Alternative Perspective on this Tragedy (Why are we surprised?)

[U2Bama]

Cold War communist groups were known to molest election results; it is not entirely accurate to label many of those "leftist governments" as "democratically elected."

I'm not saying that their "rightist" opponents were right, but it is healthy to abstain from glorifying leftist regimes of the 60s and 70s.

~U2Alabama

 

[Zooman91]

We have done a lotta shit to these countries. We backed Isreal's takeover, supported Iran's former leader, exercised our military and financial prowess over them, and meddled in their affairs. As much as I hate to say it, the use of planes was a thousand-fold a better idea for them to use than a bomb truck.
I saw a survey on tv, and 66% of the people surveyed would gladly give up a few privileges to increase security. But then again, what do you expect from minimum-wage security and a 1 in 5 chance of them missing a weapon? The only thing I'm happy about what Bush has done so far is the fact that he will make no distinction between the terrorists and those who harbor them. We'll just have to see how things play out.

 

[StarsnStripes]

Originally posted by Sledgehammer:
...understand what their goverments have done to thousands of children in the Middle East or Yugoslavia.

Terrible to be sure, but if the US hadn't intervened, genocide would still be going on in Yugoslavia, and Iraq would have rolled the entire Middle East. The losses in either case are minimal compared to the carnage that would have taken place had we done nothing.


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Sometimes the most powerful thing you can do for someone is to just tell them to fuck off. I am told to fuck off rather a lot by these three gentlemen.

 

[Sledgehammer]

IvanClayton and Sledgehammer, you guys are saying this attack is deserved and is a good thing because it will open the eyes of Americans to the attrocities they've been commiting. Is that what you're saying?

NO!!! I knew somebody would misunderstood me. Maybe it's my poor English...

The war crimes commited by America to other countries can NOT be seen as an alibi for such a horrible attack! And I don't think it was a good thing. If you read my other posts the last couple of the days, you'll see how shocked and sad I am about all that. It was a horrible thing as an action, but the fact that it happened can help the Americans to open their eyes.

I'm just trying to say that after this tragical event, the American goverment should think deeper and consider how it deals with the rest of the world. And people too, should care more about politics and how they see things outside America. Because they're are so many fanatic organisations and powerful terrorists out there, who are willing to kill themselves just to raise public interest. Your presidents can't keep on bombing without ever facing an answer. It was a matter of time.



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"I'm not afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens", Woody Allen

 

[IvanClaytonJnr]

Originally posted by 80sU2isBest:

Originally posted by Spiral_Staircase:
I just want to make sure I'm understanding everybody. IvanClayton and Sledgehammer, you guys are saying this attack is deserved and is a good thing because it will open the eyes of Americans to the attrocities they've been commiting. Is that what you're saying?

I understand it that way, also.

[This message has been edited by 80sU2isBest (edited 09-12-2001).]

i CEARTAINLY hope there will be no WWIII


It is a call for all of us , these terrible attacks , showed the world , that these cowards are 'not afraid of anything
They really think that , there is no punishment , NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
, They hit the center of freedom and Democracy ,

IT IS TIME TO SHOW A REAL JUSTICE TO THE WHOLE WORLD , THERE IS NO OTHER WAY NOW...
..


PEACE ON EARTH
PEACE ON EARTH
PEACE ON EARTH

 

[80sU2isBest]

For my part, Sledgehammer, I wanted to apologize for my post. When I was agreeing with Spiral_Staircase, I was agreeing about IvanClayton. I should've stated that I didn't believe that about you.

 

[Eleanor Rigby]

I'm new so hello!
First of all, i'd like to say that everyone in my country is shocked and apaulled by tuesday's horrifying attacks. I, for one, cried my eyes out watching WTC falling. I'd always wanted to go to New York, it was my dream, and to see this happening is just one of the saddest things I ever saw. I keep my prayers to the victims and their families and I know that our lives around the world will never be the same.
Second, I just wanted to remind you that the US DID fund the argentinian army during the '70s to overthrow the power (who was most certainly not a "leftist" government!). These military government killed over 30,000 people in concentration camps (not counting the kids sent to die in the Falklands)- this is kidnapped, tortured and killed. The children born in this institutions had their identities stolen. This was supposed to happen to stop the "leftist" movements that were going on and to prevent the democratical election of a socialist leader like in Chile.

