Based on a Myth?

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BlackElectric

The Fly
Joined
Apr 26, 2005
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In Englsih class we're studying myths. So my teacher had us talking about some modern day myths. Superman, the Matrix, etc. We were also talking about how sometimes albums are made into stories/myths. He told us that 'Achtung, Baby' is loosely based on some kind of a myth. Does anyone know anything about this? What it's based on exactly, why U2 decided to do this, or if my Englsih teacher were lying? He didn't say much about it, but now I'm really interested. Any info?
 
Interesting, I'd like to know this too.

The only thing that immediately comes to mind is Icarus.
"your free to fly the crimson sky, the sun won't melt our wings tonight" "take me higher"

and of course UTEOTW is based on the story of Judas and Jesus and some people might consider that myth.
 
That's interesting, BlackElectric. I wonder what your professor meant specifically. the first thing I thought of was the Icarus myth U2DMfan mentioned. But if your prof. meant that the album as a whole was based on a myth, then I wonder if he was thinking more of Zooropa with Macphisto? And if he was thinking it's more like an album that becomes a myth, well that is fascinating like martha said about the Until book. They were living in a surreal state at the end of that Zoomerang tour.

Let us know if you find out more info! :)
 
I have his class again tomorrow. I'll see if I can get anymore information out of him.
 
I once took a class because U2 was mentioned in the course description :nerd:
 
I wonder if he was referring more to the character of MacPhisto ...?
 
Utoo said:
How awesome would it be to take a U2 class??? :drool:

I can imagine the textbook

U2: A complete study by Bono, and The Edge

1.The truth behind the name
2.Building the name
3.The early days
4.The Atmospheric years
5.U2 and America
6.Bono and Africa
7.The new sound
8.ZooTV
9.The quickee
10.The mistake
11.Back to the start
12.Remembering how to rock

13.A-Z songs
14.Meaning behind songs
15.The future
 
You're lucky. My English teacher is obsessed with Bruce Springsteen, but, oddly enough, never talks about him (yet).
 
namkcuR said:


Mistake my ass.

I said it was supposed to be by Bono and The Edge, and they view Pop as a mistake, so if there was a U2: Textbook by Bono, Pop would be in there as the mistake album. I don't personally view Popa s a mistake come on it has Please and Wake Up Dead Man on it
 
My English teacher is a huge U2 fan (thus the reason he mentioned Achtung in the first place)

We took a quiz the other day and he put on The Unforgettable Fire as background music. :drool: Best quiz I ever took.



and as for Pop...it makes me sad to know that Bono and the Edge view it as a mistake. I loved it!
 
BlackElectric said:
My English teacher is a huge U2 fan (thus the reason he mentioned Achtung in the first place)

We took a quiz the other day and he put on The Unforgettable Fire as background music. :drool: Best quiz I ever took.



and as for Pop...it makes me sad to know that Bono and the Edge view it as a mistake. I loved it!

That's terrible! Good for you, mebbe bad for others. YIKES!

Is it the myth of rock n roll?
 
She's probably thinking about the 'watch more tv' thing and the flashing screens and the media thing. That was a part of the tour but like the book says that is not what AB was based on.
 
Ok I asked him today.

Apparently it's loosely based on the book 'Ulysseus' by a man named James Joyce. And so, I've taken this book out from my library and will decide for myself whether it seems to be "loosely based" around it.

...although I think I remember once hearing something about this, though not exactly sure what.
 
BlackElectric said:
Ok I asked him today.

Apparently it's loosely based on the book 'Ulysseus' by a man named James Joyce. And so, I've taken this book out from my library and will decide for myself whether it seems to be "loosely based" around it.

...although I think I remember once hearing something about this, though not exactly sure what.

Ahh, the Nighttown stuff. It's discussed in Bill Flanagan's book (U2: At the End of the World). A good way to score well in class would be to read the first half of that book...:wink:
 
JessicaAnn said:


Where on earth did Bono or Edge (or Larry or Adam, for that matter) ever say POP was a mistake?

It's the old perpetuated myth among fans, even though all they ever said was they rushed it and that the album didn't live up to its potential. The execution, not the idea, was the problem.

The mistake was going on tour underrehearsed.
 
U2girl said:


It's the old perpetuated myth among fans, even though all they ever said was they rushed it and that the album didn't live up to its potential. The execution, not the idea, was the problem.

