after events in USA, do you think we're getting into WW3? and the end of the world?

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If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Diemen: can i say something that has occured to me today?

while i was speaking of "classical" war, i realised today that i was looking at it on US - terorrists level.

but on the other hand, US was also attacked as a symbol of democracy, developed world in general. and the terorrist group behind it is a representative of worldwide threat of terorrism. antiglobalism at its worst vs capitalism. the poor vs the rich.

so...yes, it is a war in that sense. is that what you were trying to tell me?

------------------
"the beat of every U2 song is the pulse of every human heart"
- Carson Daly, introducing U2

the goal is soul

"be uncool, yes be awkward"

[This message has been edited by U2girl (edited 09-15-2001).]
 
Originally posted by U2girl:
so...yes, it is a war in that sense. is that what you were trying to tell me?


Oh please, please, pretty please tell me you aren't asking that because you honestly don't know the answer.
eek.gif
 
Originally posted by Diemen:
Oh please, please, pretty please tell me you aren't asking that because you honestly don't know the answer.
eek.gif



no, i am asking that to check if i understood what you were trying to tell me correctly. if i got it right.


------------------
"the beat of every U2 song is the pulse of every human heart"
- Carson Daly, introducing U2

the goal is soul

"be uncool, yes be awkward"
 
Originally posted by SicilianGoddess:

AFUCKINGMEN



ouch!
wink.gif




------------------
"the beat of every U2 song is the pulse of every human heart"
- Carson Daly, introducing U2

the goal is soul

"be uncool, yes be awkward"
 
Originally posted by U2girl:
no, i am asking that to check if i understood what you were trying to tell me correctly. if i got it right.



Yeah, you [finally] 'got it right.'

*Diemen throws his hands up in the air and walks away*
 
U2 Girl,


I'll make this simple for you to risk embarassment considering this is only a U2 board, whom we all love because of their greta music.

I'll take you point/ counterpoint, and I won't pull punches, I'll tell you why and why not we should destroy the middle east.

You may be a brilliant U2 fan but as far as a United States citizen and a knowledgeable political fan you are an abomination.

Give me point #1 and we can start.
 
Originally posted by U2DMfan:
U2 Girl,


I'll make this simple for you to risk embarassment considering this is only a U2 board, whom we all love because of their greta music.

I'll take you point/ counterpoint, and I won't pull punches, I'll tell you why and why not we should destroy the middle east.

You may be a brilliant U2 fan but as far as a United States citizen and a knowledgeable political fan you are an abomination.

Give me point #1 and we can start.

In fairness to U2girl, she is not American - she's Slovenian (or at least lives there, I'm not sure of the details).
 
Originally posted by Diemen:
Yeah, you [finally] 'got it right.'

*Diemen throws his hands up in the air and walks away*

was that so hard? you could have just said "yes" right away when i asked you.
 
Originally posted by U2DMfan:
U2 Girl,


I'll make this simple for you to risk embarassment considering this is only a U2 board, whom we all love because of their greta music.

I'll take you point/ counterpoint, and I won't pull punches, I'll tell you why and why not we should destroy the middle east.

You may be a brilliant U2 fan but as far as a United States citizen and a knowledgeable political fan you are an abomination.

Give me point #1 and we can start.

?!?

i don't know what's gonna happen in Middle east.

if you bothered to check my profile, you would see i am not an american citizen. or you could just ask. instead, you just assumed i was an American.

political fan? i don't think i have enough knowledge (or interest, for that matter) in politics worldwide to consider myself a fan of politics in general.

------------------
"the beat of every U2 song is the pulse of every human heart"
- Carson Daly, introducing U2

the goal is soul

"be uncool, yes be awkward"

[This message has been edited by U2girl (edited 09-16-2001).]
 
Well somebody shoul back up u2girl, so I'll do it.
First: you are all intolerate, and still usualy full of it with the moral and ethic statements when we are talking about some problems and issues in the world. But now something bad has hit you and you are angry and you seem to forgett all of your previous statements before... U2girl and myself experienced war before you. She had it for 10 days, and I had it right after her for 5 years. We were atacked by same country. And I have to say that this what you experienced is nothing compared to what my country experienced in war, the only difference is that your tragedy is televised 24/7 so it seems more dramatic.
This is not war. Yet. But it seems that Bush will make it a war, and possibly it will be ww3.
You are so selfabsorbed, you don't notice any of the things happening around you. This is real tragedy what happened on tuesday, but when you look at last 10 yrs, it's not even in the top 50!!!
When you are interfeering with the situation in my country, your government says that my country generals shoul go to war tribunal becaouse of too much use of firepower in a last action in my war when we returned all our land from the agressor. We killed some 50-100 civilians in that attack, and we freed one third of my country. And now the same US government says that they will attack Afghanistan, and are justifying civilian victims?!? You make me sick with your double standards!
But offcourse you will get away with all the war crimes that you already done (there are so many of them that nobody can count them), and with the ones that you will probably do if you start attacking all muslim countries that don't agree with you, and just becouse you are big and powerfull America. You can gloat becouse you are so big, but you should also know that you are unjust!
Flame me for this, I don't care. First day I was with you (and I still pray for your victims), but every day that comes I see these stupid and sick views that you realy start to iritate me. You want ot do the same thing that they did, and you think that it's all good and just (like hiroshima I guess - those civilians meen nothing to you? - the biggest war crime ever, but so what - right?)
That's all.
 
