Can someone please.....

[twochordcool]

Re: Re: Re: Can someone please.....

See, I'm not even so sure about that. There may be some albums from the 80s that could be considered eons better than ATYCLB and HTDAAB, but there are quite a few that can't. I know this is just based on personal taste, but I'd take HTDAAB over Boy, October, and Rattle & Hum any day. Maybe even over certain JT songs (I seem to be one of the few people who find a lot of the JT material to be rather bland.) Now of course, War, UF, and certain aspects of JT piss all over HTDAAB and ATYCLB. ATYCLB in particular. But I still wouldn't say that the 80s were tremendously stronger than the 00s. I feel that they're only marginally better.

When are you people just going to realize and accept the fact that the QUALITY *IS* AND ALWAYS *WAS* there - 80's, 90's and now - it all just sounds different. There really is no U2 album I would be willing to do without.

War was nothing like Unforgettable Fire, but it was GREAT!

Unforgettable Fire was nothing like Joshua Tree, but it was GREAT!

Joshua Tree was nothing like Achtung Baby, but it was GREAT!

Achtung Baby was nothing like ATYCLB, but it was GREAT!

And ATYCLB and HTDAAB, perhaps are similar AND GREAT, but they are nothing like Achtung Baby!

And by the way, THERE IS NOTHING that can be criticised on Joshua Tree - NOTHING! The non-hits and non-singles were better than the hits and singles - and even they were great! It's just an all around flawless album.

 

[Bono's shades]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Can someone please.....

When are you people just going to realize and accept the fact that the QUALITY *IS* AND ALWAYS *WAS* there - 80's, 90's and now - it all just sounds different. There really is no U2 album I would be willing to do without.

Well, I'm sure it's lovely for you that you love every single U2 album passionately. I wish I could say the same, but I can't.

As for those of us who don't worship ever single bit of music U2 has ever produced, why should we "accept" anything, as if it's some kind of provable fact that the quality has always been there? You can't prove it, so quit acting like you can.

 

[GibsonGirl]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Can someone please.....

And by the way, THERE IS NOTHING that can be criticised on Joshua Tree - NOTHING! The non-hits and non-singles were better than the hits and singles - and even they were great! It's just an all around flawless album.

Oh, really? I think I could name a few flaws.

 

[indra]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Can someone please.....

And by the way, THERE IS NOTHING that can be criticised on Joshua Tree - NOTHING! The non-hits and non-singles were better than the hits and singles - and even they were great! It's just an all around flawless album.

I like JT. Quite a lot. But I only really listen to about half of it most of the time. Some of it is just a little too overwrought for me to take (of course, some of those are other people's faves and that's fine with me). And I'm one who tends to listen to albums all the way through.

 

[indra]

Because it's a very quiet week at work and I get bored easily.

I love you!

That's one of the best responses ever.

 

[U2DMfan]

What's there to talk about with people so heavily biased, so tightly cuddled up with their pre-conceived notions and so pathologically unable to have a discussion without putting down the 00's or its fans and constantly preaching their opinions as facts, be it album polls, be it Top 20s, be it album/music discussions.

There is a hell of a lot of 90's bashing that goes on around here, as well. You can hardly find a retrospective thread around here without some bashing of one 'era' or another.

The problem is those who can't be objective about it, at all.
Any side of the discussions.

I know some people go out of their way to be objective on this forum, but after reading crap opinion after crap opinion, sometimes the only response becomes a crap opinion. People stating opinions as fact, time after time, it only elicits more opinions that are stated as facts to the contrary. Even by people who wouldn't ordinarily do it.

We've got a lot of good posters around here, able and ready for good constructive dialgoue, and ultimately it will always devolve into a meaningless thread because of the unobjective fly-by posters. Good ideas and discussions WILL become a debate about what U2 are doing and what they used to do, almost with certainty. The people around here are still largely interested by the music, I don't think any musical discussion should be off limits, bashers or not.

