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caragriff

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u2 even gets a mention in an article on ashlee simpson from the new york daily news.

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/246332p-210924c.html


Gaffe just shows Ashlee
is in sync with her peers

Smirk if you will over Ashley Simpson's vocal malfunction on "Saturday Night Live," but nearly everybody's getting some performance-enhancing help.

"The most scandalous aspect of this isn't that one person got caught," says Spin Magazine's Dave Itzkoff of Simpson's flubbed attempt at lip-syncing - after, she says, losing her voice to bad acid reflux. "It's the fact that it's so commonly used in pop today."

In fact, performers from all genres - even among the sacred cows of classic rock - use various devices that do for music what Tuna Helper does for dinner. Stars have a full lazy Susan of cheating techniques at their disposal, from simple "guide vocal" tracks to complete backing tapes.


In many genres, fans rarely expect performers to show up with real bands. Disco divas, R&B singers and rappers often perform what they call "track dates" at clubs. At such events, the star applies a live vocal to music that's wholly on tape -like high-class karaoke.

Often the reason is economic. Why pay to bring a full group on tour when you're going to play only a few numbers for a quickie promo in a club?

Hip-hop acts excuse their frugality with history. Since the form began with emcees rapping over recordings, the spare sight of performers with just a deejay - even when employed by acts as esteemed as Outkast - reads less as heresy than tradition.

In the world of video-driven pop stars - from Janet Jackson to Britney Spears - it's a given that the performers can't sing and dance hard at the same time. Earlier this month at an awards show, Elton John ridiculed Madonna for cheating her fans by lip-syncing during "live" shows.

What's less commonly discussed, or accepted, is the rash of enhancements used at rock shows. Even a group as respected as U2 clearly needs synthetic help to boost its three spare musicians.

As Rolling Stone editor Joe Levy explains, "When bands go on tour, they often use anything from an added rhythm track to a keyboard player hidden under the stage. The drummer can trigger samples from his drum kit, the guitarist can hit a pedal that adds a guitar part.

"It's real Wizard of Oz stuff."

Levy says this occurs because "people still want to hear something live that sounds like the record. Plenty of rock bands overdub 15 guitar parts in the studio to get that massive sound. Just three guys onstage couldn't [do it]."

One major music publicist blames "the increasing demands on artists. The more radio shows and interviews that are shoe-horned into their schedules, the less their voices can hit those 'money' high notes."

But does it really matter to fans?

Industry types are self-conscious enough about this issue that no one from MTV, Z-100 or most record companies would speak about it on the record yesterday. Itzkoff says Simpson-gate could scar the singer since she's trying to sell herself as a singer-songwriter.

But Levy believes music fans should grow up on this issue.

"If people are shocked and disappointed by this, they ought to get a look at what the girls in Playboy look like before they airbrush them," he says.

"All entertainment involves some kind of enhancement."


Here are just three of the sonic cheat sheets available to modern pop stars:

GUIDE VOCAL: A prerecorded singing track performers use to make their live vocals sound fuller - and to help keep them on pitch. See: Ashlee Simpson.

TRACK DATE: A club or in-store appearance in which the star sings live to his or her record.

BACKING TAPES: Anything, including an added rhythm track, backing vocal, sonic hook or guitar part, recorded to help live musicians better re-create the sound of a multitrack studio production.

J.F.
 
I agree, this should be news to no one.

I think the only problem is when artists pass themselves off as doing something they're not. Everyone knows U2 has backing tapes for their concerts, unless you've never noticed that U2 doesn't have a keyboardist on stage or that Edge can't play two guitars at once, but they also know that the four guys on stage are really playing. There's no real deception there.

Similarly, as much crap as Britney gets, I think the expectation is for a dance show set to music, as opposed to an actual musical performance. No big deal - if you object to that, you're probably not a fan in the first place.

The Simpson case is a bit different. I think she tried to pass it off as if she were really singing, and I don't think that's quite right.
 
The fact that Simpson is mentioned on the same page as the greatest band in the world truly upsets me......
 
Actually It was quite funny SAT when Ashlee didn't sing her song just did this weird dance and walked off stage as her band played on. It looked bad!
at the end of the show her exuse was that the band was playing the wrong song ,and her fathers exuse was that Ashlee was not feeling well and couldnt perform the next song....I honeslty thaght she performed pieces of me live and not lip sync, but then I was not really paying attention to her performance in the first place...
 
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BonoFox1 said:
Actually It was quite funny SAT when Ashlee didn't sing her song just did this weird dance and walked off stage as her band played on. It looked bad!
at the end of the show her exuse was that the band was playing the wrong song ,and her fathers exuse was that Ashlee was not feeling well and couldnt perform the next song....I honeslty thaght she performed pieces of me live and not lip sync, but then I was not really paying attention to her performance in the first place...

