A process of watering down?

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financeguy

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On hiatus after the extended ZooTV tour, Bono promised great things to come, telling the media that the Edge had "fallen back in love with his guitar".

Fans eagerly awaited the next move. U2 offered us a mouth watering taster in the summer of 1995 - the single Hold Me Thrill Me Kiss Me Kill Me. Though it wore its T-Rex influences a little obviously, it was a fine Bolanesque pastiche, and coupled with suitably gender-bending lyrics and arguably the most thought provoking video they have ever released, HMTMKMKM was more than enough to quell any heretical thoughts that U2 were about to call it a day.

Yet, as it turned out, those looking to HMTMKMKM for pointers as to the future direction of U2 would have been led astray.

Their next release was an extra-curricular activity - The Original Soundtracks LP recorded with Brian Eno and others, an ambient album which holds up pretty well nigh on a decade later, although perhaps not quite a classic of its genre.

Most were surprised by what came next - rather than attempting to re-invent rock and roll, U2 ventured into the waters of dance beats and the club scene. 1997's Pop was an album which divided, and still divides, the fanbase and critics alike.

In one interview, manager Paul McGuiness even ventured that U2 had plenty to offer to the blissed out 'E' generation. For some rock fans, including more than a few U2 followers, such comments smacked of a band a little too anxious to jump onto passing bandwagons. Truth be told, by 1997, dance music was already becoming a trifle jaded.

Nevertheless, Pop offered a number of high points, with Please and Mofo really coming into their own in a live setting. The under-rated Last Night on Earth was let down by an arty video that didn't quite achieve what it set out to do.

Yet for this fan, Pop is to some extent, an album which tried to be all things to all people. Yes, the passion is still there - in Bono's vocal on Please and Gone and in the lyrics throughout, but it is not a criticism of U2 to suggest that any band would struggle with reconciling rock and roll with the different ethic of dance music.

Pop was a noble attempt, which almost, but didn't quite fully come off, but it would be churlish not to acknowledge their spirit of adventure and creativity.And yet for many, including some devoted fans, there is the lingering sense that U2 were trying to be something that they were not.

But is it nothing more than a foolish nostalgia for the relatively recent past that induces me to think that nothing that they will ever do will surpass the creative highpoint of the 1991 - 1995 period?

Is it the delusion of a jaded old timer that causes me to view the much maligned and misunderstood Last Night on Earth as the last truly great U2 single?

And is it the blinkers of that delusion that makes me perceive the post-1997 era U2 as a watered down version of a once truly great band?
 
well written, i needed a thesauras for a few of those words.

I say, if an album of any kind (rock or dance) comes from U2, then U2 aren't changing.....it's already in them.....dance or rock or whatever...they are just tapping into different parts of their souls.

While 1991 - 1995 might have been an "obvious" creative high point, I submit that most other periods of the U2 timeline have been just as creative, but perhaps not as obvious.
 
A well though out and written post my friend.

I would say from 91-97, I don't overly agree with your opinion on Pop, I think it's 'under produced' quality that the band hate so much now actually gives it something a lot of u2 records don't have now-a-days, and that's a rawness. Even in amoungst the electronica moments, the sound is raw and electric. I feel now a days the sound is far too polished, over produced.

I agree that I feel u2 have watered down what they are now, the ambition seems purely on filling stadiums by producing records that sound as if they could have made them in their sleep. Songs like COBL, Miracle Drug, SYCMIOYO sound as if we've heard it all before, and not in a good way. The over earnest vocals, the vintage chimming guitar have all returned, but don't nearly sound as natural as they did in their '80's hay day.

I was honestly excited by the songs on the Million Dollar Hotel soundtrack (first post Pop material), the solo Bono stuff and of course Stateless and TGBHF. They had a very cool, cold, and dark style to them that I'd never heard from u2 before and I honestly expected ATYCLB to follow on from that, alas, it turned out to be a watered down pop album, followed by the better, but still watered down HTDAAB.

To be fair there is some flashes of creativety showing through, both Love and Peace Or Else and Fast Cars are very promising of what u2 could do in the future.

I don't question they could do another overly creative record like Zooropa say. The question I have does u2 have the balls at this stage in their career to 'fuck up the mainstream' again? I very much doubt it, they got real scared that they lost a lot of their fan base and got some bad reviews with Pop.

They're too well planned out for all that now, and it all seems too forced for me. I think we're in for a future watered down u2 until MTV and mainstream radio have lost their intrest. Only until u2 are prepared to give up the mainstream, will their creativetly return.
 
Lo-Fi said:
A well though out and written post my friend.
.........

I was honestly excited by the songs on the Million Dollar Hotel soundtrack (first post Pop material), the solo Bono stuff and of course Stateless and TGBHF.

Thanks! :up:

I always liked The Ground Beneath Her Feet. It is one of my favourite songs on ATYCLB. I have to admit I have never heard the rest of the Million Dollar Hotel stuff. Will have to have a listen to it.
 
Lo-Fi said:

Songs like COBL, Miracle Drug, SYCMIOYO sound as if we've heard it all before, and not in a good way. The over earnest vocals, the vintage chimming guitar have all returned, but don't nearly sound as natural as they did in their '80's hay day.