Originally posted by Marko:
Well somebody shoul back up u2girl, so I'll do it.
First: you are all intolerate, and still usualy full of it with the moral and ethic statements when we are talking about some problems and issues in the world. But now something bad has hit you and you are angry and you seem to forgett all of your previous statements before... U2girl and myself experienced war before you. She had it for 10 days, and I had it right after her for 5 years. We were atacked by same country. And I have to say that this what you experienced is nothing compared to what my country experienced in war, the only difference is that your tragedy is televised 24/7 so it seems more dramatic.
This is not war. Yet. But it seems that Bush will make it a war, and possibly it will be ww3.
You are so selfabsorbed, you don't notice any of the things happening around you. This is real tragedy what happened on tuesday, but when you look at last 10 yrs, it's not even in the top 50!!!
When you are interfeering with the situation in my country, your government says that my country generals shoul go to war tribunal becaouse of too much use of firepower in a last action in my war when we returned all our land from the agressor. We killed some 50-100 civilians in that attack, and we freed one third of my country. And now the same US government says that they will attack Afghanistan, and are justifying civilian victims?!? You make me sick with your double standards!
But offcourse you will get away with all the war crimes that you already done (there are so many of them that nobody can count them), and with the ones that you will probably do if you start attacking all muslim countries that don't agree with you, and just becouse you are big and powerfull America. You can gloat becouse you are so big, but you should also know that you are unjust!
Flame me for this, I don't care. First day I was with you (and I still pray for your victims), but every day that comes I see these stupid and sick views that you realy start to iritate me. You want ot do the same thing that they did, and you think that it's all good and just (like hiroshima I guess - those civilians meen nothing to you? - the biggest war crime ever, but so what - right?)
That's all.

hey Marko!
thanks for the support. well i don't think i can say i experienced war, since i was 13 at the time. i wasn't totally aware of what was going on. i was just feeling shock.
and i certainly don't think i can compare my experiences with someone like you who knows what a war is a lot better, because it lasted longer and because it was much worse.

you need to look at the big picture. this is bigger than just US vs terrorists. it is a start of a war between a global coalition of countries vs worldwide terrorism.

and guys, calm down. i think everyone has been on the edge emotionally (Americans especially)-it's just your & their feelings talking.

ps: i think all war criminals (regardless which side they were on) and terrorists should be punished. and of course, always try to avoid civilian victims.
also, it is sad something like THIS had to happen to start an international alliance against terorrism.

------------------
"the beat of every U2 song is the pulse of every human heart"
- Carson Daly, introducing U2

the goal is soul

"be uncool, yes be awkward"



[This message has been edited by U2girl (edited 09-16-2001).]
 
Marko,
There is a lot you don't understand. I know your from Croatia, but there are many things you have never seen or experienced yourself. You should be thankfull that the NATO finally helped out in your region although angry that NATO did not help sooner. Many of your officers and soldiers privately recieved training and money from the USA and other NATO forces to help your country. How you could be critical of NATO is beyond me. Once NATO intervened in Bosnia and Kosovo, the Mass killing stopped. Before that the slaughter was on going without end.
I do not know the specific action you are talking about, but there is a difference between military or non-military forces murdering civilians for the sake of murdering civilians and the deaths that result from legit military targets. When defenseless civilians are rounded up and shot to death because of their ethnic race, this is genocide. Those responsible should be punished.
 