I think it was her singing augmented by a backing track of her singing, so it is not exactly lip synching.

But she never should have left the stage.
 
bsp77 said:


I think it was her singing augmented by a backing track of her singing, so it is not exactly lip synching.

I dunno. Maybe, but I'm suspicious. Towards the end, it didn't look like her mouth matched the words. But it was hard to tell because she was holding the mike pretty close.
 
Is it deceptive, if say, Edge were to record the added guitar/keyboard parts, earlier in the day live, and have them played back when the actual concert is done? I figured that's what he did actually.

However, Edge can play guitar, keyboards, and sing for the same song, as New Year's Day will attest. :D
 
There's a huge, huge difference between a band adding an extra guitar or keyboard part via backing tape and some spoiled, no-talent brat who claims to be "punk" getting busted for lip-syncing.
 
Originally posted by Bono's Shades
There's a huge, huge difference between a band adding an extra guitar or keyboard part via backing tape and some spoiled, no-talent brat who claims to be "punk" getting busted for lip-syncing.


Exactly! The difference is, it's not just help with her, it's her act! She sucks and has to have it or she can't go on. I am now even doubting if it was ever her own voice, or a fake in a studio like Milli Vanilli.
 
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Bono's shades said:
There's a huge, huge difference between a band adding an extra guitar or keyboard part via backing tape and some spoiled, no-talent brat who claims to be "punk" getting busted for lip-syncing.

Uhmmmm... I think its lame that U2 once in a while if not a lot of times tries to fake the idea that they are playing music as if all of the music comes from a three piece when in actuality they have some hidden schmoe playing some parts. That's just my opinion. No talent brat is conjecture. :)

Seriously IMO singing along to a backing track and a backing tape for an extra guitar is the same to me. Its all apearances...
 
as i said on the radio this morning, i don't care so long as the singer is upfront about their lip synching. i'm not paying $50+ to see them dance around to the album version. i could just stay at home and watch mtv...no vh1...oh well fuck i guess that'd be the only way i could watch them "performing" the song anyway.
 
Bono's shades said:
There's a huge, huge difference between a band adding an extra guitar or keyboard part via backing tape and some spoiled, no-talent brat who claims to be "punk" getting busted for lip-syncing.


:yes:


U2 would never have walked off the stage and tried to blame it on everyone except themselves....

And that was NOT a backing track to "augment" her voice...that was lip synching all the way.
 
And U2 have been nothing but upfront with their fans over the yrs about just what it is and isn't they are doing on that particular night.

We all know about the sequencer with Bad. If you can't figure out that Edge isn't doing that keyboard bit, you're tone deaf. Heck, they even had it at Live Aid.

I can't name all the other keyboard stuff they've clicked on onstage over the yrs, the list is too long to count.

As for singing....ever since Opening Night of the JT Tour in Tempe, Ariz in 1987 when Bono walked onstage, opened his mouth and croaked out "I want to run, I want to hide..."and then told the audience his voice was shot and they ended up singing half the concert, we've known the guy has had chronic voice problems. I think it's b/c he was never meant to be a singer and probably taught himself to sing the same way Joan Baez did..standing in the shower and jiggling her adam's apple (no lie). Edge has the more natural, unaugmented singing voice, but he doesn't have the "sound" of a lead singer. Whether this makes Bono or Edge the "better" singer is a great question for debate, as what are the standards of a "good" lead singer? It isn't always who has the better vibrato. Larry's voice is surprisingly quite good, I wonder if this came from yrs if singing along or if he had that voice in the first place.

What show was it on Elevation where Bono openly gargled with some throat medication onstage and Willie spotlighted him in the act? And Bono cursed Willie out, it was hilarious...That's what I'm talking about. If Bono's voice is shot that night, he lets us know, and if he doesn't we soon find out. He feels quite comfortable in sharing his deficiencies.
 
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Teta040 said:
And U2 have been nothing but upfront with their fans over the yrs about just what it is and isn't they are doing on that particular night.

We all know about the sequencer with Bad. If you can't figure out that Edge isn't doing that keyboard bit, you're tone deaf. Heck, they even had it at Live Aid.

I can't name all the other keyboard stuff they've clicked on onstage over the yrs, the list is too long to count.

So U2 tells everyone, right before a concert starts that they use backing tracks and a hidden guitarist? I must've missed the announcement on the DVDs I've watched and the concerts that I've been to.

Synthesizers and keyboards are obvious but there are extra guitars in songs in which Bono is probably not playing or pretty impossible for the Edge to be doing by himself. This has been pointed out by several people. Yet we only see the band on stage thus giving an "appearance" of a three piece making music. U2 aren't saints in this department. Hell, in New York, Larry doesn't even play the intro drum part...

