Bon Jovi.


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Old 02-22-2002, 08:27 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flying FuManchu:
LOL... I give you Pop... great record but bashed by most critics these days.

When PoP first came out, it was highly acclaimed and hit #1 in 33 countries selling over 1 million copies in it's first week. It wasn't until the sales fell off that bad publicity came in, and critics suddenly changed their mind about it. Rolling Stone stated in their review: "they've defied the odds and made some of the greatest music of their lives. Pretty heroic stuff, come to think of it."~Rolling Stone Issue#?-march 20, 1997 also Propaganda issue #26


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