Terrorism is one of the deadliest weapons against human race. I've seen it happen, half of my school was blown up in 1992 when the Embassy of Israel was bombed.

But the US has made some terrible, terrible mistakes in the past and that cannot be denied. And let's remember that when hate follows hate...well...shit happens.Idiots and sons of bitches like those involved in these terrible acts live all around the world and are not just triggered by "freedom". Everyone wants freedom. The only thing is that everyone has their own conception of freedom - I bet according to Osama Bin Laden "freedom" means getting rid of western consumist temptations.

MAKE NO MISTAKE - I think Osama Bin Laden and those responsible should face justice as soon as possible and pay for these crimes against humanity.

Peace on Earth.


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*drew*

 

[Sledgehammer]

For my part, Sledgehammer, I wanted to apologize for my post. When I was agreeing with Spiral_Staircase, I was agreeing about IvanClayton. I should've stated that I didn't believe that about you.

It's OK 80s, I appreciate it. I wouldn't have a problem anyway, I respect all opinions. Besides, you're a John Payne fan!

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"I'm not afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens", Woody Allen

 

[dream wanderer]

I think whatever sins America has comitted in the past...she has paid for them...


dream wanderer

 

[doctorwho]

Originally posted by Sledgehammer:
I have to agree with Michael.
The people who have been killed my the American bombs in Kossovo, Vietnam and Iraq were innocent. Just like the people who were going to their jobs in Manhattan yesterday. INNOCENT.

Nope, sorry, WORLD of difference here.

The U.S., if you recall, actually TRIED to stay out of Kossovo as much as possible. And what happened? The people there were infuriated that the U.S. didn't step in to help! The people also cried that rest of Europe wasn't helping. And eventually, the U.S. was dragged in. The people of South Korea asked for U.S. help. The people of Kuwait asked for U.S. help against Iraq. In other words, each time the U.S. was asked to assist - they just didn't leap in destroying innocent lives.

Furthermore, the U.S. employed traditional war tactics. They tried their best to limit civilian casualties (especially in the Gulf War, where U.S. soldiers often put their own lives at stake in order to protect the innocent people of Kuwait). Missle attacks were not random bombings, but rather pinpoint attacks on key areas.

In contrast, this attack against the U.S. did not take civilian life under consideration at all - in fact, it was just the opposite. It seemed that the terrorists almost enjoyed destroying the lives of innocent people (as evidence by the fact that the terrorists actually announced to the people on the planes that they were all going to die). There was no country they were assisting here. Rather, these terrorists were acting on their own personal, selfish beliefs. And their leader is clearly shameless - not only has he not come forward to take credit for these awful attacks (most likely fearing his life being the coward he is) but it is now believed he tricked his followers into doing these horrible actions.

Therefore, please don't confuse the two events. Yes, I will readily admit that the U.S. often interferes with foreign politics and has done some unscupulous activities (why does the Reagan-era keep leaping to mind?). However, even then, those tactics were in the name of war, not a terrorist, unannounced attack. Heck, even the IRA frequently announces their attacks in advance to help limit civilian casualties.

 

[U2Bama]

Usama bin Laden has made it clear in the past that he does not differentiate between civilians and military personnel when regarding "Americans" as the enemy.

I am his enemy, just as much as General Shelton is.

~U2Alabama

 

[Sledgehammer]

Originally posted by doctorwho:
Missle attacks were not random bombings, but rather pinpoint attacks on key areas.

Do you really believe that?
What about the Chinese Embassy Bombing 'mistake'? The killings of hundrends of innocent Albanian refugees in April, 1999? Clinton said bombing of Albanian refugees by an American pilot was "regrettable and tragic, but no reason to change the mission" and blamed the carnage on Milosevic.
They were families and children walking by the Serbian bridges too, when the Americans were attacking throwing their bombs. Why can't you see that? There is no difference. To the eyes of the Serbians, they were terrorists too. Same story in Vietnam and Iraq.

I understand your anger and pain after this tragedy, but how can you imply that a WAR can be OK as long as we're fighting for an idea like 'international security'?





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"I'm not afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens", Woody Allen