Album 13: Mirror mirror on the wall, there's no album so let's just talk y'all

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Exactly, I don't dispute that. My point was that if their goal is to record another 'masterpiece' it will be up to the fans/critics to determine that and the ensuing success it gets.

Sure, I agree with that.

But I don't think their goal is to try to record a masterpiece. I think their goal is to try to record a bunch of pop songs (when did they stop being a rock band anyway?) that will be played on the radio, watched on YouTube, and downloaded at Beyonce' type levels. Their goal is to have a significant cultural impact and be relevant.

I actually think they have a better chance of producing a masterpiece than doing any of that, no matter what they're trying to do.
 
Sure, I agree with that.

But I don't think their goal is to try to record a masterpiece. I think their goal is to try to record a bunch of pop songs (when did they stop being a rock band anyway?) that will be played on the radio, watched on YouTube, and downloaded at Beyonce' type levels. Their goal is to have a significant cultural impact and be relevant.

I actually think they have a better chance of producing a masterpiece than doing any of that, no matter what they're trying to do.

Agreed, for sure. Do you think their hunger for relevance and going the "pop route/Social Media attention" is actually "killing" their integrity and creativity as a band ?

Sounds to me that it's very counterproductive
 
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What concerns me is actually how long hey are prepared to wait for 'God to walk in the room' again.

They are all fully aware of just how long its been since the last album ( let along the last time they had a bona fide hit i.e: Vertigo n 2005), but if something special doesn't spark over the next few months are they just going to release what they've got irrespective of the consequences or are they just going to keep waiting?

My money's on the latter, at this stage in their career with the stakes so high (at least in their minds), they are not going to sign off on anything they're not 100% with or that could see the bands reputation suffer even further.

Imagine if it was March 1994 and the band were still wrestling with AB having not released anything since Rattle and Hum back in 89, they'd have admitted it wasn't working any longer and broken up, there's no way they'd have allowed years to pass slogging away at the same project
 
What does this even mean? Both the records you mentioned are widely regarded as masterpieces...no serious person could debate that. If whatever record they manage to cobble together is good enough to become widely regarded as a masterpiece, well then more power to them. I hope it is a masterpiece.



Well, yeah. That kind of goes to my point.



Huh? Irrelevant to who?



Whatever would give you that idea? Where are you getting this? Something tells me, if that didn't care what the "fans or anyone else" thought, we'd have a record right now. U2 probably care more about what the fans and everyone else thinks than any other major band I've ever seen.

If they cared that much about what the fans or everyone else thinks they would have release the album ages ago or after the Billboard article... and Bono would stop seeing politicians :wink:
 
Agreed, for sure. Do you think their hunger for relevance and going the "pop route/Social Media attention" is actually "killing" their integrity and creativity as a band ?

I don't know. That's always been a difficult question to answer about U2, a band whose artistic and commercial ambitions have always been closely aligned. I really think that U2 believes a record is an artistic failure if it's a commercial failure.

Does anyone doubt that U2 would be talking about Pop and Zooropa much differently today had those records not under performed? (by their standards)

I don't think that wanting to be heard on the radio, and be culturally relevant is a bad thing. Ambition like that can be a good, driving force for a rock band. It's part of what takes garage bands out of the garage. But when you allow that to become your primary, motivating factor...when you make music in an attempt solely to create hits, and not try to make a hit out of the music you create, then I think you've got problems.

IMO U2's just stuck. They want to be relevant. They have a name, but not the new music to back it up, at least right now right now . It appears to me they are genuinely struggling to create something they regard as special. They didn't used to have to try so hard, that's it. And that's not necessarily a criticism...either the music there or it's not.

But you can't force it, no matter how many producers you bring in. At their best, those guys, whether named Burton, Epworth, Tedder, Eno, Lanois, Lillywhite or Flood, can only bring out what's already inside you.
 
Even wu tang is getting innovative. They have a double album in the works and is only going to be made on double disc in a special lock box and will travel throughout museums and festivals for people to pay a fee and listen. Article on pitchfork. This is in addition to their 20th anniversary release of a NEW album.

Come on U2 let's get going!
 
IMO U2's just stuck. They want to be relevant. They have a name, but not the new music to back it up, at least right now right now . It appears to me they are genuinely struggling to create something they regard as special. They didn't used to have to try so hard, that's it. And that's not necessarily a criticism...either the music there or it's not.

They should just release a deluxe edition of PASSENGERS. Now THAT would be special :up:

But you can't force it, no matter how many producers you bring in. At their best, those guys, whether named Burton, Epworth, Tedder, Eno, Lanois, Lillywhite or Flood, can only bring out what's already inside you.

100% with you on this. Producers are more like coaches that guide a band through their creative process and help them achieve what they're aiming for.
 
Does anyone doubt that U2 would be talking about Pop and Zooropa much differently today had those records not under performed? (by their standards)

Two different animals...and I hear the point of your statement, but Zooropa was quickly put together album...almost throw-away in U2's standards, not meant to make a big splash or sell tons of units. Whereas Pop was a 'Big Statement' album. THEE NEW U2 album, a new promotional cog started and singles made to put U2 back in the limelight.