1983-1988 ... :applaud: :love: :drool: :bow: :heart: :kiss: :dancing:
 
My opening post was not intended to do down the 1980's U2, it specifically concentrates on the post Zooropa era. I personally view '91-'95 as the creative highpoint because of:

(1) Three albums in the space of 3 1/2 years (if you count Passengers). That's almost an album a year, which is twice as productive compared with '97 to '04 (three albums in the space of over 7 years).

(2) All the musical experimentation of that era

(3) The theatrics of ZooTV

But yeah, '83-'88 was great too.

Joshua Tree is probably my favourite album.
 
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financeguy said:


Is it the delusion of a jaded old timer that causes me to view the much maligned and misunderstood Last Night on Earth as the last truly great U2 single?

And is it the blinkers of that delusion that makes me perceive the post-1997 era U2 as a watered down version of a once truly great band?

Funny because while I love Pop I still feel that Last Night on Earth is so overrated on this forum. I would go so far as to say that LNOE is one of their weakest singles. Oh well....
 
I'll reserve my judgement on whether U2 is in the process of watering down until after their next album. If it arrives in the shops sometime in 2006, and if it displays some sort of new direction for the band, then I will be happy. If not, I'll probably still enjoy it, but I will probably come to the conclusion that U2 is turning into The Who circa 1989.
 
starvinmarvin said:
I'll reserve my judgement on whether U2 is in the process of watering down until after their next album. If it arrives in the shops sometime in 2006, and if it displays some sort of new direction for the band, then I will be happy. If not, I'll probably still enjoy it, but I will probably come to the conclusion that U2 is turning into The Who circa 1989.

What if it arrives in 2008 and displays some sort of new direction for the band? :shrug:
 
roy said:


What if it arrives in 2008 and displays some sort of new direction for the band? :shrug:

Hmmm...I guess I'll still be happy....but obviously I would prefer if it came next year, as would most everyone else.

I think that the best thing U2 could do is pull another Zooropa and put an album out while they're still touring behind HTDAAB. I think a lot of U2 fans feel a bit put off by the fcat that the band was hinting at putting out a new album in mid 2002, but didn't deliver until late 2004. They know that they need to counter the perception that U2 is becoming a Stones-like touring act, where albums are less important than touring. This time the band can't buy time by putting out another Best Of album, so it is essential that they release new music next year in order to keep the band's profile up. Part of the "watering down" process spoken of earlier is the lack of productivity - it is just as harmful to the band as playing it safe musically. Not that I have a problem with the last 2 albums - they were kind of refreshing after the Pop debacle - but the time is right for the band to reinvent themselves once again.
 
I don't think they'll ever surpass their work 1987-1993 (and I'm fine with that)...they were in a place creatively, just on top of the world, that I don't think can be recreated.

Very well written post, but it's still not something we could really come to a consensus on, because many people think their last 2 albums have been the highlights of their career.
 
VertigoGal said:
I don't think they'll ever surpass their work 1987-1993 (and I'm fine with that)...they were in a place creatively, just on top of the world, that I don't think can be recreated.

I agree. :up:


And financeguy, impressive write-up there.. most of which I agree with! (except for Pop which I thought was almost another peak for them)
 
Lo-Fi said:
A well though out and written post my friend.

I would say from 91-97, I don't overly agree with your opinion on Pop, I think it's 'under produced' quality that the band hate so much now actually gives it something a lot of u2 records don't have now-a-days, and that's a rawness. Even in amoungst the electronica moments, the sound is raw and electric. I feel now a days the sound is far too polished, over produced.

I agree that I feel u2 have watered down what they are now, the ambition seems purely on filling stadiums by producing records that sound as if they could have made them in their sleep. Songs like COBL, Miracle Drug, SYCMIOYO sound as if we've heard it all before, and not in a good way. The over earnest vocals, the vintage chimming guitar have all returned, but don't nearly sound as natural as they did in their '80's hay day.



Everything in this post is spot on. The 3 songs mentioned off the last album are all over produced and unoriginal as anything U2 have ever done. I love the 80's stuff but to return to that sound in this stage of their careers was just a bad move. Fuckin' Beautiful Day was the worst thing that happened to U2, cos that was the 1 song and 1 moment that made them go into reverse and start making tribute 80's albums which they have done since 2000. That bloody coke riff has got a lot to answer for!:wink:
 
Lo-Fi said:
A well though out and written post my friend.

I would say from 91-97, I don't overly agree with your opinion on Pop, I think it's 'under produced' quality that the band hate so much now actually gives it something a lot of u2 records don't have now-a-days, and that's a rawness. Even in amoungst the electronica moments, the sound is raw and electric. I feel now a days the sound is far too polished, over produced.

I agree that I feel u2 have watered down what they are now, the ambition seems purely on filling stadiums by producing records that sound as if they could have made them in their sleep. Songs like COBL, Miracle Drug, SYCMIOYO sound as if we've heard it all before, and not in a good way. The over earnest vocals, the vintage chimming guitar have all returned, but don't nearly sound as natural as they did in their '80's hay day.

Wow, how did I miss this post? :scratch:

Anyway, as rj said... every word of that post is spot on!!! :up:
 
Everytime I think that 00's U2 isn't able to compare to U2 of old they put out a song like Ground Beneath her Feet, Electrical Storm, Stateless, Fast Cars. And then I just am confused. They still have it in them, yet the newer albums (while good) don't seem to showcase that.
 
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