As this is war against terorism, should IRA and ETA be eliminated too?

Marko · 10-08-2001, 11:01 AM

I'm just wandering, the world declared war on terorism, not only muslim terorism. If we look at it that way than there should be some strong action against IRA and against ETA in Spain and France, as wall as persecution against all the people who helped them, like US citisens who are originaly from Ireland who for years sent money and arms to IRA.

What do you think about it?

mad1 · 10-08-2001, 11:04 AM

now my mum (read my lips I said MUM!) said it was about time the Americans stopped funding the IRA.......I never knew why they did so, and she said it was cause they were believed in, the terrorists...............when really all that money went to buy more semtex, guns, etc...........

ya know???

anyway, thats what my mumsie said!!!!

TheU2 · 10-08-2001, 11:06 AM

Stop them all...

CK

------------------
I will give you 2 GA's for 2 GC's!! Email or IM me or respond to the multiple threads I have concerning this. Help a desparate man out!!
Email:U2_Kennedy@yahoo.com
AIM: ckennedy77

Marko · 10-08-2001, 12:52 PM

IT seems that people are tired by this subject. It's fair.

Thanx for replies

Shygirl · 10-08-2001, 12:59 PM

I'm not a fan of the IRA or any other terrorist group, but I think we should take this one step at a time....

Shygirl

Sperber · 10-08-2001, 01:02 PM

As this operation is mainly run by US military it is unlikely that they will extinguish this two piles of BS from the planet just because they were not involved in the actions of Sep 11. Though it would be niceof the US government to do so...

------------------
beLIEve

Marko · 10-08-2001, 01:08 PM

Sperber I think so too. US would realy grow in my eyes if they encourage all nations to get rid of their terorists, and offcourse if they stop their support towards the IRA.
Shygirl, yes, there's no need to rush, but just do it in a month, year or 5 years, but do it

melon · 10-08-2001, 01:13 PM

To play the Devil's Advocate...

Who defines a "terrorist"? I ask this because, 225 years ago, you could have labelled the American revolutionaries as "terrorists" for rebelling against the British Empire. Is there a line that can be drawn? A question I'd like to pose.

Melon

------------------
"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time

Shygirl · 10-08-2001, 01:20 PM

I can see your point melon, but I think that it was a totally different time and the circumstances were alot different.. We were fighting for our independence, once we gained that it ended.. The american people are somewhat reasonable.. There is no reasoning with a mad man like Osama Bin Laden...

Marko · 10-08-2001, 01:25 PM

Shygirl I think that Melon doesn't say that for Bin Laden but for IRA - terorist is anyone who places a bomb in a pub full of civilians. I may sipatize Ireland, and I wish them their peace and their land, but IRA is a TERORIST organization, as well as ETA. ETA also has meny just ang good arguments, but their tactics is teroristic. That said, do youo think that Bin Laden has some just arguments? But his acting is totaly wrong and evil? I do think so, not precicely for bin laden but for muslims in middle east...

Shygirl · 10-08-2001, 01:41 PM

I do see your point Marko about the IRA.. I was too general in my remarks to melon..

To answer your question.. I do think there are some just arguments in the Middle East.. I'm not a expert on the subject,but it seems the USA hasn't exactly used its head when dealing with that part of the world..
Even though there may have been some valid arguments, it still doesn't make terroism right or noble..

Sperber · 10-08-2001, 01:52 PM

The problem the US government has with its foreign policy are deeply rooted within its own history.As the became the worlds most powerful nation after WW1 it took only there action where its own interests were in danger. This is a part of the US policy even nowadays! This isn�t something they do on purpose it just is so... they just don�t see why they sould bother about some small countries somewhere in the middle east as long it has nothing to do with oil. That is the huge problem, they( the vast majority of the US citizens) can�t see the point why the world surrounding them is of any importance to them.

BTW This is only my opinion and not meant as a provocation to any of the readers!

------------------
beLIEve

Marko · 10-08-2001, 03:12 PM

Well we are young interferences (100+ posts) and people here can sometimes be so not-tolerant(i'm trying not to be to hard) that I feel so too. There are some people that think like we do, but others atack us when we try to speak so it's unbarable...

but hey, so what, this is net, and I'll stick to my points of view

chears

sv · 10-08-2001, 04:49 PM

Bin Laden and his organization need to be put out of business, without question. So do the IRA and every other organization that promotes change through violent action.

