Constant Bashing of Americans

[Niceman]

I think its interresting that voting is mandatory in Australia. My Mother is actually from Australia and I went to school in Manly for a year when I was 9.

I don't know if that is better or worse...

I seem to remember that in Oz you also get to put down your second choice? Is that right? Which lets third and fourth parties exist. We don't have that in America. If we did, then Bush wouldn't have got into office 4 years ago!

 

[beli]

If someone doesn't feel politically salient enough to vote, I say God bless 'em. Vote if you want to, I say. But if you don't vote, you can't bitch, IMO.

But many other nations (with non compulsory voting) have a much higher voter turn out than the USA. Why are 40% of the USA not interested in voting? I actually find that sad.

 

[Reggie Thee Dog]

Reggie, you do know that kinda overly patriotic talk is the single biggest cause of "American bashing"?

I have nothing bad to say about Australia, England, France, Iraq, Iran, Russia, China, Japan, or any other country, nation or continent. However I do love the country I was born and raised in. I will not preach to you or tell you to follow any US doctrine. Sure we have our problems, and we may not all endorse our leader(s), but to bash me because I am patriotic...please give me the reason why this is so bad?

 

[Miggy D]

The democratic party needs to make a few changes:

Never seat Michael Moore next to a former U.S. president during a DNC ever, ever again.

Nominate more moderate candidates.

Grow a damned spine, and don't let the Republican party walk all over you.

The party really is in a horrible, horrible state of affairs.

 

[Miggy D]

But many other nations (with non compulsory voting) have a much higher voter turn out than the USA. Why are 40% of the USA not interested in voting? I actually find that sad.

If you have anything for a long enough period of time, you take it for granted. If The US were formed 10 years ago, the voter turnout would probably be between 90 and 100 percent. Voting has been around for so long here, though, that a lot of people just see it as a luxury they can ignore. It's sad, because a lot of countries don't have the ability to vote in democratic elections. I think that everyone should read up on politics, and vote in every election. (But this is coming from a guy who has CNN.com set as his homepage, and watches the major news channels a couple hours a day...)

 

[beli]

I seem to remember that in Oz you also get to put down your second choice? Is that right? Which lets third and fourth parties exist. We don't have that in America. If we did, then Bush wouldn't have got into office 4 years ago!

Preferential voting yes. You can either vote 1 or number them. In the recent election we had 40 boxes on the senate ballot

 

[pwmartin]

Getting upset about low voter turnout in a staunchly democratic country is useless.

In a democracy, voting is a right, not a duty. If people don't turn up to vote, then they are basically saying that they are OK with the way things are. When the turnout is high, then things must be topsy-turvy. The system works. Calm down.

 

[indra]

The democratic party needs to make a few changes:


Nominate more moderate candidates.

Oh dear god, do they get more moderate than Kerry? I'm sorry but Kerry is not a liberal at all -- move much more to the right and you might as well not even bother.

 

[beli]

I have nothing bad to say about Australia, England, France, Iraq, Iran, Russia, China, Japan, or any other country, nation or continent. However I do love the country I was born and raised in. I will not preach to you or tell you to follow any US doctrine. Sure we have our problems, and we may not all endorse our leader(s), but to bash me because I am patriotic...please give me the reason why this is so bad?

I wasnt bashing you. My apologies if thats the way it came across. I dont know that I can explain the overly patriotic image the USA projects here. I have nothing against patrotism and being thankful for living in a free country where most of the citizens are fed and watered. Im proud of that myself in my own country. Its the jingoism that is distasteful. And the USA is internationally infamous for it.

Whether its an accurate reflection of each individual person in the USA I dont know.

 

[bcrt2000]

If you have anything for a long enough period of time, you take it for granted. If The US were formed 10 years ago, the voter turnout would probably be between 90 and 100 percent. Voting has been around for so long here, though, that a lot of people just see it as a luxury they can ignore. It's sad, because a lot of countries don't have the ability to vote in democratic elections. I think that everyone should read up on politics, and vote in every election. (But this is coming from a guy who has CNN.com set as his homepage, and watches the major news channels a couple hours a day...)

yeah, i think you need to look at some alternative/independent news sources ...

 

[pwmartin]

My impression of Aussies, internationally, is much the same as yours of Americans. There are just more of us, so it seems worse. Aussies are known to swagger at times, to tell you the truth, beli.