The mistake was going on tour underrehearsed.

Still, I am not quite sure I have ever heard that. :shrug:
 
BlackElectric said:
Ok I asked him today.

Apparently it's loosely based on the book 'Ulysseus' by a man named James Joyce. And so, I've taken this book out from my library and will decide for myself whether it seems to be "loosely based" around it.

...although I think I remember once hearing something about this, though not exactly sure what.

Ulysseus will probably kill you if you try to read it, it's meant to be very difficult to get into, or even understand. Just believe your teacher. :wink:
 
BlackElectric said:
Apparently it's loosely based on the book 'Ulysseus' by a man named James Joyce. And so, I've taken this book out from my library and will decide for myself whether it seems to be "loosely based" around it.

Well, good luck. As Bodnex indicated, Ulysses is widely considered the most difficult novel ever written in English. Don't get me wrong, I loved that book, but it is a bitch from hell to read.

Before you knock yourself out reading the whole thing (not that I'm discouraging it!) you might press your teacher for a more detailed explanation of how exactly he sees AB being "based on" Ulysses, and what his source for that interpretation was. I can't help wondering if he simply read the brief Nighttown passage in ...End of the World and took something more from it than Flanagan intended. As I recall, Flanagan never suggested AB intentionally alludes to Ulysses, rather that he himself was reminded of Joyce's "Nighttown" by all that innocence-lost-wisdom-gained imagery in AB's lyrics. But this theme is hardly unique to Joyce, and anyhow Ulysses is one of about 20 works Flanagan tries to tie Bono's lyrics into in the course of the book. I've never seen anyone but Flanagan link AB to Ulysses, though.

Also...this is nitpicking...but Ulysses is not a myth! It is (in part) a parody of Homer's Odyssey, so I guess you could call it "mythic satire" or something like that, but that doesn't make the novel itself a myth. I understand what it means to call The Matrix, Star Wars, etc. myths--they fit the dictionary definition of being about archetypal characters--but Bloom and Daedalus are about as anti-archetypal as it gets.

BTW, there have been a few scholarly papers comparing AB to Percy Bysshe Shelley's Epipsychidion, which was what I initially assumed your teacher was referring to. I think these are bullshit too :wink:, but, if you do have cause to write a U2 term paper for this class, Shelley would be considerably easier going than Joyce...
 
yolland said:


Well, good luck. As Bodnex indicated, Ulysses is widely considered the most difficult novel ever written in English.

I'm not going to argue with you, but as someone who taught Joyce for three years at university, I would perhaps argue that the title of "most difficult novel ever written in English" would go to Finnigan's Wake. I fully concede/shame-facedly admit to never having made it all the way through that. Now that was one tough book!
 
Sorry to bump this back up. I want to see if anyone else has any more ideas how AB could fit in with Ulysses. I couldn't read the entire book. It is awfully difficult and I don't have a lot of time to sit through it all. I've read various summaries, though. Some long some short.
Anyone that's read it, any ideas how the "story line" of AB goes with the story line of Ulysses? I can't see it.

yeesh...should've picked a different topic:huh:
 
BlackElectric said:
Sorry to bump this back up. I want to see if anyone else has any more ideas how AB could fit in with Ulysses. I couldn't read the entire book. It is awfully difficult and I don't have a lot of time to sit through it all. I've read various summaries, though. Some long some short.
Anyone that's read it, any ideas how the "story line" of AB goes with the story line of Ulysses? I can't see it.

yeesh...should've picked a different topic:huh:

Well, as I said above, I taught Ulysses at Uni for three years, and yes, it is an extraordinarily difficult novel. And no, I do not see any meaningful connection between that book and Achtung Baby. Just one small example: the novel ends on a (literally) affirmative note, with Molly Bloom expressing her sexual pleasure ("Yes"!). I don't think even the most sanguine of persons could see any connection between that and "Love is Blindness". Could there be a bleaker moment? It's really hard to see any parallels throughout, aside from one or two similar wordings.


:shrug:
 
Bono probably made a joke about it in his dry Irish wit and your teacher took it the wrong way. Happens alot with Bono, especially if it's only in print.

Joking about how some people see too deeply into rock songs and such "oh it's based on Ulysses" which is presumably a very hard book to read. ya know "hey, look how deep I am" with a nudge and a wink.

That or the Flanaggan book thing.
 
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