STING I know a lot more thatn you can imagine, and a lot more than you think you know. First: US backed by NATO enforced arms embargo for my country when the war started, and we had no weapons (it was silly - there were soliders with crosbows on the frontline - realy phatetic at the beggining), and our agressors were the 3rd biggest army in Europe!!! We recived help from Germany, Austria in arms and from Vatican in moral support. Just when they couldn't beat us, and when we got realy strong did US start to look at us a litle bit better (like always your contry always likes the strong ones). This action was caled "Oluja" and we had some help from US, but you never gave us arms or military support, just some inteligence. So don't teach me about what I know about my country and the war that I experienced. There are a lot of wars that are much worse, but this attack is not one of them! And about the same action about which I'm talking you could read in US newsweek a mont ago (front page). It deals about US role in it, and if that meens that you are responsible for alleged war crimes, or does it mean that there were no war crimes. So that's it. If you have any questions about what I said I would be happy to reply, and if you would like to do it another way than you can send me an e-mail: majurcic@inet.hr.

bye
 
I posted this articel from Guardian on the WAR thread but I'll do it here too. Please read it and think about it openminded:

Seumas Milne
Thursday September 13, 2001
The Guardian

Nearly two days after the horrific suicide attacks on civilian workers in New York and Washington, it has become painfully clear that most Americans simply don't get it. From the president to passersby on the streets, the message seems to be the same: this is an inexplicable assault on freedom and democracy, which must be answered with overwhelming force - just as soon as someone can construct a credible account of who was actually responsible.
Shock, rage and grief there has been aplenty. But any glimmer of recognition of why people might have been driven to carry out such atrocities, sacrificing their own lives in the process - or why the United States is hated with such bitterness, not only in Arab and Muslim countries, but across the developing world - seems almost entirely absent. Perhaps it is too much to hope that, as rescue workers struggle to pull firefighters from the rubble, any but a small minority might make the connection between what has been visited upon them and what their government has visited upon large parts of the world.

But make that connection they must, if such tragedies are not to be repeated, potentially with even more devastating consequences. US political leaders are doing their people no favours by reinforcing popular ignorance with self-referential rhetoric. And the echoing chorus of Tony Blair, whose determination to bind Britain ever closer to US foreign policy ratchets up the threat to our own cities, will only fuel anti-western sentiment. So will calls for the defence of "civilisation", with its overtones of Samuel Huntington's poisonous theories of post-cold war confrontation between the west and Islam, heightening perceptions of racism and hypocrisy.

As Mahatma Gandhi famously remarked when asked his opinion of western civilisation, it would be a good idea. Since George Bush's father inaugurated his new world order a decade ago, the US, supported by its British ally, bestrides the world like a colossus. Unconstrained by any superpower rival or system of global governance, the US giant has rewritten the global financial and trading system in its own interest; ripped up a string of treaties it finds inconvenient; sent troops to every corner of the globe; bombed Afghanistan, Sudan, Yugoslavia and Iraq without troubling the United Nations; maintained a string of murderous embargos against recalcitrant regimes; and recklessly thrown its weight behind Israel's 34-year illegal military occupation of the West Bank and Gaza as the Palestinian intifada rages.

If, as yesterday's Wall Street Journal insisted, the east coast carnage was the fruit of the Clinton administration's Munich-like appeasement of the Palestinians, the mind boggles as to what US Republicans imagine to be a Churchillian response.

It is this record of unabashed national egotism and arrogance that drives anti-Americanism among swaths of the world's population, for whom there is little democracy in the current distribution of global wealth and power. If it turns out that Tuesday's attacks were the work of Osama bin Laden's supporters, the sense that the Americans are once again reaping a dragons' teeth harvest they themselves sowed will be overwhelming.

It was the Americans, after all, who poured resources into the 1980s war against the Soviet-backed regime in Kabul, at a time when girls could go to school and women to work. Bin Laden and his mojahedin were armed and trained by the CIA and MI6, as Afghanistan was turned into a wasteland and its communist leader Najibullah left hanging from a Kabul lamp post with his genitals stuffed in his mouth.

But by then Bin Laden had turned against his American sponsors, while US-sponsored Pakistani intelligence had spawned the grotesque Taliban now protecting him. To punish its wayward Afghan offspring, the US subsequently forced through a sanctions regime which has helped push 4m to the brink of starvation, according to the latest UN figures, while Afghan refugees fan out across the world.

All this must doubtless seem remote to Americans desperately searching the debris of what is expected to be the largest-ever massacre on US soil - as must the killings of yet more Palestinians in the West Bank yesterday, or even the 2m estimated to have died in Congo's wars since the overthrow of the US-backed Mobutu regime. "What could some political thing have to do with blowing up office buildings during working hours?" one bewildered New Yorker asked yesterday.

Already, the Bush administration is assembling an international coalition for an Israeli-style war against terrorism, as if such counter-productive acts of outrage had an existence separate from the social conditions out of which they arise. But for every "terror network" that is rooted out, another will emerge - until the injustices and inequalities that produce them are addressed
 
Originally posted by U2girl:
was that so hard? you could have just said "yes" right away when i asked you.


