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Old 02-16-2002, 02:59 AM   #61
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Sorry spinninghead... I just thought I would start some discusion on the board. Is it wrong to question what our hero's and leaders are doing? I want people to inform me, prove me wrong. Its the best way to learn. I didn't mean to get you upset at your time of the month.
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Old 02-16-2002, 03:28 AM   #62
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U2's been loved then hated then loved again, etc... Ups and downs. Bono and company realize it, heck they even mentioned it in a article blurb that thats the way things go with U2 and the media/ fans. They treated it as a normal pattern and way of life with U2 (sort of funny)...

Charity work should be as frequent as possible and naysaying by "haters" shouldn't lead one to just "stop" doing it.

I hope there isn't a backlash though b/c I figure it will only lead to the band breaking up or pushing them closer to break up. I also don't like the idea of the new album getting unfairly panned alah Pop. Pop doesn't deserve the crappy reviews it got post Popmart.

As for gherman... He stated his opinion (whether or not if it is poor or not very well thought out, it doesn't make a difference because it is his opinion and he is ntitled to it) and made an interesting thread.

If people think he had a poor argument or stupid opinion, then people can write a response that disagrees with it, and why. Bad arguments can only make good arguments look better. So if he/ she says something stupid, well you rebut it and prove the person wrong.

Also why censor when there have been worse things said by moderators and the like to other members?

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Old 02-16-2002, 03:59 AM   #63
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I'd just like to say that from a business perspective, there was no backlash to Rattle and Hum! The album sold over 10 million copies in the first year alone! It sold 3 million copies in the first 3 months of release in the USA. What other band has had a major motion picture open at #2. The LoveTown tour was very successful in Australia and in New Zealand, it was the most popular tour in that countries history. 1 out of every 23 people in the country went to U2s 4 shows in New Zealand. "All I Want Is You" was U2s first #1 hit in Australia. The band won the Readers poll in Rolling Stone after Rattle And Hum was released.
From a business perspective, where is the backlash? I'm not really sure there was a backlash with POPMART either. One of the reasons that POP was less successful was that the bands last album had been ZOOROPA, a challenge for most fans, and then they went away for four years. Time away and album like ZOOROPA hurt U2s return in 1997.
From a business point of view, I don't see the band as overexposed at the moment. Walk On and Elevation failed to get enough airplay to crack the HOT 100, Beautiful Day peaked at #21 and Stuck....peaked at #52.
But the band has more than doubled their sales, which is impressive(3.5 million in the USA, 10 million Worldwide) but it hasn't been because the band was overexposed.
Rather than go away, from a business perspective, they would be wise to release their next studio album at the end of 2002! The fire is burning and its easier to burn more wood now than starting from scratch a couple of years from now when the flame is burned out.
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Old 02-16-2002, 04:48 AM   #64
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I don't understand how anyone can criticise another person for wanting to make a difference in this world. I think we all have a responsibility to do what we can to make a positive difference.

Why don't we criticise those who switch TV channels when they see a report about the 25 million people in Sub-Saharan Africa who have HIV or AIDS? Why don't we criticise the people who isolate themselves and aren't willing to let themselves be confronted by anything that makes them feel uncomfortable?

Well, no, that's not entirely true. I don't think we should criticise those people either. I think we should try to open people's eyes and make them more aware of these issues but criticism isn't going to do that.

We (ie people living in 'developed' countries) are so fortunate. And we've always been so fortunate that we don't even know how lucky we are now! We don't get up in the morning and feel thankful for the bed we slept in or the breakfast we're about to eat. When we're sick, we're just pissed off that we don't feel good, not thankful that we have a doctor to see. I'm at university and half the time I forget how damn lucky I am that I can have an education - it gets lost in complaining about having too much work.

We're so privileged, we're so lucky, and I really believe we all have a responsibility to try to extend those privileges to other people - to everyone in the world. And that's exactly why I can't understand criticism of someone who is trying to do that. Why aren't we all taking inspiration from what Bono does and asking if we can help? (I'm not saying people don't do this, btw. I know many, many people have been inspired to get involved in political campaigns because of this and I think that's fantastic).

And on the 'getting taken advantage of by politicians' thing. Yeah, it's probably true. But it's hardly a unique situation. It's politics - you work with people you don't agree with because they're the people you need to get on their side. You make deals with people you dislike because it's the only way to get anything done. It'd be great if it wasn't like that, but it is and I'd be a hypocrite if I said I had a problem with someone taking advantage of the system as it is.