Yeah I think lip synching sux and singing along to a backing track sux too, epsecially if you're in a "rock band." But I find it funny that some fans have this superiority complex involving U2 as if the band is clean/ innocent in how they perform live.
 
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Wonder if SNL has the balls to spoof Ashlee Simpson this week? That would be funny. Cruel...but funny.
 
strannix said:

I think the only problem is when artists pass themselves off as doing something they're not. Everyone knows U2 has backing tapes for their concerts, unless you've never noticed that U2 doesn't have a keyboardist on stage or that Edge can't play two guitars at once, but they also know that the four guys on stage are really playing. There's no real deception there.


proverbial nail on the head right there strannix!
i doesnt matter if its enhanced, despite that the point is those 4 guys are actually playing their instruments and singing their hearts out. it's still a live show
 
How come everybody here is forgetting the 2001 MTV MVA elevation misshap? It was near identical error to last weeks SNL messup, complete with Bono's fake vocals.

I have a copy of the live footage(it was cut out of reruns)

Then Bono comes out during his Video Vanguard speech and says "MTV wasn't paying their electricity bill"

I'm just saying all of this to cut out the blatant hypocritical behavious here. I also want to make sure everybody has thier facts straight.

U2FP
 
U2FanPeter said:
How come everybody here is forgetting the 2001 MTV MVA elevation misshap? It was near identical error to last weeks SNL messup, complete with Bono's fake vocals.

I have a copy of the live footage(it was cut out of reruns)


U2FP




Was the backing track of just the "ooohs" cause I could understand why Bono might use that especially if his voice was having problems....?



Speaking of what another posted....I would love to see SNL spoof her! I mean come on, did you see her little hoe-down?! I'm thinking they would, I mean they've spoofed many who have been guests before. The wound might be too fresh though, but I think it'd be hysterical.
 
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Flying FuManchu said:


Synthesizers and keyboards are obvious but there are extra guitars in songs in which Bono is probably not playing or pretty impossible for the Edge to be doing by himself. This has been pointed out by several people. Yet we only see the band on stage thus giving an "appearance" of a three piece making music. U2 aren't saints in this department. Hell, in New York, Larry doesn't even play the intro drum part...

They don't even hide the fact that they do that. If you read At The End Of The World there is plenty of comments on the problems and complexities involved with the samples and backing tapes and extra guitar player etc that they use (in reference to Zoo TV in this case). It's why they don't mess too much with the setlists, and if they are going to stray or do something 'ad lib' it's going to be during the b-stage/acoustic set - which is pretty much the only part of any U2 show that doesn't use any backing. Just watch any concert video/dvd and you'll notice. It may come as a shock, but even The Edge can't play 3 guitar parts at once.

If it's really obvious that there's more than one guitar (eg one 'strumming' chords and one sharp solo sound at the same time - like in Gone for example) then they'll strap a guitar around Bono's neck. Watch Bono, he'll completely stop playing and point at someone or grab the mic for a scream or whatever, while his guitar will still magically be playing. If the song requires the 'Bono' guitar to go nuts, he will double over, turn his back to the crowd, jump around, whatever, so it's not easy to see what he's doing, ie nothing or very little... I'm not saying Bono doesn't/can't play at all, just pointing out a trick they often use.

I don't have a problem with it. There are dozens of bands who do it. If you like layered music, and want to hear it that way live, you have to accept it. As it is they do strip back the songs a lot. I don't think it's a dishonest for them to use a bit of extra beef.
 
A lot of people's voices have stunk in SNL- Bono, Tom Petty and Mick Jagger to name a few of the greats I remember watching who sounded hoarse on the show. But they gave us their own voice, not a record.
 
Earnie Shavers said:


They don't even hide the fact that they do that. If you read At The End Of The World there is plenty of comments on the problems and complexities involved with the samples and backing tapes and extra guitar player etc that they use (in reference to Zoo TV in this case). It's why they don't mess too much with the setlists, and if they are going to stray or do something 'ad lib' it's going to be during the b-stage/acoustic set - which is pretty much the only part of any U2 show that doesn't use any backing. Just watch any concert video/dvd and you'll notice. It may come as a shock, but even The Edge can't play 3 guitar parts at once.

If it's really obvious that there's more than one guitar (eg one 'strumming' chords and one sharp solo sound at the same time - like in Gone for example) then they'll strap a guitar around Bono's neck. Watch Bono, he'll completely stop playing and point at someone or grab the mic for a scream or whatever, while his guitar will still magically be playing. If the song requires the 'Bono' guitar to go nuts, he will double over, turn his back to the crowd, jump around, whatever, so it's not easy to see what he's doing, ie nothing or very little... I'm not saying Bono doesn't/can't play at all, just pointing out a trick they often use.