So the way it is, you get what we get, album polls, silly games, top 20 lists etc. etc. There aren't many people left to want to talk about music and ideas. Too many easily offended, too many easily motivated to slam down opinions, after all some of them ARE crap. If I felt like this forum was more conducive to great discussion, sometimes very critical, then I'd try and start things up. As it is, I don't feel the need to make a bunch of oversensitive people cry.

At some point you just gotta hope it's somewhat entertaining or else it's a total waste of time. I still like the board, but I feel like it's been dumbed down by the easily offended. It is just an opinion board for some (often) mindless entertainment and other times creative and contructive entertainment, which should at least remain critical. The day this forum becomes a majority of sunshine pumping lemmings is the day I am gone.

 

[LMP]

Achtung Baby has its flaws and so does The Joshua Tree

to name 1 on JT, it's the sound of the mixing of Exit, I can barely hear the beginning then it gets louder. That's just a technical gripe

but I don't like Trip Through Your Wires much, and think Heartland would've been a much greater song on JT and Trip on RaH

and with Achtung, Love is Blindness is not that special on the album, but is a great song live for me, plus the mixing of Who's Gonna Ride Your Wild Horses isn't that great either, it sounds worn out if you know what I mean

every album has its flaws no matter what, nothing is ever perfect

 

[twochordcool]

Achtung Baby has its flaws and so does The Joshua Tree

to name 1 on JT, it's the sound of the mixing of Exit, I can barely hear the beginning then it gets louder. That's just a technical gripe

but I don't like Trip Through Your Wires much, and think Heartland would've been a much greater song on JT and Trip on RaH

and with Achtung, Love is Blindness is not that special on the album, but is a great song live for me, plus the mixing of Who's Gonna Ride Your Wild Horses isn't that great either, it sounds worn out if you know what I mean

every album has its flaws no matter what, nothing is ever perfect

1) It was the intention that Exit started out quiet and then got progressively louder - it's a very moody and emotional song - from calm to intensity...

and the proof is that it DOES get very loud and THEN goes back to being calm and quiet -

and THEN it rocks again!

There is a purpose to this and it works VERY well.

2) Trip Through Your Wires is a fucking PHENOMENAL song - loads of rocking energy in a "feel good" kind of way!

3) Love Is Blindness is a GORGEOUS fucking song.

4) Who's Gonna Ride Your Wild Horses is an AMAZING song!

THAT IS WHAT I MEAN ABOUT A LOT OF YOU PEOPLE - HOW CAN YOU COME HERE AS U2 FANS AND CRITICISE SONGS LIKE THESE?!

FUCKING ABSURD!!

PLEASE, stop the madness or restrict me from here because I WON'T sit back and not comment on statements like these - and you won't like how I come to their defense!

 

[LMP]

I never said I didn't like these songs, I love Exit on the album and live, and LiB live, and Trip is a fun song, and The Temple Bar Mix of Wild Horses is one of my favorite songs ever

I love the band and their work a lot, but I can have my gripes about technical stuff and whatnot and still love the song, or not like some songs as much as others.

It's not like I'm someone who goes around trashing the band left and right

 

[twochordcool]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Can someone please.....

I like JT. Quite a lot. But I only really listen to about half of it most of the time. Some of it is just a little too overwrought for me to take (of course, some of those are other people's faves and that's fine with me). And I'm one who tends to listen to albums all the way through.

Overwrought?

I think that is what makes music and art successful - if it DOES makes you FEEL something.

Me personally, I usually begin with Running To Stand Still because I hear the first 3 songs on the radio quite a lot, and to me, they can get played out!

But that doesn't make them bad songs at all!

Personally, I think the album goes uphill after those first 3 songs - I think the best songs on that CD are the not-so-obvious songs that are never on the radio!

What are you faves?

Which can you do without?!

