Best Song Survivor: No Line, Round Eight

[lov12113]

I love the implication that because No Line on the Horizon doesn't have the same drumbeat Larry uses like 98 percent of the time that it must be experimental. That doesn't mean NLOTH is experimental at all; rather, it probably just means that Larry is relatively uninventive.

I wasn't even remotely implying that, if you were referring to me. For me, it's guitar treatments that make it unconventional U2. And for me, unconventional U2 = experimental U2.

 

[djerdap]

Guitar treatments? The track basically borrows the main guitar riff from The Fly. How is this track experimental or unconventional even for U2 standards? More atmospheric than the other "rockers" of that era, sure, but other than that, I don't see any experimenting or unconventional songwriting going there whatsoever.

 

[Von Schloopen]

You clearly have no idea what music I have or have not been exposed to,

Oh, make no mistake, he knows music better than you.

He knows what you should think better than you.

 

[Von Schloopen]

U2 are a pop band. They live in the verse/chorus world.

They've always lived in that world. They will always live in that world.

 

[Von Schloopen]

Guitar treatments? The track basically borrows the main guitar riff from The Fly. How is this track experimental or unconventional even for U2 standards?

Riffs and treatments are different things.

I would argue that the drop out chorus is new for U2. Have they done that before?

 

[djerdap]

They have plenty of songs that are not verse/chorus based. Even some of their most famous ones, like One, Bad or With or Without You, don't follow that pattern. Along with a lot of stuff from Zooropa, Passengers and Pop.

 

[Von Schloopen]

They have plenty of songs that are not verse/chorus based. Even some of their most famous ones, like One, Bad or With or Without You, don't follow that pattern. Along with a lot of stuff from Zooropa, Passengers and Pop.

That's all verse/chorus based.They're not great cause they're experimental songwriters. They're great cause they're great songwriters.

 

[cobl04]

That's all verse/chorus based.

Nope, no they aren't...

 

[Von Schloopen]

Nope, no they aren't...

What song on "Zooropa" isn't verse/chorus based? On "Pop"? A lot of "Passengers" is verse/chorus based.

Can you name one U2 song that doesn't have a verse and chorus?

 

[djerdap]

Where's the chorus in Bad or One? Even the "with or without you, I can't live" line is not a traditional chorus. They even bragged about how that song became a success without a chorus.

Zooropa the song is not chorus-based, for one. Whether Lemon has a chorus is open to interpretation I guess - I personally wouldn't call the "midnight is where the day begins" a chorus, but the song hardly has a traditional verse/chorus structure when one considers. Passengers? I don't have to go into detail in that one, right? Actually, which song does have a verse/chorus structure there? Pop? How about The Playboy Mansion?

And how is this specific guitar treatment of an old guitar riff in NLOTH in any way experimental and unconventional, if we're talking semantics now?

I actually googled "drop-out chorus" and the first thing I got was this:

Now there's experimental music for ya! Seriously, how is that moment in any way unconventional for U2? Plenty of choruses in that vein. Pop alone has a lot of those, with a lot more in the rest of the catalogue to go around.

They're not great cause they're experimental songwriters.

Nobody implied this in any way here.

 

[Von Schloopen]

Those are all verse/chorus based songs.

"Zooropa" is verse/chorus.

Go listen to it. You don't hear the repeats?

You can't hear the repeats on "Bad"?

The whole tune is a verse/chorus.

"With Or Without You"? Perfect pop song.

A chorus doesn't have to be catchy to be a chorus.

 

[PhilsFan]

Are you just looking for a fight over semantics?

Zooropa is not a typical verse/chorus rock song by any definition. Unless you think starting a couple verses with the word "Zooropa" or the phrase "Don't worry baby" automatically makes it a chorus.

 

[cobl04]

Peef, are you having sex right now? As you typed that post?

 

[Von Schloopen]

Are you just looking for a fight over semantics?

Zooropa is not a typical verse/chorus rock song by any definition. Unless you think starting a couple verses with the word "Zooropa" or the phrase "Don't worry baby" automatically makes it a chorus.

That is the chorus. "Zooropa" has a verse/chorus structure. With 2 parts. Each with a verse/chorus.

Why are you all so precious about this? U2 are a pop band. So were The Beatles. It's not a bad thing.

 

[PhilsFan]

It's not a bad thing at all. I'm not trying to defend them as being greater than a pop band, I just think you're making a bizarre argument.

 

[Von Schloopen]

"Numb" has a verse and chorus.

So does "Babyface", and "Lemon", and "Stay", and "Some Days Are Better Than Others", and "Daddy's Gonna Pay", "The Wanderer", and "Discotheque", and "Gone", and "Playboy Mansion", and "Wake Up Dead Man", and "Where The Streets Have No Name", and "Hey Jude", and "Whole Lotta Love."

 

[LemonMirrorSky]

Why are you all so precious about this? U2 are a pop band. So were The Beatles. It's not a bad thing.

lol.

 

[Von Schloopen]

It's not a bad thing at all. I'm not trying to defend them as being greater than a pop band, I just think you're making a bizarre argument.

I'm astonished that anyone could listen to Zooropa, and not hear the verse/chorus.

It's a brilliant song.

Zooropa isn't some free-form jam that randomly moves from one chord to another. It's a structured pop song. Listen to it. Play it on the guitar/piano/bass. Everything repeats.