I don't have a problem with it. There are dozens of bands who do it. If you like layered music, and want to hear it that way live, you have to accept it. As it is they do strip back the songs a lot. I don't think it's a dishonest for them to use a bit of extra beef.

I have no "real problem" with U2 beefing up there sound. I accept it, though I just wish they would just have that extra guy out in the open. I also acknowledge that Edge can't play three guitars at once for some songs but there are people who don't know in terms of guitar playing that the Edge uses "help." I just find it lame that in terms of backing tracks, people have this superiority complex/ critical attitude about it when Simpson or even some other "artists" do it but seem to ignore the fact that U2 does that stuff.

Hell, I don't even think Edge activates some of his effects/ guitar sounds anymore while playing in concert.
 
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U2 has admitted the following:

1. They use synthesizers and taped backing tracks
2. Sometimes Dallas Schoo will add some additional rythmn guitar underneath the stage
3. Bono used a vocal backing track for the opening "Woo Hoo's" on Elevation

However to answer FlyingFuManchu they have never handed out a flyer or made an announcement at a concert to explain this. Who, out 20,000 plus fans really cares, other than the U2 fanatics and musicians in the crowd? Most fans just want to rock and U2 gives them that.

I agree that the taped vocal intro into Elevation was a bit lame (I have no problem if he missed those notes), that is what the one poster was talking about regarding the 2001 MTV VMA's. Guarantee you that Bono sang the rest of the song live, but the claim by FlyingFuManchu that Larry didn't even play the open drums in New York is off base. It is a drum machine all the way in the studio version, and they left that way in concert. No deception there as far as I can see.
 
U2FanPeter said:
How come everybody here is forgetting the 2001 MTV MVA elevation misshap? It was near identical error to last weeks SNL messup, complete with Bono's fake vocals.

I have a copy of the live footage(it was cut out of reruns)

Then Bono comes out during his Video Vanguard speech and says "MTV wasn't paying their electricity bill"

I'm just saying all of this to cut out the blatant hypocritical behavious here. I also want to make sure everybody has thier facts straight.

U2FP

I saw that, and I have it on tape too. I don't remember any vocals. Edge's guitar was not plugged in. It was cut out of the rerun episodes.

I have heard the oohs were faked for the tour to preserve Bono's voice, but Bono has never lip synched a live performance!
 
Reggie Thee Dog said:

However to answer FlyingFuManchu they have never handed out a flyer or made an announcement at a concert to explain this. Who, out 20,000 plus fans really cares, other than the U2 fanatics and musicians in the crowd? Most fans just want to rock and U2 gives them that.


I agree 512%. Would you have Bono start the concert off by saying "just so you know, we DO use some backing tracks, and the intro to New York isn't Larry; it's a drum machine... oh and The Edge can't really play three guitars SO sometimes we have another person playing guitar or a pre-recorded track. Uh, anyway...unos dos tres catorce!" I mean, come on, who the hell CARES? U2 isn't decieving anyone. They've never said "WE PLAY EVERYTHING LIVE INCLUDING ALL 5 GUITAR PARTS AT ONCE OMG LOL!!!!" Plus, y'know, it's not like they're not all playing SOMETHING live...Larry is sitting there playing drums. Adam is playing bass. Edge is playing guitar (or piano). Bono is singing. I don't see the deception in that.
 
Teta040 said:

What show was it on Elevation where Bono openly gargled with some throat medication onstage and Willie spotlighted him in the act? And Bono cursed Willie out, it was hilarious...


That was first leg in Albany, NY. He sounded horrible, and looked horrible, poor guy, he spent most of the night leaning on the Edge with his head on his hand. But the band sounded unbelievable and the crowd filled in for when he couldn't sing the words. It was quuite a show. The next night in Hartford (I was there as well, wasted too much money on that tour)He talked about how memorable that night will be because he really felt "crap" as he put it, and that the crowd picked him up.
 
<<Bono has never lipsync a performance>>

The only exception to the rule in the rooftop TOTP appearance(second disc of the elevation DVD) you are correct. I also think that Bono "Doubled" the "woo" parts when singing the opening song of the 2001 tour.

I'm also going to disagree with U2 "announcing" they have haveprerecorded help. I would think the streets intro, zootv intro, popmusic intro and the elevation intro indirectly acknowledged that fact.

U2FP

PS have U2 ever messed up with sequencers? I can only think of 2001 MTV MVA's and Vancouver Nov 1992 with "Pride" was counted in 3 times.
 
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