<end rant>
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Old 02-16-2002, 05:50 AM   #65
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Long before I even got to this page, I thought this was the most interesting thread we've had in this forum for a very long time.

gherman, I don't believe you were even critisizing Bono but moreso pointing out what is happening within the press.
Just the day before yesterday I read an ill informed, biased and totally "thick" opinion piece in the Sydney Morning Herald about this very subject.
There is a backlash towards Bono at the moment especially to do with his efforts at the World Economic Forum.
People like to knock those who succeed, people love to pull down those who try to change things and make their world a better place. Bono can come off as arrogant if you don't understand what's in his heart.

I totally understand where the backlash comes from and lets face it, where it has ALWAYS come from. This is nothing new for Bono, he has had criticism about the way he conducts himself, about his outspoken ways, about his passion, from the moment he said U2 have something special. He's had this for over 20 years now!
All that has changed is that the people he's talking to are a little further up the food chain.

Sometimes I think we as fans are very quick to jump on someone who has made an observation that is not exactly in favour of Bono. I don't believe gherman set out to attack Bono and his efforts, he was merely stating what is happening at present.
I personally believe Bono is doing everything he does for the right reasons because after being a fan of his for so long, I have grown to understand where he's coming from. People who don't have that background and are looking in from the angle of "big mouth rockstar lectures world leaders on foreign debt" are going to see it in a completely different light.

As I said, unlike us, they perhaps don't see what's in his heart.
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Old 02-16-2002, 05:51 AM   #66
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"The next step from beatification is crucifixion. So I guess I should enjoy this while I can." --Bono

(February 14, 2002 @ Love Rocks)
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Old 02-16-2002, 06:39 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally posted by gherman:
he doesn't drop a dime himself
As Bonochick said, how do you know that he doesn't? I'm quite sure that he does. No publicity about this doesn't mean he doesn't!!

Okay, if he donates all of his money, then what? Is there any use for him to give all of his money, while others don't donate anything? He is using his fame to spread out the message 'someone in this world needs your help'. If there's ten thousand people hear this message, and each of them gives, for example, ten dollars. That would already be a hundred thousand!

I think Bono is great that he tries to use his fame to do something good for other people. If there's no famous people to do these kind of things, few people would know about them. Imagine if you or me tell some strangers to donate money or to do something for the people in Africa, will they listen? It's quite obvious that it will be a 'no'.
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Old 02-16-2002, 07:08 AM   #68
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I think after the Grammies Bono should go away for a while...but not out of fear from some kind of backlash. Hey...they have come back from backlashes in the past...they will so again in the future. A backlash doesn't bother me...I'm sure it won't bother them and from some of Bono's statements they expect it. They've been there...done that.

I think they should go away...because it would be good for them to go home. He's got two little boys for cripe's sakes. They need their dad. His girls are older but they still need him around..maybe now is the time they need him most...he needs to rest. The band needs to regroup...refresh...take time out...and think of new music.

So go away...not because I'm tired of you...but because it would be good for you.


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Old 02-16-2002, 05:59 PM   #69
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Originally posted by joyfulgirl:
We don't want him doing a Brian Wilson, trust me--I met Brian. Not pretty.
sorry, I just had to say:
cool you met Brian Wilson

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Old 02-16-2002, 06:54 PM   #70
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HELLO? I LIVE IN A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY CALLED HONDURAS. AND ITS CRAP! JUST YESTERDAY MY HOUSE WAS ROBBED, THEY TOOK MY STEREO WITH THREE CDS INSIDE IT AND A COUPLE OTHERS MY MONEY AND MY ELECTRIC GUITAR. THEY TOOK STUFF FROM MY MOM AND SISTER TOO. OUR TV AND VHS AND I HATE THIS COUNTRY BECAUSE NOTHING IS WORKING THE WAY IT SHOULD. POLICE CAME TODAY EVEN THOUGH THE ROBERY WAS...YESTERDAY! THE GOVERNMENT DOESNT DO ANYTHING BECAUSE THERE IS SO MUCH CORRUPTION, AND WE ALSO HAVE THRID DEBT TO PAY! AND YOU ARE SAYING THAT BONO SHOULD BACK OFF!?! REALLY, YOU CANT BE SERIOUS IF ITS A GOOD THING LET HIM DO IT. IT DOESNT HARM YOU AT ALL.
please think before u speak

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Old 02-16-2002, 07:09 PM   #71
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There's one other factor that may limit much U2 bashing - us fans.

U2 fans are now known as being intelligent and VERY computer literate (and, well, it's true). As such, any author/reporter/writer/TV personality who decides to bash Bono or U2 will be bombarded with e-mails, letters, and on-line criticism. This has indeed made some people a bit more hesitant to report negative things on U2.