This is a matter of fact. Not opinion. The chords are written in digital stone. It all repeats. It's a pop song. It's there for you to deconstruct. Verse/chorus.

 

[PhilsFan]

I give up.

And your condescension, as if I don't understand song structure, is amusing. I've been playing the guitar for, you know, like seven years, but sure, break down song structure for me. Let's do that.

 

[cobl04]

Where exactly in Numb is the chorus, O Great One?

 

[GirlsAloudFan]

The "I feel numb" part.

The part that Bono sings.

"I feel numb...too much is not enough..."

 

[cobl04]

But that carries on throughout the rest of the song. And it's in the background. Not a chorus as I've come to know them over 22 years of listening to music.

 

[LemonMelon]

It's definitely the chorus IMO. The verses end and it goes in a different, catchier direction. The fact that it's looped throughout is just an example of a creative arrangement, and it adds to the song's lyrical depth. But it absolutely is verse/chorus. There are two modes, and the prior builds up to the former.

I don't see how Zooropa is verse/chorus though. The second part is them repeating a verse again and again, but it never goes beyond that until the song changes, and by that point it's barely even the same track anymore. In the closing portion, "get your head out of the mud, baby" could be labeled a chorus, but it's awfully brief. Just because you repeat something doesn't mean you're following a verse/chorus pattern. Certainly not if you're only looping one thing that has only minor digressions. Further, a "hook" is not necessary a chorus.

 

[The Sad Punk]

Numb and One have a very obvious verse and chorus structure, Zooropa doesn't, though. Not sure how it can be argued otherwise.

I'm also surprised there's an argument about this in the first place and I've decided to participate it. Screw this, let's all get drunk and listen to Chic.

 

[LemonMelon]

Tomorrow Never Knows doesn't have a chorus.

 

[lov12113]

Guitar treatments? The track basically borrows the main guitar riff from The Fly. How is this track experimental or unconventional even for U2 standards? More atmospheric than the other "rockers" of that era, sure, but other than that, I don't see any experimenting or unconventional songwriting going there whatsoever.

It just sounds different than conventional U2 to me. Maybe it doesn't sound that way to you. But compared to most of the 00's, NLOTH sounds different. As in, on purpose. As in, trying something different. That seems more experimental in nature to me. To me Breathe sounds conventional. SUC sounds conventional. NLOTH does not sound conventional.

 

[trevgreg]

Numb and One have a very obvious verse and chorus structure, Zooropa doesn't, though. Not sure how it can be argued otherwise.

I can hear a chorus in Numb and One, but not in Zooropa either. You could make an argument for the "don't worry baby" part in the outro, although I'm not sure if we just call those other verses or what!

 

[Von Schloopen]

I can hear a chorus in Numb and One, but not in Zooropa either. You could make an argument for the "don't worry baby" part in the outro, although I'm not sure if we just call those other verses or what!

Zooropa has a verse chorus structure. Don't let the intro throw you off. And even that has a verse/chorus structure, much as the extended shash intro hides it.

Intro.

Verse:
Zooropa...vorsprung durch technik
Zooropa...be all that you can be

Chorus/Release:

Be a winner
Eat to get slimmer

Bridge.

Verse:

Zooropa...a bluer kind of white
Zooropa...it could be yours tonight

Chorus/Release:

We're mild and green
And squeaky clean

Bridge.


Verse:
Zooropa...better by design
Zooropa...fly the friendly skies

Chorus:

Through appliance of science
We've got that ring of confidence

Verse:

And I have no compass
And I have no map
And I have no reasons
No reasons to get back

And I have no religion
And I don't know what's what
And I don't know the limit
The limit of what we've got

Chorus:

Don't worry baby, it'll be alright
You got the right shoes
To get you through the night
It's cold outside, but brightly lit
Skip the subway
Let's go to the overground
Get your head out of the mud baby
Put flowers in the mud baby
Overground

Verse:

No particular place names
No particular song
I've been hiding
What am I hiding from

Chorus:

Don't worry baby, it's gonna be alright
Uncertainty can be a guiding light
I hear voices, ridiculous voices
Out in the slipstream
Let's go, let's go overground
Take your head out of the mud baby

Outro:

She's gonna dream up
The world she wants to live in
She's gonna dream out loud
She's gonna dream out loud

The intro section is so good it could be it's own song. Their brilliance is they attach it to a basic "Ramones" verse/chorus X2 pop song. There aren't even any real chord changes in the back 1/2, and they still manage to create the verse/chorus structure with lyrics, cadence, vocal tone and background vocals being the movers. And a few guitar flourishes. The chorus has a whole different shake to it than the verses.

 

[digitize]

Excuse my musical ignorance, but isn't a chorus at least partially defined as a set of lyrics that repeats?

 

[Von Schloopen]

Kite is probably their oddest song in terms of structure.

Verse
Pre-pre-chorus
Pre-chorus
Chorus
Verse
Bridge
Chorus
Verse

I can't think of another U2 song with that structure. I can't think of any other song with that structure. It's fucking odd. And how they resisted repeating that pre-pre-chorus and pre-chorus is beyond me. Cause it's ace. But it works as a tune. Creates an amazing crescendo. They were right.

And there you have it. The most progressive and experimental songwriting U2 have ever put to tape was on a record that gets derided for not being progressive or experimental. Insane.