OMG!
eek.gif


You have some nerve saying that, seeing as how you stubbornly said there's no way this is war, and then suddenly change your mind *Recalls a certain thread against a petition to send condolences that took 3 or 4 pages before you realized you were completely wrong*. And the fact that you actually admit that you're not all that knowledgable in politics only weakens your position in this entire thread.

You know, I half feel like going off on an extended rant on that, but it would just lead to another page of stubborn, narrow-minded posts from you before you finally say "oh, so that's what you were saying."
mad.gif


Sometimes it's better to keep uninformed opinions to yourself.
 
Originally posted by Alisaura:
Killing more people will not bring the dead back to life.


-----------
I Feel Numb...

BUT,
Dead people CANNOT commit terrorist acts...
 
Diemen,

Just let it go. Trust me, I speak from personal experience. You'll save yourself a lot of aggravation.
 
Originally posted by Diemen:
OMG!
eek.gif


You have some nerve saying that, seeing as how you stubbornly said there's no way this is war, and then suddenly change your mind *Recalls a certain thread against a petition to send condolences that took 3 or 4 pages before you realized you were completely wrong*. And the fact that you actually admit that you're not all that knowledgable in politics only weakens your position in this entire thread.

You know, I half feel like going off on an extended rant on that, but it would just lead to another page of stubborn, narrow-minded posts from you before you finally say "oh, so that's what you were saying."
mad.gif


Sometimes it's better to keep uninformed opinions to yourself.

i see, just because i happened to have a different point of view i am stubborn and have no say. (i just hope you aren't using that "you're not an American, so you have no right to talk about it" discrimination against me)
*yawn* oh please...
as far as i know, we are all equal in posting and expressing our thoughts. everyone can post and, of course, change their opinions. if that is not accepted, we are facing discrimination.

and i see no point in bringing up topics that were cleared up already (the condolences issue).

what exactly is my position? i never said i was an expert on politics anyway...

also, i don't see how that post means i "have the nerve". it's true-you could have just said "yes" the first time i asked you. or you could have pointed out the big picture (US being attacked as a symbol).

about that "uninformed opinions". i know there are people that know more about politics than me. but that doesn't mean i shouldn't be able to express my opinion on a certain matter.
or (this is a U2 forum) there are definitely people who know more about U2 than me. they own more bootlegs, read the books, have been fans longer, have seen more shows etc...why should that keep me from posting?

and to quote John Steinbeck (i think it was him): "Not changing your opinion is not a sign of intelligence".

we all live and learn.

------------------
"the beat of every U2 song is the pulse of every human heart"
- Carson Daly, introducing U2

the goal is soul

"be uncool, yes be awkward"



[This message has been edited by U2girl (edited 09-17-2001).]
 
No, I said that because you're starting to show a trend of announcing something that goes against what the majority of people think, and even though numerous individuals point out lots of reasons why your interpretation is wrong, you hold on to your view and attack it just as strongly 2 pages into a discussion as you did on the first post. Then, all of the sudden, you 'come to the conclusion' on your own that your original reason was wrong. Even though we'd been telling you the same thing that you'd 'come to the conclusion' of. If you'd just listen to what we were saying in the first place and actually taken it into consideration, rather than automatically argue against it because it's an opposing viewpoint - you would've saved a lot of frustration and space.

[This message has been edited by Diemen (edited 09-17-2001).]
 
Originally posted by Diemen:
No, I said that because you're starting to show a trend of announcing something that goes against what the majority of people think, and even though numerous individuals point out lots of reasons why your interpretation is wrong, you hold on to your view and attack it just as strongly 2 pages into a discussion as you did on the first post. Then, all of the sudden, you 'come to the conclusion' on your own that your original reason was wrong. Even though we'd been telling you the same thing that you'd 'come to the conclusion' of. If you'd just listen to what we were saying in the first place and actually taken it into consideration, rather than automatically argue against it because it's an opposing viewpoint - you would've saved a lot of frustration and space.

[This message has been edited by Diemen (edited 09-17-2001).]

i wasn't going to reply to this, but anyway...
a trend? no, though there were several occasions when i disagreed with the majoritiy.

it is not "all of a sudden", it is done after a lot of thinking about the thread(s) in question. i admit that a lot of posts disagreeing with me helps to start the thinking, but in the end i have to reach the conclusion. on my own.

i can't explain to you why i don't change my opinion sooner. it's just the way it happens. i guess i'm stubborn.

but you don't have to rub it in.
frown.gif




------------------
"the beat of every U2 song is the pulse of every human heart"
- Carson Daly, introducing U2

the goal is soul

"be uncool, yes be awkward"
 
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