But that would only be part of the solution. Bin Laden is not the world's #1 financial sponsor of terrorism. He is not the world's #1 financial sponsor of brutal dictators and human rights abusers. He is not the world's leading supplier of nearly every form of lethal arms. The U.S. is. If the U.S. really wants to have any credibility whatsoever as a leader in stopping terrorism, it should stop training, supplying, and supporting (financially, diplomatically, and other) terrorists and human rights abusers (such as Bin Laden, a product of American assistance) who happen to favor its geopolitical and economic interests. The U.S. CAN stop terrorism worldwide if it is sincere about it - but the historical evidence is far to the contrary, I'm afraid. The other 4 permanent U.N. Security Council countries are also guilty to a lesser degree in this.

The issue of who gets classified as being a terrorist or a dictator is very relevant - I mean, Saddam Hussein is a "dictator", but Saudi Arabia's leader is a "king". Is there a difference? Same thing: what's a "guerrilla" and what's a "freedom fighter"?

sv · 10-08-2001, 04:56 PM

In terms of the Muslim issue raised here, it is interesting how I never see the IRA referred to as "Christian terrorists" in the U.S. media. However, the terms "Islamic" and "terrorist" are unfairly and inextricably linked in U.S. media - a clear example of the systematic and prevalent bias we see in the American media.

Bin Laden is a terrorist who happens to be Muslim. McVeigh was a terrorist who happened to be Christian (I think). Hitler was a human rights abuser who happened to be Christian. A terrorist is a terrorist, whatever deluded justification he feels he has to be violent.

Not George Lucas · 10-08-2001, 05:25 PM

Here's something a little disturbing:

I have a friend who's a member of the IRA, and she insists that they're not a terrorist group, and, in fact, they never killed anyone.

Right.

Her mother is also friends with Gerry Adams.

Marko · 10-09-2001, 02:10 AM

Shygirl I'm not trying to justify them - they are wrong and they have to come to justice. I was just making a paralel betveen Muslim terorists and IRA and ETA.

Sperber I totlay agree with you on that!

Sperber · 10-09-2001, 02:51 AM

Yep, I know these are harsh words but it feels good to know there are some people who agree with me!

------------------
beLIEve

Jordi · 10-09-2001, 03:50 AM

IRA?ETA?...terrorists?...yes they are.BUT there�s a diference between Bill Landen who kills in name of religion, because for islamics there are only to kind of people: the islamics and the no-islamics, and all the no-islamics are satan.This is a madness.
But IRA and ETA defense their country...I�m from Barcelona, I�m catalan, my national identity document says that I am spanish...fuck spanish!I�m not!Catalunya was attacked 200 years ago, as Euskadi, or Ireland by the English...
I know that a lot from you won�t understand me but when you are on the edge...you make crazy things.
But ...what is terrorism? because if we understand it as "making terror by killing and massacre and caos" there are a lot of governments that are terrorist organitzations.
Finally, I agree with the bombing on Agfanistan, islamics are very dangerous, due to there religion fanatism.

Shygirl · 10-09-2001, 06:27 AM

I just think that this terrorism problem is much to complicated to be fixed quickly..
We need to deal with the most threatening problems at hand and then go from there...

Hopefully the events of Sept 11th have really shaken up our government, so we really try to figure out a long term solution to this problem..

10-08-2001, 11:04 AM	#2
mad1 ONE love, blood, life Join Date: May 2001 Location: Angie Jolie lover from Belfast Norn Ireland. I LOVE YOU ANGIE! Im a Bono fan! Posts: 13,169 Local Time: 05:35 AM	now my mum (read my lips I said MUM!) said it was about time the Americans stopped funding the IRA.......I never knew why they did so, and she said it was cause they were believed in, the terrorists...............when really all that money went to buy more semtex, guns, etc........... ya know??? anyway, thats what my mumsie said!!!! __________________

10-09-2001, 06:27 AM	#20
Shygirl Acrobat Join Date: May 2001 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 351 Local Time: 12:35 AM	I just think that this terrorism problem is much to complicated to be fixed quickly.. We need to deal with the most threatening problems at hand and then go from there... Hopefully the events of Sept 11th have really shaken up our government, so we really try to figure out a long term solution to this problem.. __________________