 

[Miggy D]

Oh dear god, do they get more moderate than Kerry? I'm sorry but Kerry is not a liberal at all -- move much more to the right and you might as well not even bother.

Well, he was actually quite liberal in terms of a good portion of the US. He ran a really crappy campaign, which no doubt hurt him, but he was fairly liberal, in terms of his voting record. He ran himself a moderate with 'conservative values' or whatever it was he told whoever he talked to at any particular time. When Howard Dean is a front runner in a primary, you know the Democratic Party needs to re-adjust and start running some more moderate candidates. There are no doubt far-left Dems out there who would disagree, but especially in a time of war, they've gotta run someone more to the center if they want to get one of their guys in head office.

-Miggy D

 

[Niceman]

I don't think that the problem is our candidates not being moderate. I think that that is very wrong. Our candidates are TOO moderate.

But what is keeping them from being elected is their not being personable enough. We need to elect people that joe six pack would want to have a beer with, people more comfortable in their skin. THAT is the real problem imho.

 

[pwmartin]

What bothers me about this talk about "who the Dems need to run" is that it focuses less on having a vision of leadership for the country and more on just getting elected for elected's sake. It's like: "let's run someone just to get them in there and THEN we'll figure out where they'll take the country."

 

[Miggy D]

yeah, i think you need to look at some alternative/independent news sources ...

Sheesh, now political saliency isn't good enough!

(I do read Salon.com quite often...that's fairly alternative.)

I'm a fairly mainstream guy though. I don't want to overthrow the U.S. and start a socialist regime, or live in the country off vegetables and communes. I think our country's got its share of problems, but I think our system is working fairly well, in the overall scheme of things, and any problems will eventually sort themselves out. In terms of civil rights, America has come a long way in a fairly short period of time. In about 50 years time, things will be a lot different than they are today. Look to the 1950s for evidence.

 

[melon]

The democratic party needs to make a few changes:

Never seat Michael Moore next to a former U.S. president during a DNC ever, ever again.

Nominate more moderate candidates.

Grow a damned spine, and don't let the Republican party walk all over you.

The party really is in a horrible, horrible state of affairs.

1) Michael Moore is, indeed, part of the problem. Take him and Ralph Nader and the rest of the hippies and send them out to pasture. The 1960s are dead.

2) No. No more "moderate" candidates. No more "liberal" candidates. No more "conservative" candidates. We need a candidate who has truly new ideas, not just ones that the GOP brings up or the ones that hit the nightly news. I'd like to think I've got some good ideas for them; now I just need to find a way to get them to listen to what I've got to say.

Melon

 

[melon]

What bothers me about this talk about "who the Dems need to run" is that it focuses less on having a vision of leadership for the country and more on just getting elected for elected's sake. It's like: "let's run someone just to get them in there and THEN we'll figure out where they'll take the country."

EXACTLY. The Democratic Party hasn't had a new idea since 1964. Let's face it.

Melon

 

[indra]

I wasnt bashing you. My apologies if thats the way it came across. I dont know that I can explain the overly patriotic image the USA projects here. I have nothing against patrotism and being thankful for living in a free country where most of the citizens are fed and watered. Im proud of that myself in my own country. Its the jingoism that is distasteful. And the USA is internationally infamous for it.

Whether its an accurate reflection of each individual person in the USA I dont know.

You know I've have several people from other countries tell me "well you're not at all bad. You're an American?" And I was just being my normal, cranky, bitchy self, too! My point is though, that I'm more apt to be able to change some people's perception of US citizens by being myself than I am by getting defensive about their misperceptions of me and many others. Can I change the way the world views the people in my country? No. But I may be able to change the way a few people view me as a citizen of this country, and those people may, in turn, realize that if this person isn't what they expected, perhaps others aren't either.

Of course, there are still many complete assholes in the US and they make it harder for everyone else, because, face it, a bad experience is remembered a very long time.

 

[Miggy D]

1) Michael Moore is, indeed, part of the problem. Take him and Ralph Nader and the rest of the hippies and send them out to pasture. The 1960s are dead.

2) No. No more "moderate" candidates. No more "liberal" candidates. No more "conservative" candidates. We need a candidate who has truly new ideas, not just ones that the GOP brings up or the ones that hit the nightly news. I'd like to think I've got some good ideas for them; now I just need to find a way to get them to listen to what I've got to say.