 

[LMP]

My Faves on JT:

I Still Haven't Found...
Streets
With or Without You
Running to Stand Still
One Tree Hill
Exit
Red Hill Mining Town

the rest I think are good and listenable when I feel like it, the only one I skip over alot is 'Trip'

 

[twochordcool]

See! Now I think that "In God's Country", "Trip Through Your Wire" and "Bullet The Blue Sky" are EASILY equally as strong!

And that would just about complete the CD!

 

[LMP]

Bullet is amazing on the ZooTV and PopMart tours for me, and pretty good on Elevation and JT/Lovetown

but on the album, it's just average

 

[twochordcool]

Bullet is amazing on the ZooTV and PopMart tours for me, and pretty good on Elevation and JT/Lovetown

but on the album, it's just average

I know what you mean - it's a song that goes down remarkably well live.

But it would have to be a pretty damn good song to begin with to have it come off so well live!

Agreed?

 

[Zoots]

THAT IS WHAT I MEAN ABOUT A LOT OF YOU PEOPLE - HOW CAN YOU COME HERE AS U2 FANS AND CRITICISE SONGS LIKE THESE?!

FUCKING ABSURD!!

PLEASE, stop the madness or restrict me from here because I WON'T sit back and not comment on statements like these - and you won't like how I come to their defense!

Look! Anybody can say anything they want as long as it pertains to the discussion at hand. Somebody could come in here and say Achtung Baby is the worst album ever by any band. Or somebody else could say that about HTDAAB. Doesn't matter. They're called opinions. And if you disagree, you can discuss against it in a civilized manner... or leave! Ignore the particular comment. On the other hand, if you continue with posts like the one I just quoted, you may end up crossing the line into the name-calling area. Why are you dictating what people should like??? That's what I don't understand.

 

[indra]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Can someone please.....

What are you faves?

Which can you do without?!

I'll have to give it a listen and let you know.

Going out now, but I'll do it later today.

 

[LMP]

I know what you mean - it's a song that goes down remarkably well live.

But it would have to be a pretty damn good song to begin with to have it come off so well live!

Agreed?

not particularly, Dirty Day sounds pretty bad on the album but takes off live and in its subsequent remixes

and Bullet...I don't know, it just sounds bottled on the album, the intensity is there but it doesn't take off

 

[GibsonGirl]

Look! Anybody can say anything they want as long as it pertains to the discussion at hand. Somebody could come in here and say Achtung Baby is the worst album ever by any band. Or somebody else could say that about HTDAAB. Doesn't matter. They're called opinions. And if you disagree, you can discuss against it in a civilized manner... or leave! Ignore the particular comment. On the other hand, if you continue with posts like the one I just quoted, you may end up crossing the line into the name-calling area. Why are you dictating what people should like??? That's what I don't understand.

I really don't like Mothers Of The Disappeared. I really don't like Babyface. I really don't like If God Will Send His Angels. I can't listen to half of ATYCLB. And I'm allowed to. If everyone in this forum liked every single U2 song equally and never had the guts to say that they hate some of them, this would be a pretty boring place.

I think U2 probably don't like needless brown-nosing. Even Bono didn't like The Joshua Tree all that much, and he's the biggest U2 hype machine around.

 

[U2girl]

Look! Anybody can say anything they want as long as it pertains to the discussion at hand. Somebody could come in here and say Achtung Baby is the worst album ever by any band. Or somebody else could say that about HTDAAB. Doesn't matter. They're called opinions. And if you disagree, you can discuss against it in a civilized manner.

I'll remember that the next time Axver gets "dissussed with in a civilized manner" for not liking AB or Mr Brau is flooded by a "civilized discussion" for not liking Pop.

I also think the vast majority of comments on the last two albums are about as far away from "civilized discussion" as possible. Far worse than anyone from the "other side" ever comes up with.

 

[Zoots]

I'll remember that the next time Axver gets "dissussed with in a civilized manner" for not liking AB or Mr Brau is flooded by a "civilized discussion" for not liking Pop.

I also think the vast majority of comments on the last two albums are about as far away from "civilized discussion" as possible. Far worse than anyone from the "other side" ever comes up with.

whatever!