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10-08-2001, 11:01 AM	#1
Marko War Child Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 744 Local Time: 05:35 AM	As this is war against terorism, should IRA and ETA be eliminated too? I'm just wandering, the world declared war on terorism, not only muslim terorism. If we look at it that way than there should be some strong action against IRA and against ETA in Spain and France, as wall as persecution against all the people who helped them, like US citisens who are originaly from Ireland who for years sent money and arms to IRA. What do you think about it? __________________

10-08-2001, 11:06 AM	#3
TheU2 Banned Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: SI, NY, USA Posts: 1,189 Local Time: 05:35 AM	Stop them all... CK ------------------ I will give you 2 GA's for 2 GC's!! Email or IM me or respond to the multiple threads I have concerning this. Help a desparate man out!! Email:U2_Kennedy@yahoo.com AIM: ckennedy77

10-08-2001, 12:52 PM	#4
Marko War Child Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 744 Local Time: 05:35 AM	IT seems that people are tired by this subject. It's fair. Thanx for replies

10-08-2001, 12:59 PM	#5
Shygirl Acrobat Join Date: May 2001 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 351 Local Time: 12:35 AM	I'm not a fan of the IRA or any other terrorist group, but I think we should take this one step at a time.... Shygirl

10-08-2001, 01:02 PM	#6
Sperber Acrobat Join Date: May 2001 Location: Bremen Posts: 382 Local Time: 05:35 AM	As this operation is mainly run by US military it is unlikely that they will extinguish this two piles of BS from the planet just because they were not involved in the actions of Sep 11. Though it would be niceof the US government to do so... ------------------ beLIEve

10-08-2001, 01:08 PM	#7
Marko War Child Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 744 Local Time: 05:35 AM	Sperber I think so too. US would realy grow in my eyes if they encourage all nations to get rid of their terorists, and offcourse if they stop their support towards the IRA. Shygirl, yes, there's no need to rush, but just do it in a month, year or 5 years, but do it

10-08-2001, 01:13 PM	#8
melon ONE love, blood, life Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Ásgarðr Posts: 11,789 Local Time: 01:35 AM	To play the Devil's Advocate... Who defines a "terrorist"? I ask this because, 225 years ago, you could have labelled the American revolutionaries as "terrorists" for rebelling against the British Empire. Is there a line that can be drawn? A question I'd like to pose. Melon ------------------ "He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time

10-08-2001, 01:20 PM	#9
Shygirl Acrobat Join Date: May 2001 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 351 Local Time: 12:35 AM	I can see your point melon, but I think that it was a totally different time and the circumstances were alot different.. We were fighting for our independence, once we gained that it ended.. The american people are somewhat reasonable.. There is no reasoning with a mad man like Osama Bin Laden...

10-08-2001, 01:25 PM	#10
Marko War Child Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 744 Local Time: 05:35 AM	Shygirl I think that Melon doesn't say that for Bin Laden but for IRA - terorist is anyone who places a bomb in a pub full of civilians. I may sipatize Ireland, and I wish them their peace and their land, but IRA is a TERORIST organization, as well as ETA. ETA also has meny just ang good arguments, but their tactics is teroristic. That said, do youo think that Bin Laden has some just arguments? But his acting is totaly wrong and evil? I do think so, not precicely for bin laden but for muslims in middle east...

10-08-2001, 01:41 PM	#11
Shygirl Acrobat Join Date: May 2001 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 351 Local Time: 12:35 AM	I do see your point Marko about the IRA.. I was too general in my remarks to melon.. To answer your question.. I do think there are some just arguments in the Middle East.. I'm not a expert on the subject,but it seems the USA hasn't exactly used its head when dealing with that part of the world.. Even though there may have been some valid arguments, it still doesn't make terroism right or noble..