One served it's purpose, the other failed (in U2's world). I'm not saying U2 was thrilled only selling 2 million units (US market), but Zooropa's songs were VERY experimental, I mean really is there one song that has anything resembling a traditional guitar sound on it (maybe Dirty Day)?

I hope U2 scales back the drum machines during this new studio time and gets back to being a band, where everyone plays their instruments on each song. I really like Invisible, but I miss Larry's drums.
 
Two different animals...and I hear the point of your statement, but Zooropa was quickly put together album...almost throw-away in U2's standards, not meant to make a big splash or sell tons of units. Whereas Pop was a 'Big Statement' album. THEE NEW U2 album, a new promotional cog started and singles made to put U2 back in the limelight.

One served it's purpose, the other failed (in U2's world). I'm not saying U2 was thrilled only selling 2 million units (US market), but Zooropa's songs were VERY experimental, I mean really is there one song that has anything resembling a traditional guitar sound on it (maybe Dirty Day)?

Right. And I agree that their own expectations for Zooropa, both commercialy and artistically frankly, were limited. So I don't think they could have been too disappointed from the huge drop off in sales from AB to Zooropa. In fact I'm sure they were expecting it. You're quite right that it was never meant to be more than an interesting diversion. You're also quite right that they certainly expected more from Pop.

That said, my point is that had by chance Zooropa been some kind of runaway surprise success that broke through to the general public, U2 would surely, IMO, be speaking of it in more favourable terms today. The same goes for Pop.
 
Right. And I agree that their own expectations for Zooropa, both commercialy and artistically frankly, were limited. So I don't think they could have been too disappointed from the huge drop off in sales from AB to Zooropa. In fact I'm sure they were expecting it. You're quite right that it was never meant to be more than an interesting diversion. You're also quite right that they certainly expected more from Pop.

Yes true. Zooropa was meant to be merely a "Postcard from the ZOOTV tour" from the band to the fans. That was the bands' own description of the album
 
That's very insightful.

More like simply stating the obvious. :)

What do you think of this commentary:

I think U2 should surprise release their just-delayed album whenever it's done. Wait! Where are you going? Hear me out. There's not a lot of artists the whole surprise release thing works for. They need to be popular, front page of iTunes popular. U2 aren't exactly fashionable, but they're one of the biggest bands on the planet. If they suddenly appeared everywhere out nowhere with an album, as they almost certainly would if they chose to do this, you'd probably be at least a little bit curious to hear it. They're one of the few acts who could match surfboard-levels of excitement, even if it occurs in a completely different string of media.

I'd rate my interest in new U2 material somewhere between morbid curiosity and foolish optimism. They've been away for a while, and seem set to make their legacy album. But remember, not everyone who bought that Beyoncé album was a Beyoncé fan; they just got drawn into its inescapable buzz. I think we're still realising the full extent of that secret releases' effects. It made people think of a singles act like Beyoncé in full album terms. U2 sit somewhere in the middle, they've had great singles over the years, but they're mostly seen as an LP band. This release style could combine the best of both worlds, it's an album as a single. If they can surprise people into listening to something they would have never given the time of day to otherwise, they could be back in fine form, people might actually start enjoying U2 again. And at the least, it'd one of the only things about their upcoming album that they hadn't over thought. - Peter Hinson

LOL..."I'd rate my interest in new U2 material somewhere between morbid curiosity and foolish optimism."

Yep, that about sums it up.
 
What's that stuff about "U2 not being a band anymore"? Just because they aren't together 24/7 in a recording studio? U2 have worked like that for at least 15 years now, they've been a part time band for much of their career and most of them admitted it actually works quite well that way. No matter in which directions their individual lives may lead them, whenever they get together to record music or to perform, they ARE a band. Fans need to let go of the romantic ideal of a band being together day and night working on new music. If it really was like that, they would have officially broken up long ago.
 
I think the bicycle is a very underrated and underutilized mode of urban transportation, especially with the obesity epidemic in this country.

Being a fish bicycles are an absolute necessity in my everyday life - it's my only mode of transportation.
 
I think the bicycle is a very underrated and underutilized mode of urban transportation, especially with the obesity epidemic in this country.

Did you know that almost all Dutch kids are taught how to ride a bike? And it's quite common to ride it to primary and highschool here as well. How's things like that in the US?
 
Most primary schools are in the neighbourhood, 5-10 minutes cycling. For me it was across the street so about 1 whole minute minute. Highschools, hmm probably bit bigger distance, but still below 20 minutes I'd say. Then again I live in a big city, in the small towns it will be bigger distances.
 
Schools in the States are pretty widely spaced and getting wider all the time, as the trend continues towards larger consolidated schools and shuttering the smaller neighborhood ones. Plus, America is just so big and spread out. Our population density is quite low in most places, so cycling can be very impractical. Not to mention that our roads and road culture do not favor bikes at all- cyclists are frequently struck by cars in my rural area.
 
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