I never resort to name-calling or putting down the other person for not liking the 90s.. though! I simply state my opinion on why I think that everything that came before the last 2 albums is better than the last 2 albums.

 

[LMP]

whatever!

I never resort to name-calling or putting down the other person for not liking the 90s.. though! I simply state my opinion on why I think that everything that came before the last 2 albums is better than the last 2 albums.

and that's exactly the civil and polite thing to do.

If you like X more than Y, or can't stand X but love Y, that's great, and your opinion and stuff, just don't think everyone else agrees with you or SHOULD agree with you

or degrade anyone else for not being like you, which is shown too often on these boards

 

[U2girl]

whatever!

Which part of the "civilized discussion" would that be?


My previous post was aimed at your point, not you personally, BTW.
(I can also think of plenty of 00s U2 trashing even when the thread topic has absolutely nothing to do with it, since you mentioned being on topic too)

 

[GibsonGirl]

I also think the vast majority of comments on the last two albums are about as far away from "civilized discussion" as possible.

Sadly, that's true. You probably know that I'm not very fond of the majority of ATYCLB, but I try not to let myself sink to the levels that some do. Some posters here really come up with some inane stuff when they try to justify their hatred for ATYCLB/HTDAAB. For instance: "BANO'S VOICE SUX NOW."

 

[Zoots]

Which part of the "civilized discussion" would that be?


My previous post was aimed at your point, not you personally, BTW.

Is saying 'whatever' not civilized now? It's not like I insulted you or called you names!

Yeah, I know your post was not specifically intended towards me but I was just speaking for myself because I can't speak for the other people in this forum that aren't pleased with the 00s.

Please note, I said 'those who arent pleased with the 00s'... not '90s fans'! Big difference!

Anyway, my original post was intended for twochordcool because his attitude of 'I cant take it if anyone even utters a single negative thing about U2' kinda bugs me.

 

[LMP]

Sadly, that's true. You probably know that I'm not very fond of the majority of ATYCLB, but I try not to let myself sink to the levels that some do. Some posters here really come up with some inane stuff when they try to justify their hatred for ATYCLB/HTDAAB. For instance: "BANO'S VOICE SUX NOW."

does he have slash on his avatar?

 

[Zoots]

Wonder who GibsonGirl is referring to. This is intriguing.

 

[twochordcool]

Look! Anybody can say anything they want as long as it pertains to the discussion at hand. Somebody could come in here and say Achtung Baby is the worst album ever by any band. Or somebody else could say that about HTDAAB. Doesn't matter. They're called opinions. And if you disagree, you can discuss against it in a civilized manner... or leave! Ignore the particular comment. On the other hand, if you continue with posts like the one I just quoted, you may end up crossing the line into the name-calling area. Why are you dictating what people should like??? That's what I don't understand.

I'm not dictating anything - I just don't understand how some of you can come here and call yourself a U2 fan and then proceed to discount or criticise songs that any U2 fan in their right mind would absolutely love.

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[Zoots]

any U2 fan in their right mind would absolutely love.

This is what you don't get!!! It's your opinion that all U2 fans must like certain tracks that are in your mind, perfect! All people don't feel that way. Why can't you accept that?

 

[twochordcool]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Can someone please.....

I'll have to give it a listen and let you know.

Going out now, but I'll do it later today.

WELL?!

And I just noticed that you are from Ohio - tell me you are doing your share to make that state a little more blue?!

 

[twochordcool]

This is what you don't get!!! It's your opinion that all U2 fans must like certain tracks that are in your mind, perfect! All people don't feel that way. Why can't you accept that?

Alright, let's put this on the majority then:

Who else thinks that "Trip Through Your Wires", "Love is Blindness" or "Who's Gonna Ride Your Wild Horses" are ordinary, dull, or just straight-up bad songs?



I guarantee we'll have less than 3 people come forward with a "yea" if everyone is being honest.