There's a difference in being negative if the data supports it. But to be negative just for the sake of being negative will bring down the wrath of U2 fans - and we are a powerful group.
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Old 02-16-2002, 08:34 PM   #72
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Nah, I don't think we scare anyone much. All they really need to do is pick out a few name-calling, badly written letters, publish them and say, "see, and their fans are just as dim-witted". Look at what the press has done with that inane quote from that girl outside the World Economic Forum who whined about Bono hanging out with the bunch of old politicians instead of the "regular people".
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Old 02-16-2002, 09:20 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy:
HELLO? I LIVE IN A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY CALLED HONDURAS. AND ITS CRAP! JUST YESTERDAY MY HOUSE WAS ROBBED *snip* please think before u speak
i'm sorry your house was robbed but...did you need to type in all caps?
we're not necessarily saying that bono needs to stop lobbying for third world debt, but he should take a break. sometimes, standing back and taking stock of what you have can help you gain new perspective on things. who knows, maybe if they did take a break, maybe he could come up with some amazing plan or something.
all i know is, U2 are great musicians and bono is a great political lobbyer, and i'd hate to see both go to the crapper because of overexposure.
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Old 02-17-2002, 06:28 PM   #74
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Yes...I am saying Bono should take a break. If you read the New Testament you will find Jesus got away to the mountains alone every chance he could get to pray...he was quite wise in that regard.

And Bono was wise enough in the past to know when to 'take a break'. He will again.

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Old 02-17-2002, 06:46 PM   #75
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Surely you're not comparing Bono the rockstar to Ghandi, King jr and Jesus?

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Old 02-17-2002, 07:14 PM   #76
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I want U2 to make love and music ,not endless political statements .
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Old 02-17-2002, 07:22 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally posted by IvanClaytonJnr:
I want U2 to make love and music ,not endless political statements .
I don't want my question to come across as a personal attack or criticism, but please explain to me why you dislike seeing U2 becoming involved in poliital campaigns? From my perspective, I see it as a positive thing when anyone gets involved in any sort of activism, I see it as them trying to do something positive, something to help people, to make a difference in the world. I don't understand why someone would be criticised for those things. Please someone explain.
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Old 02-18-2002, 02:01 AM   #78
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Originally posted by senrab:
I really hate it when people can't even disagree with U2 in this forum without being pounced on! I like U2's music, so I buy their albums...but I don't agree with everything they do. You can be a fan but disagree with their non-musically related pursuits.

If you had read the rest of the thread then you would have noticed that I had already been attacked for this comment, and that apoligies have been made!! Please, as Bono says, "Let it Go!!"




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Old 02-18-2002, 02:29 AM   #79
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I wonder what this world would be like if Dr. Martin Luther King had taken a break? Or even if Abraham Lincoln had taken heed to pressure. Or maybe we should consider what condition India would be in today without Gandhi's sacrifices.

And if you really want to critique anyone, what if Jesus had quit his ministry when He was pressured by the religious/government leaders and it's citizens to "give it a rest."????

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Old 02-18-2002, 02:31 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy:
HELLO? I LIVE IN A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY CALLED HONDURAS. AND ITS CRAP! JUST YESTERDAY MY HOUSE WAS ROBBED, THEY TOOK MY STEREO WITH THREE CDS INSIDE IT AND A COUPLE OTHERS MY MONEY AND MY ELECTRIC GUITAR. THEY TOOK STUFF FROM MY MOM AND SISTER TOO. OUR TV AND VHS AND I HATE THIS COUNTRY BECAUSE NOTHING IS WORKING THE WAY IT SHOULD. POLICE CAME TODAY EVEN THOUGH THE ROBERY WAS...YESTERDAY! THE GOVERNMENT DOESNT DO ANYTHING BECAUSE THERE IS SO MUCH CORRUPTION, AND WE ALSO HAVE THRID DEBT TO PAY! AND YOU ARE SAYING THAT BONO SHOULD BACK OFF!?! REALLY, YOU CANT BE SERIOUS IF ITS A GOOD THING LET HIM DO IT. IT DOESNT HARM YOU AT ALL.
please think before u speak

Hey, I just wanted to say thanks for sharing your ideas about this. I think in a way it's difficult for a lot of people here to understand the scale of the problems which 'third world' countries experience and to see what a huge impact debt relief can have on those countries. Obviously you have first-hand experience of it and I think maybe hearing from you or from other people living in similar situations, can help people to have more understanding. Maybe it makes thing a little more real to hear about an individual's personal experiences, as opposed to reading a list of statistics or something.

Also, I'm sorry your house was robbed I don't know what else to say about that except that I'm sorry it happened. And that I completely agreed with what you said ;-) Post more often - I liked hearing your perspective!

*Fizz
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