Melon

Good point....but 'good' is such a subjective term. Some people think it's a 'good idea' to ban gay marriage. Others think socialism is a 'good idea.' What is good? What is bad? I think more often than not it's in the eye of the beholder. That's why a statement such as 'run a moderate candidate' is more reasonable, more concrete, because 'moderate' is clearly defined in today's political environment.

-Miggy

 

[beli]

My impression of Aussies, internationally, is much the same as yours of Americans. There are just more of us, so it seems worse. Aussies are known to swagger at times, to tell you the truth, beli.

lol. I have no idea what "swagger" means in this context. Are you saying Aussies can be rude, arrogant, sport obsessed alcholics? Yes, I would agree with that statement. I dont like the image Australia has overseas. I havent mentioned it thus far cause it wasnt the purpose of the thread and I dont think many people care about Australia one way or the other. But yes, our image is not good.

 

[pwmartin]

There is traditionally tension between Aussies and Americans, at least on this level. I think it's another case of "tall poppy syndrome," which is harmless. Deep down, we're all OK with each other.

 

[Miggy D]

I care about Australia. 'Outback Steakhouse' is one of my favorite restaurants! And y'all have such cute animals. The kangaroo? The kooala? The wallabi? And you're right next to New Zealand, where Lord of the Rings was filmed! Australia fuckin' kicks ass! And your toilets flush in the opposite direction of ours! Rock on, Australia!

 

[brownda7]

Lets just make it totally clear once and for all, that the simpsons portrayal of australia is absolutley true.




"i can see you've played knifey-spoony before"

 

[beli]

There is traditionally tension between Aussies and Americans, at least on this level. I think it's another case of "tall poppy syndrome," which is harmless. Deep down, we're all OK with each other.

Really? I dont percieve this. Well I perceive Australians having a "tension" with the USA but not the other way around. Im suprised the USA even cares about us. I know "they" have a bit lately because our ciurrent leader crawled up your leaders butt and died but normally I didnt think we are at all relevant. Christ, I can remember having to explain to USA people that we speak English here as the knowledge of this place was non existent.

 

[beli]

And you're right next to New Zealand, where Lord of the Rings was filmed! Australia fuckin' kicks ass! And your toilets flush in the opposite direction of ours! Rock on, Australia!

My husbands cousin played Orc No 3132645641321 in Lord of the Rings. You can touch me if you like

 

[pwmartin]

I think I'm speaking from personal experiences with Aussies and Americans in places outside the US where we rub elbows. And the competition and showmanship during the Olympics is always intriguing.

 

[Miggy D]

Any country founded by criminals has GOT to rock.

 

[melon]

Good point....but 'good' is such a subjective term. Some people think it's a 'good idea' to ban gay marriage. Others think socialism is a 'good idea.' What is good? What is bad? I think more often than not it's in the eye of the beholder. That's why a statement such as 'run a moderate candidate' is more reasonable, more concrete, because 'moderate' is clearly defined in today's political environment.

"Moderate" candidates are why I will be moving to Canada. As Harry Truman said, if people are to choose between a Republican and a Republican, they'll vote for the Republican every time.

I actually wrote a seven page letter on this subject after the election, but I held off sending it to the Democratic Party, as I wanted to see how things looked after all the madness died down. In short, I accented their problem of having no original ideas. I wrote about how they need to embrace the vastly untapped and unorganized "Religious Left" in this nation. I wrote about certain economic issues that they have flat out ignored over the past 20 years. I wrote about how they can appear "family-friendly" without denigrating into GOP-style bigotry. In short, we need to redefine what "Democrat" means, just as it was redefined in 1933 and 1961, while becoming "quasi-Republican" in 1993. FDR and JFK are long dead, but what do we have to show for in the present?

Melon

 

[indra]

My impression of Aussies, internationally, is much the same as yours of Americans. There are just more of us, so it seems worse. Aussies are known to swagger at times, to tell you the truth, beli.

But it's a fun swagger! Seriously, fun seems to be more the rule in OZ than here.

There seems to be a bit of a tough element though...I remember hearing an interview with members of The Church (trying to clear the room here ), when someone asked if they were worried about tought US crowds and one of them said "Nah, we've been beaten up by the best of 'em when we play throughout the Australian countryside" (and The Church are the infamous, lovers, not fighters element of OZ).

 

[Miggy D]

You can touch me if you like

That can be taken so, so very wrong.

But I'm going to keep my mind clean.

::touches beli::

I feel...so much closer to you now.

We've bonded.

You're invited to my Christmas party.

BFF! 143!

-Miggy D