10-08-2001, 01:52 PM	#12
Sperber Acrobat Join Date: May 2001 Location: Bremen Posts: 382 Local Time: 05:35 AM	The problem the US government has with its foreign policy are deeply rooted within its own history.As the became the worlds most powerful nation after WW1 it took only there action where its own interests were in danger. This is a part of the US policy even nowadays! This isn�t something they do on purpose it just is so... they just don�t see why they sould bother about some small countries somewhere in the middle east as long it has nothing to do with oil. That is the huge problem, they( the vast majority of the US citizens) can�t see the point why the world surrounding them is of any importance to them. BTW This is only my opinion and not meant as a provocation to any of the readers! ------------------ beLIEve

10-08-2001, 03:12 PM	#13
Marko War Child Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 744 Local Time: 05:35 AM	Well we are young interferences (100+ posts) and people here can sometimes be so not-tolerant(i'm trying not to be to hard) that I feel so too. There are some people that think like we do, but others atack us when we try to speak so it's unbarable... but hey, so what, this is net, and I'll stick to my points of view chears

10-08-2001, 04:49 PM	#14
sv The Fly Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 229 Local Time: 05:35 AM	Bin Laden and his organization need to be put out of business, without question. So do the IRA and every other organization that promotes change through violent action. But that would only be part of the solution. Bin Laden is not the world's #1 financial sponsor of terrorism. He is not the world's #1 financial sponsor of brutal dictators and human rights abusers. He is not the world's leading supplier of nearly every form of lethal arms. The U.S. is. If the U.S. really wants to have any credibility whatsoever as a leader in stopping terrorism, it should stop training, supplying, and supporting (financially, diplomatically, and other) terrorists and human rights abusers (such as Bin Laden, a product of American assistance) who happen to favor its geopolitical and economic interests. The U.S. CAN stop terrorism worldwide if it is sincere about it - but the historical evidence is far to the contrary, I'm afraid. The other 4 permanent U.N. Security Council countries are also guilty to a lesser degree in this. The issue of who gets classified as being a terrorist or a dictator is very relevant - I mean, Saddam Hussein is a "dictator", but Saudi Arabia's leader is a "king". Is there a difference? Same thing: what's a "guerrilla" and what's a "freedom fighter"?

10-08-2001, 04:56 PM	#15
sv The Fly Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 229 Local Time: 05:35 AM	In terms of the Muslim issue raised here, it is interesting how I never see the IRA referred to as "Christian terrorists" in the U.S. media. However, the terms "Islamic" and "terrorist" are unfairly and inextricably linked in U.S. media - a clear example of the systematic and prevalent bias we see in the American media. Bin Laden is a terrorist who happens to be Muslim. McVeigh was a terrorist who happened to be Christian (I think). Hitler was a human rights abuser who happened to be Christian. A terrorist is a terrorist, whatever deluded justification he feels he has to be violent.

10-08-2001, 05:25 PM	#16
Not George Lucas Acrobat Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: South Bend, IN USA Posts: 399 Local Time: 05:35 AM	Here's something a little disturbing: I have a friend who's a member of the IRA, and she insists that they're not a terrorist group, and, in fact, they never killed anyone. Right. Her mother is also friends with Gerry Adams.

10-09-2001, 02:10 AM	#17
Marko War Child Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 744 Local Time: 05:35 AM	Shygirl I'm not trying to justify them - they are wrong and they have to come to justice. I was just making a paralel betveen Muslim terorists and IRA and ETA. Sperber I totlay agree with you on that!

10-09-2001, 02:51 AM	#18
Sperber Acrobat Join Date: May 2001 Location: Bremen Posts: 382 Local Time: 05:35 AM	Yep, I know these are harsh words but it feels good to know there are some people who agree with me! ------------------ beLIEve

10-09-2001, 03:50 AM	#19
Jordi The Fly Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Barcelona Posts: 41 Local Time: 05:35 AM	IRA?ETA?...terrorists?...yes they are.BUT there�s a diference between Bill Landen who kills in name of religion, because for islamics there are only to kind of people: the islamics and the no-islamics, and all the no-islamics are satan.This is a madness. But IRA and ETA defense their country...I�m from Barcelona, I�m catalan, my national identity document says that I am spanish...fuck spanish!I�m not!Catalunya was attacked 200 years ago, as Euskadi, or Ireland by the English... I know that a lot from you won�t understand me but when you are on the edge...you make crazy things. But ...what is terrorism? because if we understand it as "making terror by killing and massacre and caos" there are a lot of governments that are terrorist organitzations. Finally, I agree with the bombing on Agfanistan, islamics are very dangerous, due to there religion fanatism.